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Old 11-28-2007, 02:20 AM   #201
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A lot of First Nations, can move to the US and easy attain a SS number and be a citizen of this country. Before borders there where no boundaries. foreigner lol.......weenug
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:37 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by OgamaWab10 View Post
The two reservations, that I grew up was Fort Albany and Constance Lake Ontario. I used the native tech site, so that you can understand.

Now if i wrote this, their would be no way to trace it.

Watychi OgamaWab Neenii akisowan, Jibowin neeshoin. neenii nsiindeen.

Perfect and straight from you. All that we ask is for you to treat us like friends, not cloned sheep.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:39 AM   #203
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A lot of First Nations, can move to the US and easy attain a SS number and be a citizen of this country. Before borders there where no boundaries. foreigner lol.......weenug
Wow, so that means that you put your hand over your heart during the pledge of allegiance?
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:49 AM   #204
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Wow, so that means that you put your hand over your heart during the pledge of allegiance?
Oh no, nor my brothers and sisters and other family members or my friends from First Nations that come live in the US. I went to the SS office in Sault Ste Marie Michigan, just went in and sign the papers and had to show Birth and tribal ID, AKA as a statue card. That was back in 1999.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:42 AM   #205
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Ogama, do I have a site just for you! Enjoy!! It's a site devoted to 911 myths and the answers behind them! It starts with the hijackers that you claim to still be alive.


Still Alive
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:31 AM   #206
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why does he not come to powwow's to talk to the people himself ? or does he send other people to talk his praises ?
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:22 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by OgamaWab10 View Post
By Jack Forbes Native Intelligence

There is a strong push in Washington to create a governmental system in the USA which is new to our country, one in which the president and the executive branch possess new powers of a “national emergency” character, powers which override the preeminence of Congress in many areas and which eclipse traditional civilian freedoms and rights. The fact that hundreds of captives can be held by the president at Guantanamo, Cuba, without a declaration of war, without formal charges, and with virtually no human rights is indicative of the administration’s awesome new authority.

International law (the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners, for example) also seems to not exist for our current government, which advocates, among other things, the same kind of preemptive attack upon a potential enemy as was aimed at Pearl Harbor by the Japanese Navy on December 7, 1941!

It would seem absolutely incredible for the United States to be adopting war doctrines typical of the most aggressive states of modern history, including demands for unilateral disarmament (Iraq) as well as the assertion of the right of attack with deadly force, now including nuclear weapons. This was, of course, the manner in which Nazi Germany forced the disarmament of the Czech state after Munich.

This bellicose posture by the USA certainly makes us the most warlike country on the face of the globe today, and the administration’s desire to place weapons in space aimed down at the Earth can only reinforce the awesome power of the USA. But, in fact, what it does is to reinforce the power of the U.S. presidency, especially since a Republican majority in the Congress after November may give Bush immunity to any legislative resistance.

Within this context, the creation of the proposed Department of Homeland Security is especially frightening. What the administration seeks is a very huge bureaucracy all of whose employees will lack any meaningful civil service or union protections. This means that the president will have, at his beck and call, literally an army of servants whose jobs totally depend upon policital loyalty to one person. And these underlings will be armed with huge powers by the so-called “Patriot” Act and Bush-Ashcroft directives to spy on, to harass, and to control the rest of us.

Our government leaders have often done horrible things, but many times their deeds are brought to light because they cannot control all civil service, unionized employees.

Some honest souls (“troublemakers”) dare to put the brakes on, citing statutes perhaps, or serving as whistle-blowers. Thus we have a check upon absolute tyranny, because of the independence and professionalism of at least some elements of the Federal work force. But that will all be wiped out by the homeland security structure. We will have a “Presidential Security” Department but total insecurity for any citizens who pose a political or ideological challenge.

In short, are we not on the verge of creating a dictatorship? Really, it seems to me that we are at the same stage as the Roman Republic when it was persuaded to hand over supreme power to Julius Caesar, or at the same stage as Germany after the Reichstag Fire (when the Nazis used the excuse of the Nazi-set fire to begin rounding up political opponents and to dismantle civil protections for German citizens).

For Native Americans, the powers sought by Bush are frightening, because we remember how the Interior Department with its Bureau of Indian Affairs established a virtual totalitarian dictatorship over Indian Country, a dictatorship lasting until after World War II. Indians know all too well what it means to be “protected” by a powerful powerful bureaucracy.

