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Old 09-26-2005, 02:37 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Incorrectly folded shawls!!!

I've thought about this subject for many years, the reason I'm just now complaining about it is because I don't want to seem like a nutcase! I get really bothered visually when I see a traditional lady dancer with her shawl folded bad, or when she has it over her arm backwards. Does anyone else? I wonder sometimes if this is a bit of OCD, or if I'm just thinking to myself that the shawl being worn wrong makes the dance outfit look "off." If you look through the photo gallery, you see plenty that are not worn right. Is it because people don't know any better, or are they late getting ready, or don't they care?
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Old 09-26-2005, 02:51 PM   #2
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Do tell us "step by step", the shawl protocol. The folds, everything.

I'll relate it to my wife.

That oughta straighten out all them tradish dancers.
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Old 09-26-2005, 03:16 PM   #3
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i know what you mean - my girls do it sometimes but they are just kids but i've seen grown ladies out there with their shawls "backwards".

another thing that bothers me is when ladies wear their beaded leggings backwards - zipper in back or that little part that is for the top part of your foot in the back of the leg. or even their feathers/plumes backwards. or even their jingle dresses backwards - zipper in back. my sister makes dresses and i've seem some girls wear them backwards. my sister usually goes over and tells them its backwards - if she's there.

i've gone one time to tell this one girl (late teens/early twenties when she first started dancing) from our area that her plumes were on backwards and all she said was "oohhh" and kept dancing like that all day. you could obviously see they were backwards too. other people were pointing at her. she didn't change them either. so i don't know maybe some women just don't know or just don't care ...
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Old 09-26-2005, 03:37 PM   #4
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I am a traditional dancer, and am getting back into things. Its hard to keep up when your in the military. My little one is getting old enough now, but I have no idea about the female dress. Please help!!!!!
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Old 09-26-2005, 06:24 PM   #5
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I have seen this also and yes get bothered by it as well!!!
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:54 PM   #6
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You mean like when the fringe is hangin by their hand? That bugs me too... I like to fold mine where you don't see any of the side fringe... looks cleaner that way imo.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:43 AM   #7
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Shawl Debate

I believe that yes some know better and yet they still wear them wrong wich I feal is sad because are our ladies forgeting the whole reason we carry our swawls and should be showing respect for our shawl not to mention if that shawl was a gift most of my shawls were gifts and i think of those people who gave me these beautiful works of art and the time they put into them what would they think if they saw me not takeing care of their gift? I know what I would be thinking "Im not sewing for them again if they cant take care of their thinngs" Now as far as folding I like to pin mine in place and when its folded over my arm the pins are towards my side cant see them at all as far AS I know im sure one of my sistrs would of"fixed me" and I too like the "Neat" sides no fringe hanging out from the sides. What I like about the pinning is when im head-lady dancer when im neaded I grab my shawl and off I go ,no standing there folding when I should be shaking hands.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:48 AM   #8
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The way I was shown was to fold your shawl in thirds. The fringe at your wrist, but underneath one of the folds.
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Old 09-27-2005, 12:31 PM   #9
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Thats the way that I was taught to hold my shawl.
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Old 09-27-2005, 11:26 PM   #10
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Now that I think about it the other "shawl issue" I have is when you see a traditional dancer with her OLD contest number still pinned to her shawl. It's obvious by all the wrinkles, curled edges, and has the name of some other powwow on it. It's like the people that will drive a car around awhile with the sticker still on it, pretty tacky enit?
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Old 09-28-2005, 10:16 AM   #11
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I hide my fringes on the inside of the middle of my arm and safety pin the hell out of it. I still have some adjustment to do every time I put it on but it is minimal compared to completely re-folding it every time. I recently made a "cheater" shawl that is really very user friendly and looks great, I really like the fact it hangs perfect everytime and it is alot lighter and cooler to dance with then my others.
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Old 09-28-2005, 09:20 PM   #12
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so what do ya'll think about shawls made with ribbon? you know what i mean? it looks really thin and only has ribbon on the bottom, well of course the design too.
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:45 AM   #13
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Ribbon for shawls?

Do you mean ribbon for the main body of the shawl? or ribbon for fringe? I dont mind it for fringe,but im thinking I mite not like it for making a shawl the reason is I like my shawls to be a certain weight cause I think it lay's & moves better ,Im sure they are pretty though its just my opp.
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:48 PM   #14
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Ribbon is OK, but I prefer the chainette on a traditional shawl.
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:19 AM   #15
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Talking Shawl?!

