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Old 06-01-2010, 08:36 PM   #1
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blood quantum / enrollment

yes this has been discussed before many times. wondering how people still react to this issue as it's not going away anytime soon. found some videos i'd thought i'd share. so, how do we all approach this issue? do we take the blonde haired blue eyed person that says gram was indian and wants to learn said traditions? do we ask for ancestry proof, or say you don't look indian, f-you there's the door. how do those who don't meet enrollment qualifications approach the feather issue? do they go to events wearing feathers chancing fines and the like, or do they go wearing chicken feathers cause they don't want trouble. thoughts...

YouTube - enrollment issues

YouTube - blood quantums
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:44 PM   #2
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Each family has their own way of dealing with these issues. Family connections make the final decisions.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:13 AM   #3
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman

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Old 06-02-2010, 01:13 AM   #4
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:19 AM   #5
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random! at my uni they just had a speaker on blood quantum reform last month, i wish i could remember the persons name, but they had some really interesting points and people were crying at the end of it. except i personally disagree with most of them because they wanted to do away with quantums and i don't like the idea of taking away the blood rule just because everyone would be joining the tribe for benefits and raping the culture, but the system seems fuxed up now
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:20 PM   #6
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Cool Our Blood

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktail View Post
yes this has been discussed before many times. wondering how people still react to this issue as it's not going away anytime soon. found some videos i'd thought i'd share. so, how do we all approach this issue? do we take the blonde haired blue eyed person that says gram was indian and wants to learn said traditions? do we ask for ancestry proof, or say you don't look indian, f-you there's the door. how do those who don't meet enrollment qualifications approach the feather issue? do they go to events wearing feathers chancing fines and the like, or do they go wearing chicken feathers cause they don't want trouble. thoughts...

YouTube - enrollment issues

YouTube - blood quantums
The way I see it the blood is ours and we determine who is and who is not a part of our tribes. This over 500 year shell game that has been perpetrated on us and our people by an alien colonial mindset has no substance except what the people give to it. Why are we the only human beings that get disrespectfully queried on how much % blood we have, think about it. When someone asks me how much NDN blood I have I tell them it's as much as flows thru my Big Red Chahta/Siksika Heart, which physically is all the blood in my body, nuff said. Sa ho'chifu ut Chinchuba. All my relations
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:39 PM   #7
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Blood quantium/enrollment

Hello Everyone,

This is a good topic and I enjoy listening to what others have to say. However, as for me, I am not an enrolled member into any Nation but the blood of my First Nation Grandmothers and Grandfathers runs through my veins and I'm proud of it because I find that I am able to see through their eyes and I am able to listen to the spirits. And when I say "spirits" I don't mean Jack Daniels because I don't drink. Smile... I mean the good spirits such as the nature spirits and the guiding spirits all around us. Naturally the bad spirits try to slip in some negative thoughts at times but I've learn to know the differences between the good and the bad.

I am not perfect or "know-it-all." I've made lots of mistakes trying to find my way. Yet I am always willing to listen and learn. I am 53 years old and that is not to old to learn and listen especially to younger folks or the Elders. There are lots of younger folks out there who can teach me a lot and I know it. I enjoy First Nation gatherings and whenever I attend those gatherings I show respect. I've never worn regalia but I hope that someday, someone will help me make a beautiful traditional outfit. With all due respect, I feel that non-enrolled members should not even wear regalia at gatherings unless an Elder or Tribal Council member gives them the "ok." This is only my opinion.

In summary, what I'm saying is I respect enrolled memebers and any person with First Nation roots seeking enrollment should respect his or herself, first. Secondly, that person should earn respect from the Tribal Council, Elders, and the Tribal Members. Actually, it is easy to tell if a person is true or fake because a tree is known by the fruit it produces. Therefore, I feel that tribes should not let people become enrolled members simply because "Great Grandma had long hair down to here!" Being Indian goes deeper than hair texture or color, skin color, eye color, dancing at pow-wows and wearing elaborate regalia. Being Indian comes from the inside out. I've never seeked enrollment into any tribe but maybe someday, I will and if that happens I will feel honored. If it does not happen, I still feel honored because I am able to live and learn.

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Old 06-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #8
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U dont have to be enrolled to be NDN

It is like a label, R U enrolled into a Federally Recognized Tribe? Just that question alone is far from being NDN. Being NDN is how u r born, and raised. Many have chose not to be and left the rezes to never look back again their lineage was turned another color. It is only recently that enrollment is a "HOT TOPIC" and the reason for that is.......GAming Dividends! Ayyyes! but also cause IHS and other things Tribes have to offer and support their members. When we had nothing no one cared if they were enrolled or not. The Tribes that got Per-Capitas were the ones that worried about it. Since Gaming came along even Tribes that were't federally recognized and didnt get IHS and other NDN monies have come forward and want recognition, right after recognition comes a casino. Along with NDN benefits and Divedends.

