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Old 06-25-2007, 11:13 PM   #1
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When is it the "right time"?

I've been pondering over this thought for some time and have been wondering when is it the "right time" to sing that new straight dance or womens traditional you've composed? People always say "give 'em something they know so they can dance well".

What are your thoughts on this?

Lss
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:27 PM   #2
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Talking New Songs

We Try To Sing New Songs At Non Comp Dances And If The Dancers Like Them Then We Sing Them In Comp Remember The Dancers Are Competeing Also So We Try Not To Bring Out A Song Their Not Familar With
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Old 06-27-2007, 11:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE DOG View Post
We Try To Sing New Songs At Non Comp Dances And If The Dancers Like Them Then We Sing Them In Comp Remember The Dancers Are Competeing Also So We Try Not To Bring Out A Song Their Not Familar With

Right on! I totally agree with you. A couple of questions for you...and others can chime in
  1. When do can you say they're familiar with it? When two or three out there has heard it? When you've been singing it for a year or so at non-contest dances?
  2. What happens when these dancers don't travel to non-contest dances? Hmmm...no way around that one it seems. Someone gonna be aggitated I guess.
  3. What if your song is a general song with no tricks/sudden stops? Wouldn't it be fair/safe to say that a dancer should be able to pick up a basic song by the end of 4 pushes?
  4. How many times have you all got out there to put a few steps together and find the song something you've never heard before? Was it because it was so old and obscure? Or was it something the drum put together for you?

Just playing "Devils Advocate" here. I'm sure other people can think of other scenarios that could easily fit here. Feel free to throw them out here as well.

LSS
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Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:07 PM   #4
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Ok, here is my take on this...

The drum I sing with sticks to non-contest (there just aren't many contest pow wows up here, and that's where we end up singing.)

We won't sing a new song unless everyone on the drum knows it... once everyone knows it... we sing it as long as it is for the right categoy, and appropriate. But if its one of our own we want it to be right everytime we sing it.

People that travel the curcuit over here know we have a lot of songs we sing regularly, but also know they will hear something new from us everytime we set up... it keeps us current, not just stuck in a rut that people get bored with. This year we've decided, to sing the new stuff on Saturday and sing the old stuff on Sunday, it works for us, people get to hear the old songs they've come to know and get to hear new stuff besides... now... and then there's competition...

I've set up and sang competition with a few other drums in my time... most ask for no tricks right off the bat if they don't want them... stick to the guidelines. When I have danced competition, one of my elders once told me... be prepared to dance anything... I would sing my new ones for prelims and stick with the old standbys for finals... that way there are no misconceptions or bad blood... because afterall... think about it... how did the old standbys become old standbys... they had to get sung in order to become that... if you got a good one, and the guys know it... sing it! When those songs come they are meant to be shared... share them...

Just my 49 cents worth...

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:02 AM   #5
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As a singer, I'll sing anything, sometimes it takes me a little while to pick some songs up, but most the time, I can catch on... The same goes with dancing.. However, there is a huge difference:

As a dancer, hearing a song I've never heard before, I can't 'Jam' to it, because I do not know it.

I'm not alone... I was competing in Loudon a few years ago, (there was only about 8 of us) and the drum came out with this sneak up, that none of us had ever heard.

This was not the appropriate time. After the song, we all asked the judges for a short break, and 2 more songs, which was granted.

First was a straight song by the co-host, went great, good song..

Second was a crow hop, by the host drum... again, a song we'd never heard before.

Luckily I was able to pick it up, one of the two that actually stopped.. (Yay for first)

However, the song sucked, and never should have been sang for that comp. I can't even recall the name of the drum, but I'm willing to bet Redshield can, his old drum was there!
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:07 AM   #6
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hmmmmm

So, how many of you all recall recall a drum pulling out an original for contest and it went well?
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When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

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Old 08-01-2007, 12:04 PM   #7
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSS View Post
So, how many of you all recall recall a drum pulling out an original for contest and it went well?
WE HAVE ON A JINGLE DANCE BUT ALL 4 OF THE DANCERS WERE TOP NOTCH AND THANKED US BECAUSE NOT ONE KNEW THE SONG SO IT WAS EVEN FOR ALL
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:37 PM   #8
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LSS,

We have brought brand new fancy dance songs out at Schemitzun, Red Earth, the Gathering and Denver March. We have 9 fancy dance songs that our our original compositions.

