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Old 11-16-2005, 08:57 PM   #1
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Old Style Sioux

Hello to all - I'm looking for information about Old Style Sioux dancing. It was all the rage at hobbyiest/BSA powwows 25-30 years ago, but to my knowledge, nobody was doing it much in the Indian world.

It's still popular with the BSA, and I want to know if anybody knows anything about its popularity on the current powwow scene, particularly on the northern plains, especially at Indian powwows. In 30 years of powwowing around the southern plains, I've never seen anything remotely like the classic old style look; it's all contemporary tradish, which shares some obvious characteristics, but old style it ain't.

So somebody who's on the ground in the north help me out - is old style showing up, or is it juust another hobbyist/BSA affectation? Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:06 AM   #2
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Many of the older guys in South Dakota dance this style, but few wear the outfit associated with it. Most wear what I call the Lakota traditional outfit...nice beaded stuff, but not contemporary look...if that makes sense. The outfit you're talking about that can be seen in those old museum photos is pretty much nonexistent.
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Old 11-25-2005, 01:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
Many of the older guys in South Dakota dance this style, but few wear the outfit associated with it. Most wear what I call the Lakota traditional outfit...nice beaded stuff, but not contemporary look...if that makes sense. The outfit you're talking about that can be seen in those old museum photos is pretty much nonexistent.
I remember Michael Ziegler and his see through britches.
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Old 11-25-2005, 09:27 PM   #4
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Dang QSW. I was thinking about this dude the other day. Saw him in a dance-off once with Oliver Printup. Oliver won.
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Old 11-26-2005, 04:39 PM   #5
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Thank you Quicksilverwade and Joe's Dad for contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion. I'm asking serious questions and would appreciate serious responses. If all you're going to do is waste my time, go somewhere esle.
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Old 11-26-2005, 05:06 PM   #6
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:14 AM   #7
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Slow Down, Cowboy!

First. from Rapid, take Hwy 79 south to Hermosa. Turn left on the road to Redshirt. On the other side of Redshirt Talbe, turn right, the turn left on the next road. Cross over the White River and go past Loneman School. At the end of that road, turn left through Oglala and go about 14 miles. From Chadron, take the road through Slim Buttes. You'll find your answer there.

Now... I made a comment about a Northern Traditional dancer whose name I've not heard in a long time. I did not say anything derogatory about you or your topic. Where do you get off on telling me where, what and when I can post. Why do you think you can come on this public forum, and on your SECOND post, chasitize me. I did not waste your time. Sounds like you are not a young person. Neither am I. I've met alot of nice people on the road, you do not sound like you are nice.

Hope you find your answers.

Moderators and to others on this site. I apologize to you for this post. But, I do not feel that this person's response was warranted. Again, I apologize.

That is all I have to say.


Jim
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:32 PM   #8
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Beadworker,
Now you done it, you ticked off one of the most laid back, easy going, and knowledgeable members of the website. Becasue this is a public chat people will go off topic a little by talking about people they know, events they went to, etc that are indirectly connected to the main topic. You need to go witht he flow and relax.

As for your question, Old Style is mostly a Boy Scout thing. Within the past5 years, I have only seen 1 Old Style outfit outside of a Boy Scout event. That one outfit was on display by an elder at a powwow and was used in his class. Later on, he did wear the bustle, but had on his traditional clothes on with it, and this was for show.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:51 PM   #9
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Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies.

The only actual NDN i ever saw wear something CLOSE to the old style outfit was Calvin Jumping Bull in 1995 or 1997.

That is a popular dance outfit because of the boy scouts and hobbyists. There are many different educational articles about it from the 60's and 70's. BSA traditions die hard.

Some people actually wear it out of respect, or at least thats what they are thinking.
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:15 PM   #10
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I'm completely serious.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beadworker
Thank you Quicksilverwade and Joe's Dad for contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion. I'm asking serious questions and would appreciate serious responses. If all you're going to do is waste my time, go somewhere esle.
You're not very nice....


This post is not a serious response Beadworker....

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME READING IT!!!



