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View Poll Results: Women at the drum
Yes. I support women who sing at the drum 107 47.14%
No. I do not support women who sing at the drum 120 52.86%
Voters: 227. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-01-2004, 12:22 AM   #41
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moon times

Nashkay.. my friend, he says he has a sure fire way wether or not to tell wether or not someone is true mide or from a corrupt lodge - bring a woman on her moon to that mide guys sweat and see if he lets her in or not.

I don't know of a single true midewin elder that follows the moon time rule. I do, however, know of a lot of professed mide members who are not to be trusted that do enforsse this rule. Theres a good reason why those mide elders do what they do, but it gets a little deep for here. Come over to my house with a little tobacco and I will tell you why if you want to know. ;)

Aniishaa, women on the drum - it depends on the drum. In most of NW Ontario it is considered permissible or good for a woman to sit on a ocntemporary drum. Its the big gaweenski for a traditional drum. Come to think of it, we don't even have a lot of women that stand behind us either - most of them are out there in thier jingle dresses workin their part. I think that's really the best way with out oldest drums, ingiw kwede'igang. However, you will see quite a few older women come out and smoke the drums pipe and get things prepped before we start singing. That there, my friends, is the really good old time stuff. This is the same way it is best to have women pick medicines that are considered female - it just makes sense.

For the most part, very few women ever think of going against this sort of thing because it is considered better to be a jingle dress dancer than a singer or to stand behind the drum.

Maybe times are changing, but I for one refuse to die a slow contemporary death at the hands of cultural disfigurement and inevitability.

Mii awe.
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Old 08-03-2004, 04:44 PM   #42
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nangookaa
I vote yes..

I've seen a few all women drum groups playing together on a large drum. It's great and I don't see any problems with it.
:D
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Nangook:

I would love to see a "women's drum group playing together on a large drum!"

Do you have pictures?
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:23 PM   #43
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http://groups.msn.com/SweetGrassRoad

all womens drum group

and think mankillas got their own website too
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Old 08-11-2004, 06:01 PM   #44
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Depends on the circumstances here.
As the tradition was made several hundred years ago, when our soveriegn nation was having the will and force of both the English and French nations at a time period prior to the French and Indian wars (Pre 1710), where as the French and English extinguished the rights of our nations men to drum at all, also a factor was the blackrobes in their christian teachings forbidding the drumming at the villages within the missions. In so doing, and trying to imply these newfound laws upon our rights, all the women in the village had amongs themselves, with the warriors present, decided to take the drum back into the center of the mission village, and all the woman in the village, sat and played at the drum. When the Blackrobes, the govenors and the Representatives within the French/Catholic societies attempted to stop this drumming again, all the warriors and men began shaking the turtle shell rattles and war cries schreeched from within the treelines, on the outskirts of the mission village. The Blackrobes/French/English captive commanders decided, In there best interests, to leave the woman as is, and allowed again the drumming at the village, by the woman only.
When an all male drum was being beaten, by all Abenaki men, the significance of that meaning, was a settlement by encroaching white society was about to be attached, and destroyed. The Men at times, warned the encroaching settlers, by beating the drums for a day/night prior to such an attack, so they may peacefully or quietly vacate the area.
An all male Abenaki Drum at a social event such as a powwow is Just not appropriate, so The women, and men mix on the Powwow drum, but sing only Eastern, or wabanaki songs. We show respect to that time period, and revere our women for doing such.
This last powwow at Saco River, had an Abenaki mixed drum as the Host, Prior to the Grand Entry (within Abenaki Territory) The Emcee announced that there would be no woman allowed on the drums in his Arbour!! A council was called, and because due to his spiritual teachers beliefs from Oregon??? was why he made this decision. Once the Abenaki explained the reasons why we mixed our Abenaki Drums in our Territories, the decision was reversed, and the Woman did enter the arbour, and drum as we always have.
We would never attempt to step on anothers tradional beliefs out of disrespect, nor would the women on the Abenaki Drums ever attempt to copy Northern or Southern style Drumming.
Lets Hope, that an all Male Abenaki drum never be reformed again, for any reasons!!!