At the big powwows, we try to bring something new out each year. Because we don't get to sing as often due to the number of drums at these big powwows, we pull out our new songs whenever we can. This way the maximum number of people can hear it. Then we keep singing the newer songs at powwows as we set up.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:19 PM   #9
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Out here in AZ and CA, when the drums compete it is during intertribals. I think that would be the best time to bust out a new song. Unless its a crow hop etc... too bad intertribals can't be something other than straight songs.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:31 PM   #10
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ok...this is truely my 2 cents but i had to post here...LOL

i am by far not an experienced drummer/singer...but i have competed on several levels of drum comeptitions mainly as back up...but from my observation and experiences i guess drummerz you want to bust out your new songs during competition! like BRING IT because that is what everyone else is going to do so BRING IT...i guess it just takes and tests the overall knowledge of your group...you gotta kno ur songs...lol...and your style

I personally alwayz say I CAN LEARN A SONG IN 2 VERSUS!! if not, im not a singer AYE.. no not really...but i have learned many by the drum via digirecorder manytimes...so that is what i say...NOW gourd dance in Oklahoma...thoes songs made me humble...i can not learn them in 2 versus! haha...I LOVE'EM THO!
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:35 PM   #11
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ok...this is truely my 2 cents but i had to post here...LOL

i am by far not an experienced drummer/singer...but i have competed on several levels of drum comeptitions mainly as back up...but from my observation and experiences i guess drummerz you want to bust out your new songs during competition! like BRING IT because that is what everyone else is going to do so BRING IT...i guess it just takes and tests the overall knowledge of your group...you gotta kno ur songs...lol...and your style

I personally alwayz say I CAN LEARN A SONG IN 2 VERSUS!! if not, im not a singer AYE.. no not really...but i have learned many by the drum via digirecorder manytimes...so that is what i say...NOW gourd dance in Oklahoma...thoes songs made me humble...i can not learn them in 2 versus! haha...I LOVE'EM THO!

Good words tiBBy! And to all...Good words!

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To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSS View Post
I've been pondering over this thought for some time and have been wondering when is it the "right time" to sing that new straight dance or womens traditional you've composed? People always say "give 'em something they know so they can dance well".

What are your thoughts on this?

Lss
The "right time" to me is whenever it feels right. As far as singing a new song goes, I think it is easier to sing a new song high.
A few years ago, a new song was composed for a veteran's dance. The man that made the new song put it on tape for different ones to learn. And, when it came time to sing the new song, the way that it came out was not exactly the way it was composed or put on tape.
The composer said, that he liked the way that it came out and that he was going to keep it like that.

And as far as dancing to a new song goes, I would again, have to say, whenever it feels right.
To me dancing a new song brings out more natural moves.
Here in Oklahoma you have to be ready for anything at anytime.
And that is something we all know, here in Oklahoma.

I hope this helps you out Jason.
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffan Redhawk View Post
As a singer, I'll sing anything, sometimes it takes me a little while to pick some songs up, but most the time, I can catch on... The same goes with dancing.. However, there is a huge difference:

As a dancer, hearing a song I've never heard before, I can't 'Jam' to it, because I do not know it.

I'm not alone... I was competing in Loudon a few years ago, (there was only about 8 of us) and the drum came out with this sneak up, that none of us had ever heard.

This was not the appropriate time. After the song, we all asked the judges for a short break, and 2 more songs, which was granted.

First was a straight song by the co-host, went great, good song..

Second was a crow hop, by the host drum... again, a song we'd never heard before.

Luckily I was able to pick it up, one of the two that actually stopped.. (Yay for first)

However, the song sucked, and never should have been sang for that comp. I can't even recall the name of the drum, but I'm willing to bet Redshield can, his old drum was there!
Perhaps this is "typically Oklahoma," but I have always believed it is the responsibility of the dancer to adjust to the drum, not the other way around.

For whatever reason, if the dancers blow it, they blew it: let the chips fall.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
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The "right time" to me is whenever it feels right. As far as singing a new song goes, I think it is easier to sing a new song high.
A few years ago, a new song was composed for a veteran's dance. The man that made the new song put it on tape for different ones to learn. And, when it came time to sing the new song, the way that it came out was not exactly the way it was composed or put on tape.
The composer said, that he liked the way that it came out and that he was going to keep it like that.

And as far as dancing to a new song goes, I would again, have to say, whenever it feels right.
To me dancing a new song brings out more natural moves.
Here in Oklahoma you have to be ready for anything at anytime.
And that is something we all know, here in Oklahoma.

I hope this helps you out Jason.
Hey...thanks for the views/input. Like an "Elder" friend of mine said to me today..."It's not the views of one that makes our own way. We must be willing to take the view/input of many...respected or not...and take it to make our own.

What you have said here I think makes very good sense. It is something I can relate to and understand.

Biwa...it is good.
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To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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