There....is that better...

sheesh....undies all bunched up in't....


Singerdad pretty much said what I was gonna anyway...
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad
First. from Rapid, take Hwy 79 south to Hermosa. Turn left on the road to Redshirt. On the other side of Redshirt Talbe, turn right, the turn left on the next road. Cross over the White River and go past Loneman School. At the end of that road, turn left through Oglala and go about 14 miles. From Chadron, take the road through Slim Buttes. You'll find your answer there.

Now... I made a comment about a Northern Traditional dancer whose name I've not heard in a long time. I did not say anything derogatory about you or your topic. Where do you get off on telling me where, what and when I can post. Why do you think you can come on this public forum, and on your SECOND post, chasitize me. I did not waste your time. Sounds like you are not a young person. Neither am I. I've met alot of nice people on the road, you do not sound like you are nice.

Hope you find your answers.

Moderators and to others on this site. I apologize to you for this post. But, I do not feel that this person's response was warranted. Again, I apologize.

That is all I have to say.


Jim
First let me say I usually would handle this by sending a private message but this time I feel the need to speak out.

JD no need to apologize ....... you did nothing wrong. And in fact in your response........ I think you handled it in a good manner, not that my opinion means anything, just showing you some love....

Anyway...... yeah....... Like was said. People do get side tracked some...... hell.... I've highjacked more than one thread myself! ( back in the day when I had a partner in crime we made a habit of it in fact! )

Now if it had went on and on....... then I would say that it would have been the time to say something........but man.......the first comments? naw..... give people a break. Things are getting to serious on here and time is too short to police every post. In fact..... I'll step out on this one here.......... it's things like this that is keeping some very knowledgeable people from adding to this site by not responding for fear of getting jumped on. Come on people......... lighten up!!
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies.

Hey! Hey! Hey! Make sure you remember not all Boy Scouts do that! Give some of us a little bit of credit. I started off as an old-styler until I found out that wasn't my place.
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:37 PM   #13
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Why should we give the boy scouts credit? Sure they "dance" at powwows, but so what? A lot of them arent even knowledgeable enough to dance. I mean, you should atleast know what you're doing, and look good while doing it.

Sometimes the BS are offensive.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:24 AM   #14
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Sweet,now i know who's in charge of saying who can and can't dance... muwah!


Quote:
Originally Posted by redthunder
Why should we give the boy scouts credit? Sure they "dance" at powwows, but so what? A lot of them arent even knowledgeable enough to dance. I mean, you should atleast know what you're doing, and look good while doing it.

Sometimes the BS are offensive.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies.
Prairie Chicken Dancers too.

Are we talkin about longhandles and regalia here?
Not terribly old style... 1800s, ja? That's my grampa's dad's time there. That's just one person away from a primary source. Think about it dude. I had the pleasure of knowing an elder (he passed on back in the ought-one... long live the mighty loon cla!) who had been named by a civil war vet.

I'll say it again cuz it's fun - a civil war vet.

Seriously though... can i get a witness.
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Old 12-02-2005, 02:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sookout sh'nob
Sweet,now i know who's in charge of saying who can and can't dance... muwah!
Sweet, now i know who's in charge of changing an opinion to a fact... muwah!
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Old 12-05-2005, 09:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redthunder
Sweet, now i know who's in charge of changing an opinion to a fact... muwah!

Touche'!
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Old 12-05-2005, 11:07 AM   #18
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OK OK, I was a boy scout thats why I can say that. (I didnt have the shape to prance around in my undies tho!)

Most non-NDN dancers started in the BSA, some are still in it. Some are doing it right, some arent. I know many of both types.

SUNBURSTHONOR - it was a joke....for some of us.

Just beware of the guys who dance and use their OA NDN NAMES in real life!!! You know what Im talking about. "Im am Lightening Bear of the Eagle Spirit Dancers, I have come to chant for you"
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Old 12-05-2005, 12:02 PM   #19
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
Boy Scouts like to prance around in their undies.

What????


They wear undies?
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
What????


They wear undies?
On their head........

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