Is it not very dangerous to place “security” under the likes of Tom Ridge, a man who was reportedly ready to put Mumia Abu Jamal to death when he was governor of Pennsylvania, in spite of evidence of a possible miscarriage of justice? What does that suggest about protections for social critics and non-Whites? And what about the historic willingness of the FBI to pursue a political agenda, as in their harassment of Martin Luther King Jr.?

The tragedy of 9-11 came about because George W. Bush and his team failed to set up a central anti-terrorist command center in the White House and failed to pay any serious attention to the vital information which they did receive. The had plenty of information! What they lacked was common sense and competence, focused as they were on a pay-back to campaign contributors and political buddies! A new department is not the answer. A new president might be!
This is what I think about big government, the war machine, etc…

My first priority is to my son. I fear for his future and what it is I can do to make it better. I do not like bush or his lineage, he scares the hell out of me and now that the war machine rolls on, my sons’ life is at stake for the sins of others. What I want for me is what I want for my son. Before him I didn’t care, before him I would have said, “Let the world self destruct…

Now I cannot cop out, and complacency must be replaced with activism. I cannot keep moving forward with blinders. I admit that I do not like politics one bit it and I make it a point to NOT watch. I try not to vote but there are those around me that believe in the vote and drag me to the polls. I was asked the other day how I could NOT vote? I was told it’s easy to piss n moan about the issues but if I don’t take part in the process then what is the point of making a stand at all? I agree. And what is it I stand for? I want peace. I want it so that there is something of the future that is bright and not all about war n politics. Is peace too big of a wish? I can only do my part.

I will vote for Obama. Yes, he is young but sometimes it’s the youth that can forge what experience cannot. Throw him in …sink or swim Obama cannot be complacent. But then everything remains to be seen.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:23 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by OgamaWab10 View Post
by Jack D. Forbes

CONGRESS is grappling with the task of trying to end the chaos in Iraq, without, however, being either honest or comprehensive. The Bush administration, totally responsible for the mess, for the expenditure of 400 billions of our money, for the loss of almost 25,000 Yanks in uniform, killed or wounded, for the deaths of untold millions of Iraqi civilians, and for the flight from the country of millions of other Iraqis, is totally incapable of ending the war except through bloodshed.

Violence is the heart of the Bush legacy, since it fuels the US Empire's need for more and more expenditures on weaponry and war-related services, giving huge profits to the "Military Industrial Complex" condemned by former President Dwight Eisenhower, but essentially comprising Bush's key corporate base.

War and empire are very pernicious since they feed the profit lust of countless industries from oil to aircraft makers, from makers of uniforms to makers of armored vehicles, from merchant shipping to manufacturers of military food kits, from the prosthetic industry to the makers of coffins.

In short, the Iraq disaster may be a failure from one perspective, but an immense success from the viewpoint of the "war profiteers," and, let's face it, with most of the US domestic manufacturing gone to China, war is now perhaps our major industry. War-related corporations must also dominate the stock market, from tobacco (for the troops, you know) through many of the industrial and technological enterprises.

War constitutes George Bush's "base" whether we consider it in its active killing phase, as in Iraq and Afghanistan, or in its preparation stage, as in the huge number of US military bases and operations all around the globe and in space as well. A war being lost can still be a profitable affair, and the expansion and maintenance of the empire is also continually profitable. Bush' current plan to erect missile defense systems in Poland and Czech Republic, presumably at Yankeedom's expense (you and me paying for it when the Europeans, if they needed it, can damn well pay for it and put it up themselves!) is simply an example of spending money on the empire to provide profit for the contractors and suppliers of technology. The empire, like its immediate predecessor, the British Empire, exists for the benefit of those who profit from it. It is, in short, a form of "socialism" for the powerful insiders as well as jobs for all of the imperial workers wherever they may be stationed.

This long introduction has been deemed necessary in order to illustrate why Bush and his crew of "Big Hard Boys" (this is a term I use for guys in suits and ties, sometimes in uniforms, who don't mind killing and torturing people in order to obtain a desired monetary and political objective) now move us towards another war, with Iran this time. They are the political counterpart of criminal gangsters, and like the latter they have their uniforms (expensive suits and ties), secret clubs, handshakes, and gang affiliations.

Making peace in Iraq can only happen if we see through the war gang's financial interest in military spending and their total indifference to the loss of human life. Be it remembered that most of these gang members were keen supporters of Saddam Hussein during the Reagan and Bush I years when Saddam was savaging the Iranians as well as the Iraqi Kurds. If tens of thousands of Kurds dieing in chemical attacks in those times didn't turn off our Big Hard Boys, then why should the present carnage?

