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-   -   Pipes in Apache tradition (http://forums.powwows.com/f21/pipes-apache-tradition-71232/)

Stephan Grundy 09-15-2018 11:18 AM

Pipes in Apache tradition
 
Hello all,

I am about to start growing my own tobacco for purposes of prayer, and therefore wish to make a *personal* pipe (I am not now, nor am I ever likely to be, suited or qualified to lead a group ceremony; though my limited understanding thus far indicates that the ceremonial position of "pipe-bearer" is primarily Lakota and, if I am correct, was not known among the Apache in any case, the frequent gross misuse of the role of "pipe-bearer" by people of questionable nature causes me to want to make my position very clear on this).
However, since I was raised white and am largely ignorant of the culture of that strain of my ancestry, I am very concerned about not making errors which might offend in any spiritual manner. As this pipe is solely for my very private use, I am not so worried about inadvertently offending human tribal members, who are unlikely ever to see or hear of it; but I am very concerned indeed about the possibility of inadvertently causing offence in the spiritual realm.
If there is anyone who would be willing to give me guidelines in terms of Apache pipe making, usage, and adornment, I would appreciate it. I am given to understand that the pipe must always be cleansed and treated with the greatest respect, and that the stem and the bowl should be kept separate when they are not in use. I regret to say that, due to the bigotry of that side of my white family in Texas, who have vigorously resisted giving us crucial information, I do not know which Apache group we stem from; please forgive me for being non-specific.
Particular questions which have come to my mind: what woods are considered most appropriate for the stem? Also, I know that historically catlinite was used in some Apache pipes (horribly, there is a catlinite pipe which belonged to Geronimo that is now in inappropriate hands) and that there are several Apache craftsmen working with it today; but given its high significance to, for instance, the Lakota, I am keen to make sure that there is no problem with myself using it for this purpose.

WomanfromOz 09-18-2018 02:10 AM

Have you tried going to a Native American supplies store? I'm sure they could help you with some information. They may not be Apache but I'm sure they could help you with pipe making supplies.

Stephan Grundy 09-18-2018 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WomanfromOz (Post 1637164)
Have you tried going to a Native American supplies store? I'm sure they could help you with some information. They may not be Apache but I'm sure they could help you with pipe making supplies.

Thank you, WomanfromOZ! I have been fortunate enough to find the Little Feather centre in Pipestone; they are extremely knowledgeable and helpful people. I would highly recommend them to anyone else who has questions regarding catlinite and sacred pipes, or indeed a need to obtain true catlinite that has been quarried in a respectful and traditional manner.

wardancer 09-18-2018 02:10 PM

Well , I'm sure some "DNA" ndns can give the best advice ! There are a few "Real" Apaches around. You might send a message to LipanLady. She doesn't come on here and post much. Her brother is an Apache Holy man.

Stephan Grundy 09-18-2018 03:20 PM

I appreciate your kind advice, Wardancer, and I shall do that!

WomanfromOz 09-20-2018 01:04 AM

You don't need to be Apache to know about Native American Supplies Stores but yeah, I'm a proven DNA Indian, that's right. Thanks for acknowledging that fact.

I've been buying my sweetgrass braids from USA Supplies Stores for many years. :rolleyes:

wardancer 09-20-2018 11:41 AM

And I'm sure it's in your DNA to know exactly what sweetgrass is used for ! Just how did those Inuits get and use Sweetgrass ? Oh , I'm sorry , that might be considered "bullying" , never mind....

gilisi 09-20-2018 02:22 PM

More threads like this and I will need a REAL DNA Injun like Larry T Baskin to keep me off the scope

https://youtu.be/hDeWvj1kS3U

gilisi 09-20-2018 02:30 PM

Good medicine from the DNA drum...

https://youtu.be/UQO5Qcl8aAk

gilisi 09-20-2018 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WomanfromOz (Post 1637184)
You don't need to be Apache to know about Native American Supplies Stores but yeah, I'm a proven DNA Indian, that's right. Thanks for acknowledging that fact.

I've been buying my sweetgrass braids from USA Supplies Stores for many years. :rolleyes:

First, you accuse probably the kindest person in these forums, and a respected elder, of bullying; then you accuse a respected Southern Cheyenne elder of being a fake; and now you speak as an authority because you took a DNA test?!?