Okay, okay...let me get this straight. You all are saying that by having your fringes showing next to your wrist is wrong? Just have fringe on the bottom showing? Okay, well I have been dancing for over 20 yrs (competition) and I was told to have your shawl folded where your fringe is next to wrist and and the bottom, so it will flare a little and complement your buckskin fringes. This is how everyone that I know who dances professionaly has their shawls....but yet again, I know that Southern dancers just like have their fringes show on the bottom. It may be nice if u all can clarify what style your talking about. So those of us reading this won't be puzzeled.

Oh, and in response to those that talk about numbers being left on and looking tacky,...well I guess it depends, because sometimes you attend a powwow with really 'cheap' paper numbers that tear and its nice to have something sturdier to pin it on so it won't tear. I try to keep my duct tape handy though so I won't have to do that. Tape the back of the paper number where you pin and it won't tear.
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Old 09-30-2005, 09:17 AM   #16
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Smile

I'm with ndngirl_19 on this one. I also have dancing for awhile (34 years) and have always worn my shawl with the fringe on the wrist. My shawls are folded in thirds, always pinned, with the fringe on the wrists. I do have a couple of shawls that are folded differently due to the design on the applique strip. The cheater shawls are very pretty, but just not for me. (personal opinion) I am a cloth dancer, not a buckskin dancer. Maybe that's the difference.

Back in the 80's, it was cool when you left your number on your dance clothes. Everyone knew what powwow you had been to last. Times have changed.

Good thread.

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Old 09-30-2005, 10:11 AM   #17
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Red face

I have been dancing since the late 1960's and have never heard of a proper way to fold a shawl. It all depended on the design and way you wanted the fringe to show. No points were taken off for a shawl....I thought we were all judged on dancing ability (ya right) and then the showiness of the outfit? Looks like dance contest have turned more into a fashion statement or show than true ability to dance.
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Old 09-30-2005, 10:43 AM   #18
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I fold mostly any way that will compliment

I fold my shawls in a way that will compliment the shawl my newst shawl is still kind of stiff it has the applique going across the bottom it has that tear away stuff and stablizer in it so its a bit stiff so I fold that one where the fringe is at my wrist but my other ones have the applique running down from my wrist to the bottom of the shawl so i do fold them different but ive not noticed my fringe not moveing as well at least nothing has ever been said to me in my 33yrs of dancing comp or other wise .and i have been kown to place hre and there.Oh and im southern cloth.
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Old 09-30-2005, 03:42 PM   #19
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I've been dancing since I was 3 yrs. old, that was thirty-some years ago. I suppose some of you could have been taught to place a shawl across your arm differently than I was taught. When I go back home or dance around people from my area, I expect them to know the way I was taught by my grand-mother. It still bothers my eye to see a shawl on the arm backwards, or not folded correctly, and by the way I don't do competition powwows either. Just because I believe you should look your very best when entering the circle (as I was taught) doesn't mean I'm trying to impress anyone other than my creator. My kids and I have made a habit to visually check each others dance outfits right before we are to dance, so that we are dressed correctly. I've always tried to instill in them the same teachings and values that my grandmother would tell me and her other grandchildren before, during and after dancing.
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:24 PM   #20
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by WocusWoman
I've been dancing since I was 3 yrs. old, that was thirty-some years ago. I suppose some of you could have been taught to place a shawl across your arm differently than I was taught. When I go back home or dance around people from my area, I expect them to know the way I was taught by my grand-mother. It still bothers my eye to see a shawl on the arm backwards, or not folded correctly, and by the way I don't do competition powwows either. Just because I believe you should look your very best when entering the circle (as I was taught) doesn't mean I'm trying to impress anyone other than my creator. My kids and I have made a habit to visually check each others dance outfits right before we are to dance, so that we are dressed correctly. I've always tried to instill in them the same teachings and values that my grandmother would tell me and her other grandchildren before, during and after dancing.
SO then you really should say that this is a style that 'you' were taught, and decided to share it. Cause I was taught by my mother & grandmother too. There is no backwards or right way to hold your shawl. In actuality, a shawl should be held over you shoulders if you want to wear it the right way.
This item was taken from the spanish and this is something that we "Indians" have adapted.

You really shouldn't try to impose your ways on others, because everyone comes from different tribes and families where their ways are different. That's nice your grandmother taught you this way, but don't you think everyone else's grandmother taught them a certain way to dress and hold themselves when dancing too? My ancestors and family were and are all dancers and we are proud of who we are, but yet we try to remain humble. This was what I was told.

When I see someone dressed or dancing differently, I appreciate their style, because without those that implimate change, we wouldn't have beads, ribbons, cotton, etc...that we use on our outfits today.
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