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Old 04-01-2008, 07:53 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Saponi-Tribe View Post
And if anyone still thinks Federal recognition is the one and only way to prove if someone is indian.....

Then just look around the reservations...just look around them....was federal recognition worth putting the tribe in poverty..........I'm sure some reservations are living nice and are saying what poverty.......here is a question to them.....look around your reservation.....where is all your tribal members......where is all the descendants of those that fought side by side with your ancestors...the descendants of those that hunted side by side with your ancestors........
was federal recognition worth denying these descendants what runs thru their blood......sure your mom is on the tribal roll but if you date a white person or black person then your child will Not be a part of our tribe..........sure your great great grand parents was part of our tribe but they ran and hid during the Indian removal so you can't be accepted as part of the tribe..........or sure your great great grand parents was part of our tribe and signed the treaty but we can't read their hand writing....if they knew how to write in the European style better than maybe you could be part of your great great grandparents tribes..........yea sure federal recognition proves who is a Indian and who is not a Indian
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Originally Posted by Saponi-Tribe View Post
Actually Whome...A DNA test Does prove if your Indian or not.

I guess in your idea...a DNA test would not prove who a person's parents are. However that part of your theory has been proven wrong in courts.

Or maybe your going by a theory that a person is not a Indian unless they are part of a federally recognized tribe.

I hate to say it WhoMe but Blood makes a person Indian...not being part of a federally recognized tribe.

DNA can prove without a doubt if a person is Indian or not.

You should really learn about DNA before making a comment like "DNA does not prove your indian".

I'm sorry but I had to comment on this because it really angers me when someone wants to say anything which will deny a person's ancestors....BLOOD is BLOOD....ANCESTORS IS ANCESTORS....FEDERAL RECOGNITION is NOT the authority on who is Indian and who is not Indian. Federal recognition is NOT tradition......find one tribe anywhere which traditionally required their tribe members to be on some government paper.....thats European tradition not native Indian tradition.
And seriously....find one tribe that had a tradition of not accepting a tribe member because they married outside their race......Indian tribes had white women in their tribe and the white male settlers had indian women with them....alot of black men and women lived and became parts of tribes....the children of these mixed relationships was still excepted as members by the tribes....this is TRUE tradition.........and if you read alot of the "Original" treaties which alot of federal tribes have used to get their recognition....you'll see on some which says the stuff was to be for the people who signed the treaties and their "Desendants".....no where on the "original" treaties does it even state a amount of blood...ONLY "Descendants".........you will not find a single treaty anywhere which has a blood amount added in the treaty.....that was something added in recent times by money hungry people which has caught what is considered "today's gold fever".....the less people a tribe has the less people they have to share profits with.....best way to get people off the tribe is to add some blood amount ( something as stated before was never ever added to ANY treaty). I would love for someone to show me a "Original" treaty which said any of the tribe had to have a blood amount to be part of the treaty.....

WhoMe....I am never coming back to this site because of you...you have seriously sickened me by your statement.....and if this was back in the 1600 and 1700's and you made a statement like that you would probally have been sent away from your tribe.........you NEVER deny a person's ancestors....and when you say DNA does not prove a person is indian......that is exactly what you have done.....I'm sick...sick to my stomach of soooo many people who are going around claiming they are Indian just because of a federal recognition.......federal recognition is a piece of paper...a piece of freaking paper...when was the last time you ever cut a piece of paper and saw it drip blood????? When paper bleeds thats the day federal recognition can prove who is Indian and who is not Indian.

My direct blood line ancestors come from 5 tribes....I have federal government records and Court records dating as far back as the 1600's which state my direct blood line ancestors was Indians and states which tribes they came from.....one of my direct blood line ancestor came from the Indian school......but you know what.....them papers does not prove I'm indian......my blood proves who I am. My father proves who I am...my mother proves who I am...my grand parents prove who i am....

Like i said.. I will never be back to this site....I am sick to my stomach at WhoMe's comment.......I am sick to my stomach at some of the comments I have ran across on this message board as well about people wanting to hate on the black people that come to this site. I will fight till the day I day for ALL my people....I will never ever Deny a single one of my brothers or sisters.....no govt will ever tell me who my brothers and sisters are....my ancestors tell me who my brothers and sisters are......