My view is that the key objective of Bush et al in attacking Iraq was to establish a US-controlled "ally" or client state adjacent to Iran and Syria and, of course, to open up Iraqi oil reserves to multinational oil giants and supporting exploration companies, et cetera. ("Democracy" is a term used both by the former Soviets and by the Bush people to refer to a compliant client state, not to a truly democratic society).

If we are to bring an end to the bloodbath in Iraq and to the use of our national treasure to enrich the war profiteers, we must (1) disavow any future interest in controlling Iraq's oil, and (2) abandon our current plans for a series of major military bases there.

The Iraqis torpedoed Britain's plans for a British-controlled Iraq after World War I. Why should they allow the USA to set up a client state there now?

Thus the first thing that we must do is to have Congress cancel all plans for military bases and to pass a resolution guaranteeing that Iraq will have sole control over its petroleum reserves.

We must also overturn the Bush opposition to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court over crimes committed by USCITS (US citizens and subjects). Congress must ratify the treaty establishing the ICC or at least proclaim our willingness to allow any of us who have been charged with criminal acts to be placed on trial according to international law. We now have evidence as to why the Bush people were opposed to the ICC, since it is clear that the torture and abuse of prisoners in violation of both our constitution and international law have been a part of Bush-Cheney behavior, approved at the highest levels.

Many Native American nations, especially in northern California, required an exchange of goods and wealth in order to settle grievances and to bring about peace between warring parties. The United States should be willing to pay large sums of money to individual Iraqis who have suffered because of our acts. Such a position should be established by Congress as a preliminary to negotiations with Iraqi groups. We will also have to calculate the damage done to Iraqi infrastructure during the bombings of Iraq and during our invasion and to be prepared to pay for that (preferably by means of a war profits tax on war-related industries and firms).

These are steps that should precede a ceasefire and negotiations for withdrawal, in my judgment.
This is what I think about big government, the war machine, etc…

My first priority is to my son. I fear for his future and what it is I can do to make it better. I do not like bush or his lineage, he scares the hell out of me and now that the war machine rolls on, my sons’ life is at stake for the sins of others. What I want for me is what I want for my son. Before him I didn’t care, before him I would have said, “Let the world self destruct…

Now I cannot cop out, and complacency must be replaced with activism. I cannot keep moving forward with blinders. I admit that I do not like politics one bit it and I make it a point to NOT watch. I try not to vote but there are those around me that believe in the vote and drag me to the polls. I was asked the other day how I could NOT vote? I was told it’s easy to piss n moan about the issues but if I don’t take part in the process then what is the point of making a stand at all? I agree. And what is it I stand for? I want peace. I want it so that there is something of the future that is bright and not all about war n politics. Is peace too big of a wish? I can only do my part.

I will vote for Obama. Yes, he is young but sometimes it’s the youth that can forge what experience cannot. Throw him in …sink or swim Obama cannot be complacent. But then everything remains to be seen.
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Old 11-30-2007, 04:34 AM   #209
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First I want to point out and remind people that Bush isn't running for office and that voting for Obama isn't a vote against Bush!
I can appreciate your passion when it comes to your son, as many of us have sons who have or will serve in the military.
My question to you, is if your son had cancer, would you take him to the most qualified doctor available or the new doctor just out of med school with no experience with your son's type of cancer?
If you could choose between having a great teacher, with years of experience that your son would learn best under, would you put him with a new teacher who has no experience and cannot offer your son what the other teacher could?
Would you chose to fly with a pilot who has flown a jet for years, who is very skilled in a crisis or would you rather fly with a pilot who just got his certificate to fly, with no experience under fire?
The analogies could go on and on!
Being the good mother that you certainly are, I know that just like the rest of us moms, that you would choose only the best for your son, every time you could!
What I can't understand, or wrap my mind around, is how when it comes to Obama, that it's his, "INEXPERIENCE" that seems to be his best selling point, with some people. I don't understand how it's a good idea to have someone who claims that the ONLY EXPERIENCE IS FROM WHEN HE WAS 10 YRS. OLD!
Whether or not you agree with the war on any front, be it Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or the war on terror, from Radical Islamists, where ever it appears, is not the time in my opinion to get the least experienced running. When dictators are threatening to use Nukes, against countries that don't submit to Allah, Islam and Sharia law , or have countries that continue to carry out terrorist attacks to kill as many as they can, we need someone who is experienced. We can't elect someone who has to be taught or isn't sure of what needs to be done, or how to do it. This is not the time to play catch up.
Irregardless of who you feel started the war, the simple fact is, is that 911 should be the example of what we should remember when it comes to the extremists and what they have in mind for Americans and the west. That has been proven over and over again, around the world.
To demonstrate Obama's inexperience I have put this video here for all to see. It's from the news show, "Hard Ball" in which Chris Matthews, who by the way hates Bush and is liberal, catches Obama in a flip flop on how he would fight terrorism in Pakistan. Obama said that he would attack Pakistan, who by the way is an allie of this country. If Musharuff didn't do as he demanded. A country that has Musharuff as a leader, who has been subject to several assassination attempts by Radical Islamists and holds nuclear weapons. Obama would attack his country.
Now how do you think that played out in Pakistan? This is a country that supports Americas efforts and works to stem the tide of terror, and your boy would attack them, but not Iran, who claims that they are going to annihilate other countries! Nope, don't touch the terrorists, just attack our friends! Obama's words alone can cause just as much harm, when our friends hear that he would attack them!
So is he the dove or the hawk like Bush? Seems he can't decide, and that's that inexperience problem he has! He can't even keep track of what he says, HIMSELF! Imagine what Musharuff thinks, when he risks his life daily to be our friend, then hears that Obama would attack him!

