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Old 04-29-2006, 06:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MizzJingleChic19
I've noticed that alot with the Cherokee tribe. I think its unreasonable how many people claim to be cherokee when they do not even look native. I think its just wrong.


"how many people "CLAIM" okay...well....I AM A CHEROKEE/Choctaw mix:no doubt...I have Dark hair AND dark eyes....but because the German people in my family and the German Blood that ALSO runs through my veins my skin is a lil "OFF" i'm a lil white and proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....and for ur info....just because someone doesn't "LOOK" ndn enough for YOU does NOT mean they aren't wat they say they are....YOU are starting to sound like an arrogant white person to me....watch wat you say plz...wado...have a nice day...
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Old 05-04-2006, 08:15 AM   #22
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siksika call themselves blackfoot! but heres a story from the blackfoot confederacy on how their names came to be today.

the blackfoot confederacy were surrounded by enemy tribes from all sides. the nation decided to split themselves into three campsin order to protect themselves. one group went southeast to protect against the sioux, assiniboines and the crows, the second camp went to the south west to guard against the tribes that resided in the rocky mtns, the final band went to the north to protect against the crees. a man from the northern camp traveled south to visit the other bands. on his journey he passed through an area of prarie that had been scorched by a fire. as he arrived at the southeastern camp, he asked to be introduced to the chief and was surprised that all he spoke to claimed to be the chief. the man called them the tribe of "many chiefs" (kainai). this term evolved in to the word kainai, the term in which the blood tribe calls themselves. the people of the southeast camp remarked about the northern man's moccasins and call his people blackfoot (siksika). the man then traveled to the southwestern camp and discovered that the women were not tanning their hides properly out of laziness. many of the men could be seen wearing hides with flesh and little bits of hair still attached to them. as a result, the traveler from the north called them "scabby hides" (apikuni). the word apikuni eventually became the word "peigan" but today the tribe uses the name Pikuni.
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Old 05-04-2006, 08:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandsTallWoman
Hi Singerdad, long time no talk. How are you? Remember I claimed both Cherokee and Blackfoot? I'm one of the people ::shamlessly raising my hand:: lolz.

I would like to share with you all by saying that a year ago, I said that my Blackfoot ancestor are from South Carolina. Singerdad, you were one of the people to correct me by telling me that they were the Dakotas.

I would like to thank you for straightening out the difference between Blackfoot and Blackfeet. I hope that all is well with you. Keep in touch. Take care. Peace and blessings to you and your family.
yo tiffany i also corrected you. awhile back on hi5!!
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Old 05-04-2006, 08:22 PM   #24
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yo tiffany i also corrected you. awhile back on hi5!!
yes you did louie! how are you doing? long time no talk. :-)
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Old 08-24-2006, 07:09 PM   #25
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re the confusion

Hey Folks, re. the Blackfoot Cherokee people, you so well informed people need to check out a web site called " Saponi Town".
Many of the members have had DNA studies done that ... do debunk your junk on the mislead theories.
Ya that's correct these peole are as real as you and I real and are mixed Indian folks, much like Cnada's Metis etc, just like everyone else blood quantum varies and so does skin tone and facial features (if that is how you define a native American person).. just like many other eastern sea board Native people these folks are mixed and scattered all across the USA.
In the west, most tribes have had 150 years of contact with western civi. but on the east coast, it's mosre like 500, remeber James Town.
So rather than just taking everyones low browed gossip for truth check out what these people are saying about themselves, sounds well based to me.
Did you ever hear that the USA wiped out 100 tribes in 100 years, well maybe they didn't get everyone.
I have no comment on Jamake Highwater or anyone else, but I guess if I thought that I was going to loose my skin tone and go blond I might come up with some one else's junk, really just because your part white doesn't mean your less of a person than a full blood.!
Just remember this "a gentle hand is better than a kick in the pants"!
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Old 08-25-2006, 11:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsapaha
Hey Folks, re. the Blackfoot Cherokee people, you so well informed people need to check out a web site called " Saponi Town".

Many of the members have had DNA studies done that ... do debunk your junk on the mislead theories.

six,

*L DNA doesn't prove you're Indian. It proves you have DNA comparable to Indian people.

