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Old 08-28-2002, 05:57 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Gathering of Nations Head Drum Judges

Well just to let all you singers know this year at Gathering of Nations there will be women appointed to hold the position of Head Drum Judge.

Southern: Sunny Rose YellowMule
Northern: Delia Waskewitch (excuse my spelling)

Anyways the point of this is that I think it is down right wrong for these women to have excepted these positions. As a singer Im am highly offended, you other singers out there who can relate on what it is like to put in years, hours, sacrificing to learn and carry these traditions of this Drum on.
I think the powwow commitee has made a big mistake overlooking all the many qualified singers and Drum Keepers out there, Southern and Northern.
Sure these ladies both sing backup with very good drums............but they don't know what it's like to sit there hour after hour thinking of which song to sing for what, wether it be contest song, special, snake dance etc.
yes women play a certain role at our drums but to a certain extent. But the role of a Head Drum Judge should be a male plain and simple, I mysef have never seen a women sittin around a drum at a Drum Ceromony or asked to be drum keeper or even asked to be head singer we all have a role and know whats appropriate and whats not , sooner or later other commities are gonna see this and think it's okay to overlook more qualified individuals.
What do ya'll think?
I think drums should protest by not showing up.
:Argue
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Old 08-28-2002, 06:30 PM   #2
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There's a whole lot of people who already look the other way and attend this commercial powwow ran by non-ndns......I don't care how bad it gets, what we think of it or who the judges are, there will be those who will go for the money.

Just a thought on the women judges....whether I agree or not with the GON concept...I have been to several dances where the audience and/or dancers have been given drum ballots to judge the singing, women included. I'm not sure one has to be a male to recognize quality singing. A dancer, male or female, does not have to be sitting at the drum in order to respond to the singing. I know, and have known, many women who have taught me alot about being around the drum and about singing. I can think of several women singers and dancers who I would rather have had as a singing judge rather than some of the male judges I've seen selected by some committees.
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Old 08-28-2002, 06:55 PM   #3
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Thumbs up Diversity is good...

I totally agree with BaloneySkin!


I met Sunny Rose through my boyfreinds cousin Renay. Shes cool as hell man! The other woman I dont know, but just because they are women dosn't make them anyless knowledgeable about drumming/powwow.

The thing is, we need to respect all peoples traditions and ways. There is no ONE WAY. If you dont like it, stay home. But dont ever disencourage people not to sing because of your beliefs/opinions.

If we all followed one persons views and rules about pow wow, there would be no more pow wow. Times are a changing my friend, so either fall in line, or get left behind.:Thumbs
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Old 08-28-2002, 07:08 PM   #4
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Unhappy

Sounds like you got your feelings hurt. Do you need a hug?
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Old 08-28-2002, 07:47 PM   #5
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BUH!!!!

OKAY POWWOWECHIC49 THIS AIN'T ABOUT BEING COOL OR DISCOURAGING PEOPLE FROM SINGING, BOTH ARE GOOD SINGERS, SO NEXT TIME TAKE YOUR TIME AND READ, COMPREHEND.

BOLONYSKIN YOU HAVE A POINT AND NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE MALE TO RECOGNIZE QUALITY SINGING THATS NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS THERE ARE PLENTY OF SINGERS OUT THERE THAT CAN FULFILL THIS POSITION OF HEAD DRUM JUDGE THAT HAVE STRONG SINGING ROOTS THAT WERE OVERLOOKED, ITS LIKE WHEN A DANCER IS ASKED TO BE HEAD DANCER, THEY ARE ASKED BASED ON THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF THAT ARENA AND IT SHOULD BE LIKE THAT FOR ALL HEAD STAFF WHO EXCEPT THEIR RESPECTED POSITIONS AS HEAD STAFF.

