[Myth]

Is anyone familiar with the Afrocentrist movement? I been seeing a lot of videos about them on youtube lately, they keep claiming that they are really NDN and that the NDNs descend from the Israelites and are the true Jews while claiming the modern Jews are some sort of Turkic people from Russia?

Here is an example of video

YouTube - The Northern Tribes of Yisra'el

There was another user called Quietbuck who had millions of views on his video and claimed the same thing.

Why all these cults lately?

[Toolbox]

There was something on TV a few months ago (History Channel maybe) about these people claiming to be Cherokee (I think), but were descendants of Israelites. When they ran a DNA test on many members they found not one marker, or allele, to indicate ndn blood at all, not even by the lowest percentage that the test is sensitive to, which in of itself is very low.

Not sure about the African Americans clamining to be ndn, it is entirely possible though given the fact that they slaves and run aways and some freed men in the same area of the south during the relocation periods.

[RDNKJ]

Originally Posted by Myth

Is anyone familiar with the Afrocentrist movement? I been seeing a lot of videos about them on youtube lately, they keep claiming that they are really NDN and that the NDNs descend from the Israelites and are the true Jews while claiming the modern Jews are some sort of Turkic people from Russia?

Here is an example of video

YouTube - The Northern Tribes of Yisra'el

There was another user called Quietbuck who had millions of views on his video and claimed the same thing.

Why all these cults lately?

These people are offensive on so many different levels. I could tolerate them a little better if they weren't also posting things like "the Synagogue of Satan," and declaring that the current Jewish population aren't really Jews!

Feh!

[Myth]

Originally Posted by RDNKJ

These people are offensive on so many different levels. I could tolerate them a little better if they weren't also posting things like "the Synagogue of Satan," and declaring that the current Jewish population aren't really Jews!

Feh!

It's becoming a very serious issue unfortunately, if you go on paltalk, there are many rooms open now where some Christians are also using replacement theology claiming and replacing themselves as Israelites and claiming they are also Cherokee ancestry. I know the theory sounds crazy but I know Jewish people and I haven't met one Jew who thinks Cherokee are related to them and are actually pretty upset with the idea someone is stealing their identity. Most Jews I know are Mizrahi and resemble the Levantine Arab population in appearance.

My girlfriends Cherokee and I suppose you could say she has a psuedo-mongoloid look with dark skin, hair and eyes and ironically people think shes some sort of central Asian, i've had people think she's some sort of Italian/Asian mix and she gets pretty irritated about it. I guess it's kind of like how people who are opposed to Mexicans living in America think they are related to the Spanish *sigh*.

[yaahl]

This theory/claim about the 13th missing tribe/Cherokee/Israelite seems to recycle every 10-15 years. It's about right on cue for this go round. (although with the advent of the internet and its availability to every nutbar and knuckle dragging neanderthal the time periods seem to be getting shorter in between the rise of the latest and greatest theory of the Cherokee are Jewish theories)

*places tin hat on head* There are numerous theories and hypothesis that recycle over and over again about Indigenous people of the Americas. My own theory is that these wild claims and "discoveries" occur to cause division in the religious/scientific/political worlds to displace the indigenous land claims. If there is just one shred of doubt that we were not here from *the big bang*, then any claim stands to lose on the balance of probabilities to its legitimacy. During many of the land claim arguments, there is always the trotting out of one or two witnesses/experts that attest to the migration of peoples or some such "new theory" to indicate that the group seeking the claim really aren't from that neighbourhood.

Anyway, my tin hat has been put away for now...

[Myth]

Originally Posted by yaahl

This theory/claim about the 13th missing tribe/Cherokee/Israelite seems to recycle every 10-15 years. It's about right on cue for this go round. (although with the advent of the internet and its availability to every nutbar and knuckle dragging neanderthal the time periods seem to be getting shorter in between the rise of the latest and greatest theory of the Cherokee are Jewish theories)

*places tin hat on head* There are numerous theories and hypothesis that recycle over and over again about Indigenous people of the Americas. My own theory is that these wild claims and "discoveries" occur to cause division in the religious/scientific/political worlds to displace the indigenous land claims. If there is just one shred of doubt that we were not here from *the big bang*, then any claim stands to lose on the balance of probabilities to its legitimacy. During many of the land claim arguments, there is always the trotting out of one or two witnesses/experts that attest to the migration of peoples or some such "new theory" to indicate that the group seeking the claim really aren't from that neighbourhood.

Anyway, my tin hat has been put away for now...

I've never heard any Jewish claim this before, mainly Mormons or afrocentrist movements. Jews state the mother must be Jewish for someone to be Jewish.

