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Old 02-20-2011, 08:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
What selfless career could make a big difference?
Personal opinion?

NONE.

In fact, the very idea that you can do something selfless for Indian Country -- and come out ahead -- seems ridiculous to me.

Why?

Because it validates the very idea that there exists something for nothing.

THAT'S CRAP.

The query should be, "What can I do selfish for Indian Country, that shows that the generally aspired to way of life is backward, ineffectual, self-limiting, that of a PET, and doomed to extinction?"

You want to help a Native community? Show them a novel manner in which to grow and be personally successful. (In a nutshell, "Health care? Counselors? Social work? Something in Psychology?," et al, isn't it: they're enablers and aren't respected because "buy in" is LOW.)

You want to help your community? Be successful on your own terms.

That's leadership.

If the rabble has no desire to follow, learn or grow? SCREW 'EM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
A lot of my Native friends who are in college are majoring in American Indian Studies.

But my question is -- what kind of job can you get with this major ? (bachelors degree)

Everyone wants to help their community (which is AMAZING), but wouldn't it be wiser to minor in AIS and major in something like social work, anthropology, drug and alcohol counseling, or something particular like that to directly help?

Just picking everyone's brain on what they think about the issue, and what you think the best idea is.
I think the courses in American Indian Studies and Native Studies would help the Native First Nation people to get the help they need if you graduate with a BA. Many First Nations (Canada) and Reservations (USA) need people like you and others to help them work along with Natives. There might be some jobs outside of the Reserve that would need help like the museum about the history of our people from many ions ago. You just have to look around to find a job like that. Good luck.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
You want to help your community? Be successful on your own terms.

That's leadership.
Being successful in marine biology isn't helping the community.
Being a pharmacist isn't helping the community.

Maybe it shows leadership by saying, "Hey look! If I can be successful, so can you!" -- But obviously that isn't working or we wouldn't have such a high drop out rate on some reservations.

However, doing things that directly help a person's life is what I'm looking for. Helping others make a positive step forward is what I'm looking for.

Please, excuse me for being concerned with everyone's well being! I wasn't aware that trying to help others was crap. If more people cared, the world would be a different place.


I don't appreciate the attitude. That was extremely helpful. Thanks!
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:36 PM   #44
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I think the courses in American Indian Studies and Native Studies would help the Native First Nation people to get the help they need if you graduate with a BA. Many First Nations (Canada) and Reservations (USA) need people like you and others to help them work along with Natives. There might be some jobs outside of the Reserve that would need help like the museum about the history of our people from many ions ago. You just have to look around to find a job like that. Good luck.
Thanks so much for the help. I'm considering double majoring in AIS and something else that would compliment it. Its great to get everyone's insight on the subject.

Also, thanks for the advice to look up these jobs. I'm surprised I didn't think of that. Finding those jobs online and looking at the requirements would be the perfect idea. Thank you again!!
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:06 PM   #45
Ugh. As. If.
 
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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
Being successful in marine biology isn't helping the community.
Being a pharmacist isn't helping the community.

Maybe it shows leadership by saying, "Hey look! If I can be successful, so can you!" -- But obviously that isn't working or we wouldn't have such a high drop out rate on some reservations.

However, doing things that directly help a person's life is what I'm looking for. Helping others make a positive step forward is what I'm looking for.

Please, excuse me for being concerned with everyone's well being! I wasn't aware that trying to help others was crap. If more people cared, the world would be a different place.


I don't appreciate the attitude. That was extremely helpful. Thanks!
zeke is someone who has completed the course of studies that you are asking for input on, that being said he can be extremely helpful if you are willing to listen. his insights do not have a 'tell people what they want to hear' tone, but he does speak plainly. and if there is a point he made or a view he presented that you don't understand or agree with, why don't you ask him to elaborate?

like joe's dad said, this is a good thread. you ask solid questions and you will get solid answers.
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Grits & Beans View Post
zeke is someone who has completed the course of studies that you are asking for input on, that being said he can be extremely helpful if you are willing to listen. his insights do not have a 'tell people what they want to hear' tone, but he does speak plainly. and if there is a point he made or a view he presented that you don't understand or agree with, why don't you ask him to elaborate?

like joe's dad said, this is a good thread. you ask solid questions and you will get solid answers.
Sorry, I didn't see that he had a degree in AIS. I appreciate advice, but I don't respond well to such an abrasive tone.

Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate everyone's constructive responses.

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Well, I possess an undergraduate degree in Criminal Justice and an advanced degree in Public Administration
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:50 PM   #47
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Being successful in marine biology isn't helping the community.
Being a pharmacist isn't helping the community.
Really?

I would hazard a guess that you just -- permanently -- lifted an entire generation from future family poverty, raised the mean localized IQ, placed targeted youth (your kids!) in a position to see/realize worldly opportunities, and generated regional social impact far beyond self.

And, I assure you, this does work for nuclear families.

Where it doesn't work, for the the general Native public, is where "Health care? Counselors? Social work? Something in Psychology?" types, or those who rely solely on AIS studies degrees, spend their time pretending that maintaining the ability to produce a center seam moccasin is as important for future generations as (for example) learning Spanish.

I'd, readily, put that garbage validation under the common heading of SCREW 'EM.

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I wasn't aware that trying to help others was crap.
It's not, if what you're espousing will actually help others...

Abrasive? You asked a question and, for me, that was a rather polite opinion. What makes you upset is that I didn't agree with your Utopian vision.

You want some real life advice? Get used to that.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:07 PM   #48
Ugh. As. If.
 
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Sorry, I didn't see that he had a degree in AIS.
i didn't see that he had a degree in ais, either, and clearly did not hint as such. in any case, it seems that you had drawn your own conclusion when ais is concerned:

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You hit the nail on the head. Doesn't seem like a major in AIS would get you very far and isn't very specific. Good intentions, but bad in practical use.
that being said, i did and still do say that he has completed the courses of studies that you are asking for input on. you want specifics and mention practical use, zeke can be very helpful and if there is something he said that you do not understand or agree with, i'm sure he will elaborate if you ask him.

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Well, I possess an undergraduate degree in Criminal Justice and an advanced degree in Public Administration -- with requisite experience -- meaning I am qualified to do a great many things in this area.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:42 PM   #49
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Really?

I would hazard a guess that you just -- permanently -- lifted an entire generation from future family poverty, raised the mean localized IQ, placed targeted youth (your kids!) in a position to see/realize worldly opportunities, and generated regional social impact far beyond self.

And, I assure you, this does work for nuclear families.

Where it doesn't work, for the the general Native public, is where "Health care? Counselors? Social work? Something in Psychology?" types, or those who rely solely on AIS studies degrees, spend their time pretending that maintaining the ability to produce a center seam moccasin is as important for future generations as (for example) learning Spanish.

I'd, readily, put that garbage validation under the common heading of SCREW 'EM.



It's not, if what you're espousing will actually help others...

Abrasive? You asked a question and, for me, that was a rather polite opinion. What makes you upset is that I didn't agree with your Utopian vision.

You want some real life advice? Get used to that.
Excuse me, but I've been raised on the idea that you should give everyone respect.
And the way you're talking to me isn't respectful.

The fact that you're under the impression that you've "upset" me is laughable. (Why would I get upset? Because I'm a woman who doesn't have your "approval"?)

I don't care that you agree with me. Believe me. Someone who believes health care professionals are 'enablers and disrespected' isn't someone I need approval from.

"You want some real advice?" No, I don't.
I'm no longer interested in your opinion on the subject. So please don't indulge yourself with the idea that I want your opinion or what you call "advice". Because you haven't been giving me advice. You've been telling me that what I want to do is wrong, and that isn't what I asked for.

Rather than helping someone who is "young and impressionable", you've been pounding your chest, stroking your own ego.


