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Old 12-12-2011, 09:03 PM   #1
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:40 AM   #2
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Ok so I was checking out the cherokee of Oklahoma's website and they had this thing about trying to gain support to stop any tribes or native people in kentucky from getting any type of recognigtion.

So I'm checking it out more....and it appears to be them saying they do not care who it is...if any indigenious person goes to kentucky they should not be given recognigtion and they should be looked upon as fakes and frauds. Ok so thats a attack on a entire state.

So I try to see what tribes is in Kentucky. One tribe there is the southern cherokee nation of Kentucky...so I check their website out. It appears thru archiology the cherokee was shown to been there...and their website holds a ton of documentation...one document of interest is wrote 116 years ago where the government of Kentucky recognized this group as cherokee...and shows this group has been a established tribe for over 116 years. Now on the Oklahoma's cherokee site they wrote something about the year 1900 and later....ok so....this one Kentucky tribe has been recognized for 116 years.

Now correct me if I'm wrong...but was a large chunk of the Federal cherokee not even recognized till like 1900? If I remember right some of their rolls is younger than 116 years. If that is true then this tribe has been recognized by a government agency even before some of these Federal cherokee.

If this Kentucky tribe was fakes or frauds like the Oklahoma cherokee states...I really do not think they would of lasted 116 years. I do not see a single thing suggesting this tribe is anywhere near fake or a fraud or stealing the cherokee name since they was litterally recognized by government agencies for 116 years.

Further more the Oklahoma cherokee site states they do not want any native people in Kentucky being recognized by Kentucky....that seems to be a attack on any and every tribe. Their site then starts to suggest the only real people who should be allowed to claim their native heritage is federal ones and it states that state recognigtion of any tribe is not legal and pretty much any tribe in the USA that is state recognized should be seen as fakes and frauds....that is a attack on a serious amount of tribes. How many state recognized tribes is there in the USA?? From their website is highly suggests they want to strip every state recognized tribe of their recognigtion.

Now I've already heard of Federal Cherokee tribes attempting to keep the Lumbee from getting Federal....and I've heard the stories how the freedman who was held as slaves by the federal cherokee...made them clear the land in Oklahoma...made them tend to the crops...made them wash their clothes...made them cook their food....even made them carry their heavier items as they walked that same trail of tears along side them....then tell them they would free them and sign a treaty of 1866 that would give them the same rights etc as any other Cherokee...then took that away and tried to justify it. But now...they are calling every single state recognized tribe in america fakes and frauds and trying to get people to help them keep tribes around the USA from being recognized??? I've heard how they complained that the white people took their land...broke treaties etc...but they are braking treaties with the freedman..and now they trying to gain support to stop tribes around the USA from reclaiming what is theirs...come on now....if this is true..then WOW.

Before replying etc...take a look at the Oklahoma Cherokee's website discussing this... then look at the Kentucky cherokee's website.. and then comment back....if anyone came make better sense to this then defiently reply back.
No just the ones claiming they are Cherokee...
That would be over 200 "groups"

Go back and study some more History us Federal Cherokees have Treaties with the Federal Government since before this was a Country. the 1st Treaty was signed by George Washington you heard of him right?
A roll is just a listing of tribal members of the tribe
A Treaty is a document between Sovereign Nations...
Two different things and if you dig further you will find Rolls as early as 1815 with Cherokees

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Old 12-13-2011, 09:10 AM   #3
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No just the ones claiming they are Cherokee...
That would be over 200 "groups"

Go back and study some more History us Federal Cherokees have Treaties with the Federal Government since before this was a Country. the 1st Treaty was signed by George Washington you heard of him right?
A roll is just a listing of tribal members of the tribe
A Treaty is a document between Sovereign Nations...
Two different things and if you dig further you will find Rolls as early as 1815 with Cherokees
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
No just the ones claiming they are Cherokee...
That would be over 200 "groups"

Go back and study some more History us Federal Cherokees have Treaties with the Federal Government since before this was a Country. the 1st Treaty was signed by George Washington you heard of him right?
A roll is just a listing of tribal members of the tribe
A Treaty is a document between Sovereign Nations...
Two different things and if you dig further you will find Rolls as early as 1815 with Cherokees
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:51 AM   #5
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:12 AM   #6
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:18 AM   #7
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1. I think your zeal helped you to misunderstand what Josiah said, and
2. It's not proper to insult or argue with an elder, especially one who knows his Cherokee history.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:20 AM   #8
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by HistoryStudent View Post
Now you mentioned George Washington.