Go away.

I hope your DNA speaks to you someday loud enough for you to hear. Up until now you carry on like someone who has been skipping her meds.

wardancer 09-20-2018 10:46 PM

Thanks for the support "G" ! But for the record :"I have never ever claimed 'ELDER Status'.I'm just an old guy !"

WomanfromOz 09-21-2018 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardancer (Post 1637186)
And I'm sure it's in your DNA to know exactly what sweetgrass is used for ! Just how did those Inuits get and use Sweetgrass ? Oh , I'm sorry , that might be considered "bullying" , never mind....

You're not the only culture in the world to have smudging ceremonies. I have other cultural backgrounds thanks.

WomanfromOz 09-21-2018 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1637191)
First, you accuse probably the kindest person in these forums, and a respected elder, of bullying; then you accuse a respected Southern Cheyenne elder of being a fake; and now you speak as an authority because you took a DNA test?!?

Go away.

I hope your DNA speaks to you someday loud enough for you to hear. Up until now you carry on like someone who has been skipping her meds.

1. I never accused him of bullying it was about someone else. I just happened to click on one of his posts to refer the whole thread to admin. It wasn't personal.


2. How am I being an authority by referring someone to an Indian Supply store to get advice. None of you answered his question.

Australian Aboriginal people do smudging ceremonies too by the way. Sorry but you're not the only people who do it. Also many Inuit people are also Cree Indian. That's a well known Canadian history fact.

Nope, not on meds, don't drink, don't take drugs of any kind. Your hateful words just bounce off me dude, peace. :whoosh00:

You all must be sooooo bored as you're picking at me because I told a dude to go to a Native American store for advice. How does that affect you? Build a bridge....

WomanfromOz 09-21-2018 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1637189)
More threads like this and I will need a REAL DNA Injun like Larry T Baskin to keep me off the scope

https://youtu.be/hDeWvj1kS3U

I was being sarcastic dude.

I love Larry and the 1491's. I've seen them all. I love the " More Indianer than you one " It's hilarious &#128514 Ohh and Slapping Medicine Man.

PS: My ex-boyfriend was Indian.

wardancer 09-21-2018 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WomanfromOz (Post 1637198)
You're not the only culture in the world to have smudging ceremonies. I have other cultural backgrounds thanks.

Our Plains Tribes are the only "Indigenous Culture to use Buffalo Sweetgrass". So if you are using it in someone else's smudging practices , then you appropriated it from us , and that's still wrong !

gilisi 09-21-2018 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardancer (Post 1637195)
Thanks for the support "G" ! But for the record :"I have never ever claimed 'ELDER Status'.I'm just an old guy !"

That's true, I should have mentioned that. Olchemist hasn't either.

gilisi 09-21-2018 02:31 PM

I think we found a match for wounded bear.

Broken Arrow 09-21-2018 06:09 PM

Unburned sweet grass smells a lot better than the incense used in the catholic church.

Hm, older you are for sure.

Keep Joe's dad in mind.
Quote:

"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder"

gilisi 09-21-2018 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WomanfromOz (Post 1637199)
Build a bridge....

I made reference to two people who already tried that...

dooood.

:hysterica

WomanfromOz 09-21-2018 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardancer (Post 1637202)
Our Plains Tribes are the only "Indigenous Culture to use Buffalo Sweetgrass". So if you are using it in someone else's smudging practices , then you appropriated it from us , and that's still wrong !

Sorry Wardancer but there was a Cree Chief named "SweetGrass" in Canada. There are many "Plains tribes" living in Canada including Blackfoot, Cree, Ojibwa, Assiniboine, Nakota and Dakota. Plains Tibes have been having families with Inuits for thousands of years. All of the Inuit people in my family are also Native American.

I love the smell of burning sweetgrass. You can actually buy it here now. It is in every hippie, cultural store, alone or in smudging mixes.

I smudge to clear my home of negative energy. I smudge on the full moon to remember and feel close to my Ancestors (of all cultures) who lived by the moon cycles. I also smudge as an offering to the Traditional Owners of the land I live on to acknowledge that it doesn't belong to me and that I respect them.

For me it's a personal thing that I do in the privacy of my home so I don't see your problem.


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