AND THAT IS HOW YOU TELL WHO IS INDIAN AND WHO IS NOT INDIAN.....Federal recognition is a European tradition NOT a native Indian tradition.
Good Morning
From what I have been reading on the subject, DNA testing will not by itself prove you are Indian.
And even more importantly the testing currently is only through the Mother's side of the line. It cant tell you what family or even how much, it will just give you indications of certain markers that they have determined are Native American. Invest in a good genealogists and dont waste your money on DNA testing.
Decendancy is still the only way to enroll in a tribe Federally or State recognized right now.

I know of some others on this website that have posted about this subjects who could be considered experts on the subject.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:18 AM   #142
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Cherokee/blackfoot.

I know that I am Native American but I dont know what tribe.
Does anybody know of a good DNA testing center that I could contact so I can kinda start to find out what tribe I might be from?
Thanks
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:31 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuwatiman View Post
I know that I am Native American but I dont know what tribe.
Does anybody know of a good DNA testing center that I could contact so I can kinda start to find out what tribe I might be from?
Thanks
There are two types of DNA test that are useful for genealogical testing; the Y-chromosome (Y-DNA) test and the mitochondrial (mtDNA) test. The mitochondrial DNA test can be used to establish a direct female line, but in order to trace the surname which is usually passed from father to son, it is necessary to carry out Y-chromosome testing.

The Y test only works for females...it is a mother's mother's mother's mother's mother type of test only.

Y Dna test is for males....it tests father's father's father's father's father etc.


Y-chromosomes are inherited from father to son and remain mostly unaltered from generation to generation. This makes the Y-chromosomes an ideal focus for genealogical studies because, barring adoption or illegitimacy, the Y-markers will follow the surname. By determining the Y-markers of males bearing the same or similar surnames it is possible to determine, with a high degree of confidence, whether or not the Jermy males have a common paternal ancestor.

While Y-chromosome markers are handed down from father to son mostly unchanged from generation to generation there is a small probability that a mutation will occur for each birth. These mutations are not a completely random process and are predictable to a certain extent. Each specific location on a chromosome has its own mutation rate, but at present the specific rates for each are unknown. An overall average is about one mutation every five generations.

Here is a good web site to check out.
h t t p : // americanindiandna . c o m/


Now while the DNA test prove without a doubt you are native American.....you asked which tribe...thats where you are going to have to find out your family tree and find out where they was......then you need to look thru tribes that was in them areas and see if any of them tribes have any of your family tree's surnames......now if them tribes does not have any of your family tree surnames then you need to check old court records and government documents related to that tribe (alot of times people not on the rolls will actually be on old documents made before current rolls)........also you have to keep in mind many tribes are actually made up of various "bands".....many "bands" joined together when their numbers started dropping.....The creek indians, Saponi, Cherokee, Catawba, Seminole, etc are made up in this way.
Just like how the Lakota is made up of various "bands".

w w w . ancestry . c o m is a good place to look thru census records (but to use this you have to know your family members that was alive in 1930 since census record go from 1790-1930).

When peopl mention Cherokee....they run into a problem....many many many people during the late 1800's and early 1900's had started calling themself whatever indian tribe was in the area they was living in.......this is why you'll have people on things like the guion miller roll which was listed as "doubtful".......during the 1800's many of the bands was migrating to many other areas and was starting to live with other tribes......There was even Catawba living on the Poarch creek reservation. Some of the Powhatan are even considered Cherokee..........a big confusion with this type of stuff is also people that say their family story is that they came from pocahantas......what this really means is their family came from "powhatan" since Pocahontas had moved out of the USa and died out of the USA.....her name was even changed from Pocahontas to "Rebecca Rolfe".

But yea I hope this helps you.....

