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Old 02-13-2004, 08:56 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by boman19
For your information, I did have a calling to dance and sing many many years ago when I was a young child. Just like your son may have had. I don't dance because I think it looks cool like some whites do. I do it for the reasons you said about having pride in the culture. I was called by my grandfather, father sky and mother earth to dance and sing and to celibrate their mysteries.
I
I am not going to continue beating what seems to be a dead horse here because it is obvious that I am not going to win this arguement (even if I am right). I have a comment about your calling to dance at a very young age: YOUR TWENTY, HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN FATHER SKY TAPPED YOU ON THE SHOULDER? I don't understand the whole relationship between scouting and learning how to become native. Did your entire scout troup get their caling at the same time? As for the other stuff you said I still don't get it your reasons while to you are legitimate are pretty generic (sorry) almost like you said it cuz thats what you thought you were supposed to say. I have never heard it explained quite so text book. As I said before it is not my place to argue this point but I will reiderate what made me post in the first place. If your non-native don't give advice about anything because it is not your p[lace. If you just can't help yourself atleast be respectful enough to not question the advice that is being given on here about Aboriginal things. Its not your right no matter how many of your twenty years has been spent in the circle. It doesn't matter what you think you know because you don't live the life. You are a guest remember that. I am sorry if I sound too mean but I just don't get it.
nOW WITH ALL OF THIS SAID OUT OF CURIOSITY WHY DID YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE NATIVE ABOVE QUOTE "But im a member of the Gulf Coast Tia Piah"? IF YOU ARE WHITE AGAIN i AM SURE THAT MY lack of knowledge has left me uninformed.

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Old 02-13-2004, 09:20 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by northerntradish16
C rock 77-

Man you gotta lay off attacking the real indians. Yeah, you MIGHT be a good dancer, but you gotta remember that THEY ARE NATIVE and THESE ARE THEIR WAYS that YOU ARE BORROWING, if you can even call it that. Just your behavior and your rudeness shows everyone that even if you dance, you certainly aren't following the Indian way. You should wisen up and be more respectful to the real Native and to you elders.
i THINK THAT THE ABOVE SUMS IT UP NICELY!
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:53 PM   #63
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Thats quote you made goes for you as well.
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by boman19
Thats quote you made goes for you as well.
Im not attacking Real Indians with my posts now am I and I am not dishing out advice about how to do things the right way. I don't try to be indian and I don't dance. I do follow much of the culture because it is my sons culture and I do it for him and to honour the people who have taught both him and I so much. I am only making an observation about respect and the lack shown by some non-native towards natives thats all? So you see that quote has nothing to do with me. Here is a question for you do you make it very clear that you are non-native or do you wait to be asked if you are or where you are from. I beat if the subject never comes up you don't bring it up either. Nuff said on the topic.

Last edited by crazydazy; 02-13-2004 at 01:07 PM..
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:17 PM   #65
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If you would read other post and threads i've made you'll see that I clearly say that I am white and if you would read my profile you'll were im from.
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:22 PM   #66
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Also maybe if you wouldn't say anymore about this arguement; then maybe I'll quit posting more messages about this stupid arguement. Maybe if you would come to the south and go to a few dances then maybe you'll understand what I've been talking about.
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Old 02-13-2004, 05:11 PM   #67
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Educate me then what does the following quote mean that was made by you if your white? "But im a member of the Gulf Coast Tia Piah" I said I am not from your neck of the woods so I am sure that I have missed something.
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:55 PM   #68
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Kiowa Veterians Society. My branch of the gourd clans is the Gulf Coast Tia-Piah. Do you know what a Gourd dance is? It is one of the oldest if not the oldest forms of war dancing, at least in the southern tribes it is
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:00 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by boman19
Kiowa Veterians Society. My branch of the gourd clans is the Gulf Coast Tia-Piah. Do you know what a Gourd dance is? It is one of the oldest if not the oldest forms of war dancing, at least in the southern tribes it is
You said that you were not native and you are only 20 so your not a war vet so how can you belong to the Kiowa Vetrians Society? Is it a wannabe thing? (no disrespect to those who actually fought or who are native and members? I have seen gourd dances but the question is how can you belong to a tribe and not be native.

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Old 02-14-2004, 12:19 AM   #70
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The way I am in this Society is because the headsman voted me in. Don't ever say this is a wana bee thing becuase you sound very white and ignorant even if you don't mean disrespect it still is disrespect. The way I belong to the Kiowa is they accepted me in to there clans a long time ago when i started dancing and learning more and more about the Tia-Piah
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:24 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by boman19
The way I am in this Society is because the headsman voted me in. Don't ever say this is a wana bee thing becuase you sound very white and ignorant even if you don't mean disrespect it still is disrespect. The way I belong to the Kiowa is they accepted me in to there clans a long time ago when i started dancing and learning more and more about the Tia-Piah
Hey I mean no disrespect to the others like I said. It is just that I asked you several times and you skirted the issue. I think it was a fair question though cuz you said in one post that you were Tia-Piah and then you said that you were white in another post I was just curious which was the truth and you sisn't seem to want to answer the question.
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:29 AM   #72
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I never skirted the question I answered the question everytime you asked me. I am white and I am in Tia-Piah there are whites in the Tia-Piah. Like I said you would just have to come to some the the dance down here and see what goes on at them.
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Old 02-14-2004, 10:37 PM   #73
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Crazydazy,
I've met non-Natives who belonged to native societies. These people usually have performed outstanding service to the particular nation or nations represented by the society, and usually are adopted into the nation. I had the pleasure to see one gentleman receive the necessary materials to make his reglia to join the Hethuska ( sorry if I mispell it) and find out that he was being sponsored into that society at a powwow giveaway.

