[GoodDay]

Just would like to know what everyone's explaination of the origin of fancy shawl is?

[Full moon night]

Hello.
I belive that the origine of the fancy shawl dance is the moment where a girl become a woman: I explain:
the girl who is represented by a "A larva of butterfly " becom a woman who is represented by the butterfly . The shawl represent The wings of the butterfly and when they dance: girls move their arms and they seem to be butterfly.
Bye
Valérie

[Sahnish]

Originally posted by CEM:
I've been told that in the 1940's or 50's, women wanted to dance fancy like the men. At first, women wore the same outfits, double bustles, and all, as the men. I've seen pictures of women in men's outfits in Oklahoma around that time. The outfits changed after that.

CEM

Hey CEM:
Is the rest of the story where the women beat the men all the time so the men made them have their own catergory and it became Fancy Shawl?

[lngfthr]

:D Goot one, Sahnish! LOL...

I've said this elsewhere before but I suppose I'll say it again. The butterfly story doesn't fit for the origin. It's kind of a neat story now but when women's fancy first came around, they didn't look like, or dance like, the fancy shawl dancers of today (all colorful like butterflies). They were more like moths. LOL...pretty plain.

I've never heard of the bustle story either. The way I've heard it up here in the Northern Plains, it started when the women went from dancing in one spot (traditional) to dancing in a circle. Then some of them added a little "bounce" and "kick" and wearing of shawls - and scandalized the pow-wow audiences! It just evolved from that into what it is today. Not quite as pretty a story but more realistic.

[Sahnish]

Hey Lngfthr;
I acutally heard that bustle story, complete with the women always beating the men so they made them have their own catergory, that was on the internet tho. I am also guessing that was a woman telling that story. lol.

You all best listen to Lngfthr, She use to be queen of the Moths!! :D :D

[GoodDay]

well as far as I know, The fancy shawl did not come from the butterfly. It just evolved from all the womens dances.

[lightningflash]

The story I was told was that the dance is about a butterfly (larvae) who loses her mate - she goes into her cocoon to mourn her loss and comes out a beautiful butterfly. It came from the northern plains...

[CEM]

I've been told that in the 1940's or 50's, women wanted to dance fancy like the men. At first, women wore the same outfits, double bustles, and all, as the men. I've seen pictures of women in men's outfits in Oklahoma around that time. The outfits changed after that.

CEM

[lngfthr]

>>I acutally heard that bustle story, complete with the women always beating the men so they made them have their own catergory..<<

Yeah, well, geez, that kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?? LOL... Just kidding, guys.

>>You all best listen to Lngfthr, She use to be queen of the Moths!!<<

Yeah, I used to wear the pow-wow equivalent of high-waters, horn-rimmed glasses and a pocket protector! LOL...

"Don't look at the light! Don't look at the light!"
"I can't help it! It's so beautiful!"
ZZZZDDDTTTTTT!!!!!!

-Moth getting zapped in "A Bug's Life"

[SDfancy shawl]

This is the first time I have logged on to this site. I do know that shawl dancing did not orignate from the butterfly. Shawl dancing started after world war 2 and I believe someone else has addressed this issue once before on this page. Yes there were women who wore men's fancy outfits and they did beat out the men many times over. I remember seeing Jojo Lane and Rose Ann Crows Flies High outdance and beat the men in the men's contest. What I remember the most are the shawl dancers from North and South Dakota. Women such as Julie Roach, Delores Hayes, Mert Howard, Gladys Jefferson, Rita Metcalf, Hall sisters, Thompson sisters and I could go on and on and list shawl dancers since the late 50's but I do know that the butterfly theory isn't correct. Ask any of the othe older shawl dancers that are out there and they will give the correct history of shawl dancing. Shawl dancing isn't about going into mourning and emerging but it's about what you feel.

[Indian Instigator]

Glad someones giving it to you straight. The butterfly story is just a romanticized version that you hear alot, but then we are talking about powwows, and we all know how some folks romanitcize things. Just imagine the uproar when these ladies started kicking it up! Boy would powwows.com have been rockin then!