I'd say one of the best places to do a search for cherokee ancestry is to check out this website
and do searches for you family last names

h t t p : // w w w . accessgenealogy . c o m/native/commission . p h p

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Old 04-01-2008, 03:01 PM   #144
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NO DNA test can tell you what tribe you are from, unless you can match your dna to someone living who is enrolled with a native nation already. Some make the claim they can but they cannot, so don't be suckered into believing it and paying good money to be told 17% inconclusive.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:22 PM   #145
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:25 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saponi-Tribe View Post
There are two types of DNA test that are useful for genealogical testing; the Y-chromosome (Y-DNA) test and the mitochondrial (mtDNA) test. The mitochondrial DNA test can be used to establish a direct female line, but in order to trace the surname which is usually passed from father to son, it is necessary to carry out Y-chromosome testing.

The Y test only works for females...it is a mother's mother's mother's mother's mother type of test only.

Y Dna test is for males....it tests father's father's father's father's father etc.


Y-chromosomes are inherited from father to son and remain mostly unaltered from generation to generation. This makes the Y-chromosomes an ideal focus for genealogical studies because, barring adoption or illegitimacy, the Y-markers will follow the surname. By determining the Y-markers of males bearing the same or similar surnames it is possible to determine, with a high degree of confidence, whether or not the Jermy males have a common paternal ancestor.

While Y-chromosome markers are handed down from father to son mostly unchanged from generation to generation there is a small probability that a mutation will occur for each birth. These mutations are not a completely random process and are predictable to a certain extent. Each specific location on a chromosome has its own mutation rate, but at present the specific rates for each are unknown. An overall average is about one mutation every five generations.

Here is a good web site to check out.
h t t p : // americanindiandna . c o m/


Now while the DNA test prove without a doubt you are native American.....you asked which tribe...thats where you are going to have to find out your family tree and find out where they was......then you need to look thru tribes that was in them areas and see if any of them tribes have any of your family tree's surnames......now if them tribes does not have any of your family tree surnames then you need to check old court records and government documents related to that tribe (alot of times people not on the rolls will actually be on old documents made before current rolls)........also you have to keep in mind many tribes are actually made up of various "bands".....many "bands" joined together when their numbers started dropping.....The creek indians, Saponi, Cherokee, Catawba, Seminole, etc are made up in this way.
Just like how the Lakota is made up of various "bands".

w w w . ancestry . c o m is a good place to look thru census records (but to use this you have to know your family members that was alive in 1930 since census record go from 1790-1930).

When peopl mention Cherokee....they run into a problem....many many many people during the late 1800's and early 1900's had started calling themself whatever indian tribe was in the area they was living in.......this is why you'll have people on things like the guion miller roll which was listed as "doubtful".......during the 1800's many of the bands was migrating to many other areas and was starting to live with other tribes......There was even Catawba living on the Poarch creek reservation. Some of the Powhatan are even considered Cherokee..........a big confusion with this type of stuff is also people that say their family story is that they came from pocahantas......what this really means is their family came from "powhatan" since Pocahontas had moved out of the USa and died out of the USA.....her name was even changed from Pocahontas to "Rebecca Rolfe".

But yea I hope this helps you.....

I'd say one of the best places to do a search for cherokee ancestry is to check out this website
and do searches for you family last names

h t t p : // w w w . accessgenealogy . c o m/native/commission . p h p
Which if you sum all this up you have to know your ancestors in order to go any further
You can not start with your DNA as a sample and go in and they will tell you yes you belong to the SO and So Family of the SO and SO Tribe

All they can tell you is that you have "markers" that indicate you have somewhere in your past a Indian ancestor
Not how much
Not whom
Not even What Tribe

That is it
It is a waste of Money

For the same amount of Money you can Hire a Genealogist that can at least find some ancestor that if at the end of the day you actually have an Indian blood the paperwork you receive can actually be used to enroll
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:48 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Which if you sum all this up you have to know your ancestors in order to go any further
You can not start with your DNA as a sample and go in and they will tell you yes you belong to the SO and So Family of the SO and SO Tribe

All they can tell you is that you have "markers" that indicate you have somewhere in your past a Indian ancestor
Not how much
Not whom
Not even What Tribe

That is it
It is a waste of Money

For the same amount of Money you can Hire a Genealogist that can at least find some ancestor that if at the end of the day you actually have an Indian blood the paperwork you receive can actually be used to enroll
Just wish it was that easy to enroll in tribes now days lol

Tribes now days have started making it nearly impossible for people to enroll unless their parents or grand parents was enrolled........and even then some tribes have came up with a way to still keep their tribe small by bringing in "oh you have to live here".....or "you have to have a certain ammount of blood".....there is soo many other little things which will keep people from being able to join a tribe now days......