George Washington (February 22, 1732 [O.S. February 11, 1731] December 14, 1799) was the dominant military and political leader of the new United States of America from 1775 to 1799.

1775 is quite late in the time for the first treaties in america.

In the COURT-HOUSE Chamber at Lanca?ter, June 30, 1744, A. M.
Gachradodow, Speaker for the Indians, in Answer to the Commi??ioners Speech at the la?t Meeting, with a strong Voice, and proper Action, spoke as follows:

Brother Assaragoa,
WE then desired a Letter might be sent to the Catawbas and Cherikees, to de?ire them to come and confirm the Peace. It was long before an Answer came; but we met the Cherikees, and confirmed the Peace, and sent some of our People to take care of them, until they returned to their own Country.


EXECUTIVE JOURNALS



OF THE



Council of Colonial Virginia

Vol. IV

(October 25, 1721-October 28, 1739)

December the 11 th 1734

Three of the Great Men of the Cherrikee Indians attended by di-
verse others of that Nation this day desired to be admitted to offer cer-
tain Proposals to the Governor and Council & being accordingly admitted
they said that all the Lands in this part of America once belong'd to
them but now it is King George's, & his Subjects may now use it as
freely as any of their Nation us'd to do that they look upon themselves
also to be King George's Subjects & to be as Brethren to the Saponies
Tuskaroroes Nottoways & other Indians living amongst the English that
he the person who spoke for them was told so by the King when he
went to England with S r Alexander Cumming That they come hither
now to see the Governor of Virginia as their Friends & to propose a
nearer Correspondence with the People of this Colony & are therefore
desirous to Settle on a Branch of Roanoke River that from thence
they may enjoy the Conveniency of a free Trade with this Colony They
were answered that [they] may Trade here with all freedom so long as
they continue in Peace & Friendship with his Majesties Subjects but as



344 Executive Journals, Councils of Colonial Virginia



to their removing to Roanoke it did not seem so convenient for the Hunt-
ing because they might frequently be disturbd by the Northern Indians
who Hunt Yearly thereabouts whereupon they Signified that they were
very desirous to make peace with the Northern Indians if they cou'd
find means to propose it, The Governor then told them he wou'd write
to the Governor of New York to treat of a peace with the Cherrikee
Nation & wou'd endeavour to procure a safe Conduct for their Agents
to Repair to the Northern Indians to that Purpose And then having
acquainted them that he had prepared presents for them as a Testimony
of the Friendship of this Colony toward their Nation they withdrew

Ordered

That the Interpreter who attend cd the Cherrikee Indians be paid
five Pistoles for his trouble & Service therein


----------------------------------------------------------------------



1734....this way pre dates your "George Washington" treaties.

What this also states is the cherokee had made a peace treaty among the Eastern tribes of Virginia..and they wished to live among them at the roanoke river. This is way outside of the spectrum of those George Washington treaties or the land recession treaties. The Roanoke land was NEVER included in the Cherokee removal areas. There in that document which is accepted by the federal government because it is in fact a Federal record. This record states if the Cherokee wished to live at roanoke then they may have problems with the Northern indians....the cherokee replied that they then wish to make a peace treaty among the Northen Indians also. This document is very clear that the Cherokee was in areas outside of the areas which the Federal Cherokee of today talk about. This document alos pre dates any of the treaties the Federal Cherokee discuss. This document specifically names lands outside of the areas the federal Cherokee will discuss. It also destroys your George Washington quoteing. Maybe you are not aware but George Washington that you speak of was not even born till 1732....making him only 2 years old at this time.
This document also proves that yes there was Cherokee that was never removed off the other lands and the three Cherokee tribes that claim they are the only Cherokee is completely wrong and has been proven to be false.
actually I was talking about our present government and yes we had treaties before that with the english as we were there allies, as a student of history you know the English Lost! So any treaty before the formation of the sovereign nation of the united states and previous governments were swept away upon the ratification of treaties between soverneign nations namely Us and the USA!
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:51 AM   #10
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:28 PM   #11
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:32 PM   #12
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In a past life were you named Yellow Hair?
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:36 PM   #13
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:20 PM   #14
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:58 PM   #15
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I am confused by what your saying are you only talking about Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma?
United Keetoowah Band?
Eastern Cherokee Band?
They are all one and the same tribe! We all speak the same language and we share the same culture
As for what we are now called that was our Government doing that is a political issue
We are recognized as such because as a group we remained together through thick and thin
Those tribes are made up of Families that are related to each other I have kinfolks in each of those tribes
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!
I have no kinfolks in any of the other groups that claim they are Cherokee.

