Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Men's Dance Styles > Northern Traditional Dancing Putting together son's outfit...HELP! Putting together son's outfit...HELP!

Closed Thread LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-15-2004, 08:45 PM   #21
Oldfart
 
Kiwehnzii's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond repute
Kiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,893
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Crock, you're not making things easier on yourself , are you.

Feeding the fire?

You should just ask,"howdya like me now?"
Kiwehnzii is offline  
Old 01-15-2004, 09:04 PM   #22
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
C_Rock77 can only hope to improve
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 88
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
Crock, you're not making things easier on yourself , are you.

Feeding the fire?

You should just ask,"howdya like me now?"
Oh yeah...I love a good argument. Notice I'm not backing down? Thing is, I know for a fact there are some white people that have taken hits on here for being white and dancing. So, what do they do? They come back with a new screenname and CLAIM to be NDN. I'm not doing that. I'm not a punk. Keep firing away at me. I've got thick skin. I can take it. But don't be surprised when I throw your own argument back at you.

Dancing and theses ways mean a lot to me. You all have your reasons for dancing. Don't give me "I dance because I'm Indian." arguments. That's one of the biggest loads of BS you can give me. I know plenty of people that are NDN and don't dance. You've gotta have more of a reason than that to take the time to make your clothes and go to dances.

You're not going to change my mind about my dancing. I have too many friends, indian and non-indian alike, that have encouraged my dancing.

Just so you "guys" that can't stand whites "in your culture" so to speak know... This website you love so much is administrated by none other than a white guy!
C_Rock77 is offline  
Old 01-16-2004, 02:54 AM   #23
Biboon omaa
 
White Powwow Dancer's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
White Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond repute
White Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage)
Posts: 1,906
Credits: 2,913.54
Savings: 0.00
C_rock
Paul G is part Indian and part white too.
__________________
Asema Is Sacred
Traditional Use, Not Misuse
Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.
White Powwow Dancer is offline  
Old 01-17-2004, 06:57 PM   #24
Junior Dancer
 
geronimo's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
geronimo is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tarheel State
Posts: 242
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
c-rock, you gots to chill brotha

dancing is more than about putting a cool regalia together---and for some tribes it goes MUCH deeper than that

see this is our problem w/you--you have the gall to tell us that white people are making stuff and selling it--can we have something w/o everyone stealing it? it's enough that tribes share traditions, but it's above and beyond when ya'll want to take over too



you may not realize it, but you're disrespecting a lot of people on here---i'm sure you have good intentions, but sometimes that's not enough
__________________
No one can make you feel inferior w/o your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt

Last edited by geronimo; 01-18-2004 at 12:33 AM..
geronimo is offline  
Old 01-17-2004, 08:16 PM   #25
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
C_Rock77 can only hope to improve
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 88
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Gall, huh? So, it's wrong for them to sell beadwork and bustles when Indian people see their work, and come to THEM because they liked what they saw?

I guess it's wrong for an Indian guy to ask me to make him a pair of beaded mocs after seeing mine. So, the only good beadwork and other dance clothes items are ONLY made by Indian people, huh? So, not only are white people making items for dance clothes, they're being respected by other craftsmen/artists for their work. Also, I guess it's sacreligious that they're paying them 2 of the highest compliments that can be paid.
1) They like their work so much that they're referring it to people they know
2) They buy it to WEAR and dance in!
What higher compliment can be paid to someone about their work than to refer them to friends and to say it's good enough to dance in?

I'm not out to disrespect anyone. I'm just calling some people on their BS. If I weren't white, noone would be jumping me on this board for offering my advice to someone who ASKED for help.

As for taking over, I don't have that agenda...nor do any of the non-Indian people of whom I speak. The couple people I have in mind in this discussion aren't like that. They have the highest respect for these ways.

I realize that dancing is more than just putting the clothes together and doing it. It means more to me than that.
C_Rock77 is offline  
Old 01-17-2004, 10:40 PM   #26
Junior Dancer
 
geronimo's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
geronimo is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tarheel State
Posts: 242
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
while i don't necessarily agree with your position & what you've said , i respect your opinion--"i'm not out to bash the white man," i've just been taught that our culture is exclusive to us--when you're raised/socialized in an all indian community that's the way it is--at least in my personal experience
__________________
No one can make you feel inferior w/o your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt
geronimo is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 12:07 AM   #27
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
Tx_grass_dancer's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Tx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond repute
Tx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond reputeTx_grass_dancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 136
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 879.60
C-rock I was reading this thread and you are throwing in a bunch of stuff that makes no sense, and no one else is talking about.

