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Old 06-17-2004, 05:44 PM   #21
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Lightbulb Haunday?

Women at the drum being "gifted" with rattles. Definitely not from a Southern Plains Powwow tradition.

The only time that I know in Oklahoma when women use rattles is during a handgame tournament--a totally different deal from powwows. Handgame rattles that I've seen are made from large milk cans and have large mylar "pom-pon" style streamers coming from the top. They're really loud too.

That's my two cents (and sometimes all the aulhaungya I've got.)

I like that term "Tandy Clan." That's cool. Gyat'aigya.
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Old 06-18-2004, 12:32 AM   #22
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A friend of mine, a Shawnee from Oklahoma, a stomp dance leader and gourd dancer, sent the following after reading this thread. Thought I would post it.

"Traditional Shawnee women do not use rattles at the drum.

A water drum and rattles are used by the men singers during ceremonies and dances, but these dances are not pow wows. The drum and rattles are considered to belong to the men and women do not even touch these items, unless at certain times during the night dances."

He and I both wonder: Where do these people get these ideas?
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:12 AM   #23
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Makes me wonder where these mussy ways come into play. I hardly EVER go east for a pow-wow.

Heck went to Copan this year and man, they did some stuff there that kinda made me think, hmmmmmm

Something about gourd dance initiation. Singing one verse then moving to next direction, sing another verse and move to another direction and finally ending and facing east. Hmmmm thatsa new one on me.
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Iron Eagle
Actually one may notice that in some areas more and more events are being given titles other than "powwow" - like Fair, Celebration, Gathering, Union, and of course Doin' (the very old and very traditional title for a dance, etc.) And if the event is truly Intertribal then we must all know that we may see different traditions from different people including some that use rattles for various reasons.
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Kool B, T'aultaun o, and luvSdancer,

You all have shared some very good and accurate information. Thank you. I think T. Iron Eagle's quote above sums it up. The concept of powwow is different depending on where you go. The intertribal powwow SHOULD offer a place for all tribes to express their indianess.

True, some people are hokey and come to the arena with some strange creations. According to some of what has been posted above, there IS a lot of strangeness out there. I travel a whole lot to different regions and have a strong powwow background. But I would be the last person to walk up to someone and hurt their feelings by telling them what they are doing is wrong. It is not my place unless they are doing something truly disruptive.

Rattles HAVE been in the powwow arena. Not by women, per se, but I have witnessed men using them. When I was a kid, I saw Winnabago (Ho Chunk) men carrying them as well as modern "Eastern War Dancers" during the Eastern War Dance contest.

Just because most powwow people don't do it . . .doesn't make it wrong.
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Old 06-19-2004, 03:27 PM   #25
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Im a Northerner. LOL. so, I wouldn't know. I hope those of you answering here are from the southern tribes because who else would know better about this rattle shakin thing. :D
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