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Old 12-14-2005, 06:10 PM   #1
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OLD SCHOOL-Drum Groups! Northern & Southern

What are some of the old school drum groups that are still jamming away at pow wow's. Drums that still make you want to dance and check them out.
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Old 12-14-2005, 06:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstreak
What are some of the old school drum groups that are still jamming away at pow wow's. Drums that still make you want to dance and check them out.

*L Are you new to powwows?

Southern singers started forming drum groups less than 20 years ago.

If a drum group is less than 20 years old, can they be considered "Old School?"
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:38 PM   #3
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Hmmm....another way of looking at this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
*L Are you new to powwows?

Southern singers started forming drum groups less than 20 years ago.

If a drum group is less than 20 years old, can they be considered "Old School?"
Why not? I know there are some groups that are no longer around....but some of the people may still pull up a chair at the local Center Drum or at the next contest. Very accomplished singers in a manner of speaking.

Besides....things have changed over the years. Several people even elude to separate Southern Drum categories (Traditional vs Contemporary).

I think we sometimes have a hard time conceptializing (sp?) that some of the "long time big names" of Southern Singing are "Old School" when they continue to get up and hang in there with the younger guys.

Keep up the good work guys!
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSS
Why not? I know there are some groups that are no longer around....but some of the people may still pull up a chair at the local Center Drum or at the next contest. Very accomplished singers in a manner of speaking.

Besides....things have changed over the years. Several people even elude to separate Southern Drum categories (Traditional vs Contemporary).

I think we sometimes have a hard time conceptializing (sp?) that some of the "long time big names" of Southern Singing are "Old School" when they continue to get up and hang in there with the younger guys.

Keep up the good work guys!

Okaaaay,

Then I would have to put you in the same newbie boat?

Very accomplished singers sit at their own drum groups and in the center drums whereever they come from.

Perhaps you haven't been around the drum longer than 20 years to have not seen accomplished singers all sitting around the big drum?
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Old 12-15-2005, 03:49 PM   #5
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Okaaaay, lets get to some questions....

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Originally Posted by WhoMe
Okaaaay,

Then I would have to put you in the same newbie boat?
Am I a newbie?...hmmmm....yeah Grandpa....a baby about 10 years of experience around the drum


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Very accomplished singers sit at their own drum groups and in the center drums whereever they come from.
Hmmm....are you eluding to someone Grandpa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Perhaps you haven't been around the drum longer than 20 years to have not seen accomplished singers all sitting around the big drum?
Longer than 20? No, but I have been at the Center Drum and at my own to notice some singers that were not so "accomplished". I'm not saying where, who, or placing myself above anyone else.....just stating observation.
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Old 12-15-2005, 04:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSS
about 10 years of experience around the drum.

That's what I thought. So pretty much everything is old school?

Ya ever been to the center drum at an Oklahoma Tribal Powwow?
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:44 AM   #7
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Maybe ol' school is based on how old you are? B/C if you're younger then a drum that's been around 15 years might be considered ol' school???? I mean, for lack of a better example....Run DMC were honored in 2000 as being ol' school and they came out in the 80's so it wasn't like they'd been around since 1959 or anything. *L*


Most older drum groups I remember as a kid have broken up and started other groups now. Most singers might jump from drum to drum too. So really....maybe the thread could be "ol school singers!!!!" *L*

mussy....

anyway, I just came in to tell you all...(YOU 2 KNOW WHO YOU ARE) to behave........ *L* BEHAVE DANGIT!!! It's gettin "somehow" in here. ya'll sound like a couple of old women (stealin from thunderheart. hehehe)
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Maybe ol' school is based on how old you are? B/C if you're younger then a drum that's been around 15 years might be considered ol' school???? I mean, for lack of a better example....Run DMC were honored in 2000 as being ol' school and they came out in the 80's so it wasn't like they'd been around since 1959 or anything. *L*


Most older drum groups I remember as a kid have broken up and started other groups now. Most singers might jump from drum to drum too. So really....maybe the thread could be "ol school singers!!!!" *L*

mussy....

anyway, I just came in to tell you all...(YOU 2 KNOW WHO YOU ARE) to behave........ *L* BEHAVE DANGIT!!! It's gettin "somehow" in here. ya'll sound like a couple of old women (stealin from thunderheart. hehehe)

CandaeCane,

That makes sense.

