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Old 02-23-2005, 09:50 AM   #1
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Churchill Admits he Isn't Indian

http://starbulletin.com/2005/02/23/news/index2.html

Since he's admitted he's a fraud, will Colorado fire him?
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Old 02-23-2005, 10:24 AM   #2
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I am shocked at this revelation.













Not even! Some people will do anything for a buck.
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Old 02-23-2005, 10:32 AM   #3
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At the risk of being labeled as a racist, I'll say this. I have seen this happen many times. People attempting to get education funding, tax-free gas, tax-free anything, jobs.

But , keep cool, folks!! Don't jump all over me for this post!! I've gotten this before. The truth is not always pleasant to some people.

I just love my people.
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:05 AM   #4
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Poor B******. Probably realized that being NDN wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Its funny non-ndns always look at the stuff they can get and how it will benefit them. They don't understand that there are a lot of costs to being associated with us. When you look at the end of the day, it is only those who are understand what its all about. He probably got pressure from somewhere else to admit he wasn't ndn.
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:07 AM   #5
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ok ok...im never going to believe anyone who says theyre indian ever again
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:29 PM   #6
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Question

As much as my initial thoughts and personal conclusions about this guy have convinced me he's an *** clown....I had to double check.

It seems his statements have been blatantly taken out of context. He presented one paper..."Some People Push Back".

Available in full for your viewing pleasure and for dissemination, courtesy of the ***. Press. (funny pun on words....but, hey! It's what they call themselves!!)

Churchill's Own Words....in full, as he wrote em and presented them.

If you READ very carefully, it's basically an attack on US Foreign Policy, calling the actions of the 9/11 folks simple rebuttals to the US imposed actions and policy, exacted upon their own country, and on countries in other parts of the World.

I'm by no means a believer in conspiracy theories...but, his arguement is certainly well thought out, extremely convincing...and I've gotta take a leap WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out there and agree with him on his comments on foreign policy.

The problem with the US Media is it's corporate controlled. That said....they focused in on a few lines within the larger context of his speech/paper presentation. The bit on 9/11 "victims" being "Little Eichmann's".

That's all America at large heard and saw, or wanted to hear...so, they demonized him for it. Read AROUND those comments, and see in what context they're presented in, within the larger text of the presentation....you'd see it's basically a form of outcry against US Foreign Policy and methods of war, and how the US is not held accountable for it's own atrocities inflicted upon countless millions, on an annual basis, for one sole purpose.

To line the pockets of the already wealthy. You hear about it, as they're getting sloppy now, with things like Bush offering up the "rebuilding of Iraq" to close friends with large holdings or ownership in companies like Halleburton.

I think Ward just bit off too much in saying all of this, but, I for one feel.......he's hit the nail square on the head, and like they saying goes........"The truth hurts".

Believe me when I tell you, upon reading in the corporate controlled news media, or on television....I was outraged by his comments about "victims" of 9/11 being called "little Eichmann's". But, I managed to catch an exclusive interview with Ward on Free Speech TV last night, and it's airing again today at 3:30PM...if you've got the channel, watch it.

Granted, you have to sit thru Russell Means blathering on about AIM and it's own agenda a bit......but, basically, if you listen, and listen good........you'll hear some rather convincing arguements for some much needed change in our government.

I know it all sounds anarchistic, but, it's really not. It's basically trying to place some level of responsibility where it clearly should fall, upon the American Public at large, for not being informed enough to demand better treatment of other human beings around the World, and it demands change in US Policy. For too long it's been basically a policy where, the US gets what IT wants, for next to nothing, all the while, the impoverished of the supplying countries continue to suffer, with their own government having little or no choice but to sustain that level of oppression of their base classes and populations, JUST to supply the US with what amounts to a throw-away economy. We are a country of waste and instant gratification.

His cites and selections of key events in US Policy and history, are poignant, and very thought provoking. I mean, look at what the US does to countries that will not engage in trade with the US. Embargos on their export goods. Why do you think China, North Korea, countries within Africa, some in Europe, REFUSE to deal with the US? For one simple reason, they'd rather not have that income from the US than give up their very lives and ways of life in the process of handing over a product to the US. There is very little the developing countries of the World can do to combat this problem. Why do you think you have sweat shops in Asia? WHy do you think there is so much opposition in the World to US advances and policy? Granted, these countries are not angels in their own right in the human treatment area....a lot of them are just as guilty of atrocities too.

Ward Churchill has made one simple statement.....the 9/11 attacks are simple "messages" to the US at large. Change or prepare to be dealt with on a level you as Americans simply understand to be the only mode of communication you can grasp. Deaths in large numbers, body counts.

I find it interesting how the media focused on the Eichmann comment more than anything else. The Extreme Right set it's foot soldiers in motion IMMEDIATELY to quiet Churchhill, and they've only used that one comment time and again to fuel the fires of outrage towards Churchill.