This is why I have the utter most respect for tribes that have never ever tried to get state or federal recognition....alot of people may want to call them not indians because they have no state or federal recognition.....but guess what.....no Government can tell them what to do and they can run their tribe anyway they want.

It has never been indian tradition to have the Government become the chief.....and if you really think about it...thats what starts to happen once tribes get federal recognition.

you know....I've even been told that a a tribe can not even be called a tribe unless the USA government says yes.....when does indians have to get european's ok to do something our ancestors did.....when did indians start allowing europeans to tell us who is indian and who is not indian....and when did indians start accepting this????
It's not our tradition.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:08 PM   #148
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I've noticed that alot with the Cherokee tribe. I think its unreasonable how many people claim to be cherokee when they do not even look native. I think its just wrong.

I guess they claim it because their "grandmother was full blood Cherokee with hair down to here," or she was "an Indian princess." LOL! But seriously, you said, "they do not even look native." What does that mean? How would an individaul have to look to look native? Just asking!
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:34 PM   #149
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Dang sixsapaha. you sure are an angry person when somebody doesn't agree with you.

I do think you are right as far as the european contact timeline. There was longer anglo contact on the eastern seaboard. And there was a racial mixture, or maybe I should say a racial tri-mixture, longer on the eastern seaboard the in the middle of turtle island. It has been noted that there was a Siouan language on the east coast. Does this mean there is a direct connection to the Sioux in and around South Dakota. I don't think so. DNA may conclude that there might be similarities to indigenous people, but it's like grabbing at straws. I have sat with elders born in the late 1800's/early 1900's, who lived in NC. I've heard their stories of where they remember coming from geographically. They had an oral history, but courthouse records were burned in a fire. They knew who they were without a DNA test.

On a final note. I knew a woman from NC who said she was black. All her features were black. Years later, I saw where she was enrolled in one of those 'pay for your heritage' tribes. I wonder if she was black/indian or black hoping to be indian.


Is sapaha the same as hasapa?

She could be Indian wanting to keep her black status because both groups are oppressed people and the KKK lynched just as many ndns as blacks. Being Indian sure would not benefit her any at all unless she just wants to know her Ancestors and learn all that she can about the customs and traditions of her ndn people because the KKK seem to be focusing on the Mexicans now and we know that basically many Mexican People are descendants of the North American Indians. I personally know several Indian people that know they are Indian but they are listed as black and they don't change it because it does not matter to them. They know that both races are in the same situation. I too have listened to the Elders tell stories. I know Lumbee People that live in Roberson County, I know Halawia Saponi People that live in Halifax County, I know Meherrin people that live in Hertford County, and I know Tuscarora People that live in Maxton that claim to be black because they simply want to. And I'm sure that lots of people reading this post know that I'm telling the truth.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:46 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Saponi-Tribe View Post
Just wish it was that easy to enroll in tribes now days lol

Tribes now days have started making it nearly impossible for people to enroll unless their parents or grand parents was enrolled........and even then some tribes have came up with a way to still keep their tribe small by bringing in "oh you have to live here".....or "you have to have a certain ammount of blood".....there is soo many other little things which will keep people from being able to join a tribe now days......

This is why I have the utter most respect for tribes that have never ever tried to get state or federal recognition....alot of people may want to call them not indians because they have no state or federal recognition.....but guess what.....no Government can tell them what to do and they can run their tribe anyway they want.

It has never been indian tradition to have the Government become the chief.....and if you really think about it...thats what starts to happen once tribes get federal recognition.

you know....I've even been told that a a tribe can not even be called a tribe unless the USA government says yes.....when does indians have to get european's ok to do something our ancestors did.....when did indians start allowing europeans to tell us who is indian and who is not indian....and when did indians start accepting this????
It's not our tradition.

