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Old 01-29-2007, 06:09 PM   #1
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What Does Your Drum Sing for Non-Southern Categories?

So, there are northern categories that are not traditionally our own... I know what I've been told to do, but what do you sing to cover songs like Women's Jingle, Duck and Dive, Chicken Dance Songs, Crow Hops, etc...

Do you use Northern Songs, keep the construction and lower the pitch? do you compose new songs to cover the category that are southern construction? do you borrow songs from other groups?

Just curious what other drums do...
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:44 AM   #2
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Whatever happened to the days when southern guys stuck to their songs and us northern guys stuck to our songs? Now, you have southern guys singing side steps, crow hops, and the ever-popular duck-n-dive song, and northern guys singing straight dance songs.

Why is it such a huge deal these days to pass a song? I don't get it.
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:56 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShield View Post
So, there are northern categories that are not traditionally our own... I know what I've been told to do, but what do you sing to cover songs like Women's Jingle, Duck and Dive, Chicken Dance Songs, Crow Hops, etc...

Do you use Northern Songs, keep the construction and lower the pitch? do you compose new songs to cover the category that are southern construction? do you borrow songs from other groups?

Just curious what other drums do...

RedShield,

We have composed our own songs to fit each category. We sing them at a slightly higher pitch but use appropriate drum beats.

Normally we only have to sing them in the northern states and also Canadian provinces, where you are asked to sing whatever song in-line you are up for.

In the southern states and Mega powwows, we only are asked to sing for southern categories.

.... but we are always ready for anything!
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Old 01-30-2007, 12:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Wojapi4Me View Post
Whatever happened to the days when southern guys stuck to their songs and us northern guys stuck to our songs? Now, you have southern guys singing side steps, crow hops, and the ever-popular duck-n-dive song, and northern guys singing straight dance songs.

Why is it such a huge deal these days to pass a song? I don't get it.
One of the reasons I ask, some good friends of mine were set-up at a contest here in the area, and when their contest song came up, they were asked for women's jingle... would be ok to pass if it weren't a contest song... but if they passed they're out of it... if we were in an area that Southern singing was actually understood, it probably wouldn't have happened, but whoever that judge was didn't have a clue.

There's one contest we're thinking about doing here, and I know we'll be asked for jingles, crow hops, duck and dives, chicken dance songs... like I said, the judges don't understand, Heck I even seen youngbird called for contest songs that weren't typically southern (such as the ones I've already mentioned) up in Idaho, so we have some ready if we need it, I was just curious what everyone else does. I have no problem passing sometimes, but there are occasions such as contest you need to be ready!

Just putting in my 49 cents worth...
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:20 PM   #5
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Something else I need to post here too...

If you're going out as a Host Drum, it really would not hurt to know these "Northern" songs just in a pinch. I have been to Pow Wows (down here) where we were the only drum. AND, you have dancers who have come to dance. One of my views is that if I am contracted (i.e. Host), you need to be ready! Point Blank! However, it doesn't hurt to talk with the MC and AD to let them know "Hey, we've got these songs...but can we work together to make them stretch?" I think the Pow Wow Committee, and dancers, would understand and greatly appreciate your willingness to accommodate.

Now, I am not saying that I am "gung-ho" for singing different categorical songs. I really could care less and prefer not. While I am a convert (happened early on) I know very little about northern singing. My take is to leave it up to those who know it best...or at least who are supposed to know it best.

There are a couple of northern songs I have composed. But really, I think they suck. So, I'll pull out a few northern songs that are borrowed from northern groups or straight songs that a southern group have used for a northern category. For example, on the Yellow Hammer Live @ Hollywood, Fl recording, I believe they have 3 or 4 songs for Grass Dancers. One of these we sing!

As far as contest goes...I'm gonna remain quiet for a bit and see what others say. I have seen others experience this in the past and I did not feel too happy about it. But, I thought they handled it fairly well. It would be interesting to see/hear how others of you would handle it; both as a singer or as a judge.

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Old 02-05-2007, 02:02 PM   #6
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One strategy you guys can use (but this won't work for stuff like side-steps for jingles):

take an ordinary straight song, and leave out the loud beats/honor beats. Southern singers tend to speed those up just a touch, ya know what I mean? For southern dancers, it's normal and understood that that's just how those work, but they can really throw off northern dancers.... its a very different feel from northern style. So just play through them w/ the same tempo and beat as the rest of the song.

Craziest thing I ever heard, was a Southern drum got asked for a chicken dance for some grass dancers, so they just took a Fancy dance shake song, and sang it kinda slow, never let it get up to full speed on the last verse.

Really, this gets back to the committee's responsibility - I don't think this issue should ever come up of Northern dancers having to dance to Southern songs or vice versa. Makes about as much sense as asking a Hopi to sing for a Smoke dance contest. Committees and ADs just got to be more on the ball.....
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:52 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wojapi4Me View Post
Whatever happened to the days when southern guys stuck to their songs and us northern guys stuck to our songs? Now, you have southern guys singing side steps, crow hops, and the ever-popular duck-n-dive song, and northern guys singing straight dance songs.

Why is it such a huge deal these days to pass a song? I don't get it.

My thoughts exactly! This is making me cringe reading it.