I'm sure that being a positive role-model is extremely influential inside a family. But me getting a degree in something that will never benefit the community is pointless to me. Going to school for something like computer programming isn't going to help anyone but myself. Agree with me or not, I don't care.


My Aunt works for IHS, so you've offended me by saying that those careers are garbage, that she is an enabler, and that she is helping community as much as learning Spanish.

I made this thread to hear advice, not to have my family's work disrespected.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:48 PM   #50
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i didn't see that he had a degree in ais, either, and clearly did not hint as such. in any case, it seems that you had drawn your own conclusion when ais is concerned:



that being said, i did and still do say that he has completed the courses of studies that you are asking for input on. you want specifics and mention practical use, zeke can be very helpful and if there is something he said that you do not understand or agree with, i'm sure he will elaborate if you ask him.
Sorry. My question is on how to directly help the Native community and how AIS can be applied to different careers.

I've only read that he completed courses in Criminal Justice and Public Administration, which isn't really answering my question.

I do sincerely appreciate the help, Grits & Beans. But those aren't really answering my question. I'm giving up on this thread, I'm sorry.

Maybe I just don't understand the way people are paraphrasing things.
I love hearing everyone's constrictive opinions on the subject, but I'm not interested in a conversation where I have to pointlessly defend myself.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:26 AM   #51
Ugh. As. If.
 
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you dont have to pointlessly defend yourself, silly

jus messin with u
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:53 AM   #52
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Excuse me, but I've been raised on the idea that you should give everyone respect.
And the way you're talking to me isn't respectful.
Truth is never disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
The fact that you're under the impression that you've "upset" me is laughable. (Why would I get upset? Because I'm a woman who doesn't have your "approval"?)
No, because you squeal like a stuck pig. As for being a woman, how would I know what you are? Besides, now, realizing you're someone who immediately infers sexism as weak defense to scrutiny.

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I don't care that you agree with me. Believe me. Someone who believes health care professionals are 'enablers and disrespected' isn't someone I need approval from.
So you believe that passing out condoms isn't tacit permission?

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"You want some real advice?" No, I don't.
I'm no longer interested in your opinion on the subject. So please don't indulge yourself with the idea that I want your opinion or what you call "advice". Because you haven't been giving me advice. You've been telling me that what I want to do is wrong, and that isn't what I asked for.
You asked for an opinion. YOU'RE GETTING ONE. If you have issues with that, perhaps you should specify that you don't want advice, you want a patronizing -- entitlement -- head pat.

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Rather than helping someone who is "young and impressionable", you've been pounding your chest, stroking your own ego.
By doing what? I don't recall mentioning much about me, beyond indicating no desire to be a Native police officer because cuffing relatives wouldn't be much fun. If you think that's ego, you're not just young and impressionable but easily threatened.

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I'm sure that being a positive role-model is extremely influential inside a family. But me getting a degree in something that will never benefit the community is pointless to me.
Then I do not suggest AIS.

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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
Going to school for something like computer programming isn't going to help anyone but myself.
Which, in the end, helps everyone.

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Agree with me or not, I don't care.
Oh, you care: or you wouldn't wail.

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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
My Aunt works for IHS, so you've offended me by saying that those careers are garbage, that she is an enabler, and that she is helping community as much as learning Spanish.
Actually, I implied that learning Spanish DOES help the community.

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Originally Posted by meashcrme View Post
I made this thread to hear advice, not to have my family's work disrespected.
Is your family's work as naive as you are?

I'm going to make this as simple as I can. You want "constructive" opinions? YOU'RE GETTING IT. If you want non-thinking or unquestioned validation, you're not only in the wrong place but are sure to be disappointed in how the world works: unless you're plan is to further the cause of "Health care? Counselors? Social work? Something in Psychology?" types who enable a system of ongoing entitlement.

If that's the case, by all means get an AIS degree and continue being a thin-skinned femi-Nazi (see above) who leaps to sexism and blames generational trauma (I presume) for all our foibles. We could use more folks to pass on the myth.