STR8_UTE UMM.....UMMM.....WHAT THE......YA DUDE
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Old 08-28-2002, 08:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by stickybunsbuffalobal

BOLONYSKIN YOU HAVE A POINT AND NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE MALE TO RECOGNIZE QUALITY SINGING THATS NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS THERE ARE PLENTY OF SINGERS OUT THERE THAT CAN FULFILL THIS POSITION OF HEAD DRUM JUDGE THAT HAVE STRONG SINGING ROOTS THAT WERE OVERLOOKED, ITS LIKE WHEN A DANCER IS ASKED TO BE HEAD DANCER, THEY ARE ASKED BASED ON THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF THAT ARENA AND IT SHOULD BE LIKE THAT FOR ALL HEAD STAFF WHO EXCEPT THEIR RESPECTED POSITIONS AS HEAD STAFF.
I certainly understand your point and your point has merit....especially when one is talking about the HEAD drum judge.

Sorry powwowchic49....I cannot agree with women sitting and singing at the drum as men do. Perhaps others may do it somewhere else, but the one time that I saw it here in Oklahoma was many years ago at Tulsa Powwow. It did not go over at all.

However...there WAS that one Labor Day weekend afternoon at Lonebear's when they had that women's 49 contest........!!! :clap: :Music: :Music: :Music: :clap:
Dang...that was goot one !!!!!!!
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Old 09-04-2002, 09:43 AM   #7
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I agree with Baloney Skin. I know Delia knows singing probably more than anyone. Anybody who is in the singing circuit, knows her name and reputation. Dancers make good singing judges because you are aware of drumbeat being in coordination with the song (experienced drums know the deal on that issue), and I think they will do a good job. The committee is the one who does the picking and everyone has a choice to stay home and not participate if they do not agree with the staff choices. I do not agree with women sitting and singing AT the drum, no way.
Anyway, we all know GON and those who have been singing judges there know that things turn out the way the committee wants them to anyway. I will still be there because it is a very big pow wow and you will see the all the top drums and dancers and that is always alot of fun.
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Old 09-04-2002, 12:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by STATE
Anyway, we all know GON and those who have been singing judges there know that things turn out the way the committee wants them to anyway. [/B]
No. No way. I don't believe it.
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Old 09-04-2002, 05:43 PM   #9
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Ask a few of them. But whether anyone believes it or not, I know it to be true from experience on the inside. I still go, it is a fun pow wow and the singing is excellent. The CD is always good to listen to.
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Old 09-04-2002, 07:16 PM   #10
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Puleeeze Tell me it's not true!:Cry It can't be. Derrick wouldn't do that.
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Old 09-04-2002, 09:22 PM   #11
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tsk...tsk...people put your thinking caps on. Sticky isn't talking about these women being good or bad. He has said that they are good singers BUT...they are not experienced in singing at the drum like a MAN. Ya know Male...hombre...Father...Son...Nephew!

Sticky...I get your point and yes...there are many experienced and qualified male singers out there that GON could have gotten for Head Judges but ya know how Gathering has been run since Paul Pacheco stopped running that powwow. I support you all the way.

I am sorry that some of those who posted completely missed your point.

NIC--

P.S. how's your mama. Be sure to tell her hi for me!

:D
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Old 09-05-2002, 12:47 PM   #12
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I agree that there is nothing wrong with the women we are not debating thier intelligence or anything just the fact that having a female head drum judge is a contridicatory thing. You dont have lead singers that are female, you should be judged by your peers and all lead singers are male. Having women on the judging commtitee is a good thing, to have thier opion and knowledge to play a factor on deciding who is best, but just not the head judge position.

No disrespect to any woman,
I love you all and think very
highly of you and respect you
for who you are.
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Old 09-12-2002, 03:25 PM   #13
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AMEN.

:Yell



I agrre with whoever put this post into action. I know Sunny Rose very well. She is a tremendous singer. Sings with the wrong group but thats okay. We


BUT, She is a women and women aren't supposed to get into things like that. Singing wise, its a mans world, Men make most of the songs and they hit the drum and they lead sing and they are head singers. Women are only there to make the men sound better. This was told to me by My Uncle's Old man Cozad and Nelson Bigbow. They are well-respected elders which help make the southern style singing what it is today. Plus I am a singer. I sing with Southern Thunder and Sizzatail. And whoever else yall see me singing with. But there is nothing we can do about it now. Since Sunny Rose is head drum judge, youngbird will probably win the southern But not easily Sizzatail's coming back with some more power and some more brand new jams. Later


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Old 03-07-2003, 07:55 PM   #14
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what do you have to do as a judge??