Now c-rock I realize you were just trying to help, but you didn't exactly offer thee best advice. And now who ever started the thhread has probobly given up on it because everyone has been attacking you and the person who started it probobly doen't feel like sifting through all this. But if the person who started the thread is still reading heres a bit of advice on the advice already given.

Now Scott Evan's is definatly not the best way to learn how to make stuff. And it is not the bible on dancing thats for sure. If you get it, it might help you but im sure anything you need people could probobly help you with easily. I havent seen the book in years but I think it had some nice pictures of good dancers. Like many have said asking dancers is one of the best ways. By asking them you will make connections from those connections you will make more connections and its an ongoing cycle. if you have any relatives or friends that dance they should be able to help.
Tx_grass_dancer is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 03:28 AM   #28
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
C_Rock77 can only hope to improve
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 88
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I'll agree that Scott's book is not the BEST way to learn about dancing. However, I DO believe it's a great tool for someone wanting to start Traditional Dancing. We're not in disagreement on the fact that a BOOK isn't the best means of learning in these ways. It's just a good collection of writing and pictures on this dance.

Concerning some of the things I've thrown out..... A lot of the sentiment I get from what a lot of the people on this board say is that Indian people and ONLY Indian people know about these ways. If you're not Indian, how could you possibly know anything about our ways? Also, I get the feeling that just b/c they ARE Indian, they're an authority on the ways practiced in the circle. That's the sentiment I've been recieving.

I was just following the reason they're throwing out and showing examples to the contrary. So, I'd like to know which points you believe are completely irrelevant.

Speaking with fellow dancers is invaluable. Who wants to be dancing with a bunch of strangers? Powwows are SOCIAL events. Who are you going to socialize with besides other dancers? I try to make new friends at every dance I attend. Friends provide encouragement and advice that will help anyone.
C_Rock77 is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 05:15 PM   #29
Oldfart
 
Kiwehnzii's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond repute
Kiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,893
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Crock, try to understand. We see non-Indian dancers all the time. It gets offensive when a non-Indian dancer becomes arrogant and tries to be the teacher.

Do you get it yet?
Kiwehnzii is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 06:41 PM   #30
Biboon omaa
 
White Powwow Dancer's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
White Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond repute
White Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond reputeWhite Powwow Dancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage)
Posts: 1,906
Credits: 2,913.54
Savings: 0.00
Kiwehnzii likes stoke the fires on the boards too
__________________
Asema Is Sacred
Traditional Use, Not Misuse
Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.
White Powwow Dancer is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 08:30 PM   #31
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
Actually I don't take that as stoking a/the fire. I see it as being a balanced way of looking at this thing.

He first of all kiwehnzi said....

He sees white dancers all the time. Do you notice he does not give an opinion.. remark or sling an insult... just states a fact.

Next he says....

It gets offensive when a non-Indian dancer becomes arrogant and tries to be the teacher.

That is what the fire is. So .. we have a person that asked a question at 01-05-2004 11:03 PM .... c-rock comes in at 01-06-2004 03:59 PM that was only after GJJudd answered at
01-06-2004 12:07 PM .
Things went on.. and not until 01-14-2004 01:02 PM is anything ever questioned. That is when Kakeeya asked... "C Rock, Aren't you a white hobbiest dancer?"
Kiwehnzii then makes a post a little after that and is helpful and offers no confrontation, judgements or accusations.
Then at 01-14-2004 02:36 PM c-rock comes back with a defensive attitude and makes his post. It went downhill after that. Both sides then feel the need to defend their .... what ever they feel they are defending, but doing that, they are making it more difficult than it had to be. C rock... you could have just answered "yes I am" and left it at that and see what would have been said...

Now on the other side... why is it if you were native and knew how to be helpful and perhaps could have answered the woman such as kiwehnzii... why did you not do it? There was plenty of time. It is one thing to stand against those that steal..baztardize and another to let those that are complacent and apathetic remain silent and uncaring. If your going to bust chops.. (which I agree.. chops do need to be busted ;) ) then do it in balance bust everyone that needs it!

:Chatter
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 10:26 PM   #32
Like my new toy?
 
Privateer6's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Privateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond reputePrivateer6 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cylon occupied North Carolina
Posts: 781
Credits: 30.00
Savings: 1.00
To Try and Get Back on Subject

Ok what other headresses besides Roaches and Mandans appropriate for this style. As PowwowBum49 said in another post, fiber roach kits are not worth it. After making one and comparing it to a friend's old one, he is correct. In SE Louisiana some Traditional dancers wore bandannas, Is that appropriate, especially since I am now in NC? Thank for the info and hopefully this will help the person who started this post.
Jerry

Last edited by GJJudd; 01-18-2004 at 11:07 PM..
Privateer6 is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 10:57 PM   #33
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
C_Rock77 can only hope to improve
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 88
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I didn't get arrogant...