If you are younger than when southern drum groups began (20 years ago),

EVERYTHING is ol' scoo.


*L we CAN agree to agree?
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Old 12-16-2005, 12:17 PM   #9
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*L we CAN agree to agree?
*L*


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Old 12-16-2005, 12:58 PM   #10
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Just strollin through..........

Ummm...... northern old skool is ....... ah..........never mind......... falls on deaf ears in here!


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Old 12-16-2005, 01:14 PM   #11
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When I think of old school northern I immediately think of Porcupine, Mandaree and the old Badlands Singers. Porcupine and Mandaree are still around, but their line-ups have changed so much that you really can't say they're still kicking it because its all new crews. Sad to say, but truthfully, a lot of the guys comprising those groups in the 70s and 80s have since passed on.

As for southern, I'm not that old, but I do remember a time when there just weren't southern drums. Heck, back in the day, there weren't that many northern drums. Nowadays there are many, many drum groups...almost too many I think. I know that sounds wierd, but I think singers today are coming up in an environment way different than guys my age did. Learning to sing in the confides of a drum group with other young guys is a lot different than learning to sing from old guys...a LOT different. I remember being afraid of messing up so I worked hard and made sure I didn't...well, at least not that much. Today, it seems a lot of these younger guys just want to practice a few songs so they can go record a CD. Funny thing about those type singers is...ask them to sing a song not on that CD and see what happens LOL :
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Old 12-16-2005, 02:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
As for southern, I'm not that old, but I do remember a time when there just weren't southern drums. Heck, back in the day, there weren't that many northern drums. Nowadays there are many, many drum groups...almost too many I think. I know that sounds wierd, but I think singers today are coming up in an environment way different than guys my age did. Learning to sing in the confides of a drum group with other young guys is a lot different than learning to sing from old guys...a LOT different. I remember being afraid of messing up so I worked hard and made sure I didn't...well, at least not that much. Today, it seems a lot of these younger guys just want to practice a few songs so they can go record a CD. Funny thing about those type singers is...ask them to sing a song not on that CD and see what happens LOL :

Singerdad,


Exactly! Southern singing drum groups is fairly recent! I and Wahzhazhe sang with one, if not the first organized southern drum groups to travel.

You hit the nail on the head about this new generation of singers.

"Most grow up learning to sing in the confides of a drum group!"

I'm not knockin' it. It just is.


However, there is a lot to be said when you learn from a true elder who has been around the drum all of their life(s)!

I still ask questions about songs and their relationship to the Big Drum.



It sounds like you had some good teachers.
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:39 PM   #13
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Lets see, Lawrence Goodfox, Sr., (Pawnee), was a great singer and a great influence on many, and Mr. Vincent Bointy, (Kiowa) was a great singer, if not one of the best, I don't know if they had an "official group", I am too young to know, but I know, they are hard to touch, and two of the greatest ever!
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Old 12-18-2005, 04:17 AM   #14
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Post Plains Ojibway

I remember a group called Plains Ojibway, was wondering if they are still around, I can still sing their song to this day.
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:30 PM   #15
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2026, Where have all the elders gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Exactly! Southern singing drum groups is fairly recent! I and Wahzhazhe sang with one, if not the first organized southern drum groups to travel.

You hit the nail on the head about this new generation of singers.

"Most grow up learning to sing in the confides of a drum group!"

I'm not knockin' it. It just is.


However, there is a lot to be said when you learn from a true elder who has been around the drum all of their life(s)!
I quote WhoMe, but really this is for anyone...

Given that Southern Drum groups are a "new" thing (which I'm old enough to agree with :-) and given that there is a lot to be said when you learn from a true elder who has been around the drum all of their life; is there a risk that in 20 or more years finding such an elder will be difficult?