Contest or not..... can't you talk to the judges beforehand and make sure they understand? What the heck? If they were knowledgeable about these songs enough to judge em...... wouldn't they know it's just not done? I don't get it.
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:56 AM   #8
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I don't get it.
I just noticed I said the same thing you did wojapi...... that's funny.

ummm..... but yeah....guess that sums it up ...I really DON'T get it.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:44 AM   #9
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I just noticed I said the same thing you did wojapi...... that's funny.

ummm..... but yeah....guess that sums it up ...I really DON'T get it.
Neither do I. When did this become commonplace? I remember - in the not too distant past - when drums from SD would not sing crow hops because of past tribal spats. Now, you've got everyone singing everything.

Maybe I'm just naive of the new pow wow stuff, or possibly I'm remembering things wrong, but it just seems odd to me.
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Old 02-07-2007, 03:53 PM   #10
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I think we remember things right. It's everyone else that is throwing everything into the pot so we don't even know what we started with.

Guess I should just shut up and start my own powwow and run it the way I think it should be run........ Hey.......everyone else does it........why not me.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:23 AM   #11
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Respectfully from Oklahoma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojapi4Me View Post
Whatever happened to the days when southern guys stuck to their songs and us northern guys stuck to our songs? Now, you have southern guys singing side steps, crow hops, and the ever-popular duck-n-dive song, and northern guys singing straight dance songs.

Why is it such a huge deal these days to pass a song? I don't get it.

In the late 1970's, a drum by the name of GrayHorse Singers of Oklahoma led by my Uncle Jack Anqoue set a standard for all southern drum groups all over by pioneering and getting them accepted at Northern powwows. Drum groups like Pigeon Lake, Chiniki Lake, Whitefish Bay and Red Nation let Grayhorse use some of their songs or were given some songs as they knew they didnt have songs for those particular categories. In other words, they made room for them! As all Indians should do for one another. Also, when in regular drum rotation, whether we were at Rosebud, Calgary Stampede, Morley, or Bismarck, the A.D.s didnt care what tribe you were or where you were from, you had to know these songs when it was your time to sing. This is just our history I am sharing with you and only telling you from a southern stand point. I hope you all are having a great year so far.
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:25 PM   #12
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In the late 1970's, a drum by the name of GrayHorse Singers of Oklahoma led by my Uncle Jack Anqoue set a standard for all southern drum groups all over by pioneering and getting them accepted at Northern powwows. Drum groups like Pigeon Lake, Chiniki Lake, Whitefish Bay and Red Nation let Grayhorse use some of their songs or were given some songs as they knew they didnt have songs for those particular categories. In other words, they made room for them! As all Indians should do for one another. Also, when in regular drum rotation, whether we were at Rosebud, Calgary Stampede, Morley, or Bismarck, the A.D.s didnt care what tribe you were or where you were from, you had to know these songs when it was your time to sing. This is just our history I am sharing with you and only telling you from a southern stand point. I hope you all are having a great year so far.
C-Daddy

C D,

Did you ever go with Jack on one of his singing trips?
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:39 PM   #13
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I sang with ma cohn (Ducky) once, I was supposed to go to canada with them last nov, but couldnt make the trip.
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Old 02-14-2007, 04:17 PM   #14
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C D,

Did you ever go with Jack on one of his singing trips?
Hi WhoMe!
Yes, I went all over with my Uncle Jack from the mid eighties on up. It was really awesome!

Hi Southern Waterbird
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Old 02-14-2007, 05:10 PM   #15
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howdy.
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:05 AM   #16
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Hi WhoMe!
Yes, I went all over with my Uncle Jack from the mid eighties on up. It was really awesome!

Hi Southern Waterbird
Then I bet we know each other.

I sang with the 2LiveKrewofGreyHorseat Morley and Calgary Stampede among others.
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Old 02-15-2007, 12:02 PM   #17
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I sang with ma cohn (Ducky) once, I was supposed to go to canada with them last nov, but couldnt make the trip.
Originally Posted by CheyenneDaddy
Hi WhoMe!
Yes, I went all over with my Uncle Jack from the mid eighties on up. It was really awesome

i miss the times when all my uncles and aunties traveled and sang together. now so many of them are gone and just a few left. i still love to hear and see them sing.
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Old 02-15-2007, 01:02 PM   #18
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Join Date: May 2002
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Hey Who.... ya'll got a song for duck n dive??? I dig the fact that yall compose yer own songs for all catagories. I like that side step song yall had one of yalls first album.... I'd like to learn other songs for various catagories....... I remember I was in oregon at a powwow and youngbird was there... they were called up on for a grassdance song... and they just sang a slow intertribal..... wasn't a good song for grass dancers.

also yall are one of my fav drum groups.... be having all dem navajos.. and pueblo ndns singing in kiowa... now thats just keen.....!
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Dayum I make some keen DrumSticks!!!!!!
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Old 02-15-2007, 11:01 PM   #19
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Smile Well....

Since we are from the upper great lakes area, we often run across the call for a non-southern contest song. We do one of two things: We use a "golden-oldie" northern straight song and do it in the southern style, or we compose southern songs to meet the need for the northern catagories.

Either way, we are usually ready to meet the challenge..dont want to be passed-over in the drum rotation you know.
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:34 PM   #20
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Same Era!

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Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
Then I bet we know each other.

I sang with the 2LiveKrewofGreyHorseat Morley and Calgary Stampede among others.
Wow I bet we do know each other Who! 2LiveKrew!!!!! Those guys were nuts (I mean are) Aye!! That was a year before me cause I remember those stories. I begged to go on thaT TRIP BUT i GOT THE CHOPS!! I believe Duffield was the other powwow if Im not mistaken right?? Was there more?
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