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Old 07-09-2003, 02:35 PM   #1
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Talking Girls Southern Cloth For Sale

Hello, I have a southern girls cloth outfit for sale. Brand new never been worn. Colors are red, golden yellow, and green. Very nice has detailed applique along skirt, shawl and back piece.
Will fit a skinny gilr of 6-8 years of age.
Pieces include, shirt shirt, shawl, and back drag. Made by Sharon Roberts, Micheal Roberts(yes, the fancy dancer) mom.

Asking $350.


There are pictures of in the gallery by pettus.

Must SALE!!


Let me know!
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Old 07-16-2003, 07:11 PM   #2
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I may seem radical, but don't you have to be a certain tribe to be wearing ribbonwork applique? My goodness, what is the pow wow world coming to when you can buy someone's tribal regalia on the net? LOL but seriously, what tribe will just sell thier rights to a regalia on the pow wows.com cloth board? It's a sad day in oklahoma.
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Old 07-17-2003, 09:34 AM   #3
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so you saying that eveyrobody that wears a jingle dress went through the proper tribal procedures to wear them

so eveyrbody that wears a southern buckshkin dress is kiowa
since the dress origin is kiowa

its a sad day in pow wow country
i'm not going to go into what is tribally appropriate

there is a pow wow contest outfit for sale not a tribal outfit contest outfit for sale, contest
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Old 07-17-2003, 12:01 PM   #4
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i think that its gettin a little hot in here
ok if you wear a dress that is not of your tribe i think that is fine. i do, but i also give credit to the western origin of my dress, and know the history behind lumbee patchwork and cherokee tear dress (as i am descended from both tribes). so as long as you show respect i think itll be ok.

anyway i couldnt find this in the gallery perhaps you could post a link.
 
Old 07-17-2003, 12:03 PM   #5
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Re: Girls Southern Cloth For Sale

Quote:
Originally posted by FancyStar
Colors are red, golden yellow, and green.

a stop light!! i love it! (j/k)
 
Old 07-17-2003, 03:16 PM   #6
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okay if you look under crafts ribbonwork it says
so cloth outfit

it's posted under my name pettus

sorry for confusion
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Old 07-17-2003, 06:56 PM   #7
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So, then, you are saying that is not a tribal ribbonwork applique dress and just because you classify it as a contest dress, anyone can wear it?
I totally disagree. That has Otoe-Missouri designs, the leaves, and also the way it comes down the front. The Great Lakes tribes, as well as Oklahoma tribes(Sac&Fox, Iowa, Ponca, Otoe, Pawnee) wear this style of dress.
Oh, and yes, I also believe that those who wear a jingle dress SHOULD have received it in the proper ceremony. It's only respect to the tribe and the original dancers of that medicine dress.
Also, Kiowas are not the only tribe that wears buckskin dresses. All Tribes wore them before the trade cloth became available. The way you can tell the difference is the style it is made in, and the colors and designs upon it.
I am from Oklahoma, brought into the arena at WhiteEagle, and have respect for my own tribal clothes. I do not wear anyone elses clothes and I guess I am too old fashioned for this board because I find it offensive to see this attitude towards this tribal dress.
But, as they say, such is life and this will continue to be done because other tribes will admire a style of dress and decide they want to wear it so they can buy it on the net and put it on.
But be conscious of the fact that there are still some traditional women, such as my aunties, that will walk up to you at a pow wow and ask you what tribe you are and how you came about wearing those clothes, who gave them to you and at what arena. And if you don't answer properly, they will ask you to take them off because you are disrespecting thier tribe and it's traditional regalia.
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Old 07-17-2003, 07:39 PM   #8
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Thumbs up

right on RWGIRL!

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Old 07-18-2003, 09:06 AM   #9
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good post rwgirl...tellin it like it should be.:)
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Old 07-19-2003, 01:17 AM   #10
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Holy heck..... I just wanted to check out the prices for my little sister.....I'll come back when it aint so, uh, somehow in here........

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Old 07-19-2003, 09:37 PM   #11
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Be who you are, Know where you come from and do what you feel you got to do. More power to you.

The fact remains, I have a southern cloth outfit for sale.

If anyone is interested, pm me for more info.