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Old 11-30-2007, 10:59 AM   #210
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duly noted.
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:56 PM   #211
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Hey check out the Hillary thread and please get your information on Bush right, because love him or hate him, at the very least get the real deal before you speak! BILL CLINTON AND HIS GROUP STARTED THE "QUOTE" MISINFORMATION BEFORE BUSH HIT OFFICE! AGAIN, NO REAL FACTS, JUST TALKING POINTS! SINCE YOU WON'T READ I PUT THE VIDEOS! Oh but then you might learn something!
So, no talking about what your busted on right? Obamabot? NO THINKING NO THINKING NO THINKING NO THINKING!!!

THE DEMOCRATS ARE COUNTING ON THAT!!!!!!!

SUBSTANCE WOULD BE A GOOD THANG, KNOWLEDGE IS A GOOD THANG AND YOUR RUNNING FROM ALL OF IT!
JUST LIKE OGAMA IS, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ANSWER IT BEYOND A POLITICAL ADD!
I AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE BECAUSE THOSE WHO WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND THINK FOR THEMSELVES AND VOTE FOR THE BEST, WILL GARNER THE KNOWLEDGE THEY NEED BY THE TRUTH AND NOT SOME ADD by an OBAMABOT!
Hehe funny how you talk about "bots" and such but it seems to me that you are a republican are you not? Seems to me your a Bush sympathizer too. Haha all I can do is laugh at the ignorance. Anyone who backs that dumba$$ in any way shape or form has already lost most of my respect. You keep sayin the same thing over and over.

Whomever has the most money and the most power will win in the end anyway....I will just try to keep on wishfull thinking...
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:59 PM   #212
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Wow, so that means that you put your hand over your heart during the pledge of allegiance?
Yea they really made a big story out of this....and he knew they would. I dont really care one way or the other. Its not like its a sacred song. Its all a bunch of bs if you ask me the whole thing is a show.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:19 PM   #213
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Whitewave, see it's not about being in any political party. It's a matter of telling the truth, because if your blind to everything based on your Democrats continues lies then you are just their pawn and no they don't respect you. I was answering questions with the truth, as is documented. I believe that, Tradition is a good thang with it comes to our various Nations, but the blind allegiance to the Democratic party is the very reason why they NEVER DO BETTER BY US! THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BECAUSE THEY WILL ALWAYS GET YOUR VOTE!
If you will notice I haven't endoresed ANY candidate or any party! I WILL vote for the best one that's out there and that's my point!
Bush isn't running so your being stuck on him is your problem!
We are not talking on this thread about another Bush term are we? No, we are talking about who runs it next! Bush will be out of the picture. I will give you the same challenge that I asked before.
Did the United Nations say in their resolutions that Saddam was a threat with nuclear weapons development and was a threat because of WMD's or not!
Any dim wit can read that they said, and they said the same things that Bush said!
Did the Dems. you trust and love, say the same things that Bush said?
Yup, any dim wit can see and hear it from the donkey's mouths on the videos!
So Whitewave, how about some grown up talk and discussion, instead of the usual, and oh so typical bashing of someone, when they challenge the popular thought, of the tripe that the left always feeds us as NDN's. How about the candidates should have to earn our votes, and we actually have to think this time?
You have no problem that Clinton gave the Chinese the capability of nuking us while in office or that he did NOTHING to prevent terrorism and actually made it impossible for our intelligence agencies to do their jobs. I posted all that information for you and anyone can check it out to see if it's true. Man, it just goes on and on, and that's what you will vote for again and again. Sorry, but that makes you foolish!
You ARE the perfect example of what the Democrats do count on! Respect for me? Since when? If I post what you like to hear, I'm right on and good. If I fail to meet your mandatory democrat talking points, then I'm trash to talk crap about.
What I have posted is ALL fact and searched out and as far as I am concerned, IF BUSH IS GUILTY OF SAYING IT, THEN THEY ARE "ALL" GUILTY OF SAYING IT! BECAUSE IT'S DOCUMENTED BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT THEY ALL DID!
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:40 PM   #214
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the best candidate for this country would be Ron Paul