Just my 2 beads on the subject
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Old 08-12-2004, 10:08 AM   #45
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I've never heard a good sounding all women's drum group, there are a few drum groups who have a few women singers and they sound alright. Just because your tribe believes something doesn't mean we all do. I believe women have their place and men have theirs. Powwows are social events. There's nothing ceremonial about our powwows around here. People try to make them out like that and be the ultimate indian all traditional but there is a time and a place for that and powwows aren't that place. But I wouldn't let my daughter or woman drum.
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Old 08-13-2004, 01:00 AM   #46
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I guess Powwows in some area's are becomin more secular then sacred. More of a show for the white people then anything...

Im glad its not happening in my area.
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Old 08-13-2004, 01:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaggin_NDN
I don't support or disagree with women who sing at the drum. I am left to let the woman or women singers to leave that decision for themselves. However when women decide to come and sing at my drum I ask them to not hit the drum. The only thing i tell women is think about it before you start to sing on a drum.

The reason i prefer women not to sing with my drum is that the drum represents the Heartbeat of Mother Earth, and Mother Earth is also the representative for women, and mothers. The drumsticks used to sound the drum represent the manhood of a male. And when the drum is sounded it represents the heartbeats of both the male and female in performing consumation (sex). So when a lady sounds or hits the drum it literally represents homosexuallity.

For those women singers reading this, keep doing what you do if you feel it is appropriate and that what you do is a good thing out of intention. Don't be discouraged by believing in yourself.

Sing on any drum you are permitted but none of mine.
That has got to be the most rediculous thing I have ever heard....women hit the drum representing homosexuality. However, that is fine, though I think some of the husbands of the ladies who sit at drums would disagree with you!!! Somewhere along the way I was taught that we even honor homosexuals because of the insight they bring.
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:04 PM   #48
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Women Drum Groups

here's another women's drum group:

www.motherearthbeat.net
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:18 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleclan22
I have to disagree with you on this one Ojisweety. Although I totally agree with most of your posts this one I have a different opinion.

The big drum isnt traditionally Anishinabe, Im sure most of you know this. Anyways the drum was shared with teh Anishinabe by the Sioux (pardon my choice of words). The Anishinaabe used it the way they saw fit, they customized it to be Anishinaabe by adding the drum stand with four posts etc, etc, etc,

My point being if we really want to be traditional we shoudl look at ourselves in a holistic point of view. Look at the materials we use today look at the songs that the tribes have shared with eachother. Our culture is one of sharing and evolving, this is just merely a part of the road we walk.
I agree with you totally too! I was taught that when the big drum was shared with those in the east/north east, that we (eastern woodlands ppl) adopted the drum, but applied our own teachings/beliefs...i.e. women could drum. But again, we are talking about different locations/cultures/belief systems. So many of the ceremonies, celebrations and doin's have been shared and added to other's ceremonies,celebrations and doin's....I'm just thankful we CAN do...heck, in my state we couldn't even own land until the mid-60's!!
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Old 08-24-2004, 04:57 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mebdrum1
here's another women's drum group:

www.motherearthbeat.net
__

mebdrum:

Geez, am I really seeing this or are my eyes foolin' me?

On this site is MEB Galleries: 2000: Picture.

Are the singers of this women's drum really learning their songs by reading them? How do you read Indian powwow music?
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:33 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
Gawiin. :NoNo

Our Ojibway tradition is to sing behind the men, not at the drum. Woodland Anishnabe Ikwe do not sit around the drum and sing as the men do. There is a story, a teaching of very old that we have within our nation regarding this.
I don't want to put it here though.
I understand there are tribes who do this, and that is fine and can respect that. I am only talking for my tribe. However even within my tribe there are females who do this. To me we have our traditions that was given to us since the Creator put us here on his earth. That drum story is an original teaching and to me, is not to be changed. Why change an original teaching that was given to us by the Creator? We have to keep those traditions alive and well. :)
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Old 08-25-2004, 10:25 AM   #52
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Thumbs up reading

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
__

mebdrum:

Geez, am I really seeing this or are my eyes foolin' me?

