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Old 08-23-2012, 09:55 PM   #1
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Question Haudenosaunee men's clothing question

I'm trying to figure out a particular item of Haudenosaunee men's clothing. Particularly, well, I don't know what to call it, but here's a link to a picture of a man wearing what I'm trying to learn about: http://www.peace4turtleisland.org/pa...nsclothing.htm

You can clearly see the man in the red shirt wearing "this thing" that looks like a wrap around skirt. I'm sure thats not nearly what the people would call it in English. Would anyone please help me to learn what it is called in their language and in English and some important points to making one. Are there any patterns available?

I tried contacting the person who put up the web page but havent have any luck.

I dont want to make one for ceremonial wear but actually for wearing around the house or whilst out camping.

I've seen some local Tuscarora men wearing them for Smoke Dances but that was a couple years ago and didnt think to ask them about it when I had a chance. Hindsight, I know.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #2
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Kinda hard to tell from the pics...but it is a wide, fingerwoven sash?
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:46 AM   #3
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No, its not the sash Im asking about.
He's not wearing a typical breech clout or aprons.
Instead, he has on something that looks like a wrap around skirt that some women wear. I dont like comparing it to a wrap around skirt but thats all I know to compare it to. Thats what Im asking about. It looks like he used typical three band broad cloth to make it.

Last edited by Berry Picker; 08-26-2012 at 10:49 AM.. Reason: To add more info.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:22 PM   #4
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You might want to try and contact James Maracle over at Tyendinaga. He would know.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:28 PM   #5
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it's a type of "kilt"
http://tuscaroras.com/graydeer/pages/childrenspage.htm
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:41 PM   #6
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Thank you for the link.
Why couldn't I find that?
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:17 PM   #7
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:15 PM   #8
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LOL indeed!

I went to a forum all about kilts just to see what info they had on American Indian kilts. And dont ya know them folks got offended when I told them how native people adopted the word kilt as an English word to describe these sorts of unbifurcated garments that "men" wear. Whats up with that? They were like "oh but those arent pleated. Its got to be pleated. So, what you are talking about are skirts." Um really? I told them that they were just going to have to accept the fact that native people have appropriated that word and are using it as they see fit! HOKA!
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry Picker View Post
LOL indeed!

I went to a forum all about kilts just to see what info they had on American Indian kilts. And dont ya know them folks got offended when I told them how native people adopted the word kilt as an English word to describe these sorts of unbifurcated garments that "men" wear. Whats up with that? They were like "oh but those arent pleated. Its got to be pleated. So, what you are talking about are skirts." Um really? I told them that they were just going to have to accept the fact that native people have appropriated that word and are using it as they see fit! HOKA!
Sounds like they got offended much in the same way people here get offended when someone uses the wrong word to describe things that we use... Example: people who get offended when someone uses the word "costume" in reference to "regalia" or "outfits".
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:34 AM   #10
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I know! It's so hard to be PC lately!

I grew up hearing and learning all the taboo words: costume, American Indian, and the dreaded "s----" word. And around here on the rez you still hear them all the time.

And we have no problem calling men's skirts "SKIRTS". Some call them aprons, but most call them skirts.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
And we have no problem calling men's skirts "SKIRTS". Some call them aprons, but most call them skirts.
I will admit that confuses me. In my mind, I see a skirt/kilt as an unbifurcated garment that wraps around and hangs down maybe to the knees. An apron is a squareish panel that hangs down in front or back. So, um geez? I'd like to see these garments yall are calling skirt/aprons that men wear. What people/rez are these you are referring to? Im lost on this one.

Personally, I think people just need to chill a bit.
I really appreciate yalls understanding.

I know its totally out of place to mention this and its not really up for discussion for risk of jacking my own thread. But this "misunderstanding" or whatever on the use of the word kilt has caused me to realize that when talking with someone of another country, for example talking with an Afghani while in say Korea, they are not likely to know who you are talking about if you say First Nations People, or Native People, but they will likely know who you are talking about if you say Native Americans or American Indians. You sure will miscommunicate if you say Indians. Indians are from India.

I dont believe in political correctness there is only respect and effective communication. Just use what words you can in a respectful manner in order to effectively communicate imho.

This reminds me of a funny story. I was out in my yard tossing atlatl darts for target practice. The neighbors are latinos from Guatemala. The kids came out and saw me tossing the darts and were absolutely fascinated. I explained to them that the atlatl is an ancient hunting weapon used by humans long before the bow was invented. Then one of them, who has way more native ancestry than I have, says "oh you mean like Indians." I looked at him and said, "um yeah, like Indians." It just amazes me how so many latinos have forgotten the roots of their own ancestry.

Ok Ive jacked my own thread enough. Learning about native "kilts" has been a rather unexpectedly multicultural experience for me.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:25 AM   #12
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...for example talking with an Afghani while in say Korea...
Afghani is their currency... Afghans are the people... had to re-read the sentence a few times to make sure you weren't speaking an Afghani coin while in Korea. ;)
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #13
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I no speek it a chino so well.

lol
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