Ron Paul would be the best candidate for this country by far.
He would cut taxes and many other departments in the system. I rest my case or.......

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Old 11-30-2007, 08:45 PM   #215
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Cool it does get better

Ron Paul on foxs news SPEAKS. Old news and good talking points.

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Old 11-30-2007, 08:54 PM   #216
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What I like best about me is that I don't have the word, "OWNED" stamped on my forehead!
There's a big difference between HAVING FREEDOM and having the ILLUSION OF FREEDOM!
If ANY party, has one's blind loyalty it, then you only have the illusion of freedom or the freedoms that they will allow you to have. YOUR OWNED!
To be able to vote for the best candidate IS freedom and is done after great thought and consideration!
You and others, have no reason to ever complain about the Democratic party not doing what they promise the NDN's again, because you and others will always vote for them again and again, expecting nothing in return!
What is wrong with putting their feet to the fire?
With Obama, all there is, is words and where is his great track record for the NDN's, Where is his great work RIGHT NOW, before he is president for the NDN's? NO WHERE!
On the news today, there are thousands that demonstrated because they want to BEHEAD and KILL a woman because she allowed a classroom of children to name a "TEDDY BEAR" MOHAMMED!
But to see the reality of extremism involved in what we are fighting around the world is what's needed and Obama thinks he can talk to a group that will kill, over a stupid teddy bear! Sorry but that's stupid! OH BUT THEN AGAIN, HE CAN'T DECIDE IF HE WOULD ATTACK OR NOT ATTACK! CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR HIS NEW AND LATEST, EVER CHANGING POSITION ON THAT!
OGAMA, HOW ABOUT ANSWERING ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR CHOSEN LEADER OR THE FACTS PRESENTED? HOW ABOUT YOU TAKE THE SAME CHALLENGE? I THINK I ALREADY KNOW WHY YOU WON'T ENGAGE!