If you tried to give a DNA sample to the Blackfeet Nation in order to become a member of the Blackfeet Nation, good luck.
They, as a sovereign nation, have the legal authority to decide who their tribal members are. . . and more importantly who aren't.

__



How come so many people claim Blackfoot instead of.....




Blackheads?



*L

j/k
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Old 08-25-2006, 04:12 PM   #27
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Perhaps you need to educate yourself on what DNA tests really are!
AS for wanting to be a Montana Blackfoot, WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?????
Perhaps you need to just reply to what was posted and not jump to conclusions.
NO one I know wants to be a Montana Blackfoot!
I guess what a disscussion like this really adds up to is what you might think you are going to loose!
Really no one I know wants to be anyone else, just that the oral history passed down is not to be disrespected!
Trying to educate people re. this topic is a primary goal here, it's not anything else.
I'd like for people just to really consider the facts, and realize that with this topic, Andrew jackson (white washing America) did not win, and many people do know who they are!
If these same people said that they were Southern Metis would you people still feel the same way?
But really thanks for your reply it just lets the "Southern Metis" people from many tribal groups just what it is that they are up against.
Lastly I promise you you haven't lost anything but may have gained a little insight into southern studies, please in closing when you do post a quote make sure that it is all the statement and not just portions of it!
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Old 08-25-2006, 04:26 PM   #28
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Six,

My point is, DNA doesn't make you Indian.
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Old 08-25-2006, 06:04 PM   #29
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I realize that!
The tests have been done to clarify the blood quantum issues, ( some were nearly demanded by gov. members) and aswell for many there was no link to African families, which disqualifies the theories that abound re. this ID.
Members of the Eastern communities with this ID are often from state or federally recognized tribes, and because of the ill based theories that abound they are being forced to deny thier families oral history.
To me that sounds really familiar and is exactly what many geneocidal ploys have intended.
There's a growing body of mixed blood people that are looking at thier families history and are looking for the facts that either qualify or deny thier oral traditions.
To date most have found that families all locate in time to a geographical area, prior to 1820 when Virginia and NC, said that if you are not white you're black and we'll enslave you, so a mass exodus began and people moved into Tn KY and many other areas to get out of the slavers laws.
Forcing the first waves of mixed bloods from the eastern areas of this country west and east.
From what I can understand many people only want to regain what thier families have lost and nothing else., especially what is not thiers to claim!
thanks for your post!
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Old 08-25-2006, 09:51 PM   #30
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Dang sixsapaha. you sure are an angry person when somebody doesn't agree with you.

I do think you are right as far as the european contact timeline. There was longer anglo contact on the eastern seaboard. And there was a racial mixture, or maybe I should say a racial tri-mixture, longer on the eastern seaboard the in the middle of turtle island. It has been noted that there was a Siouan language on the east coast. Does this mean there is a direct connection to the Sioux in and around South Dakota. I don't think so. DNA may conclude that there might be similarities to indigenous people, but it's like grabbing at straws. I have sat with elders born in the late 1800's/early 1900's, who lived in NC. I've heard their stories of where they remember coming from geographically. They had an oral history, but courthouse records were burned in a fire. They knew who they were without a DNA test.

On a final note. I knew a woman from NC who said she was black. All her features were black. Years later, I saw where she was enrolled in one of those 'pay for your heritage' tribes. I wonder if she was black/indian or black hoping to be indian.


Is sapaha the same as hasapa?
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Old 08-27-2006, 09:59 PM   #31
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Post Sixsapaha

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsapaha
Hey Folks, re. the Blackfoot Cherokee people, you so well informed people need to check out a web site called " Saponi Town"

Sixsapaha, I was told that my mother's ancestors are either Saponi or Waccamaw. I am pretty confident that my great-great grandmother is a full-blooded Waccamaw, not Saponi. I will definitely check out the Saponi Town website.
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Old 08-28-2006, 12:32 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsapaha
please in closing when you do post a quote make sure that it is all the statement and not just portions of it!
The reason we take part of a post to quote is that is the part that we comment on....... if everyone posted whole posts it would fill the pages too fast and become confusing. Also if people have a thought about what was quoted they just go back and read the whole thing in context.