I'll be glad when everyone can see the truth and that is the government simply wants "DIVIDE & CONQUER!" Remember it was the government that said, "THE ONLY GOOD INDIAN IS A DEAD INDIAN." I truly wish that we could stand as "ONE!" What I mean by "one" is one heart and one spirit. I don't mean that all the different ndn nations should become one nation. We are the land and as long as we hate each other, the person that wants us to hate each other will take our land whatever else he wants and leave us with hateful hearts so that we can kill each other off!
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:11 PM   #151
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I'll be glad when everyone can see the truth and that is the government simply wants "DIVIDE & CONQUER!" Remember it was the government that said, "THE ONLY GOOD INDIAN IS A DEAD INDIAN." I truly wish that we could stand as "ONE!" What I mean by "one" is one heart and one spirit. I don't mean that all the different ndn nations should become one nation. We are the land and as long as we hate each other, the person that wants us to hate each other will take our land whatever else he wants and leave us with hateful hearts so that we can kill each other off!

they even got tribal leaders arguing with other tribal leaders over who should get recognition first lol There is even federal tribes that are arguing that other tribes near them are trying to get federal recognition.

And lets not forget about certain tribal leaders which never will reply to any e-mail messages lol.....or the ones that seem to be on vacation every day of the year when tribal offices are called on the phone lol

Here is the best one...umm how do I enroll in your tribe.....oh you give us your name and we will check our roll and see if your on our roll.....ok ummm is there anyway I can know who is on your roll or look at your roll to see if any of my ancestors are listed......no we do not let anyone know who is on our roll....lol You have to love that one hahahaha For certain tribes that claim they want to bring all their tribe back together they sure don't want anyone knowing whats on their roll lol Them good ole most sacred secret rolls which may or may not exist lol

Here is another good one....original treaty lists 100 surnames...but tribe only has 10 of them surnames on their roll and refuse to allow the other 90 surnames onto their roll.....and funny part is they will have 5 or more surnames that never was associated with the 100 surnames listed on the original treaty. Ask them about the other 90 surname families and the tribal leaders may try and say....oh they died of small pox and was killed.......then when census records are showed to them showing that all 90 surname families are listed as having moved one state away grouped together....of course the tribal leaders have nothing more to say hahaha

RainbowspiritDancer you are right...it is classic divide and conquer....that was how the europeans and french took over............unity has been tooken away. Like check this out.....a reservation out in oklahoma....a korean family actually was allowed to build a factory right next to the reservation.....it had destroyed not only the air and water on that reservation but this black cancer causing dirt stuff was covering the cars, trees, houses, etc.........it is a attempted genocide upon that reservation......ask anyone in America about it and I bet they are not aware of it........once your divided then no one will know when you are in need of help....
but now when the trade center was attacked the whole world knew about it that very moment. when you turn your tv on and you see that old man with the beard walking around talking about starving children in some country somewhere and talking about sending in money, umm when was the last time you've seen a reservation put on tv with someone trying to help get them food and supplies.

Why does some tribal leaders refuse to let their tribe members know what their tribal funds are beng spent on.

Biggest question of all still stands....why is their still indians that claim a person is not indian unless they are in a state or federally recoginized tribe?!?

divide and conquer is right.....it happened many moons ago.....one by one the tribes of america got taken out......one by one....one by one...taken out.
anyone know how many indians lived in america before the 1600's? anyone know how many there was in 1800?
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:28 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Saponi-Tribe View Post

This is why I have the utter most respect for tribes that have never ever tried to get state or federal recognition....alot of people may want to call them not indians because they have no state or federal recognition.....but guess what.....no Government can tell them what to do and they can run their tribe anyway they want.
I think you are missing the point of federal recognition...

Quote:
It has never been indian tradition to have the Government become the chief.....and if you really think about it...thats what starts to happen once tribes get federal recognition.

you know....I've even been told that a a tribe can not even be called a tribe unless the USA government says yes.....when does indians have to get european's ok to do something our ancestors did.....when did indians start allowing europeans to tell us who is indian and who is not indian....and when did indians start accepting this????
It's not our tradition.
Ok see you can be a tribe. There are african tribes, and scottish tribes... I've been tryign to explain this to someone on another forum who's having the same difficulty as you in understanding some of this. So I'm gonna take this slow and easy and try to make this easy for anyone to understand...

