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Old 10-23-2003, 11:19 AM   #1
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Question

OK As I stated in the beaded vs silver crown thread, I was taught growing up that cloth dancers did not wear crowns. Only buckskin dancers wore them. Unless you were a princess and then you could wear them with your cloth dress. Today lots of cloth dancers are wearing them. Although alot of them I have noticed are buckskin dancers who have the beadwork, so they wear it all with their cloth dress. Were any of you taught this way? What are your feelings on cloth dancers wearing crowns? Not trying to cause any controversy, just stating what I was taught.

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Old 10-23-2003, 11:34 AM   #2
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________

You're right ogapah,

The wearing of crowns by cloth dancers is new.

But things evolve.

There was a time when no Indian women wore crowns. None.

Even the ceremonial princess' of the Kiowa and Pawnee did not wear crowns a long time ago.

Crowns did appear on princess' shortly after the first Miss Indian America title was given.

From then on princess' wore a variety of crowns: Beaded, Silver, Copper, woven textiles etc.

The buckskin dancers picked it up next.

Then for a brief period, shawl dancers wore them.

Now cloth dancers are wearing them.

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Old 10-23-2003, 05:56 PM   #3
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theese 2 little girls there twins and cloth dancers and they both wear crowns......personally i dont think they should be wearing em
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:51 AM   #4
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I am with you on that . Mom says we wear them , I have been named Tn Vets Veteran Queen I dont like the idea of wearing one but hey what ya gonna do .
I think today more an more are just wearing them . Time will tell.
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:22 AM   #5
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Back in the day, Kiowa princess' wore either headbands or crowns, from my understanding. I recieved the right to wear a crown when I became a pow-wow princess. But I also danced cloth and still do to this day. I never heard of such a thing that cloth dancers aren't supposed to wear them. I always did and so did my aunt back in the 1950's and 1960's. I seen alot of old pics of cloth dancers in crowns.
When I reach my mid-30's I'll most likely start wearing a headband. Some older women I think should do the same. JMO...
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Old 10-24-2003, 08:06 AM   #6
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i really don't know much about the crown issue, other than, i knew if you were a tribal representative(princess) and awarded a crown then from then on you could wear a crown, otherwise.....


but i know lots of moms who make crowns for their little girls to wear, who have never represented, so i guess like everything else in pow wow land, things change
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Old 10-24-2003, 08:11 PM   #7
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Hi. Well, i dance southern, and well, i have worn a crown since i held my first title when i was like 12. I have never been with out a crown since then when i dance. Sometimes i'll go a session or two with out it cause its hot. But my auntie and my dad said that i could wear a crown cause i had the right as a former princess. Maybe thats my old school way of thought but thats how i'll teach my babies...If anna ever has them. but thats besides the point. And thats my two cents
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Old 11-10-2003, 01:48 PM   #8
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Sorry girls, beaded crowns have been around for a LOOOONG time but not the silver ones. Like everyone says...things are changing. In the early 50's, lotsa women wore sequin crowns with cloth and buckskin dresses. My mom made some beautiful ones for my sisters.
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:16 AM   #9
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My Gramma told me that since i had been a princess, i was entitled to wear a crown, but i really hated wearing them, so I opted for wearing really wild colors in my hair that matched my outfits.
Now that I really do have wild hair, as some of you who have seen me can attest, If i ever start dancing again, i probobaly will still avoid a crown.
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Old 11-15-2003, 03:55 AM   #10
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Hey all..... yeah, beaded crowns have been around since at least the 1920s, and they were invented by Maggie Jones Smoky and Anna Jones Berry (both Kiowas). Basically, these two were really famous beadworkers, and were commissioned by alot of people to make beaded medallions for various things - pins, neckties, to go on shoes and dresses, etc. They got the idea to create crowns from those medallions. The attached pic is of Lois Smoky (later Lois Kaulaity after marriage). Lois was Maggie's daughter and this picture was taken between 1928 and 1931. Real simple crown - just kinda a combo between a headband and a medallion. Wonder what those ladies would say about some of these over-the-top crowns today?

Anyway, like so many things, like the Jingle Dress, these things have specific origings that started with specific people. Too often we lose sight of that history and these things just become a "style" and everyone just wears stuff without thinking about it cause everyone else does. Not trying to get on anyone's case, just a little info to add some perspective to this discussion.

