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Old 12-08-2011, 03:36 AM   #1
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Question Southern Cloth Dress

I was wondering what Dress Pattern is used to make the Southern Cloth Dress? Where do I find this pattern? (Walmart, Hobby Lobby, some Hobby store, or maybe Crazy Crow?) I have looked in crazy crow catalog and seen nothing that says southern cloth pattern.... Or is it called something else??? I have no clue.... I have colors of the fabric, fringe, and beads.... just need to know which pattern I use.... Is there tribe specific styles or is it universal amongst the tribes???? I was thinking I could buy a dress already made, but if it needed repairs I wouldn't know how to fix it and would have to send it back and pay for repairs.... Any and all help is appreciated.... Oh and this is for my daughter and Wife, not myself.... LMAO!!!!
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:03 AM   #2
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:40 PM   #3
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When you say Southern Cloth dress do you mean T-dresses or the blouse and ribbon-work skirt combo? I noticed T-dresses tend to vary from Plains tribes. Like for example, I've noticed the sleeves on Kiowa T-dresses tend to be more square & somewhat short than S.Cheyenne T-dresses; which I've noticed the sleeves on S.Cheyenne T-dresses tend to be more rectangular and longer. But they still follow the basic T-dress pattern.

Last edited by Scabbraidz; 12-08-2011 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:46 AM   #4
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Yea... It's like what Nancy Jo's link shows..... I don't know what tribe that resembles, but it is like that. Kiowa style has the apron too right??? Or is that someone else.... So if the link is not the "T" Dress, where could I find the Pattern to make it??? Or is that it.... It is the one dress style that is open at the underarm section and they carry a shawl in the Left arm with a fan in the opposite hand..... I hope I didn't make it too confusing, Imma guy, I probably did.... LMAO!!! Maybe I can find a picture some where.....


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Old 12-09-2011, 01:44 AM   #5
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The link she provided is a pattern for a T-dress. So, yes that dress pattern is the what I think you're looking for. As far as if Kiowa women wear a shawl/apron around their waist, like the lady on the pattern cover, I do not know.. I know Comanche women do though. But, you might want to contact the Kiowa tribe, preferably their cultural department or the Kiowa Tribal museum, and check with them just to be sure. Thats what I would do anyway. They might be able to help you out better.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:58 AM   #6
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Both Kiowa and Comanche wear aprons. You'll need to do some research to learn how to wear the apron and the belt set. I think there is some basic examples with the pattern. Really to know exactly, the best thing is to be a member of that tribe, or know someone real good of that tribe that will instruct you.
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:32 AM   #7
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Thank you for yalls help and advise.... See yall in the threads
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:22 AM   #8
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That pattern mentioned above describes some of the details that delineate various tribal styles. There are differences in not only the sleeves but also the cut of the neckline and hem. And of course, how the dress is decorated.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:50 PM   #9
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So it's very small Details also??? Im really going to have to do some homework.... Thank you for the help....
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:09 AM   #10
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also to not forget that many northern tribes as well use cloth dresses, and their accesories differs, for example, southern ladies that daces cloth have high top moccs, a northern gurl wear, leggings and moccs, also the style and beadwork differ with what tribe you are, even on the moccs.
|It is hard to give you a direct advise as there are no general...
And just as scapbraidz notet not all have a dress some tribes wear blouse and ribbon-work skirt, and some wear the cherokee tear dress or the choctaw style dress.
Today it can be hard to see what tribe a person belong to, but with a good eye, you can see it in the details,(beadwork, cut in neckline, hem etc,style of moccs)and all details are important, as it can become totally wrong if you mix different tribal styles.
Best advise is what has been said earlier in the thread, talk with other dancers, of the tribe, that you making the dress.
Let us know how it goes...
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:36 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sunktaki View Post
also to not forget that many northern tribes as well use cloth dresses, and their accesories differs, for example, southern ladies that daces cloth have high top moccs, a northern gurl wear, leggings and moccs, also the style and beadwork differ with what tribe you are, even on the moccs.
|It is hard to give you a direct advise as there are no general...
And just as scapbraidz notet not all have a dress some tribes wear blouse and ribbon-work skirt, and some wear the cherokee tear dress or the choctaw style dress.
Today it can be hard to see what tribe a person belong to, but with a good eye, you can see it in the details,(beadwork, cut in neckline, hem etc,style of moccs)and all details are important, as it can become totally wrong if you mix different tribal styles.
Best advise is what has been said earlier in the thread, talk with other dancers, of the tribe, that you making the dress.
Let us know how it goes...



Thanks for that.... I will try and stay updated..... I know some may seem to frown on me for asking these types of questions, but they don't realize the history of both sides of my family... To shorten it up... My ancestors were taught that going to "WHITE CHURCH" was the only way and our heritage and traditions were of the devil... Then there are also those who are just knowledge hoarders and just don't wanna share... LMAO!!!... anywho... So this is why I am reaching out to those with knowledge of what I seek to restore back in my family. I would like to thank all of you for yalls help once again...
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #12
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Someone may already have mentioned this, but it all depends upon your tribe/nation. Eastern and Western southern cloth are very different, as I learned when I began to make my own cloth dress.
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:00 PM   #13
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Really to know exactly, the best thing is to be a member of that tribe, or know someone real good of that tribe that will instruct you.
That is how I learned to make my dress. My adviser is an enrolled member of the Eastern Band.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:53 AM   #14
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Hi, Please forgive my jumping in...
I was enjoying reading the thread, and related to your question, and to all the responses!

I have had the same questions over the years; I am Cherokee; raised white. I now live in An Alaskan village, where I am married to a Athabascan. He, and his people have taught me to be secure in who I am, and that choice of my styles, is a reflection of not only my history, but my life and that "blending" is what brought the Dentalium shell across Turtle Island. It brought the "T" (tear dress), the plains dress, the beautiful ribbon work, the quill, and all the beautiful beading and metal work...the list is very long.
I have gathered from their teachings, that I must reflect where I am from, as well as where I am; and each generation adds to the fabric. Just as their have been many changes in the Regalia of our women at Pow Pow.
It is their custom, when a person speaks, to stand and recite who their parents were and where they were from; then their paresnt and where they were from, and so on, as far back as they can. This provided them with the knowlege of their family, and history. It let them be aware of who they could and could not marry, according to their customs. Their clothing has been a blend of Russian/Mongolian/Japanese and many other infulences. They are a Mother tribe and one of the oldest currently known.
In all the research,that i have tried to do over the past 40 + years, I have found very little out there, that wasn't in some way, influenced by something else; whether it was the exposure to Europeans, or the woman next door.
So I appologize, I only mean to explain, hopefully, give you some assurance in what ever you or your wife and daghter decide to make, that unless you are going for "historically", and "period" correct, your choices will be yours and your piece will reflect you. Do not ever question yourself because someone else does....who are they?

I add this to the thread out of love and hope it is recieved the same.
agtommy
p.s.
In addition, I would also like to say that these are ALL good suggestions here about the actual patterns and the "styles".( I have my own ideas about "tear" dresses) You will find that even in closer tribal groups the ladies have their preferences to include or not, items or patterns they like, or not. Tribal colors vs. personal choice, family patterns vs. historical , and even working techniques can be subject to personal choice.
If you are competing, rondevoing, Pow Wowing or just going to work...well, you get the picture, ya?
I have chosen to wear my "jewelry" and my "style" every day with pride...I have my daily stuff...and my good stuff. :) Yor wife and daughter may appreciate you if you let them make some of the choices on their own

Last edited by agtommy; 12-19-2011 at 05:29 AM.. Reason: P.S.
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