In the area I'm originally from, Louisiana, alot of "non-natives" participate in powwows. Some do it to regain part of their lost heritage. Unfortunately that part of the country was heavily rascist and alot of native that could pass as whites assumed white culture to survive. Now their children and grandchildren are able to explore that part of hteir heritage that was abandoned.
Jerry

Last edited by GJJudd; 02-14-2004 at 10:40 PM..
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Old 02-14-2004, 10:45 PM   #74
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Well said! Like she said she has never been down here to see a dance and she doesn't know how things are done in Texas and LA.
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Old 02-14-2004, 11:24 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by boman19
Well said! Like she said she has never been down here to see a dance and she doesn't know how things are done in Texas and LA.
It is clear that you will never get the original point that I am trying to make. I am sure there are plenty who do. I am not ceasing this argument because I feel that I have won I am doing so because it is obvious that you are unwilling to get the point of my original posts and your arrogance will likey prevent you from doing so.
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Old 02-14-2004, 11:48 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by GJJudd
Crazydazy,
I've met non-Natives who belonged to native societies. These people usually have performed outstanding service to the particular nation or nations represented by the society, and usually are adopted into the nation. I had the pleasure to see one gentleman receive the necessary materials to make his reglia to join the Hethuska ( sorry if I mispell it) and find out that he was being sponsored into that society at a powwow giveaway.

In the area I'm originally from, Louisiana, alot of "non-natives" participate in powwows. Some do it to regain part of their lost heritage. Unfortunately that part of the country was heavily rascist and alot of native that could pass as whites assumed white culture to survive. Now their children and grandchildren are able to explore that part of hteir heritage that was abandoned.
Jerry
Yes I am aware of the fact that many people become honourary members of various nations and that they are usually made members as a result of outstanding service. As for your point about people regaining theri cultures to regain something you have to have had it at one point. These poeple are therefor native. Finally, as for white people taking part in pow wows, to each his own. Like I said there are white people who take part in pow wows here too but they don't compete and they only dance social dances. BTW, Boman, clearly stated that he was a member of the Tia Piah. It is not for me to say how tribes get their membership but I think that it is important to make sure that when you are doling out advice to others about cultural things that you don't misrepresent tourself which was what this whole arguement was about. Perhaps you should read all of the posts that I made.
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Old 02-15-2004, 12:20 AM   #77
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Lady there is no use in argueing about this point any futher its a waste of my good time and I know what I am talking about, and I never misrepsentened my self in anyway. I never was giving advice at any point in this forum I only gave my openionand was only telling you and trying to explain what goes on in the South. So please drop this argument. thank you
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Old 02-15-2004, 12:25 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by boman19
Lady there is no use in argueing about this point any futher its a waste of my good time and I know what I am talking about, and I never misrepsentened my self in anyway. I never was giving advice at any point in this forum I only gave my openionand was only telling you and trying to explain what goes on in the South. So please drop this argument. thank you
There is a really interesting thread in another part of this board that talks about adoption you should read it. And by the way you did misrepresent yourself when you stated that you were a member of the tia piah because some people like myself take that as meaning that you are native. So don't waste my time why is it that people like you have the need to be someting that they are not. 0- Don't bother responding
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Old 02-15-2004, 12:29 AM   #79
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You'll never understand but think what you want. The end.
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Old 02-15-2004, 01:11 AM   #80
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Adoption, the south, et al

Crazydazy,
Yeah I know about the adoption thread. reading it myself. The people I know have made real contributions i.e doing reasearch on history and crafts for a non-federally recognized nation, another does tremendous work on crafts and preservation of traditions, a third is a noted writer and dancer.

I personally believe that if you really do alot of work for a nation to help them out and they decide to adopt you, that's great. If you need to pay money, or some other kind if BS like that, then hell no "adoption" aint right. THESE ARE MY OPINIONS 'CAUSE IAM NO EXPERT! Let those who have grown up in the culture talk more about it.

Like I said, in the south alot of racism took place. The Houma for example were denied an education for the longest time and are now fighting for their recognition status. Their numbers are increasing, not because alot of wannabees are coming otu the woodwork, but becasue alot of families that could pass for white did so to survive. I am a good example. Somewhere down the road I have some native blood. but because of the bigotry, even in my own family, that aspect of my heritage was discouraged.

Now why am I saying all this? At least in my former neck of hte woods, there is alot more tolerance, in my experience, of non natives dancing and joining societies. It's very possible that the Tiah Piah ( sorry if I am misspelling) would have inducted a few non natives.

Now I have a few questions for you Crazydazy and no disrespect is intened.
Also anyone else can feel fre to answer.

1. Hold old was your son when he started dancing? The reason I ask is that I have a 5 month old and I want him to know his full heritage and join the circle.

2. How did he come out? I ask becasue I don't think I came out the proper way and again I want to do things right for my son ( or at least get an Idea of what to expect, I know every area is different). The way I came out was I was volunteering at a powwow and made a comment about dancing. A Houma elder invited me in and taught me for a little while before I moved with a job.

Anyway I type to much. I thank everyone in advance for hte answers to my questions.
Jerry
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