when your a HEAD drum judge isn't that the same thing as a being a contest coordinator?? excuse my ignorance.. but how hard can it be for these two women who've obviously been around long enough to be asked to serve as head drum judge to pick out MALE judges.. i mean to my understanding, don't Head drum judges just count the points and NOT technically judge themselves contrary to the their title... well, whatever....if i'm wrong let me know..
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:29 PM   #15
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Gotta agree with Baloney Skin,


Quote:
I'm not sure one has to be a male to recognize quality singing. A dancer, male or female, does not have to be sitting at the drum in order to respond to the singing. I know, and have known, many women who have taught me alot about being around the drum and about singing. I can think of several women singers and dancers who I would rather have had as a singing judge rather than some of the male judges I've seen selected by some committees.
and STATE,

Quote:
Dancers make good singing judges because you are aware of drumbeat being in coordination with the song (experienced drums know the deal on that issue), and I think they will do a good job. The committee is the one who does the picking and everyone has a choice to stay home and not participate if they do not agree with the staff choices. I do not agree with women sitting and singing AT the drum, no way.
and Old G,


Quote:
But there is nothing we can do about it now. Since Sunny Rose is head drum judge, youngbird will probably win the southern

Just their two cents........
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Old 03-10-2003, 03:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by STATE
Anyway, we all know GON and those who have been singing judges there know that things turn out the way the committee wants them to anyway. I will still be there because it is a very big pow wow and you will see the all the top drums and dancers and that is always alot of fun.
You are absolutely right...GON has had a bad rep, since the Pacheco Family stop running this powwow.

NHP...:Chatter
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Old 03-11-2003, 04:59 PM   #17
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Well this is just my opinion but I think it's about time women judge a drum contest. I myself have only been singing for 2 years now, but I am amazed about how much I have learned about singing in that time. Other women can back me up on this too. Think about it, we stand behind the drum and we notice everything that goes on at the drum. We know when you guys mess up and when your off. But besides all that, drum judging is still very much contemporary and it's not like the women are sitting at the drum and singing. I very much believe women shouldn't sit at the drum, but when it comes to judging I say why not. Maybe you guys should give us a little more credit.
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Old 03-13-2003, 11:45 AM   #18
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Sunny and Delia will do a good job....

Cut em some slack fellas.....Geez....

Mountain out of a Mole Hill....
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Old 03-13-2003, 02:47 PM   #19
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BIG MISTAKE!!!

Well i have my two cents to lend here! I think picking women in general is a big mistake!!! Women are by far worse than men when it comes to judging. But thats Derrick Mathews for ya.... Its true GON is very commercial......i mean come on look who runs it......and any native american that participates.....is usually there for the money anyway. But Sunny Rose....com on....Delia i think will be fair.......Southern Contest is pretty much set. though......youngbird lately is scraping for singers and backup....so shes apart of their group now.......they'll be in there somewhere......... Honestly they probably already know this too......last year they came in last .....and didnt have enough energy or enthusiam to get up and recieve the 5th place prize money!!! So with her running and selecting judges........they should do better this year! And of course Zotighs will do well also!
Yes, its true women are only there to compliment the men singing......help.......thats it! And in all fairness Yes i have met a few women that could by far out sing...vocally and knowledge-wise most men! But in general .....women are easily influenced and biased ........out-right crooked!!! No business being head drum judges!!!
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Old 03-13-2003, 08:36 PM   #20
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Come on guys, do you really believe what you are sayin here? Some of you are saying the same things and no one else is saying different. Maybe the focus is off or some people are that unaware but there is more to the women being there than to "make the men sound good" and to "help the men".
No, I am not saying women are to sit on a drum as men. Some people belive they should some don't, I happen to be one that don't but it doesn't make either of us wrong, just that we have been taught different or follow different traditions.
It really sounds like a lot of pride and bruised egos here. Yeah, women were picked and you weren't, get over it and support our ladies. Notice I said OUR ladies. If you are apart of the native community you should be proud that some of our women are so honored and are so highly thought of as to be asked. Give em a hand, would ya? :clapping:


Besides, men are judges for womens dances isn't that just as bad? :Thinking
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