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Old 01-28-2005, 03:09 PM   #1
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Idiot Insults DRums

I recently posted this in Native Issues and then realized that it really needed to be in Singing.

I have like coming to this board for many things but never joined even though many topics were very, very interesting. But I had to join and let all know of something I just discoverd that makes me very sick. I am Indian and Lumbee and I am very proud of the Indian cutlure and my people. My brother was doing some geneology research told me about a Lumbee named Topatoya going around sayng that some new song he recording is a Lumbee Powwow Song and the new Lumbee Song. My brother sent me the song and what this guy says about it. I don't particulary like it but that is my person opinion. I was very upset however that this guy claims his song is the music of the Lumbee and I was very upset as a dancer with what this Topatoya said about Drums and dancers and here it is:

Actual Quotes from this Topatoya at ancestry.com message board ----------
“my friend thanks for your honest opinion, But it is actually is real music unlike the drum y'all play, all out of beatmdrum out of tune and one singer with a mouth so big and loud it driwns out the rest of the sings and the out of tune drume,but keep on priticeing and the lord will help you get your dance and drum intune,,god bless and take care.” http://topatoya.dmusic.com/

“Oh dustin i'm going to be praying for you man all those bad words hurts my heart and i will be praying for you thanks again friend and god bless.”
“Topatoya
Real Lumbee Indian music
not out of tune drums and singers
and step loseing dancers.
Lumberton nc”

My brother sent me both of these and the first was a response to my brother after my brother told this Topatoya that the song was not Lumbee music and not much a powwow song either and hoped that this Topatoya would stop saying it was representive of Lumbee music. But the real stange thing about this is that my brother is not on any drum. The second was a response to some dude that liked the song and thought my brother was jealous of this guys music.

I appeal to all Indians that this is not Lumbee philosophy and PLEASE do not judge us by this one mans stupidity when it come to honoring the Drum and Dancers.

I too went back to this person site and read the bio and saw that the bio was gender based to the female side but the picture is of a man?

Also found this as an e-mail: [email protected]

Maybe we (Indians and espcially Lumbees) can contact her/him and let them know a little bit more about American Indinan powwow music.

Thank you for your time.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:30 PM   #2
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Say what you will but 75 percent of the drum groups i listen to are either high or just plain untalanted. Theres plenty of drum groups that suck just because you are indian don't mean you can play pow wow drums. Over half the singers and dancers are singing and danceing to drums thats sound as flat as a beaver's tail, all out of tune and the drummer are so music deaft they can't tell if the drums are in tune or out of tune. Pow wow drums are tuned and when the singers sing in a different pitch then the drum you have a big problem and it's called NOT KNOWING HOW TO TUNE A INSTRUMENT. Pow wow songs thats sung out of tune with the drums are the worst noise i ever heard hehehehehe god bless.

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Old 02-10-2005, 04:09 PM   #3
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Oh i fogot to say, i am a Lumbee Indian and i have as much right to claim my music as Lumbee as you or anybody else. My music is real and i don't claim to represent the Lumbee Tribe,but i do let the world know i am Lumbee and i don't play out of tune instruments. I actually know how to tune drums and other instruments. You can call it what you want to but theres more to performing a pow wow song than beating a out of tune wore out drum..... NOW,,,,, If the lumbee tribe don't have a native lanuage what in the world are you people singing and danceing to.Y'all singing songs that not one person can understand because you have no native tongue and the song you are singing have no meaning so that gives ME the RIGHT to call my music LUMBEE just like all the other groups of lumbees singing songs that the Lumbee Tribe can't understand.The words you sing is not the Lumbee Lanuage and do not REPRESENT THE LUMBEE NATION because you don't know what you are singing about,,,LOST NATIVE TONGUE,,god bless.

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Old 02-10-2005, 08:21 PM   #4
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Good afternoon to all,

First, let me say that I am tone deaf, so talking about tuned drums is out of the question. I've read these posts on this thread and began to look back 15 to 20 years ago. I saw the likes of Ray Littleturtle, his father Mr. Pete, Adora Clark, and alot of the people struggle to let their heritage and culture not die. I saw kids like Paul Martin, Terry and Olny White, and Tony Clark sitting at the drum, singing. Did they know the words to the songs they were singing? I would have to say no. But they were 'singing'. Out of tune? I have no idea, but they were 'singing'. I saw these people, and many more like them, travel from community to community, supporting each other's powwows. I look back, and I see Archie Lynch dancing. I look back and see people like Lonnie and Ruth Revels struggling to bring together urban Indians. I look back and I see Nora Dial representing the Indians of North Carolina at the Miss Indian USA pageant. I look back and I see the small tribes like the Coharies, the Waccamaws, the Meherrins and others struggle to put on a powwow. Did all these people and communtities care about out of tune singers and drums not knowing the words the words they were 'singing'? I don't think so. Today, you read about the Haliwa or Lumbee powwow and the drums from others parts of the country that will attend these powwows.
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:25 PM   #5
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To argue about out of tune 'drums' and 'singers',to argue about 'Lumbee' music, sounds so trivial compared to the struggles of the people of yesteryear.