RON PAUL IS A LIBERTARIAN AND AN ISOLATIONIST AND DEAD WRONG ON THE WAR ON TERROR! HE WILL LET THE TERRORISTS GET NUKES AND WEAPONS OF THE SAME ILK! YEAH, LET THEM AMASS WEAPONS TO MURDER WITH! If that's your idea of a man with wisdom, then maybe he should join up the the 10yr. old Obama and his experience!
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:20 PM   #217
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I, and my family have had the opportunity to talk to many soldiers that have served in Iraq or are in training to go there. They are between 18 and 22 yrs. of age as well as other men that are in their 30's and 40's. They do like the president, they do agree with what they are doing there, they don't feel that the American people know the reality or truth of the war and the good things that have been going on to help the Iraqi people. The left REALLY pi**es them off, especially for not telling the truth of what they do and for being condescending to them and their mission. They do hate Kerry, the Clintons, Obama, Pelosi, Murtha, Biden and the rest of them, because they want defeat. They say that the surge is working and for the first time TODAY Murtha agreed before going into the usual bashing he does.
They want to stress the fact that they ALL volunteered to serve, many right out of high school, because they believe in their mission and want to go and serve! One young man asked me if he could store his personal belongings at my home because his Liberal parents kicked him out of his home, because he joined the Army. He is still in high school by the way and a senior. He's been living here and there, but does not regret, that he is going to serve.
When on the news, seeing that people are again living normal lives in Bagdad, is what it's all about. Open stores, thriving market places, a carnival with rides, kids out and playing, open hospitals and schools and people not having to wear flack jackets any more.
Our soldiers know what they are doing and why they are there and yes they do like Bush, better than anything else out there.
There is a young man from Afghanistan who goes to school with my daughter, and I asked her what he thought about the war there in his country. He, has told everyone, that America is trying to set things right in his country and that he and his country men are thankful that we are fighting against the terrorists.
Now any of us can find troops that differ in opinion from those above, no doubt, but those above are not the ones that get their say in the media and that makes them angry as hell. It makes me angry, because they know the cost of the war first hand, and they above all of us, who haven't been there, should have the right to be heard and listened too!
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:25 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Wakopataki View Post
Whitewave, see it's not about being in any political party. It's a matter of telling the truth, because if your blind to everything based on your Democrats continues lies then you are just their pawn and no they don't respect you. I was answering questions with the truth, as is documented. I believe that, Tradition is a good thang with it comes to our various Nations, but the blind allegiance to the Democratic party is the very reason why they NEVER DO BETTER BY US! THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BECAUSE THEY WILL ALWAYS GET YOUR VOTE!
If you will notice I haven't endoresed ANY candidate or any party! I WILL vote for the best one that's out there and that's my point!
Bush isn't running so your being stuck on him is your problem!
We are not talking on this thread about another Bush term are we? No, we are talking about who runs it next! Bush will be out of the picture. I will give you the same challenge that I asked before.
Did the United Nations say in their resolutions that Saddam was a threat with nuclear weapons development and was a threat because of WMD's or not!
Any dim wit can read that they said, and they said the same things that Bush said!
Did the Dems. you trust and love, say the same things that Bush said?
Yup, any dim wit can see and hear it from the donkey's mouths on the videos!
So Whitewave, how about some grown up talk and discussion, instead of the usual, and oh so typical bashing of someone, when they challenge the popular thought, of the tripe that the left always feeds us as NDN's. How about the candidates should have to earn our votes, and we actually have to think this time?
You have no problem that Clinton gave the Chinese the capability of nuking us while in office or that he did NOTHING to prevent terrorism and actually made it impossible for our intelligence agencies to do their jobs. I posted all that information for you and anyone can check it out to see if it's true. Man, it just goes on and on, and that's what you will vote for again and again. Sorry, but that makes you foolish!
You ARE the perfect example of what the Democrats do count on! Respect for me? Since when? If I post what you like to hear, I'm right on and good. If I fail to meet your mandatory democrat talking points, then I'm trash to talk crap about.
What I have posted is ALL fact and searched out and as far as I am concerned, IF BUSH IS GUILTY OF SAYING IT, THEN THEY ARE "ALL" GUILTY OF SAYING IT! BECAUSE IT'S DOCUMENTED BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT THEY ALL DID!
Haha I agree wit you on one thing. Its not about being in a political party, in fact I'll have you know I am not registered as a democrat. AND I believe they're all corrupt. Anyone that is able to make it into office is corrupt and can't be fully trusted. Its not possible for anyone completely honest to get into the White House. I wouldn't trust a republican as far as I could throw em though. Not for a second, not unless they were just an ignorant follower that doesnt know any better (the brainwashed ones) I dont trust anyone, I do c Obama as the lesser of the evils, but I dont really trust him either. Hes just the one I agree with more of his ideas and answers more, but I dont trust how popular he is and how pop starish he is. My opinion....no need to get all caps on people, gawd y dont you start a republican thread lol.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:08 PM   #219
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Giuliani's Ties to a Terror Sheikh part 1

Tuesday 27 November 2007

Giuliani's business contracts tie him to the man who let 9/11's mastermind escape the FBI.

Three weeks after 9/11, when the roar of fighter jets still haunted the city's skyline, the emir of gas-rich Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifah al-Thani, toured Ground Zero. Although a member of the emir's own royal family had harbored the man who would later be identified as the mastermind of the attack-a man named Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, often referred to in intelligence circles by his initials, KSM-al-Thani rushed to New York in its aftermath, offering to make a $3 million donation, principally to the families of its victims. Rudy Giuliani, apparently unaware of what the FBI and CIA had long known about Qatari links to Al Qaeda, appeared on CNN with al-Thani that night and vouched for the emir when Larry King asked the mayor: "You are a friend of his, are you not?"

"We had a very good meeting yesterday. Very good," said Giuliani, adding that he was "very, very grateful" for al-Thani's generosity. It was no cinch, of course, that Giuliani would take the money: A week later, he famously rejected a $10 million donation from a Saudi prince who advised America that it should "adopt a more balanced stand toward the Palestinian cause." (Giuliani continues to congratulate himself for that snub on the campaign trail.) Al-Thani waited a month before expressing essentially the same feelings when he returned to New York for a meeting of the U.N. General Assembly and stressed how important it was to "distinguish" between the "phenomenon" of 9/11 and "the legitimate struggles" of the Palestinians "to get rid of the yoke of illegitimate occupation and subjugation." Al-Thani then accused Israel of "state terrorism" against the Palestinians.