On this site is MEB Galleries: 2000: Picture.

Are the singers of this women's drum really learning their songs by reading them? How do you read Indian powwow music?
hey Whome,

Always looking for _something_ to go after huh? hehe, that's ok, it's healthy.

hey you don't read "indian pow wow music"...did it say anything about it being pow wow music? No, just a new song, what it didn't say was it was just written and in english no less (oooohhhhNOOOO--not english!!!). But, guess since it was after hours at a pow wow, that could be figured...so I forgive you!

I have seen mens drums, though, that have the hey's and whays written down, but it all looks the same to me. So be sure to point that out too them ok?

Anyway, thanks for visiting the site!
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Old 08-25-2004, 11:59 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mebdrum1
hey Whome, . . . I have seen mens drums, though, that have the hey's and whays written down, but it all looks the same to me. So be sure to point that out too them ok?
__

mebdrum,

Fair enough!

I am pointing out that "Mebdrum1 has seen men's drums that have their hey's and whays written down."

I also have to say this is not a norm when learning a new song . . . by most singers in most drum groups. (at least they won't admit to it if the do) *L
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Old 08-26-2004, 09:12 PM   #54
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Ya Know...

Ya know who, maybe they would let you sing lead for them....I wrote a song for you to use....It is called the Friendship song. It came to me at a pan traditional native american gathering at the pan am games, while I was eating pan cakes, made by a pan Indian and she was using a pan too.

Hi HOW are you,
HI HOW are you,
hey ya hey ya hey
way a way....
O baby....O baby

If you record this I want credit for writing it..
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Old 08-31-2004, 07:40 PM   #55
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Women do alot for their tribes. Back in the day men should have let the women carry guns because they were massacred along with their children by hillbillies and foriegners. You are reliving the past by not letting native women join in the good fight.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:35 PM   #56
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Talking Huh??

I thought we were talking about singing?? Who do women want to fight?? I think hoo could use a whopping if you are looking for someone, I mean belittling women, just because they have to write the songs down to remember them. Com'on lots of people learn songs by reading them. WElllll okay, not lots of singers, but I bet some southern singers do. :rofl2:
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:45 PM   #57
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Let native women sing, they're just as good at singing, dancing, and fighting then the men are.(put it that way stopsno time)
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Old 09-01-2004, 12:06 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve StopsOnTime
Ya know who, maybe they would let you sing lead for them....I wrote a song for you to use....It is called the Friendship song. It came to me at a pan traditional native american gathering at the pan am games, while I was eating pan cakes, made by a pan Indian and she was using a pan too.

Hi HOW are you,
HI HOW are you,
hey ya hey ya hey
way a way....
O baby....O baby

If you record this I want credit for writing it..
You can't fool me Stevie. I know you didn't write this one, cuz you left out the way ya hey ya nay after oooo baby....oooo baby.

Good try.
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:00 PM   #59
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Way to go...

Way to go Kiwehnzii, that was a trick song with a tricky ending. Now you go and give the ending away. Now everyone will be able to stop on time. No wonder you are the world champion you picked that right out. Jibby asked me to write a song in honor of you winning the world championship. I will have to sweat on this one, since it is such an auspicious occasion...
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK tribes
Let native women sing, they're just as good at singing, dancing, and fighting then the men are.(put it that way stopsno time)
I don't know what the HK man make you do, but you can come up to the plains and we will let you sing. Standing right behind the drum with the rest of the women.

Why is it that women always want to do men things? The creator in his infinte wisdom gave us different roles. You don't see Steve trying to take your role. I don't be cooking or cleaning or washing clothes? Why do you want to do mine?? Com'on hoo tell her about Men's and women's roles... historian, help me out here...
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