[yaahl]

Originally Posted by Myth

I've never heard any Jewish claim this before, mainly Mormons or afrocentrist movements. Jews state the mother must be Jewish for someone to be Jewish.

Please don't misunderstand, it is not the Jewish people who make these claims, it usually is some nutbar group or "scientist" that rediscovers the theory. Way back in 1976, an author, Arthur Koestler, came up with one theory, the Thirteenth Tribe, that the Russian Jews tribe were actually Khazars and not descendants of the Israelites. From there, extrapolations of that ideal had blossomed into further ideas and theories. Look up the spinning rainbow prophesy... that's one of my favourite nutbar ones. The Mormons brought up the idea of the relationship between Jewish people and native way back in 1966 - just in time for the Flower Power folks to grab onto it.

And yes, I'm well aware of the matrilineal position of Jewish people.. same as most First Nations - which contradicted the European's patriarchal views. The Canadian Indian Act of 1878 is a prime example of that.

[neling4]

I wasn't going to post here, but now I can't resist.

Years ago, I was reading a label on...I think it was an apple juice bottle. It said the apple juice was "kosher". My supervisor was standing nearby when I said,

"My apple juice is kosher!"

She said,

"Are you Jewish?"

I said I was, and I let her think that for several days.

That was a first for me. I guess only ndns think I look like an ndn. It's usually, "Are you Chinese?", "Are you Japanese?", or my all-time favorite, "You look like a Tai."

[xTekno]

I was at a powwow once with lots of non-natives. When the MC annouced that all royalty and princesses register so that they can be recognized and acknowledged, a group of non-natives came over to me (since I had the sound equipment) and asked where they can sign up this elderly lady.

They explained in detail that she was a fifth generation descendent of a Cherokee Princess and her name was Misty Dawn. I was amazed at how sincere they were in their belief so I sent them over to the registration desk. I told them that she may be called to be part of the processional of dancers during grand entry and to be ready if they do!

Later, I talked with the MC and told him that there may be someone odd in the royalty lineup, but that we were in a equal-opportunity environment.

Lo and behold, Misty Dawn came in with the rest of the princesses and it was so hilarious to hear her claim as a fifth generation Cherokee Princess during the introductions! I should've taken a picture!

[Myth]

Originally Posted by Ta'neeszahnii Techno

I was at a powwow once with lots of non-natives. When the MC annouced that all royalty and princesses register so that they can be recognized and acknowledged, a group of non-natives came over to me (since I had the sound equipment) and asked where they can sign up this elderly lady.

They explained in detail that she was a fifth generation descendent of a Cherokee Princess and her name was Misty Dawn. I was amazed at how sincere they were in their belief so I sent them over to the registration desk. I told them that she may be called to be part of the processional of dancers during grand entry and to be ready if they do!

Later, I talked with the MC and told him that there may be someone odd in the royalty lineup, but that we were in a equal-opportunity environment.

Lo and behold, Misty Dawn came in with the rest of the princesses and it was so hilarious to hear her claim as a fifth generation Cherokee Princess during the introductions! I should've taken a picture!

That does not surprise me, we have a lot of people at our work claim to be Cherokee and Irish background which I don't judge because i'm not going to say "okay your not Indian" or "oh your Indian", that's not my place to say, but I have noticed a trend with a lot of white Americans to say this, but cannot trace their family heritage back or pass the DNA tests. I think it is really strange that someone with blonde hair, blue eyes and nordic features would say this. Possible? I suppose it is just like that black couple that had a white child because recessive genes can sometimes dominate but the likelyhood isn't very common especially when most have been raised in the white anglo-saxon culture most of their lives.

We hear a lot of the church members claim this too or try to claim they have some Jewish blood from their great great grandfather. This is extremely confusing to see a European descent person claim they are Cherokee and then claim they are Israelite, it is very confusing because the two cultures are nothing alike.

I can't claim to be NDN background, I am Sephardic Jewish on my dads side who came from Syria and my mom is from Yakutia, Russia and is Siberian blood, she looks Asian. It gives me a weird look and sometimes people confuse me as Mexican and I try to explain that sometimes phenotypes can create similar appearances but doesn't mean your directly related to another group of people, I've noticed a lot of Turkic groups are also claiming Natives descend from them, but at this point, I think it's the other way around that Natives always were from Americas and maybe the other groups were the ones who split from that population.

While I can't say I am related or part of the Indians and gone through the same situation regarding human rights and suffering, I have noticed a weird similar tendency that other groups are obsessed with hijacking both identities and trying to mix the two together, I do not think our groups are related but I certainly respect and admire Indian culture and people for their will to survive while dealing with the modern issues of today that most people overlook.