I do agree that blood quantums r needed, at the least to weed out those who never where there but want the $$$ and benefits, but I also think the Tribe can choose to adopt family members who don't meet the quantums.

Cause that happens now days, kids who's parents and grandparents never even left the rez, but keep marrying out next thing you know ur children who dance, dig and pick cant even be enrolled, which means they cant hunt or fish either. That is when it isnt fair.

An Indian thinks it is bad when they cant hunt and fish under their Treaty Rights, not that they dont get to go to the Clinic and get a dividend or per-capita check. Anywas fun topic
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:09 PM   #9
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yup, i agree there's alot of people who are just after the money and benefits. but i have met many decendants who don't care about the money. they just want the right to "legally" carry feathers, or they need a card to vend at a powwow and the like. what about those people?
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:07 PM   #10
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I was for many years a decendant, because I was 7 different tribes. Finally, I was enrolled as an adult, because my grandfathers tribe combined all my blood-lines(quantum) that added up to half-indian. I know its difficult for people who cannot enroll, but still feel that quantum is an important aspect to keeping a tribe "whole." I have siblings that have married and made children with white spouses. I do not love them any less for doing so, but they have chosen a path that will not allow their children to be enrolled anywhere. In this society, we have the freedom to choose, and I choose to be who I was raised to be.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:18 AM   #11
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When you mix red and white together, it doesn't come out white. It comes out a shade of red. You are still Native American.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:46 AM   #12
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When you mix red and white together, it doesn't come out white. It comes out a shade of red. You are still Native American.
so how do you explain you coming out white?
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:27 AM   #13
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What is the percentage of blood quantium for enrollment?
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
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What is the percentage of blood quantium for enrollment?
There are nearly as many different answers for that as there are tribes.

Some tribes enroll based on lineal descendency. That means that you have at least one direct ancestor (mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, etc.) who is listed on the base rolls for that tribe. In this scenario there is no minimum blood quantum requirement.

Other tribes have minimum blood quantum requirements that range anywhere from 5/8 (Ute) to 1/2 (ex. White Mountain Apache), 1/4 (ex. Navajo), 1/8 (ex. Apache Tribe of OK) and all of the way to 1/16 (Eastern Band of Cherokee).

Then there are other tribes who have additional rules involving which parent must be a tribal member in order for the child to be enrolled. Some tribes are matrilineal - so if a child was 1/2 of that tribe, but through their father, they couldn't be enrolled.

Some tribes also have some privileges allotted to descendants who don't qualify for enrollment, such as fishing or hunting rights on tribal lands.

There is tons more information on this and if you want to see the requirements for any particular tribe, that tribe's website usually has the enrollment info somewhere.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
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There are nearly as many different answers for that as there are tribes.

Some tribes enroll based on lineal descendency. That means that you have at least one direct ancestor (mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, etc.) who is listed on the base rolls for that tribe. In this scenario there is no minimum blood quantum requirement.

Other tribes have minimum blood quantum requirements that range anywhere from 5/8 (Ute) to 1/2 (ex. White Mountain Apache), 1/4 (ex. Navajo), 1/8 (ex. Apache Tribe of OK) and all of the way to 1/16 (Eastern Band of Cherokee).

Then there are other tribes who have additional rules involving which parent must be a tribal member in order for the child to be enrolled. Some tribes are matrilineal - so if a child was 1/2 of that tribe, but through their father, they couldn't be enrolled.

Some tribes also have some privileges allotted to descendants who don't qualify for enrollment, such as fishing or hunting rights on tribal lands.

There is tons more information on this and if you want to see the requirements for any particular tribe, that tribe's website usually has the enrollment info somewhere.
Thanks for the info!
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
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yup, i agree there's alot of people who are just after the money and benefits. but i have met many decendants who don't care about the money. they just want the right to "legally" carry feathers, or they need a card to vend at a powwow and the like. what about those people?
Yep, I agree. The reason that I love and honor my First Nation heritage so much is because of the respect, harmony, and balance that our ancestors shared with nature and each other. We are living in a time where to me the most important thing in the whole world is to be a one with nature because we are all connected. We are the land. Look at the damage that awful oil spill is doing. Look at how they are cutting down the trees and destroying the wildlife. Look at how drugs, disease, depression, liquor and wine are killing our people. My heart cries.