I realize you seem to believe that I am getting some sort of buzz out of this. I assure you, I am not. I'd just prefer that you think about this NOW as opposed to at 35-40 when -- like so many whom I know -- you look in a mirror and think, "S-H-I-T, I am the problem."

That's not a pretty thing.

Last edited by Zeke; 02-21-2011 at 01:07 AM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:00 AM   #53
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Sorry. My question is on how to directly help the Native community and how AIS can be applied to different careers.
In reading your post it seems like you are stuck on the AIS degree, if you don't know how it will tie in to the helping Native Communities, then for YOU, you might missing the mark. I would suggest that you follow your PASSION in selecting a degree that will fit your career choice and then tie it in to helping native communities.

I hope you're not one those wannabe people who are stuck on AIS - just becuz you believe/think it will give you any credibility regarding Indianness
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:06 AM   #54
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In reading your post it seems like you are stuck on the AIS degree, if you don't know how it will tie in to the helping Native Communities, then for YOU, you might missing the mark. I would suggest that you follow your PASSION in selecting a degree that will fit your career choice and then tie it in to helping native communities.
Wow. That's amazing.

You made my entire point in two sentences.

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Originally Posted by lbgood View Post
I hope you're not one those wannabe people who are stuck on AIS - just becuz you believe/think it will give you any credibility regarding Indianness
And went straight to the heart of one I was dancing around...

I must be losing my edge.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:08 AM   #55
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Wow. That's amazing.

You made my entire point in two sentences.



And went straight to the heart of one I was dancing around...

I must be losing my edge.

LOL
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:10 AM   #56
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I think Native studies programs have their place as an initial start in getting Indian kids into post secondary. I do have some issues with the numbers of non-native folks who take the programs and then consider themselves the resident expert on all things native (but that is another thread). I don't believe that it should be considered the end of one's education if you truly want to help your folks. I am a firm believer of gaining as much knowledge from as many sources as you can to be able to call yourself educated.

At one of the universities I attended, they developed a program to recruit, retain and graduate native students at a rate that was comparable to the national population... at that time we were hovering at around 5% of the general population but were attending universities at a rate of less than .5%. even less were completing their degrees.

The thing that came out of these early program development was that by the time most post secondary institutions came a knocking at career fairs and recruiting drives in the grades 11-12 level, most Indian kids had dropped out of school by grade 9. In order to reach young Indian kids to give them the idea of going on to post secondary the recruiters had to reach them by grade 7 if they were going to convince them to stay in school to head on to post secondary.

The graduation rates were just as low once the kid got to university so entire programs were developed to keep them studying and graduate. It's a sad day when the three native kids that started law school together and finished together were the first time the law program in over 50 years had seen that level of retention. I was one of those three kids. In the year ahead, ten students had started and only two graduated.

I can recall a conversation with my law prof on how I'd like to work on my folk's land claim and self government negotiations. The prof, who was a pretty cool dude, said.. "Why don't we see if you get past the first year and then graduate before you plan out your entire career." He knew the deplorable rates of graduation for native kids and his goal as an educator was to get me past first year. So to you, I'll say the same thing... how about you get past the first year and then when you are close to graduating you can look into what you want to do with your new found skills. It all becomes a moot point if you don't finish.

Here's something else to consider... I'm an artist. I am native. I don't paint native scenes very often I prefer painting northern lights and Canadian landscapes. Some would say I'm not a native artist. I say I am. I don't need to limit myself to just painting native motifs. I'm a lawyer. I am native. I don't practise just native law. I delve into international, criminal, torts, family, military and property law. Some would say I am not a native lawyer. I say I am. I serve any client better if I have a wealth of experience in areas of law that can be applied to their matter. I am an officer in the Navy. I am native. I do not defend just native peoples but the peoples of my country as a whole. Some would say I have betrayed my native people. I say I haven't. Look who follows the flags and staffs in a grand entry or in a potlatch, the veteran. I'd say that's a pretty clear indicator of where my people stand on military service.

