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Old 03-17-2006, 07:09 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
So this feathering tradition was taught by the Ponca (the late Harry Buffalo Head) and the Kiowa (the present Kiowa Tribal Chairman)?????



Hmmmmmmm??????????????????

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Old 03-18-2006, 05:19 PM   #42
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WhoMe,

I am sure you talked to Powowbum49 aboutwhat happened at this powwow. And yes it was caused by a trouble maker. Last I heard he is up in Michgan but who knows where he is now. So thats that and I have never seen it done again.

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Old 03-18-2006, 08:29 PM   #43
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Red face

I did not say I was taught this feathering thing from my teachers, I was saying who my teachers were and some of my experiences. I have been told that an eagle feather placed on the drum durring a song or set will stop the dance. I have heard this at Carnegie, Whitehorse and a few other dances in Oklahoma. I have been singing and dancing for 40 years or so. But things do change as dance styles change.

The incendent with the feathered fan happend in near Tampa, Fla.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
I have been told that an eagle feather placed on the drum durring a song or set will stop the dance. I have heard this at Carnegie, Whitehorse and a few other dances in Oklahoma.
HMMMMMMM! Please elaborate.

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Old 03-18-2006, 11:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
The incendent with the feathered fan happend in near Tampa, Fla.
That explains everything - not true powwow country!
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:12 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
I have heard this at Carnegie, Whitehorse and a few other dances in Oklahoma. . .

Tipis,

Did you mean to say White Eagle instead of Whitehorse? There are no Ponca powwows in Oklahoma in the last 40 years at Whitehorse.

I would love to see someone.... anyone...... put a feather or fan on a powwow in White Eagle or Carnegie and tell everybody stop the powwow and go home.....


Tampa yes. Carnegie/White Eagle no.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:39 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
I would love to see someone.... anyone...... put a feather or fan on a powwow in White Eagle or Carnegie and tell everybody stop the powwow and go home.....


Tampa yes. Carnegie/White Eagle no.
You said it WhoMe..... and I'm sure any number of us could go ask Billy EvansHorse HIS views on this....

Now.... I've seen particular songs stopped, for very specific reasons - i.e. a well known southern singer who travels up north alot (that should give all of you real powwow folks from OK a big time clue who I'm talking about) started somebody's family song, words and all, without permission, and an older woman from that family came over and dropped her shawl on the drum, then proceeded to explain to that singer exactly why she did it.... I'm sure a couple of you on here either saw this or at least have heard of it, but if not, PM me and I can give you the details that I recall.... my point is it stopped THAT SONG, but the dance (meaning the powwow, not the particular intertribal dnace) went on for a couple more days.

Likewise, I think all of us who have spent any appreciable time at OK powwows have been in a two step that really got rolling and somebody dropped a dollar or two on the drum to stop the song and that particular dance - but not the ENTIRE dance.

SOOOO - Here's my theory - the above examples are real ways of stopping a song that are grounded in established traditions that can be tied to specific tribes, dances, organizations, and people. I think that some hippy-trippy new-agey wannabe saw something like this and, in typical new-ager fashion, attributed some hyper spiritual meaning to it. Once perverted like that, it spread to dances outside of harcore powwow country, and subsequent changes (i.e. substituting a feather for a dollar, stopping the WHOLE dance versus just a particular dance or song, etc) only reinforced the pseudo-hyper-spiritualism of the thing (sorry to make up a goofy new word).

Once again, some real action done for specific reasons got stolen, taken out of context, and perverted by folks who don't know jack.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:43 PM   #48
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"pseudo-hyper-spiritualism " lmao,a great term thank you
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Old 03-20-2006, 02:23 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8Dancer49
You said it WhoMe..... and I'm sure any number of us could go ask Billy EvansHorse HIS views on this....
Str8,

I like Billy and all....

but I have personally seen him do some things at Cheyenne, Wyoming and Florida that made me go...



Hmmmmm??????
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Old 03-20-2006, 04:18 PM   #50
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Cool

You are right...White Eagle....I got a little confused on locations.

Str8Dancer49, I have also heard of the ways you explain. Have not seen it.

And as for stopping a dance or whole Powwow, you are right on that too. Have never seen the whole dance stopped, but have seen the set or songs stopped and then picked up later.

You have a good memory.

And Billy is known to do some very strange or contrary things when not at home base. He has his reasons...what ever they are.
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Old 03-20-2006, 04:51 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
...And Billy is known to do some very strange or contrary things when not at home base. He has his reasons...what ever they are.


Reason: "All-ho'n-gyah"
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Old 03-20-2006, 05:35 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
I like Billy and all....

but I have personally seen him do some things at Cheyenne, Wyoming and Florida that made me go... Hmmmmm??????
Yeah, I've heard him say some stuff that left me scratchin my head too - and not too far from Kiowa country (as in just a few miles to the south - Apache, Lawton, etc.... @ Comanche dances).

But, I just find it odd that of two people who were named as "authorities" on this "non-tradition," one has passed away (can't ask him!), and the other, odd as he might be sometimes, is fairly well respected - indicating that he wouldn't advocate the "feathering" thing as it has been described (especially in its extreme drum-destroying forms) in this and that other thread. Maybe he would - but thats the thing, we can ask him pretty easily.

