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Old 08-28-2004, 05:35 PM   #1
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visors on roaches...

ok,

how do i make a visor and should i make it out of turkey tail feather or turkey wing feathers? all comments and advice are greatley appreciated.
thx,
mike
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Old 08-28-2004, 10:17 PM   #2
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Just my personal opinion, but i like the look of hawk tail feathers, or smaller eagle feathers for visors. I don't use a visor but I always think about it on those really sunny days LOL
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Old 08-29-2004, 03:19 PM   #3
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amen :
I'm slowly making one . i has red tailed hawk feathers I only have 2 feathers so far but i'm learning to paint them

if you pull it off right it looks awesome but if it is done wrong .the it looks really bad.

Rob young
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Old 09-02-2004, 01:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunbursthonor
ok,

how do i make a visor and should i make it out of turkey tail feather or turkey wing feathers? all comments and advice are greatley appreciated.
thx,
mike
I've seen some made out of turkey feathers and didn't like the look at all. Hawk feather visors can look ok on a young dancer, but look wierd on an adult. Really, the only ones I've ever thought looked nice were made from black and whites.

Every one that I've seen was made similar to a bustle, just a lot smaller and the secondary lacings tie at the end instead of attaching to something. Loops are put at the bottom of each feather and a lace of some sort is ran through and it attaches underneath the roach. This is what I've seen. Granted, there are probably hundreds of different ways of making these.

Here's a quick historical question: Other than keeping the sun or bright lights out of you eyes, what is the significane of a feather visor?
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
Here's a quick historical question: Other than keeping the sun or bright lights out of you eyes, what is the significane of a feather visor?
Ok, I give up! I thought about rain, not being able to see ones eyes. Tell us please!
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Old 09-03-2004, 11:14 AM   #6
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It wasn't a quiz, it was a question :)

I have no idea. The only explanation I've heard was to keep someone from looking into your eyes. Maybe that's it, but I'd rather hear it from more than just one person.

Personally, I am inclined to think that it really doesn't have a meaning and just came about as a fad that people thought looked cool. Granted, some do look really cool. But, I doubt it has historical roots.

If I'm wrong and it does have meaning, that's cool too...what is it? I'm not the only one curious.
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Old 09-03-2004, 11:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunbursthonor
ok,

how do i make a visor and should i make it out of turkey tail feather or turkey wing feathers? all comments and advice are greatley appreciated.
thx,
mike
____

mike:

I have never seen a turkey wing visor. Really, I can't imagine what it would look like!

If you have access to an eagle tail, use it instead. . .




but make sure the eagle is dead before you put it on your head!

*L

j/k
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Old 09-07-2004, 04:12 AM   #8
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I was told the visor represents the covering of ones face for protection when going into battle.
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Old 09-07-2004, 08:45 AM   #9
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Which tribe believes this way?

Also, if this is the case, why weren't they worn historically?
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:14 AM   #10
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I'm interested if someone has info on this. I've been asking about it the last couple of weeks. A person of one tribe told be "we don't wear visors" so it got me to thinking.. which tribes do wear them? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mato Winyan
I'm interested if someone has info on this. I've been asking about it the last couple of weeks. A person of one tribe told be "we don't wear visors" so it got me to thinking.. which tribes do wear them? Inquiring minds want to know!
The first people to wear the tail of a bird over their face in my tribe were contraries. A long time ago, those guys they thought wearing the rear end of a bird over your face was high comedy. I tend to agree :D

Nowadays, I hear that the joke is considered even better because non-clowns are wearing tails over their faces too. someone once said that this is probably the best joke ever played - right up there with dancers wearing raggy ribbons for fringe. I heard one woman in SoDak say that this was proof the whole Indian world has gone backwards - which really explains quite a lot of things that I've seen going on as an aboriginal health and wellness worker.

So there ya go, a historical version of the visor's traditional origins in one tribe.

Singerdad: GO VIKES! :D
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:57 AM   #12
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Well, visors should DEFINATELY be made out of TAILFEATHERS. and if you do use wing feathers do not use the spikes, Dont laugh i seen it. I agree with the above, Turkey feathers dont look quite right, and hawk feathers dont look quite rite on an adult either. Eagle feathers do look the best, doesnt have to be black and white though but they do look the sharpest, ive seen spotted and bald that look pretty good. If your have troubles finding eagle feathers, perhaps I could help you out,...see what u have to trade, after all we are indians ennit we barter :chief:

oh yeah, making them, ive seen a guitar string like a g-string, no not your womans underwear, thread through them, this keeps them somwhat stiff, and holds up pretty good, oh yeah spaced with appropriate beads.

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Old 09-07-2004, 12:34 PM   #13
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ok,
So you take and put a "G"-string through the quill? How about this, I thought that i might make my visor with 7 feathers(one for each clan in the cherokee nation) and have 6 turkey wing feathers and the middle feather would be a turkey tail feather(the tail feather would represent the clan that i belong to which is the deer clan). All comments are appreciated greatly.
thx,
mike
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Old 09-07-2004, 08:23 PM   #14
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Singerdad, that is what was told to me this weekend when I asked what the visor represented. I have absolutely no reason to doubt the person who told me this information, so I passed it along here.

Sunburst, I have seen a couple turkey feather visors and no offense they looked horrible. One was tail feathers and they were about 24" long feathers sticking out from the base of the roach. I have no idea how the kid could see where he was going. The wing feathers looked a little better but not much. But maybe you can get them to work for you. Another option you have since it seems you don't want or can't have eagle feathers is to buy hand painted feathers or dyed feathers from some place like Nocbay or Crazycrow. If you notice everyone basically has the same opinion on visors. Some of the people giving advice have been doing this for a long time. Others of us are still learning and just trying to pass along a few tips and suggestions.
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Old 09-08-2004, 09:09 AM   #15
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That's cool, but what tribe was this person? I'm just trying to figure out, as are a lot of others, if this is a new item or a new twist on an older item. I've never heard of any item like this being worn historically by any of the plains tribes.

As for the turkey feathers, I'd forget them...you won't get the look you're seeking.
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
I've never heard of any item like this being worn historically by any of the plains tribes.
In all seriousness & truth - this is because the old time tail visor comes from the woodlands. It's tough, but the world doesnt start and stop with the plains;)

:DGo Woodlands!:D
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sookout sh'nob
In all seriousness & truth - this is because the old time tail visor comes from the woodlands. It's tough, but the world doesnt start and stop with the plains;)

:DGo Woodlands!:D
You're right, the world doesn't start and stop with the plains, but the Omaha dance started there...and that's what spawned traditional dancing as we know it today. When I say historical, I am referring to historical items worn by those Omaha grass dancers.

So, Ojibways started the tail visors? This is interesting since the first ones I ever saw were on dancers from Oklahoma. Were Ojibway dancers wearing these visors at pow wows or is it an item worn for tribal gatherings? Reason I'm asking is I'm curious how this item came to be worn at pow wows and why?
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Old 09-15-2004, 05:13 PM   #18
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Talking

They probably got started at powwows cause they look sharp with the right outfit, same as with epaulets, I don't think those are tradish....
Don't want to dash people's ideals, but the roach is an eastern woodland thing, too! Them big feather headdresses is a little bit of a hassle in the woods!
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:15 PM   #19
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I just learned from an old Miami friend that the visor was started by the Sac/Fox in the late 50's to early 60's. Basically it was their version of a mop top that was basically only used for dancing in powows.
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:41 PM   #20
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visor ?

how would you go about attaching the visor to the roach though? would you try and tie it to the base, or the strings or hair holding on your head?
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