First off the word tribe and it's definition:
1. A unit of sociopolitical organization consisting of a number of families, clans, or other groups who share a common ancestry and culture and among whom leadership is typically neither formalized nor permanent.
2. A political, ethnic, or ancestral division of ancient states and cultures, especially:
a. Any of the three divisions of the ancient Romans, namely, the Latin, Sabine, and Etruscan.
b. Any of the 12 divisions of ancient Israel.
c. A phyle of ancient Greece.
3. A group of people sharing an occupation, interest, or habit: a tribe of graduate students.
4. Informal A large family.
5. Biology A taxonomic category placed between a subfamily and a genus or between a suborder and a family and usually containing several genera.


So as you can see it's an informal name... loosely used because the people who started calling indian nations "tribes" did not want to see them as the independant nations that they were but as small family groups of one large body of people that spanned the continent... loosely formed without a formalized government. But that was'nt the case, but these new "tribes" are exactly that. This is why I say the word tribe should be replaced with the word "club", or "organization".

Now why would you need Europe to recognize you to be such? Because Federal or Foreign recognition is just that, the federal governments of any large nation recognizing YOUR people as a separate entitiy, a nation of people themselves to be approached on a government to government level, not as stepchildren of another country or an organization or business. It means you have your own government that is to be taken seriously, and it leads your people, not the foreign governments. It makes it's own laws and decides it's criteria for nationhood on it's own.



Main Entry: sov·er·eign·ty
Variant(s): also sov·ran·ty \-tē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural sov·er·eign·ties
Etymology: Middle English soverainte, from Anglo-French sovereinté, from soverein
Date: 14th century
1obsolete : supreme excellence or an example of it
2 a: supreme power especially over a body politic b: freedom from external control : autonomy c: controlling influence
3: one that is sovereign; especially : an autonomous state



So in other words they cannot tell you who is or who is'nt indian by ethnicity or blood, but they don't have to recognize that you are indian either or that you are a member of a nation that is separate from the US Federal government because unless that federal government recognizes it, then it is assumed and enforced that IT is your government and you abide by it's laws ONLY. You are subject to it's policies, it's drafts and registrations, and to it's taxes.

The USA was'nt considered a nation till it was successfully seceeded from the English government and had treaties with other foreign nations. I hope I made sense here without sounding pompous. It might also help you put into perspective why some folks don't accept these unrecognized "tribes".
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:41 PM   #153
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...and even then some tribes have came up with a way to still keep their tribe small by bringing in "oh you have to live here".....or "you have to have a certain ammount of blood".....there is soo many other little things which will keep people from being able to join a tribe now days......
It really isn't a matter of keeping tribes small. Tribes provide services for their members, just like state governments do. They do this with limited resources and limited land bases.

Again, you can be culturally whatever nation you are without a card. Learn your language, live by your people's ways (not some hokey new-age conception of Indian ways), contribute to your community, respect your kin.... That is Native cultural identity. Do this and I'll bet no one will need a piece of paper to determine if you're for real.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:55 AM   #154
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:49 PM   #155
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Again, you can be culturally whatever nation you are without a card. Learn your language, live by your people's ways (not some hokey new-age conception of Indian ways), contribute to your community, respect your kin.... That is Native cultural identity. Do this and I'll bet no one will need a piece of paper to determine if you're for real.
That's me!! I don't need no stinkin' badges! I mean card.

And good words, Blackbear!!
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:17 AM   #156
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----I KNOW THERE IS SOME THAT ARE CHEROKEE AND BLACKFOOT...THERE IS ALSO A BLACKFOOT NATION FROM CANADA..ON ENGLISH SIDE...THEY WERE THE BLACKFEET...SOME WENT TO MONTANA...IDAHO..AND CANADA...IN SOME POINT OF VIEW THERE WAS AN NATIVE INDIAN WAR...AND MANY WERE KILLED..WOMEN TAKEN..AND LIVED WITH THE BLACKFOOT..THE ONES IN CANADA..CAME THROUGH TO EVEN PENNSYLVANIA..OHIO..THEY RAPED THE WOMEN..THE CHILDREN BECAME MIXED BLOOD....CHEROKEEWOLF...
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:55 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Saponi-Tribe View Post
they even got tribal leaders arguing with other tribal leaders over who should get recognition first lol There is even federal tribes that are arguing that other tribes near them are trying to get federal recognition.