But there was another reason to think twice about accepting al-Thani's generosity that Giuliani had to have been aware of, even as he heaped praise on the emir. Al Jazeera, the Arabic news network based in Qatar (pronounced "Cutter"), had been all but created by al-Thani, who was its largest shareholder. The Bush administration was so upset with the coverage of Osama bin Laden's pronouncements and the U.S. threats to bomb Afghanistan that Secretary of State Colin Powell met the emir just hours before Giuliani's on-air endorsement and asked him to tone down the state-subsidized channel's Islamist footage and rhetoric. The six-foot-eight, 350-pound al-Thani, who was pumping about $30 million a year into Al Jazeera at the time, refused Powell's request, citing the need for "a free and credible media." The administration's burgeoning distaste for what it would later brand "Terror TV" was already so palpable that King-hardly a newsman-asked the emir if he would help "spread the word" that the U.S. was "not targeting the average Afghan citizen." Al-Thani ignored the question-right before Giuliani rushed in to praise him again.

In retrospect, Giuliani's embrace of the emir appears peculiar. But it was only a sign of bigger things to come: the launching of a cozy business relationship with terrorist-tolerant Qatar that is inconsistent with the core message of Giuliani's current presidential campaign, namely that his experience and toughness uniquely equip him to protect America from what he tauntingly calls "Islamic terrorists"-an enemy that he always portrays himself as ready to confront, and the Democrats as ready to accommodate.

The contradictory and stunning reality is that Giuliani Partners, the consulting company that has made Giuliani rich, feasts at the Qatar trough, doing business with the ministry run by the very member of the royal family identified in news and government reports as having concealed KSM-the terrorist mastermind who wired funds from Qatar to his nephew Ramzi Yousef prior to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, and who also sold the idea of a plane attack on the towers to Osama bin Laden-on his Qatar farm in the mid-1990s.

This royal family member is Abdallah bin Khalid al-Thani, Qatar's minister of Islamic affairs at the time, who was later installed at the interior ministry in January 2001 and reappointed by the emir during a government shake-up earlier this year. Abdallah al-Thani is also said to have welcomed Osama bin Laden on two visits to the farm, a charge repeated as recently as October 10, 2007, in a Congressional Research Service study. Abdallah al-Thani's interior ministry or the state-owned company it helps oversee, Qatar Petroleum, has worked with Giuliani Security & Safety LLC, a subsidiary of Giuliani Partners, on an undisclosed number of contracts, the value of which neither the government nor the company will release. But there's little question that a security agreement with Qatar's government, or with Qatar Petroleum, would put a company like Giuliani's in direct contact with the ministry run by Abdallah al-Thani: The website of Qatar's government, and the interior ministry's press office, as well as numerous press stories, all confirm that the ministry controls a 2,500-member police force, the General Administration of Public Security, and the Mubahathat, or secret police. The ministry's charge under law is to "create and institute security in this country." Hassan Sidibe, a public-relations officer for the ministry, says that "a company that does security work, they have to get permission from the interior ministry."

What's most shocking is that Abdallah al-Thani has been widely accused of helping to spirit KSM out of Qatar in 1996, just as the FBI was closing in on him. Robert Baer, a former CIA supervisor in the region, contends in a 2003 memoir that the emir himself actually sanctioned tipping KSM. The staff of the 9/11 Commission, meanwhile, noted that the FBI and CIA "were reluctant to seek help from the Qatari government" in the arrest of KSM, "fearing that he might be tipped off." When Qatar's emir was finally "asked for his help" in January 1996, Qatari authorities "first reported that KSM was under surveillance," then "asked for an alternative plan that would conceal their aid to Americans," and finally "reported that KSM had disappeared."

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Old 12-03-2007, 05:10 PM   #220
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Rudy's Ties to a Terror Sheikh part 2

Giuliani's lifelong friend Louis Freeh, the FBI head who talked to Giuliani periodically about terrorist threats during Giuliani's mayoral years and has endorsed him for president, was so outraged that he wrote a formal letter to Qatar's foreign minister complaining that he'd received "disturbing information" that KSM "has again escaped the surveillance of your Security Services and that he appears to be aware of FBI interest in him."