Hope I didn't just upset ya by taking a portion of your post and quoting it....oops
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Old 08-28-2006, 02:17 AM   #33
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Okay since DNA is being talked about...I have to chime in. As to my knowledge there are only two forms of DNA testing that I know of that could be used to track lineage. Both are based on genetic markers (mutations) in the DNA that are specific to certain groups of people based on migratory routes of people. You see, minute mutations in the genes occur on a regular basis and thus can be used to track population movements and backtrack origins and ancestors. One is male based and the other female. The only way for them to work correctly is for them to be passed from father to son or mother to daughter down the generations. If a woman has all sons or man has all daughters, then that genetic line stops cold for that parent and the other parents gene line takes over. With this, a full blood NDN can show the same genetic markers as a person that had a single native ancestor 11 generations back as long as the father/son, mother/daughter lines were unbroken. Also, if a full blood male married a nonnative and had a daughter, and that child married the same way and had a son...all the genetic markers for native populations would be gone from the child's genes even though the child may still look native. This is the reason geneticist look for isolated communities of people to do their DNA tests on to find the markers they use to track populations and migrations of people. To this point there is no genetic tests that could prove the above mentioned child was actually 1/4 native...maybe someday but not currently. So proving blood quantum by genetic testing is complete BS. It can show if you had a ancestor that was native, only if the lines were unbroken, but not how far back. That native ancestor might be one's parent but could also be their GGGGGGGG Great grandparent, either way the test would have the same result if the line were unbroken.

Next...why do the Metis have to be drawn into this. The Metis people are descendants of Anglo (mostly french and Scottish) fur traders and 'Northern' native women. Yes, they are mixed bloods but all mixed bloods should not and are not to be included with them and especially not people of southeastern, southwestern, eastern, southern plains or west coast tribal ancestry. The Metis' native ancestry comes from a specific geographic region. There is no such thing as 'Southern Metis' and the only thing the people that claim this are up against is the truth. I have no doubt that most of the people claiming 'Southern Metis' have some native ancestry, but latching onto the Metis name just because they know Metis are mixed blood is down right disrespectful to the true Metis. I am sorry that many of these folks do not know what to call themselves because they do not know what tribe their ancestor/s came from, but calling themselves Metis is wrong. The Metis became what they are because they formed their own communties and melded their various cultures to form a new one, they are a unique people among native tribes and should not be disrespected in such a manor.

There's my 2 lincolns
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Old 08-28-2006, 12:47 PM   #34
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ok.... here's another 2 cents....

As a way to explain the number of mixed people out east, Sixsapaha said: "In the west, most tribes have had 150 years of contact with western civi. but on the east coast, it's mosre like 500, remeber James Town."

Let's clarify a few details here.... sustained contact has only lasted for 400 years in most of the Atlantic US...... And yeah, I remember Jamestown.... it was founded in 1610s, so that's actually LESS than 400 years.

AND.... here in the SW, there has been sustained contact with Euros and other colonists since Coronado came through between 1538-1541, so that's 450 years of Euro contact out in the "West" which Sixsapaha said has only had 150 years of contact.

MOREOVER..... Here in the SW, after 450 years of contact, there are still PLENTY of FULLBLOOD Pueblos, Navajos, Apaches, Utes, Supais, Pimas, Tohono O'odams - I could go on and on naming tribes with high #'s of fullbloods, but you get the picture.