And lets not forget about certain tribal leaders which never will reply to any e-mail messages lol.....or the ones that seem to be on vacation every day of the year when tribal offices are called on the phone lol

Here is the best one...umm how do I enroll in your tribe.....oh you give us your name and we will check our roll and see if your on our roll.....ok ummm is there anyway I can know who is on your roll or look at your roll to see if any of my ancestors are listed......no we do not let anyone know who is on our roll....lol You have to love that one hahahaha For certain tribes that claim they want to bring all their tribe back together they sure don't want anyone knowing whats on their roll lol Them good ole most sacred secret rolls which may or may not exist lol

Here is another good one....original treaty lists 100 surnames...but tribe only has 10 of them surnames on their roll and refuse to allow the other 90 surnames onto their roll.....and funny part is they will have 5 or more surnames that never was associated with the 100 surnames listed on the original treaty. Ask them about the other 90 surname families and the tribal leaders may try and say....oh they died of small pox and was killed.......then when census records are showed to them showing that all 90 surname families are listed as having moved one state away grouped together....of course the tribal leaders have nothing more to say hahaha

RainbowspiritDancer you are right...it is classic divide and conquer....that was how the europeans and french took over............unity has been tooken away. Like check this out.....a reservation out in oklahoma....a korean family actually was allowed to build a factory right next to the reservation.....it had destroyed not only the air and water on that reservation but this black cancer causing dirt stuff was covering the cars, trees, houses, etc.........it is a attempted genocide upon that reservation......ask anyone in America about it and I bet they are not aware of it........once your divided then no one will know when you are in need of help....
but now when the trade center was attacked the whole world knew about it that very moment. when you turn your tv on and you see that old man with the beard walking around talking about starving children in some country somewhere and talking about sending in money, umm when was the last time you've seen a reservation put on tv with someone trying to help get them food and supplies.

Why does some tribal leaders refuse to let their tribe members know what their tribal funds are beng spent on.

Biggest question of all still stands....why is their still indians that claim a person is not indian unless they are in a state or federally recoginized tribe?!?

divide and conquer is right.....it happened many moons ago.....one by one the tribes of america got taken out......one by one....one by one...taken out.
anyone know how many indians lived in america before the 1600's? anyone know how many there was in 1800?

Saponi,

Two posts ago, you said twice, "I am never coming back to this site again."


WELCOME BACK!!!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherokeewolf1368
IN SOME POINT OF VIEW THERE WAS AN NATIVE INDIAN WAR...AND MANY WERE KILLED..WOMEN TAKEN..AND LIVED WITH THE BLACKFOOT..THE ONES IN CANADA..CAME THROUGH TO EVEN PENNSYLVANIA..OHIO..THEY RAPED THE WOMEN.THE CHILDREN BECAME MIXED BLOOD....CHEROKEEWOLF...

Uh Cherokeewolf....


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Old 05-14-2008, 11:57 AM   #158
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:19 PM   #159
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CherokeeWolf, you will get better comprehension if you treat ellipsis (...) like chocolate cupcakes. They're good on occasion, but make a bad steady diet. Please, be kind to those of us with learning disabilities who find your posts really hard to read. :)
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:03 PM   #160
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well actually there are tons of blackfoot in missouri. its not some false theory and has nothing to do with that website that you guys are talking about..alot of people from before 1900 and not all went to the reservations. on that side of my family they didnt go because of boarding schools so they resided in missouri and hid out. i dont know how they got there but they did. these ppl arent some wannabes they just i think they went into hiding or just left the state and established a community there. you all know that stuff like that happens and theres that missouri river they probably traveled by so i just think before acting you should really find out. go to missouri or va or whereever and ask them before judging.
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