What was the point in asking if I was a white hobbyist? They didn't point out any part of my post that was wrong, or that they disagreed with. They only disagreed with me on the basis that I was white and not Indian.

To question me on the merits of what I say in reference to the dance clothes is one thing. To undermine whatever I say not on the merits of my statement, but only b/c I'm white angered me intensely.

They jump on me for being nice and trying to be helpful. Hey, none of these so-called experts were replying to her post. The ones that did gave very vague suggestions. When someone asks for help, don't give them vague suggestions. Give them some information they can USE. If someone has a problem with their car's engine, you don't tell them to open up one of those panels in the front and go looking around.

So, I told gave her some information that I figured she could USE.

This whole principle of jumping on someone when they're trying to help is ridiculous. If I were telling her to go out and put Vulture feathers in her son's hair and to send him out there in nothing but a breechclout, I could see someone jumping on me. But to just dismiss someone's advice because of their race, and on no other principle or information isn't right.

I've worked pretty hard to be able to go to dances and be judged on my dancing and other aspects, NOT my skin tone. I've been welcomed by many Indians in this circle. Quite a few of them have told me not to back off from dancing and these ways. They KNOW me. The people jumping down my throat do not.

So, all I can say is to know who you're talking to before you jump their *** for trying to help someone who asked for it.

If you disagree with what I say, fine. Bring it up and discuss it on the merits of the statement, not the fact that it came from a white guy. The whole argument of "You're white, you don't know anything...you CAN'T know anything about these ways." is one of the biggest loads of BS I've ever heard.
C_Rock77 is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 11:20 PM   #34
Teen Dancer
 
storm's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
storm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 424
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
boy am I confused. People of all ethnic groups study Indian ways, crafts, tribal styles. Some are really knowledgable. They know lots about beadwork and stuff. Anyone that can sew a darn bead down can help someone else get started. Culture however is a different matter. You have to live the life to learn the life. Non Indians have participated in tribal activites ( not in all the tribes but many)here in OK for over 120 years. White folks even have songs. They were few, and I guess they did not threaten anyones identity. Most of those old folks were kind and tolerant; some just looked the other way. But its done, they are in the circle,whether you like it or not, they aren't going away.
If they had any idea what that arena means to us they would stay out, but if it really means anything to you..you won't kick them out. My folks taught hospitality and charity. ( that is what got in this and thats what will get us out)
eepaho?
__________________
My bark is worse than my bite
storm is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 11:20 PM   #35
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
jingle_wmn is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 226
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Ccork:

All the dancers you probably get encouraged by are probably all white!None of them probably ever walked that red hard road that other ndn's have on this board.They are only protecting what is theirs, our culture is solely for us, yes i sound arrogant, because I feel it is what belongs to us and only us.I read in a previous post where Mato indicated that we all have to take into consideration the back woods,I would like to see how elders would approach you if you were to attend a powwow in the Northern States where people there take their powwowing seriously!You will probably get questioned on whether or not you have the right to dance and whether or not you were given "the right of passage" to dance.
jingle_wmn is offline  
Old 01-18-2004, 11:49 PM   #36
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
I read in a previous post where Mato indicated that we all have to take into consideration the back woods,
:Thinking Mato said that? :dontknow:
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline  
Old 01-19-2004, 12:16 AM   #37
Teen Dancer
 
storm's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
storm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 424
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I don't understand about "up North' I been dancing up north Like at Crow fair, Omaha, etc. for 30 years. There have always been white dancers. (even been to Canada)And what is this "right of passage" I'm just a ignorant man but I got my clothes put on me when I was little. Mom and dad called for our song and we danced. Then gave away afterward to thank everybody. Just like a 10000 other Indians. One of my grandpa's put my feather in my roach, walked me around the arena and prayed, just like a 10000 other indians. I know it is different other places but not that different. All this mumbo jumbo, earn your way stuff demeans the culture. It just a powwow,a social gathering; Not a war dance, or clan dance, funeral or anything "real" This is not the whole religion,There are ceremonies where these things apply; but there aren't any white people at those anyway. Is it so bad out there that indians are making Intertribal powows there whole "culture"? Last year a guy dropped a feather at a powow, they stopped the dance. My eldest Uncle, 78, got disgusted. His words "It's just powow, darn it, not irushka." What passes for serious these days has changed.
__________________
My bark is worse than my bite