Maybe, in the overall realm of things....It's not how 'in tune' your voice and drum are...But how in tune your heart is.

I encourage you, Mr. Topatoya, to attend these powwows and critique these 'out of tune' singers and drums.

<----Joe
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Old 02-10-2005, 11:56 PM   #6
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Topatoya

Hey friends I been to many of our Lumbee pow wows and I seen and heard a lot of good drum and dance groups but all other indian tribes in america that have thier own Native tongue sings pow wow songs the rest of tribe can understand.These pow wow songs and dances have messages and healing power in them,, its very important to indians to understand what these pow wow was used for,they were for healing, love, and spiritual reasons and not compotistion between tribes as a game, god bless.

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Old 02-11-2005, 08:59 PM   #7
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Topatoya~ I am sorry to be rude, but u are a true idiot. You need to learn respect for the drum and the songs as a prayer. The best singers are humble and would never boast about being on tune all the time...because they are singing from the heart...thats a blessing. Sure, singers make mistakes, but if u want perfection go be an engineer in a recording studio...because that is a place for criticism. Us NDNs sing powwow to the creator not for you!!!! So, wise up and realise what the rules are for respecting the drum or expect to keep being treated like the idiot you are sounding like.
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Old 02-12-2005, 07:33 AM   #8
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Snowbird did you not read my reply above very well because you avoided answering all of it. Pow wows are for spiritual,healing,health and every thing else involving life.. You are so wrong and so off track,When performing for the master jesus snowbird a drum and dance group suppose to sound and perform perfect as they can and jesus and the rest of the lumbee members is suppose to understand what the worriors are singing and danceing about. We don't have a NATIVE TONGUE so the master jesus is listening to people sing and dance to unknown songs without OUR NATIVE TONGUE and meaning.So Miss snowbird you and others are the Idiots because you are playing indian but you have no ideal what that word means. It do matter if the drums and singers and dancers are in tune and in step. Im praying for you,god bless.


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Old 02-12-2005, 08:29 AM   #9
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Snowbird said...Topatoya~ I am sorry to be rude, but u are a true idiot. You need to learn respect for the drum and the songs as a prayer. The best singers are humble and would never boast about being on tune all the time...because they are singing from the heart...thats a blessing. Sure, singers make mistakes, but if u want perfection go be an engineer in a recording studio...because that is a place for criticism. Us NDNs sing powwow to the creator not for you!!!! So, wise up and realise what the rules are for respecting the drum or expect to keep being treated like the idiot you are sounding like.............................................. ............................. Snowbird how can a performing Lumbee drum dance and singing group represent our tribe at these pow wows and compete with all other tribes if they don't pratice and perfect thier talant? You said,,The best singers are Humble and would never boast about being out of tune,because they are singing from the heart....Friend that don't win the pow wow compotisions Snowbird,,these Lumbee Groups go to these pow wow to win and to win these compitision a groups must be ((P.E.R.F.E.C.T ) So be carefull with that word Idiot you are useing friend because you are useing it like a ecko and it bounceing right back to you,,god bless.
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topatoya
Snowbird.. You are so wrong and so off track,When performing for the master jesus snowbird a drum and dance group suppose to sound and perform perfect as they can and jesus and the rest of the lumbee members is suppose to understand what the worriors are singing and danceing about. We don't have a NATIVE TONGUE so the master jesus is listening to people sing and dance to unknown songs without OUR NATIVE TONGUE and meaning.


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Tapotoya.....Evidently you have never read Psalms Chapter 100...Verse 1.

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Old 02-12-2005, 11:46 AM   #11
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Yes I have read it Dad, but this conversation is about out of tune drum groups and out of step dancers and a tribe of indians without a Native Tongue singing unknown words in compotision at pow wows not to win souls for jesus and his church,they perform to win the compotision. These singers have no ideal what they are saying when performing these pow wow songs the lord do not understand these songs that have no meaning at all the words are in theses songs are useless as bubble gum in your hair. These drum groups attend these pow wows to perform in compotision not praiseing the master jesus,so please Dad don't confuse pow wow compotision with the love and teachings of jesus when the songs and the words don't exist,,God bless you Dad.