Peace on the way!
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Old 07-20-2003, 10:59 PM   #12
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Old 07-22-2003, 07:55 AM   #13
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what if

the original seamstress of this dress gave fancystar the right to sell it for her? does that make a difference?
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Old 07-24-2003, 03:09 PM   #14
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It's not really the seller, but the fact that it can be bought without properly having the rights to wear it. Mrs. Roberts is a nice person and does nice work, no disrespect to her. I understand she is choctaw/chickasaw to someone must have dressed her for her to wear ponca and otoe clothes. but does this give the right to sell a regalia of a certain tribe. Do the Cherokee get offended if someone, who is not their tribe, wear their dress or can buy it anywhere and put it on and therefore represent cherokee ancestry?
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Old 07-25-2003, 08:46 AM   #15
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a lot of women claim cherokee ancestry and make or buy the tear dress what can we do??? take a dress away from them??

what about those of us who make clothes and then take them to trading posts where anyone in the world stopping by can buy them.
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Old 07-25-2003, 03:58 PM   #16
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RWGIRL

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Thanks for sticking to your guns.

It is wrong and immoral for a person to sell the pattern, designs or outfit of another tribe. This is selling tradition -pure and simple.

"Cultural prostitution" is a good term for this action.

This is the same reason many powwows do not allow cameras to photograph certain dances or events taking place in the arena. There are somethings that should not be sold to whoever can pay the price.

WRONG IS WRONG!
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:06 PM   #17
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Ok...ALL YA'ALL "traditional natives" need to step back and take a chill pill....CULTURAL PROSTITUTION...ZZZZiiifff!

ZZzzz...trading has been a long tradition of american indian tribes...WHY do you think many things are similar in designs and patterns? What exactly is a "traditional" cheorkee dress? Is it made out of fabric? Did you buy it at a FABRIC STORE? So then how traditional really are you talking about? BUUHH~! All you all need to think before you critisize:Yell
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:24 PM   #18
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AGREED, the indigenous people of N. America. traded.

But this type of trading was a mutual agreement between the owner (or person who has the right to possess) and the adaptee.

In this case, a Chickasaw/Choctaw is having an Eastern Cherokee sell a Otoe patterned dress.

Is this ethical?

If a dealer out in NC sold Shoshone buckskin dresses to whoever could afford it, it would hurt and offend Shoshone people who got wind of it, wouldn't it?

About the question of "what is a traditional Cherokee dress?"

Well how far back do you want to go historically?

Back to when they wore skins and went topless????

Most southeastern tribes did this, depending on how far back you want to consider "tradition." I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Just a historical tidbit.
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Old 07-25-2003, 05:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by rwgirl
I may seem radical, but don't you have to be a certain tribe to be wearing ribbonwork applique? My goodness, what is the pow wow world coming to when you can buy someone's tribal regalia on the net? LOL but seriously, what tribe will just sell thier rights to a regalia on the pow wows.com cloth board? It's a sad day in oklahoma.
I was taught that you have to get permission to wear an outfit outside of your own tribe. Therefore even though a Kiowa dancer taught me to dance, I still asked for permission to wear the T dress. Now I have both a Kiowa T dress and a Chickasaw Stomp Dress. I contest in the T dress but have to be careful because there's an Elder who requests that I wear my stomp dress whenever she's around. So I always bring both dresses and am proud to wear both. My daughter wears the stomp dress and will have to ask permission to wear otherwise too.

Just wondering what you thought RWGirl, because I don't find you radical at all, but quite knowledgeable.

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Old 07-25-2003, 05:23 PM   #20
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Thumbs down

Ethical according to what? YOUR standards...obviously not.

However I see no problem with her selling the dress no matter what its orgin. It would be a different case if the dress was an heirloom of some sort, passed down from generation to generation, is this the case? NO. The dress was made simply for sale...

i see your profile, you go to powwows, take a look around and see the different dancers from different tribes participating in the same category. I am just simply stating the obvious and your comment of "cultural prostitution" is just plain ignorant. :( if you don't agree with the fact that other tribes participate in different forms of dance then why POWWOW?

Myself, when i see someone from a different tribe tearin it up in a different category at a powwow i like it...it means they took the time to perfect the dance WITH RESPECT and make OR PURCHASE thier regalia to participate in that specific category. I see no disrespect in that....

Back to the subject of the dress for sale...If you don't like it....or agree with it...then don't buy it. I am sure who ever purchases this dress will wear it with pride and respect. Hopefully they will know something of its origin and its style of dance...OR they will at least take the time to learn it properly.:Angel2

I guess...THAT IS THE RISK OF MAKING A SALE (?) whether YOU agree with it or not.

GO WITH THE FLO iz all i am sayin....just my point of view.
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