That just brings me back to my point that this whole thing may well be a misinterpretation of real practices (the dollar on the drum thing) that got taken out of context and way over hyped by folks who don't know too much.
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Old 03-20-2006, 06:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Reason: "All-ho'n-gyah"

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Old 03-20-2006, 07:57 PM   #54
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Let me say one thing here, the Billy I knew 30 years ago is not the same one who we see today. Back then I didn't hear or see some of the things he does today and find he is a different person from then. What I learned from the late 1960s to late 70s' does not seem to hold up today. Most of my learning was with Harry and Lenore Buffalohead.

I only know what was taught to me and to have to defend it here is not what I was looking for in this site. Teachers do die, but so do ideas when they have been turned around by others or new teachings come around based on new thoughts or a quandry of thoughts. If I was missinformed by these people, then the fault lies with them and the others who taught me. I cannot prove or dissprove what was in the past by verbal account.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
Let me say one thing here, the Billy I knew 30 years ago is not the same one who we see today. Back then I didn't hear or see some of the things he does today and find he is a different person from then. What I learned from the late 1960s to late 70s' does not seem to hold up today. Most of my learning was with Harry and Lenore Buffalohead.

I only know what was taught to me and to have to defend it here is not what I was looking for in this site. Teachers do die, but so do ideas when they have been turned around by others or new teachings come around based on new thoughts or a quandry of thoughts. If I was missinformed by these people, then the fault lies with them and the others who taught me. I cannot prove or dissprove what was in the past by verbal account.
what tribe is oklahoma? just curious never heard of them b4
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
Let me say one thing here, the Billy I knew 30 years ago is not the same one who we see today. Back then I didn't hear or see some of the things he does today and find he is a different person from then. What I learned from the late 1960s to late 70s' does not seem to hold up today. Most of my learning was with Harry and Lenore Buffalohead.

I only know what was taught to me and to have to defend it here is not what I was looking for in this site. Teachers do die, but so do ideas when they have been turned around by others or new teachings come around based on new thoughts or a quandry of thoughts. If I was missinformed by these people, then the fault lies with them and the others who taught me. I cannot prove or dissprove what was in the past by verbal account.



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Old 03-21-2006, 10:12 AM   #57
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Most of my learning was with Harry and Lenore Buffalohead.

If I was missinformed by these people, then the fault lies with them and the others who taught me. I cannot prove or dissprove what was in the past by verbal account.
Why don't you just quit talking about people who've passed on...that's not very nice manners.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:15 PM   #58
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Real talk Singer*. He'll learn though. Not somthing I'm willing to get into myself. From now on I request tipis should keep those kind of comments to himself. No?
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:53 AM   #59
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Red face

I am sad to say that many of you do not read a message in its whole context. But there are many people on this site who just like to get on here to post to just get some points or just to put others down as in the last posting. I am not a writer and on the internet it is hard to say things without the whole information because it is hard to sometimes get it right. Some inforamtion has been passed on this site deliberately that is not correct or intended to be.

I was under the impression that we are here to discuss what we have seen, said or hear. Unfortunetly that is not the case with some of you. My teachers in Oklahoma, which is not a tribe for the boob who likes to make jokes to see himself in print, were and are good people. And yes, there are some who did tell me wrong information to see how far it would get. Sometimes it is a good joke by others to see how far misinforation will get before you learn better. And other teachers did and have imparted to me information that they knew or was traditional at the time. I see no further reason to defend myself or them or anyone to others on this site who only like to attack and not ask reasonable questions. It is sad that you will not have or have lost the knoweledge of those who did come before you because of your lack of tack or sensability. It is easier to put down than to just listen and ask a good question.

And since I am not a person who does not stand by and let others talk for me...I will wait patiently by the side till someone asks a thoughtful or intelligent question. All that we put on this site is really an opinion based on past teachers, hearsay and observation.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:28 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipis
I am sad to say that many of you do not read a message in its whole context. But there are many people on this site who just like to get on here to post to just get some points or just to put others down as in the last posting. I am not a writer and on the internet it is hard to say things without the whole information because it is hard to sometimes get it right. Some inforamtion has been passed on this site deliberately that is not correct or intended to be.

I was under the impression that we are here to discuss what we have seen, said or hear. Unfortunetly that is not the case with some of you. My teachers in Oklahoma, which is not a tribe for the boob who likes to make jokes to see himself in print, were and are good people. And yes, there are some who did tell me wrong information to see how far it would get. Sometimes it is a good joke by others to see how far misinforation will get before you learn better. And other teachers did and have imparted to me information that they knew or was traditional at the time. I see no further reason to defend myself or them or anyone to others on this site who only like to attack and not ask reasonable questions. It is sad that you will not have or have lost the knoweledge of those who did come before you because of your lack of tack or sensability. It is easier to put down than to just listen and ask a good question.

And since I am not a person who does not stand by and let others talk for me...I will wait patiently by the side till someone asks a thoughtful or intelligent question. All that we put on this site is really an opinion based on past teachers, hearsay and observation.
IT IS NOT SAD!!!!! .............we have not lost anything its called a changing culture and as far as you tipi your a white female from florida and shouldn't be name dropping like that....you can express your opinions but keep names out of it please.... it's not your place to teach anybody and you should know better you can't teach Kiowa's their culture, if your white........ so I won't stand by and you not reveal yourself cause it sounds and looks like you are native and your not .........but thanks for tellin us about the old days!!

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