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Old 02-12-2005, 04:52 PM   #12
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First of all, the word is competition...idiot. If u were really native, you would know that games and friendly COMPETITION is quite traditional ! duh, handgames ect......You say I'm "playing Indian", but sorry, my tribe has its own language and songs...so don't be jealous. Also, sorry, we humans are not even CLOSE to being perfect...but the closest thing to it is praying from the heart in a song. I don't know about Lumbee powwows, but before u come on powwows.com and generalize about all kinds of nations and their singing, u better do your homework!! Why don't you name some specific drums that are off...if you know so much...be specific if your not just BS...u sound like u have never even been to a REAL powwow. Probably have no friends to go with....haha.
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Old 02-12-2005, 05:25 PM   #13
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Heres what i'm talking about snowbird,if you knew i was talking about my tribe the lumbee tribe and not your tribe why are you all up in my case, why can't i have an opinion about my people without you and your people jumping in on the LUMBEE issues that you have no voice in.Why call me names if you are not lumbee,you see you done it again friend insulting me personaly because you want to. I reread all my replies above and I thought you a were lumbee if i knew you were from another tribe i wouild have told you to start with that these are Lumbee INDIAN ISSUES here on this thread,so calm down friend and go back over to your people and leave us lumbees to our OWN ISSUES Poleasezzzzz. Oh i'm praying for ya god bless.

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Old 02-12-2005, 06:47 PM   #14
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Topatoya, do you sing? If so, what do you sing? Do you sing pow wow music and songs? If so, who do you sing with? How do you know so much about pow wow music and songs? Have you traveled to any other function other than Lumbee? What kinds of experiences do you have around music?
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Old 02-12-2005, 07:02 PM   #15
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Hey LSS, To start with friend I have plenty of exspirence in music,pow wow music and other but I will not answer any questons you ask until you have answered the ones i posted above. The questons I ask here on this thread are being answered by people asking thier own questons and talking crap to me because i have an opinion of my own.
In order to answer my above queston you must be lumbee. Reread all my above messages and come back and answer my questons and then I'll answer yours,god bless.


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Old 02-12-2005, 07:05 PM   #16
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hey...I'm only asking you what your own "Lumbee" tribesmen and tribeswomen are asking...some of which are my close personal friends.
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Old 02-12-2005, 07:27 PM   #17
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Hey friend are you ashame of your tribe share that info with us. Even if you are asking the same questons my tribesmen asking you still did'nt answered mine. To be honest with you friend I don't care what you and your tribe thinks because,,you have a homeland, a reservation, a Native Tongue and Federal reconistion. When your tribe perform in thier Native Tongue the rest of your Tribe understand the words and the message in the perfromance,,god bless.


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Old 02-12-2005, 07:42 PM   #18
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I'll answer your questions

I am Lumbee so I have the right to anser your questions. We have no language you are right. so what? move on. If you ask all of the experienced song makers, you don't need words in a song for it to be special and meangingful. There are many songs, flag songs, veteran's songs, etc. that are all vocable songs. No words. They are just as meaningful as any other song with words. I sing with Southern Sun, who is predominantly Lumbee and I am the head singer for that group. I helped make that drum and it has been smudged and prayed over many times and has touched many people. Apparently they don't think it is out of tune. We have had many compliments from other drum groups from other tribes who are much more experienced than us and know good music when they hear it. THey didn't think anything was out of tune. Opinions vary and you have yours.

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Old 02-12-2005, 08:04 PM   #19
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I'll answer your questions

I am Lumbee so I have the right to anser your questions. We have no language you are right. so what? move on. If you ask all of the experienced song makers, you don't need words in a song for it to be special and meangingful. There are many songs, flag songs, veteran's songs, etc. that are all vocable songs. No words. They are just as meaningful as any other song with words. I sing with Southern Sun, who is predominantly Lumbee and I am the head singer for that group. I helped make that drum and it has been smudged and prayed over many times and has touched many people. Apparently they don't think it is out of tune. We have had many compliments from other drum groups from other tribes who are much more experienced than us and know good music when they hear it. THey didn't think anything was out of tune. Opinions vary and you have yours.

Aho............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................my friend you have not answered my queston you have made a statement. hey I hope you and your drum group is FANTASTIC..but friend all the other indian tribes understand the words and the messages in thier pow wow songs and dances...they are able to tell if they are singing to the master jesus or singing because a new baby has been born,that my friend is a pow wow song it's more than hollering friend. Our Lumbee native tongue and spiritual beliefs were taken when the took our DROWNING CREEK 'LUMBER RIVER' and the swamps connected to the LUMBER RIVER of robeson county our homeland,,god bless.

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Old 02-13-2005, 03:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topatoya
the lord do not understand these songs that have no meaning at all the words are in theses songs are useless as bubble gum in your hair.
[url]htt
OH HELL NO!!!! Now I know you're not saying that us "RESERVATION" Indians with our "LANGUAGES" aren't heard by JESUS. From what I'm getting from you is that JESUS can only understand ENGLISH. LMAO!!! Dang, you are an IDIOT, I'm sorry to resort to name calling, but hey Mr. Topatoya, you are just asking for it. I was going to try to submit something a little less tempered, but you're just pissing a lot of us off. And I'm sorry for all of this name calling, I'm not the kind of person to go off on someone, but like I said you're just pissing a lot of us off.
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