[RDNKJ]

This is going to be a little difficult to write without it sounding like I'm bashing Christians. This is not my intent. I'm not attempting to ascribe beliefs/actions to Christians (or any ethnic/racial/religious/etc. group) as a whole.


I actually wasn't aware of the Afrocentrist version of this claim. More often, I have come across it as a tenet of some Christianity-based White supremacist groups. My take on that movement is that they cannot reconcile their hatred of Jews with their Christian beliefs. Even if they believe that the old covenant is no longer valid, they cannot escape the fact that literature they themselves consider holy indicates a special relationship between the Jews and God. The work-around solution is to deny that the objects of their hatred are Jews in the first place. "See, God? We don't hate Your Chosen People; we just hate these imposters. 'Cause they're not really Jews, ya know?"


Regardless of the particular slant of these types of theories, imo, they all stem from a very deep-seated racism. Although the specific target of the racism will vary depending on the details.

[RDNKJ]

Originally Posted by yaahl

*places tin hat on head* There are numerous theories and hypothesis that recycle over and over again about Indigenous people of the Americas. My own theory is that these wild claims and "discoveries" occur to cause division in the religious/scientific/political worlds to displace the indigenous land claims. If there is just one shred of doubt that we were not here from *the big bang*, then any claim stands to lose on the balance of probabilities to its legitimacy. During many of the land claim arguments, there is always the trotting out of one or two witnesses/experts that attest to the migration of peoples or some such "new theory" to indicate that the group seeking the claim really aren't from that neighbourhood.

Anyway, my tin hat has been put away for now...

I was gonna make the same point - but you said it better than I could!

[Toolbox]

RD, you also forgot to add that those supremacist groups overlook the fact that Jesus was technically a Jew himself.

[RDNKJ]

Originally Posted by Myth

Most Jews I know are Mizrahi and resemble the Levantine Arab population in appearance.

My people are Ashkenazi, so we're about as European-looking as they come!

Originally Posted by Myth

...but I have noticed a trend with a lot of white Americans to say this, but cannot trace their family heritage back or pass the DNA tests. I think it is really strange that someone with blonde hair, blue eyes and nordic features would say this. Possible? I suppose it is just like that black couple that had a white child because recessive genes can sometimes dominate but the likelyhood isn't very common especially when most have been raised in the white anglo-saxon culture most of their lives.

Again, I'm treading carefully. No disrespect, but for the most part I don't think the recessive gene argument is relevant. Lots of people in this country have some NDN ancestry. That doesn't necessarily make them NDNs. And the fact that someone might be blonde-haired/blue-eyed, doesn't mean they aren't NDNs. Not all tribes use blood quantum to determine membership. My point being, be careful before you judge by physical appearance.

Originally Posted by Myth

We hear a lot of the church members claim this too or try to claim they have some Jewish blood from their great great grandfather. This is extremely confusing to see a European descent person claim they are Cherokee and then claim they are Israelite, it is very confusing because the two cultures are nothing alike.

And they may very well be telling the truth that their g-g-grandfather was Jewish. But, as you know, if their mama wasn't a Jew, neither are they unless they convert. It's an interesting geneological piece of trivia, nothing more.

It isn't that difficult to cherry-pick customs from various American indigenous nations and "match 'em up" with cherry-picked Jewish customs. Interesting, and sometimes fun, but in the end meaningless.

Originally Posted by Myth

...I have noticed a weird similar tendency that other groups are obsessed with hijacking both identities and trying to mix the two together...

I've noticed that tendency, too. It's very puzzling to me.

[kgirl7]

I don't know if you can call them Afrocentrists...I remember meeting one woman who believed this and when someone mentioned her African ancestors she got really mad and said "I AM NOT AFRICAN! I AM INDIAN!". I've also encountered sites which state that they have no African ancestry but they are the original people of the Americas. It's a bit sad really because it stems from people that have such a strong need to belong and have a culture. But like yaahl said it comes in cycles.

[Myth]

Originally Posted by kgirl7

I don't know if you can call them Afrocentrists...I remember meeting one woman who believed this and when someone mentioned her African ancestors she got really mad and said "I AM NOT AFRICAN! I AM INDIAN!". I've also encountered sites which state that they have no African ancestry but they are the original people of the Americas. It's a bit sad really because it stems from people that have such a strong need to belong and have a culture. But like yaahl said it comes in cycles.

I think a lot of it stems from the idea that many of the African Americans descended from slaves and adopted the names of their slave owners, no longer had a language of their own let alone any information on which area of Africa they originated from, so the idea was to try to pretend to be of this great civilization and culture in hopes that they could feel important.

Sad case.