Don't put yourself in a position where you limit what you can learn. Stretch those wings of yours and when you do, you will see how much you can help your communities. But first, you must finish what you start. The time to discuss where you can apply your new found knowledge will be when you have it. If you limit yourself to what you are today, the future you will be unable to follow paths that you can't even see right now, let alone decide upon.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:25 AM   #57
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Truth is never disrespectful.



No, because you squeal like a stuck pig. As for being a woman, how would I know what you are? Besides, now, realizing you're someone who immediately infers sexism as weak defense to scrutiny.



So you believe that passing out condoms isn't tacit permission?



You asked for an opinion. YOU'RE GETTING ONE. If you have issues with that, perhaps you should specify that you don't want advice, you want a patronizing -- entitlement -- head pat.



By doing what? I don't recall mentioning much about me, beyond indicating no desire to be a Native police officer because cuffing relatives wouldn't be much fun. If you think that's ego, you're not just young and impressionable but easily threatened.



Then I do not suggest AIS.



Which, in the end, helps everyone.



Oh, you care: or you wouldn't wail.



Actually, I implied that learning Spanish DOES help the community.



Is your family's work as naive as you are?

I'm going to make this as simple as I can. You want "constructive" opinions? YOU'RE GETTING IT. If you want non-thinking or unquestioned validation, you're not only in the wrong place but are sure to be disappointed in how the world works: unless you're plan is to further the cause of "Health care? Counselors? Social work? Something in Psychology?" types who enable a system of ongoing entitlement.

If that's the case, by all means get an AIS degree and continue being a thin-skinned femi-Nazi (see above) who leaps to sexism and blames generational trauma (I presume) for all our foibles. We could use more folks to pass on the myth.

I realize you seem to believe that I am getting some sort of buzz out of this. I assure you, I am not. I'd just prefer that you think about this NOW as opposed to at 35-40 when -- like so many whom I know -- you look in a mirror and think, "S-H-I-T, I am the problem."

That's not a pretty thing.
Weren't you employed as an Executive Director (catchy title) of some Indian Center in Missouri or Mississippi or Alabama or somewhere? Wasn't the center there for the 'Social, Economic and Educational' well being and improvement of the Indian Community?

I'm just asking.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:30 AM   #58
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Wow. That's amazing.

You made my entire point in two sentences.



And went straight to the heart of one I was dancing around...

I must be losing my edge.
It's cuz lbgood thinks and writes like an NDN!

Come back home, Zeke. Put down the cigar and cognac and go look in the mirror. The anglo look is only in your mind! Put your Fancy Eagle bustles back on. There is still hope for you!!!


I'm only f'ing wichu!!!
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:28 AM   #59
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Weren't you employed as an Executive Director (catchy title) of some Indian Center in Missouri or Mississippi or Alabama or somewhere? Wasn't the center there for the 'Social, Economic and Educational' well being and improvement of the Indian Community?

I'm just asking.
Sure! (In fact, you can look them up at the link, below.) But that's not an indictment, in any way, about what I am saying. The conflict in this thread is about the "how," not the "what."

For example, that organization had ZERO income (all the grants ran out within 45 days with minimal exterior fundraising) when I hit the door. When I left for a job with benefits, ~18 months later, the annual budget was approximately $0.5M and my salary had increased by 66%.

That happened because I/we weren't enablers.

Now -- years later -- I don't know what they do as there has been nearly complete board and staff turnover.

Heart of America Indian Center
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:35 AM   #60
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I'm confused...

How can a native EXCELLING in their field NOT be a help to their people?

If nothing else, I see them as an inspiration to future generations. Seeing a WhoMe excel, or a Sam Bradford, or a John Herrington can encourage native youth to pursue whatever career they aspire to. And it gives the world a chance to see us outside of the stereotypes.
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