SOOOO.... # of years of contact obviously doesn't explain jack when it comes to new-age, hippy-trippy wannabeeeeees claiming to be "Cherokee and Blackfoot."
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Old 08-28-2006, 07:05 PM   #35
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Hey Joe's Dad, no Iam really not very angry, but when others tell me who Iam I do feel astho' I do have the right to defend myself.
Iam not speaking for everyone, just me, so don't let what I have to say about this topic effect other people that you may meet in the future.
I do know that we have a very long oral history in my family of who we are, the DNA test was not donre to define our heritage but to help support the need to protect family!
I agree the eastern seaboard does have a much longer history than other places and the people from there have needed to hide in many ways to just survive., but that doesn't make them any less than anyone else.
The Blackfoot Cherokee people are "Real People", and they know it.
Many web sites out there have tried to debase the claim but several after I exchanged info. with them changed thier stories, but have yet to alter thier web sites.
What can I say?
Finally if I ever do come across as upset, it is because I know who I am and do not need anyone to tell me who Iam or insult me by doing so.
I wouldn't tell anyone that they are really siberians, and its that tone that gets to me.
There's 3rd dna test , the 3rd one does move between genders, the sorry if you thought I was including sw, people in western terms, thier southwest not central west, Dakotas etc.
The term Metis is a french term not a Michif term so get it right just like Melungeon is a old world French term not an Eastern Souian one.
However you call it James Town did have a degree on out marriage, they did pass laws to stop thier folks from leaving! was my point.
Name calling is really low, and as for people claiming Cherokee ancestry, there are many voting enrolled members that have a low blood quantum and still vote, sorry I hope that you figure out what the difference is between political issues and racial ones, treaties are political, genecidal ones are racial!

Last edited by sixsapaha; 08-28-2006 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 08-29-2006, 09:06 AM   #36
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So, you're saying that the Blackfoot Cherokee is a group of people and not people who are Cherokee and Blackfoot?
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:51 PM   #37
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I found out from somebody on PowWow.com emailed and told me that DNA Test does not let anyone know which tribe we belong to. DNA can tell us the precentage of Native blood that we have. The only way that you can found out the exact ancestral tribe, then you need to search for a reputable anthropogist. I find these information to be interesting and I just want to share the info with you all.


P.S. I couldn't agree with you more sixsapaha, Str8Dancer49 and powwowbum49.
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandsTallWoman
I found out from somebody on PowWow.com emailed and told me that DNA Test does not let anyone know which tribe we belong to. DNA can tell us the precentage of Native blood that we have. The only way that you can found out the exact ancestral tribe, then you need to search for a reputable anthropogist. I find these information to be interesting and I just want to share the info with you all.


P.S. I couldn't agree with you more sixsapaha, Str8Dancer49 and powwowbum49.
You're right Stands,

DNA can tell you that you have blood matching natives, but it cannot tell you what tribe you are.

I'm not sure about your statement that an anthropologist can determine what ancestral tribe you are.

For instance, there is not an antropologist alive that can tell somebody they are definitely "Cherokee/Blackfoot."



I do know that it is the tribe's themselves that determine who is in their membership... and who is not.
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Last edited by WhoMe; 08-29-2006 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 08-29-2006, 04:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
...I do know that it is the tribe's themselves that determine who is in their membership... and who is not.
Good point, and that's the way it should be.
In some cases this membership has nothing to do with blood quantum. With at least two nations that I know of, enrollment is based on historic Federal Rolls. There were "affiliated whites" on some of those rolls. There were also people of those nations who did not sign, for various reasons, and therefore were not enrolled.
Even if DNA science advances to the point that a test can tell you what nation your ancestors belonged to, that doesn't automatically make you a member of that nation.
Not trying to start any fights or open any worm cans. Just stating the facts.
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:00 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazben
Good point, and that's the way it should be.
In some cases this membership has nothing to do with blood quantum. With at least two nations that I know of, enrollment is based on historic Federal Rolls. There were "affiliated whites" on some of those rolls. There were also people of those nations who did not sign, for various reasons, and therefore were not enrolled.
Even if DNA science advances to the point that a test can tell you what nation your ancestors belonged to, that doesn't automatically make you a member of that nation.
Not trying to start any fights or open any worm cans. Just stating the facts.
Hazben,

This is so true. There are many white individuals whose ancestors signed these federal roles but have didn't have Indian blood. There are decendents of black slaves who have no Indian blood, whose ancestors signed some federal roles as well. They are called 'freedmen.'

There are several southeastern tribes who are facing the issue of whether or not to allow freedmen to remain on their tribal roles. I think this is significant. Come to think of it some Cali tribes have also kicked out some of their members whose ancestors were supposedly not Indian but signed roles.

I certainly wouldn't want any nonIndians whose ancestors signed a paper on my tribal roles. Would you?

*L several freedmen have brought their internet ordered DNA tests to court!
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Last edited by WhoMe; 08-29-2006 at 05:03 PM..
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