As for the Freedman issue that was brought up by our previous chief who was voted out of office! The people did indeed spoke with the ballot...
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:11 PM   #16
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:55 PM   #17
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This could be the possibility of how a tribe last a long time

I have never lived with a tribe but my family is so big and has gotten even bigger sense starting 100 years ago, someone in the past moved up hear to the north and most people don't think there is cherokee indians here but there is 100s and maybe 1000s, books don't tell everything.
Being Native American isn't JUST about blood. It is a Spiritual way of life. I read this early just had to add this statement.

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Old 12-13-2011, 04:13 PM   #18
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Yellow hair lol. Was I named in a past life as yellow hair...because I actually fight for the rights of ALL Indigenious people...was I named Yellow hair because I do not believe in broken treaties....keeping your word shows strong spirit...going back on your word shows a weak spirit.
I'm gonna guess since you skirted the question and went on you Shoalin Monk shpeal here, that YES, you are indeed the [email protected]$$ who called himself Yellow Hair a month or so ago, because you have the same ignorance and arrogance, 2 deadly combinations

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Maybe you do not care about the Native American struggles through history. Our native history does not include Casinos. European ways is to attack each other and destroy each other...this is learned all through history...the europeans attacked and killed many of the Irish and Scottish people they called the Druids simply because they felt they was richer and more "high class" and felt their belifs was superior than anyone elses. Maybe you feel slavery was right. Maybe you feel that people who opressed and enslaved people then freed them and told them they shall always have the same rights as themself and always be seem as their brothers and sisters...then go against that word of bond...is the way of our native people. When our native people attacked our rival tribes it sure was not to take their heritage away, we sure did not go to the Europeans and say....hey them are fake tribes help us go and attack them. Now if you try and say the tribes the Federal Cherokee is attacking is mixed bloods, I encourage you to go to any of the Federal Cherokee reservations, spend a day there, and then come back and try to use that....all I'll say on the Federal Cherokee attack tribes because those tribes are mixed bloods....you defiently have not been to a Federal Cherokee reservation....so these state recognized tribes being mixed bloods can't be a defence.....
Are you serious? do you bother to think before you speak, you realize that you are speaking to native folks most of whom are born and bred on the Rez, or are you so impressed with your own work that you can't see past your own splendidnous? The struggles of the Native in america, are you serious, do you even know what those are? And you don't need to encourage me to go anywhere, although I have a few suggestions for where YOU can GO. I was born on the rez, and was raised on the rez. I think you need to stop watching Dances with Wolves, pull your head out of your butt, and stick to your own little world, I think you would be much happier there. You sound like one of these flakes from the fake tribes, calling yourself John, Mule Deer Soaring Eagle, Smith- er, wait smith aint NDN enough, Wapanahe, yeah that's more like it. Do us all a favor, run up a flag pole and holler fish.

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I am confused by what your saying are you only talking about Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma?
United Keetoowah Band?
Eastern Cherokee Band?
They are all one and the same tribe! We all speak the same language and we share the same culture
As for what we are now called that was our Government doing that is a political issue
We are recognized as such because as a group we remained together through thick and thin
Those tribes are made up of Families that are related to each other I have kinfolks in each of those tribes
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!
I have no kinfolks in any of the other groups that claim they are Cherokee.

As for the Freedman issue that was brought up by our previous chief who was voted out of office! The people did indeed spoke with the ballot...
Josiah, you should know better by now than to argue with an expert.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:46 PM   #19
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:05 PM   #20
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