(Now to see if I attached this file right!)
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Old 11-15-2003, 11:10 AM   #11
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Thanks for the input everyone. Str8Dancer49, great history on the crown.
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Old 11-16-2003, 04:49 PM   #12
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I am a northern traditional cloth dancer. I have only seen princesses with beaded crowns here in the midwest. Granted, I have only been to the pow-wows in the minnesota/wisconsin area. I was taught that crowns were only wore by representatives. One of my closest friend was crowned a few years back and was told she couldn't wear her crown after a year.
The history on how crowns were started is very interesting...
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Old 11-17-2003, 12:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by morningstar
I am a northern traditional cloth dancer. I have only seen princesses with beaded crowns here in the midwest. Granted, I have only been to the pow-wows in the minnesota/wisconsin area. I was taught that crowns were only wore by representatives. One of my closest friend was crowned a few years back and was told she couldn't wear her crown after a year.
The history on how crowns were started is very interesting...
I think what your friend should understand is...if the crown was given to her to wear as a representative...(which is usually for one year) but the next year another representative was chosen then,...your friend should NOT wear the SAME crown because she would no longer be a representative. That don't mean she can't wear one ....just not the same one.
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Old 11-20-2003, 01:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by notsocheese
Back in the day, Kiowa princess' wore either headbands or crowns, from my understanding. I recieved the right to wear a crown when I became a pow-wow princess. But I also danced cloth and still do to this day. I never heard of such a thing that cloth dancers aren't supposed to wear them. I always did and so did my aunt back in the 1950's and 1960's. I seen alot of old pics of cloth dancers in crowns.
When I reach my mid-30's I'll most likely start wearing a headband. Some older women I think should do the same. JMO...


I have just begun to dance southern buckskin and danced southern cloth since I was 12. I agree with your last comment about older women wearing crowns. I have wondered about that for some time, as I am over 35 (old woman now) and I have seen some older women wearing crowns who dance southern cloth/buckskin. I was told by my mother and aunts that older women should not wear crowns but a headband is okay, and the crowns should be worn by younger women who were princesses and given the right to wear them, etc...
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Old 12-08-2003, 04:05 PM   #15
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I made a crown for my little girl to wear and I really like it.
She's almost 2 and has never been a princess for any committee, but when she wears her crown, she holds her head a little higher.

This is just my two cents on this subject, but I dance at mostly contemporary pow-wows and am most of the time a contest dancer. As a contest dancer, you have to stay with the times.
Sorry,but it's a fact. My daughter loves to dance and I'll continue to make her the best I can to keep her on the cutting edge.
When she gets older, she can change her style to reflect who she is, wearing a crwon or not.

But mostly I just made it because she looks so damn cute in it!
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Old 12-09-2003, 02:46 PM   #16
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Old 12-11-2003, 01:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teh Hunga
From a man's point of view, I see some crowns that look like they were made for the Pope...Indian style. Some of them look just plain ridiculous but I guess the girls/women think they look keen!! As for older women wearing crowns??? No comment!! I like life. BUH!!



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Old 12-12-2003, 05:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by FancyStar
I made a crown for my little girl to wear and I really like it.
She's almost 2 and has never been a princess for any committee, but when she wears her crown, she holds her head a little higher.

This is just my two cents on this subject, but I dance at mostly contemporary pow-wows and am most of the time a contest dancer. As a contest dancer, you have to stay with the times.
Sorry,but it's a fact. My daughter loves to dance and I'll continue to make her the best I can to keep her on the cutting edge.
When she gets older, she can change her style to reflect who she is, wearing a crwon or not.

But mostly I just made it because she looks so damn cute in it!

You have a point too, you have to stay with what is in style and all. Almost all southern cloth dancers have crowns and there are some beautiful ones out there. Alot of the beadwork now is added with rhinestone trimming, etc...which makes the outfit stand out.
I think my point was that I don't really think it looks right for an older woman over 40 or so to wear a crown, but that is just one point of view in the whole arena. :D
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Old 12-12-2003, 05:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teh Hunga
From a man's point of view, I see some crowns that look like they were made for the Pope...Indian style. Some of them look just plain ridiculous but I guess the girls/women think they look keen!! As for older women wearing crowns??? No comment!! I like life. BUH!!
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Old 12-19-2003, 12:02 AM   #20
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buh

Quote:
Originally posted by Teh Hunga
From a man's point of view, I see some crowns that look like they were made for the Pope...Indian style. Some of them look just plain ridiculous but I guess the girls/women think they look keen!! As for older women wearing crowns??? No comment!! I like life. BUH!!

lmao
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