I'm one of those people who don't care about the money because I don't know what it feels like to have money but I love nature. I'm a 53 year old mom and I raised my 28 year old son alone using my weekly paycheck. Yep, I'm one of those who live paycheck to paycheck. Smile... And right now, I've been umemployed since January 2009, yet I'm a happy person because each day I work in my vegetable and flower garden. I have six dogs, two cats, 30 chickens including 10 two weeks old chicks and about 16 goats. Smile... I enjoy my critters and I also raise herbs such as basil, peppermint, sage, lavendar, etc. Although I'm in a poor financial situation, I feel good and when I walk outside each day, I'm surrounded by fresh air, birds, trees, and all sorts of critters. To me those things are more precious than money.

And to those people who only want a federal card to legally carry feathers and vend at pow-wows, I feel sorry for them because they are missing the mark. They are missing the honor, beauty, and true meaning of being NDN. They don't deserve the card. And to those people who only want to be an enrolled member because of the money and benefits, tribes should kick them in the butt.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:59 PM   #17
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Some words from Faces in the Moon, by Betty L. Bell (Cherokee), University of Oklahoma Press, 1994.



I have always been confused by who talk and talk of their religious beliefs or Indian identity. As far back as I can remember, I belonged to a secret society of Indian women, meeting around a kitchen table in a conspiracy to bring the past into the present. I listened, their stories settling forever into my blood...

They heard, and taught me to hear, the truth in things not said.... "Ifn a man's gotta tell ya he's got," my momma said, "he done already lost it." (pp 56-57.)



"This here's the Reverend Tom Cottonmouth. Speakin' to ya from the national I Wannabe a Cherokee network...

Ifn your [sic] having a little tribal uncertainty... Ifn y'all had bad credit, a turn a bad luck, think to yourselves, Indian brothers and sisters, maybe y'all need a new identity. An' ya can have it right here, no questions asked an' no references needed. Ya'll had grandmommas, ain't no more needed than that.

For just a ten-dollar bill, no checks please, we'll send ya a authentic certificate of Cherokee blood....

Cherokee. We mean Indian."
(pp 57-58)

Last edited by OLChemist; 06-06-2010 at 06:17 AM.. Reason: Dang spell check had a field day.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:34 PM   #18
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While I understand the requirement of quantum measures in certain instances my teachings have been that quantum does not guide me, my spirits and Anscestors guide me and support me and that is enough for me. I am non-status and as such I have no claims, or wants for benefits that I a not entitled however, my Mother is status and I will stand and speak up for her rights. So long as I have my Mothers blood travelling through my veins then I am NDN...
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
There are nearly as many different answers for that as there are tribes.

Some tribes enroll based on lineal descendency. That means that you have at least one direct ancestor (mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, etc.) who is listed on the base rolls for that tribe. In this scenario there is no minimum blood quantum requirement.

Other tribes have minimum blood quantum requirements that range anywhere from 5/8 (Ute) to 1/2 (ex. White Mountain Apache), 1/4 (ex. Navajo), 1/8 (ex. Apache Tribe of OK) and all of the way to 1/16 (Eastern Band of Cherokee).

Then there are other tribes who have additional rules involving which parent must be a tribal member in order for the child to be enrolled. Some tribes are matrilineal - so if a child was 1/2 of that tribe, but through their father, they couldn't be enrolled.

Some tribes also have some privileges allotted to descendants who don't qualify for enrollment, such as fishing or hunting rights on tribal lands.

There is tons more information on this and if you want to see the requirements for any particular tribe, that tribe's website usually has the enrollment info somewhere.
Thank you, this information is interesting. I want to share a short true story with you. A few years ago, I met a young 25 year old Anglo woman and she has a federal tribal card from the Cherokee Nation. I don't think it was the Western Band in North Carolina though but it said federal tribal card. I think her father is Cherokee.

Anyway, she had never attended a pow-wow and she wanted to go with me to the Halawia Saponi gathering so I took her with me, last year. First of all, she was shocked at the apperance of the people and she made rude comments because some of the NDN people had brown skin and curly hair instead of fair skin and straight hair like she has. Then I explained to her that not all Indians have light skin and straight hair like hers.

Next, we went to several vendors and while I purchased some herbs she spotted a beautiful cedar flute. She picked up the flute and turned it around in her hands examing it, then she said to the Elder, who made the flute, "Wow! Is this a real peace pipe?"

He quickly said, "Are you a real Indian?" It was sort of comical but I was embarassed for her and I said, "This is her first pow-wow." He nodded and smiled then he said, "That's a flute but we call our pipes medicine pipes. The white man calls them peace pipes."
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