Last edited by storm; 01-19-2004 at 01:12 AM..
storm is offline  
Old 01-19-2004, 06:07 AM   #38
www.wakalapi.com
 
Wakalapi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Wakalapi has a reputation beyond repute
Wakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 1,309
Credits: 336.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally posted by storm
I don't understand about "up North' I been dancing up north Like at Crow fair, Omaha, etc. for 30 years. There have always been white dancers. (even been to Canada)And what is this "right of passage" I'm just a ignorant man but I got my clothes put on me when I was little. Mom and dad called for our song and we danced. Then gave away afterward to thank everybody. Just like a 10000 other Indians. One of my grandpa's put my feather in my roach, walked me around the arena and prayed, just like a 10000 other indians. I know it is different other places but not that different. All this mumbo jumbo, earn your way stuff demeans the culture. It just a powwow,a social gathering; Not a war dance, or clan dance, funeral or anything "real" This is not the whole religion,There are ceremonies where these things apply; but there aren't any white people at those anyway. Is it so bad out there that indians are making Intertribal powows there whole "culture"? Last year a guy dropped a feather at a powow, they stopped the dance. My eldest Uncle, 78, got disgusted. His words "It's just powow, darn it, not irushka." What passes for serious these days has changed.
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

People who think a powwow is that serious are the ones who are into the romantic stereotypes, even if some of those people are US. If you don't like whites dancing next to you, then I guess you need to make sure you're a better dancer. I've seen some good dancers in the circle, and not all of them "looked" NDN (even though some who didn't look it, were). I've also seen NDN kids who want to pretend they are in inner-city black and asian gangs. I was giving a young drummer a ride home a couple months ago and he was bragging about being in the 12th Street Braves or some crap like that. Along the way he cracked open the window and threw all of his drive-thru garbage out onto the road. I should've made his young punk arse get out and sweep it back up. Yeah he was NDN. Respected life and mother Earth and all that. I'm glad there are so many young "adults" on this board who are better than the white people.
__________________
"Friends don't let friends drink decaf..."
Wakalapi's $49 unlimited phone service www.49deal.com
Wakalapi is offline  
Old 01-19-2004, 12:07 PM   #39
PowWows.com Addicts
 
Kakeeya's Avatar
 
Items Panda
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kakeeya has a reputation beyond repute
Kakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond reputeKakeeya has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: By a mountain on the Rez
Posts: 2,658
Credits: 1,339.79
Savings: 0.00
We've given up too much as Indian people, and I won't share or give up anything else. I damn sure don't want to be taking sewing regalia tips from a white guy and thought that others should know who they are dealing with, so I asked the 'aren't you a white hobbiest dancer' question. C _rock says he's not arrogant but he was on the other thread saying, I'll dance anywhere, wherever, no one will tell me I can't dance etc. To be honest, I've never been exposed to arrogant hobbiests (before I joined powwows.com) and his attitude pizzed me off.
I am a full blood Native and very proud of it. I live on my reservation amongst my people and partake in the ceremonies here. For social gatherings, I attend powwows and other events. Maybe some other tribes are lenient with the white man and will look the other way when it comes to them trying to horn in, but it isn't that way with my people. The only time I ever see the white people dancing at powwows here is when there is a Wannabee contest. Then at that time it's just for fun and laughs (then they leave us alone again).
Kakeeya is offline  
Old 01-19-2004, 01:55 PM   #40
Teen Dancer
 
storm's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
storm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond reputestorm has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 424
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I certainly see your point Kakeeya. Our tribes in Oklahoma have a different History than most Indians in the US. We have not had reservations since 1906. They broke them up and gave the land to individual families and of course any EXTRA to white folks. Some of us are lucky and still have our grandparents allotments and some communities have tribal componds etc. But breaking up the rez forced indians out into the white world more than ever. Some tribes with large populations stayed close but small tribes got scattered around. There are 10 mixed bloods for every full blood. In some tribes half or even quarter IS ALL THAT IS LEFT.
My uncle told me a story about his uncle back in the 50,s. They were at inlonskha (Osage war dance) Uncle said old man looked around at the dancers " Look, nephew; black hair, black hair, brown hair, blonde hair, black hair.. This dance is starting to look like a spotted horses a$$.
__________________
My bark is worse than my bite
storm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
more outfit component questions. itokasniye Straight Dancing 11 09-26-2003 04:32 PM
Outfit Maintenance CEM Crafts 5 09-24-2001 07:32 PM
Old time Traditional outfit info DancingHawk Archives 9 03-11-2001 03:09 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery