[lumbee_warrior]

Does anyone know of any CDs out there composed of only songs for straight dancers? I would love to find this if I could.

LW

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Ponca War Dance Songs, Vols. I and II. Indian House Recordings, Taos, New Mexico

[hobbs49]

Originally Posted by Gledanh Zhinga

Ponca War Dance Songs, Vols. I and II. Indian House Recordings, Taos, New Mexico

That right there is like an entire powwow music collection on two CD's. Songs with words, songs without words, slower songs, and faster songs. Even got some trot songs. Glad they finally put it out on CD!

[Lapis Queen]

Originally Posted by lumbee_warrior

Does anyone know of any CDs out there composed of only songs for straight dancers? I would love to find this if I could.

LW

LW,

My hubby has several recordings of these songs if you'd like. Just get up with us...you've got our contact information.

LQ

[billyjoejimbob]

Reviving a thread...

Are these words in print anywhere?

[powwowbum49]

BJJB

What are you asking for ole boy...the words to the songs written down?

Most all of the old Ponca songs have been put down in recordings that translate and/or break down the words so that one can hear them. I think that some have even been typed out but since Ponca does not have a written form it varies on who wrote them out as to how they are showing to phonetically pronounce them.

Since the Ponca are the ones that sponsered the 4 non native Hethuska groups many years ago their songs are sang at those dances and have been put down so that they are sang correctly and in the correct order.

Let me know what you are asking about and maybe I can help.

[Gledanh Zhinga]

An old written form (Romanization) of Ponca speech is in "The Cegiha Language" by James Owen Dorsey, a book Published in 1890. I believe it was reprinted in 1990 by the U.S. Government Printing Office. The original contains about 800+ pages including the title, intro, etc.

Dorsey also wrote "Omaha and Ponka Letters."

[edh]

There is the start of an online Omaha-Ponca dictionary here
Dictionary - Omaha Language Curriculum Development
This is just a sample format, but it has some words and sentences that you can hear as mp3 files. The folks who did this just got a grant for $350,000 to put all of the words that James Dorsey collected in the 1890s, about 20,000 words in Omaha-Ponca. The dictionary that was planned then never got finished and the words were just on slips of paper at the Smithsonian. There never has been a real dictionary of the language, the best is something called "Umonhon iye" published in 1977, but its impossible to buy a copy, and it just lists by English first, so its not much use in song translation. There are some tapes in the University of OK archives with the singers on the Indian House records giving translations, but I think you have to go and listen in person, you can't get a disk of that. If anyone has those translations sheets of the Ponca songs, I'd like to hear about it. It seems like some kind of urban legend that they exist, been hearing about them for years now, but nobody has a copy.

[Gledanh Zhinga]

If you google Jim Steiner and the McFarlan Library at the University of Tulsa, you can come up with information on their collection of some reels of Ponca songs that were recorded with Tony Isaacs. I don't think that there are written transcripts and translations, however.

[edh]

Yes, there seems to be some interesting stuff there. They have 3 or 4 whole days of Helushka that were recorded live before the Indian House published sessions mentioned above were. They have a tape of Harry Buffalohead just speaking in Ponca, and they have a tape of the hobbyist group back in the mid '60 that went on to be given the dance (CIHA). Its actually amazing how short a time there was between the Ponca Helushka being revived and it being taken up by non-Indians, only about 4 or 5 years I guess.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Originally Posted by edh

Yes, there seems to be some interesting stuff there. They have 3 or 4 whole days of Helushka that were recorded live before the Indian House published sessions mentioned above were. They have a tape of Harry Buffalohead just speaking in Ponca, and they have a tape of the hobbyist group back in the mid '60 that went on to be given the dance (CIHA). Its actually amazing how short a time there was between the Ponca Helushka being revived and it being taken up by non-Indians, only about 4 or 5 years I guess.

CIHA - California Indian Hobbyist Association. Still active, seems they had their own Labor Day "powwow' this year.