Abdallah al-Thani remains a named defendant in the 9/11 lawsuits that are still proceeding in Manhattan federal court, but his Washington lawyers declined to address the charges that he shielded KSM, insisting only that he never "supported" any "terrorist acts." Asked if Abdallah al-Thani ever supported any terrorists rather than their acts, his lawyer David Nachman declined to comment further. The Congressional Research Service report summarized the evidence against him: "According to the 9/11 Commission Report and former U.S. government officials, royal family member and current Qatari Interior Minister, Sheikh Abdullah (Abdallah) bin Khalid Al Thani, provided safe harbor and assistance to Al Qaeda leaders during the 1990s," including KSM. While numerous accounts have named Abdallah as the KSM tipster, the report simply says that "a high ranking member of the Qatari government" is believed to have "alerted" KSM "to the impending raid."

Freeh's letter in 1996 highlighted the consequences of this government-orchestrated escape with a prophetic declaration, saying that the "failure to apprehend KSM would allow him and other associates to continue to conduct terrorist operations." Indeed, had KSM, who was even then focused on the use of hijacked planes as weapons, been captured in 1996, 9/11 might well have never happened.

In other words, as incredible as it might seem, Rudy Giuliani-whose presidential candidacy is steeped in 9/11 iconography-has been doing business with a government agency run by the very man who made the attacks on 9/11 possible.

This startling revelation is not a sudden disclosure from new sources. It has, in fact, been staring us in the face for many months.

The Wall Street Journal reported on November 7 that one Giuliani Partners client the former mayor hadn't previously disclosed was, in fact, the government of Qatar. Quoting the recently retired Bush envoy to Qatar, Chase Untermeyer, the Journal reported that state-run Qatar Petroleum had signed a contract with Giuliani Security "around 2005" and that the firm (of which Giuliani has a 30 percent equity stake) is offering security advice to a giant natural-gas processing facility called Ras Laffan. While the interior ministry wouldn't confirm individual contracts, it did tell the Voice that Qatar Petroleum and security "purchasing" are part of its portfolio.

(The Journal story was followed by a similar piece in the Chicago Tribune last week, which revealed that Giuliani's firm has also represented a complex casino partnership seeking to build a $3.5 billion Singapore resort. The partnership included "the family of a controversial Hong Kong billionaire who has ties to the regime of North Korea's Kim Jong II and has been linked to international organized crime by the U.S. government.")

The Journal story, however, didn't go into detail about the unsavory connections that Giuliani had made in the Middle East. The Journal wrote that it learned about the Qatar contract after reading a speech that Untermeyer gave in 2006, when he said that Giuliani's firm had "important contracts" in Qatar. In fact, Untermeyer-who returned to Texas when he stepped down as ambassador to join a real-estate firm partnered with the National Bank of Qatar-told the Houston Forum that Giuliani's "security company" has "several" contracts in Qatar, and that Giuliani himself "comes to Doha [Qatar's capital] twice a year." Untermeyer's wife Diana spoke at the same event about their daughter Elly, who she said "makes friends with all she meets-other kids, generals, sheikhs, and even our famous American visitors like former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, whom she deems 'cool.' "

While it is true that Giuliani hasn't disclosed the particulars of his Qatar business, he and others at the firm have been bragging about it for years, presumably on the assumption that mentioning good-paying clients is the best way to generate more of the same. Giuliani told South Africa's Business Times in June 2006, for example, that he'd "recently helped Qatar" to transform Doha in preparation for the Asian Games, an Olympics- sanctioned, 45-country competition that occurred last December. He was in Johannesburg in part to offer to do the same before South Africa hosts the 2010 World Cup. "They had the same concerns as you," he said at the Global Leaders Africa summit, "and I helped them pull things together. You can see not only how they pulled together physical things that were necessary, such as stadiums, but how they used the plan to improve their security."

Richard Bradshaw, a consulting-services manager for an Australian security firm that played a two-and-a-half-year role in planning the Asian Games, says that "the ministry of the interior is essentially the chief ministry in charge of internal security"-for the games and other matters. Bradshaw says that he "heard the name of Giuliani Partners quoted in this town," but that he knew nothing directly about their Asian Games involvement, adding that "maybe they just dealt with high levels in the government." But Hassan Sidibe, the interior ministry's press officer, says that a special organizing committee handled contracts for the Asian Games and that "the minister of interior was part of that committee."

village voice > news > Rudy's Ties to a Terror Sheikh by Wayne Barrett
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