I mean, if a singer is a part of an "organized" drum which focuses mostly on their original songs in order to produce CD's and/or win contests, doesn't he risk becoming associated only with that drum and those songs? Would some of the "old school" singers listed in this thread be listed if they were associated to a particular drum?

I've found that variety is the spice of life and I enjoy singing with different folks when I get the chance. So maybe that's the answer is to sing in a drum group, but not to become only associated with that drum.

It just seems that as singers become more and more fragmented into drum groups, there is a risk of not having many true elders who understand how it is supposed to be done by everyone, not just within a particular drum group.

Does that make any sense?
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Old 12-27-2005, 04:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs49
Given that Southern Drum groups are a "new" thing (which I'm old enough to agree with :-) and given that there is a lot to be said when you learn from a true elder who has been around the drum all of their life; is there a risk that in 20 or more years finding such an elder will be difficult?
Unfortunately, I suspect that there will be plenty of "elders" in 20 or more years talking about how they were real traditional "back in the day." Usually those folks are self-proclaimed and surround themselves with supporters. You can see it even today.

Maybe that's why yoy used the term "true" elder....
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Old 12-28-2005, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs49
I quote WhoMe, but really this is for anyone...

Given that Southern Drum groups are a "new" thing (which I'm old enough to agree with :-) and given that there is a lot to be said when you learn from a true elder who has been around the drum all of their life; is there a risk that in 20 or more years finding such an elder will be difficult?

I mean, if a singer is a part of an "organized" drum which focuses mostly on their original songs in order to produce CD's and/or win contests, doesn't he risk becoming associated only with that drum and those songs? Would some of the "old school" singers listed in this thread be listed if they were associated to a particular drum?

It just seems that as singers become more and more fragmented into drum groups, there is a risk of not having many true elders who understand how it is supposed to be done by everyone, not just within a particular drum group.

Does that make any sense?

Hobbs,

I can definitely relate to this. I see what you are saying because I fall into both of these categories.

I sing with an organized drum. I have been invited to sit in and travel with several other organized drum groups. These drum groups supply me with their new compositions so I will know the songs when called upon.

A lot of these newer songs that belong to organized drum groups are extremely beautiful. Some are powerful. Others are very inspiring.

But when I sit in the center drum (the big drum) I always try and start older songs when it is my turn to sing.



To WhoMe, "it is important that we sing older songs and keep them alive, so that we can honor the memory of our ancestors and those who have given us these ways that we enjoy today."
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Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

Last edited by WhoMe; 12-28-2005 at 04:53 PM..
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by WhoMe
But when I sit in the center drum (the big drum) I always try and start older songs when it is my turn to sing.

Thanks for the thoughts. You've actually addressed another observance of mine at the same time. I've noticed that when there is a big drum, you do hear more of the older songs even with all of these very powerful, beautiful, and inspiring new songs that belong to organized drums. I'd always assumed this was due to honoring the rights of the song composer/owner. But I see now that there may be other aspects to this behavior as well such as honoring those who came before us! Thanks for that insight!

I knew there was a reason I frequent this board :-)
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs49
Thanks for the thoughts. You've actually addressed another observance of mine at the same time. I've noticed that when there is a big drum, you do hear more of the older songs even with all of these very powerful, beautiful, and inspiring new songs that belong to organized drums. I'd always assumed this was due to honoring the rights of the song composer/owner. But I see now that there may be other aspects to this behavior as well such as honoring those who came before us! Thanks for that insight!

I knew there was a reason I frequent this board :-)
hobbs,

I would also like to add that many of the older songs are equally as beautiful, powerful and inspiring.

They just aren't as long or complicated as the newer compositions.

Has anyone noticed that some of the newer starts are as long as the entire song of some older songs?
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Old 12-29-2005, 11:04 AM   #20
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I just have one comment. Dosen't being around for at least 20 years earn enough respect to be called old school, because it is a totally different style of singing then todays contemp. singing. Plus I know a drum group out of oklahoma that was around a LITTLE bit longer THE ORIGINAL singers, basically all the grandpas. WHOME i have a feeling you know what I'm talking about, if you have ever watched tombstone.
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