I can't agree on the company Ward keeps, or on some of his comments, but, I do agree that the attacks came as a result of US Foreign Policy and old fashioned bullying in the World market.

Now, before I get blasted......and called a kook for listening to or reading his shpeel.......go read it for yourself. Granted, it's a form of propoganda, in opposition to the other propoganda you get every day from the US Government in the news and in newspapers.....but, it's sort of refreshing to think that SOMEONE'S saying something in opposition to US Forein Policy.

After his speech, there was a question and answer session with those at the presentation, namely students at CU, voicing opposition to his comments........they singled out ONE comment in the whole thing......the Eichmann comment. They did like the press at large did....they removed it from the context in which it was used.

I know he was looking for some level of outrage, a "pouring of salt" in the still healing wounds of post 9/11. He's stated that the outrage that America felt during 9/11, is basically a "taste" of what the other countries around the World suffering under US Foreign Policy/trade relations, have endured for countless decades since the US entered into the World stage as a force to be reckoned with. That we should feel outrage, anger, and we should want revenge.....and that we should be mindful of one thing........."now we know how the opposition feels."

He's stated that the corporate controlled media is the faction that's created the image of him as being an anarchistic preaching, "no sadness for those lost in 9/11", professor. The Native Population at large, I believe, has simply sought to distance itself from his comments....namely, the 9/11 comments, simply because to associate with someone like that, would only further the gap between white and indian relations. Things are bad enough as it is, we all know that. Racism is still dominant and ever present in border towns, more so than ever....comments like his, and statements that "he's indian" only further those racist views that indians are no good.

That much I understand, but, I thought it very outspoken, if not stupid of Ward to really stick his neck out there, say what he had to say. But, very responsible of him to lay claim to them in the interview, to state again, they are his views, his comments, his opinions, and they are in no way a reflection of the Native Population, not the views, opinions or comments of The American Indian Movement, or of the University. He took responsibility for what he had to say.

He's a very articulate speaker....I'll give him that. He's certainly thought out this whole thing from start to finish. I watched as the interviewer tried to corner him on certain points, how during the question and answer session, students tried to be confrontational with him, to corner him on his own comments.......he was very articulate, very clear on his responses.

I don't know about some of Russell's comments though...that the whole community at Pine Ridge supports and have adopted Ward Churchill......everyone knows Pine Ridge has it bad in the economic sense, like it is on most indian reservations......I mean, comments like that can only make matters worse when it comes time to check the box for the amounts of government aid Pine Ridge is gonna get to support public services.

But, Russell's Russell.

Then again........I was reminded of how Russell and Timothy Leary and others, during the 1970's, voiced opposition to the Vietnam War, and according to some sources......received funding from the Communist Party to do so. So, perhaps we could see something like that here. Claims that Ward and AIM have received monetary backing from Al Qaida.

Who knows!!

Now, before I get labeled a sympathiser. I remind you. I'm only agreeing on his comments on US Foreign Policy and the attacks of 9/11 being retalitory in nature. A bold statement nonetheless....but, still, I think they were. It's not like the US is this peaceful force in the World, trying to free the oppressed and better the World at large. No, we're doing what we're doing to protect OUR OIL, OUR RESOURCES.
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:52 PM   #7
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yep..i thought he was an excellent speaker and his stuff is taken out of context...but to pretend youre a native...indian..whatever...i have a couple of white friends i like to think of as native...one is always late... yeah he looked good in wranglers even...oh damn..
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Old 02-23-2005, 01:59 PM   #8
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Curious....thanks for the info Badmutha.

I know one thing. In the interview last night on Free Speech TV....Churchill made it abundantly clear he was well within his rights to say what he had to say, and he'd reviewed his contractual agreement with the university prior to even thinking about making his presentation.

He's essentially covered all his bases. Not only that, he's given up ground by resigning as head of one board he led at the University, as he said, out of fairness, decency and respect for his fellow professors, the University, and the board or regents.

He's certainly done his homework before shootin' his mouth off, that's for sure. Now the State of Colorado has to deal with a man who is well within his rights, who could very well bankrupt the University if they choose to fire him, and then he could very well go after individual statesmen.

There was a rather interesting article the other day in the New York Times by that frigid old hag, Ann Coulter. She basically slammed Freedom of Speech, I don't know how many of you saw that, but, she really made an assclown of herself with that one. She was trying to slam Churchill, but, she ended up really doing her own Republican/Right Wingers a real blow below the belt. She mocked the whole Freedom of Speech thing.....yet, the very act she mocked, she was invoking with her own comments and slamming of Churchill and liberals, basically pooling them into one, when they're really not. Churchill has his side.......Liberals have theirs, yet, to put them into one lump like she did.......doesn't help Liberals at all, that basically weakens the Liberal agenda and public image in the American eye.

Mind you, Churchill is Churchill to me, he's not someone I look up to, or admire or think is anyting of a great thinker....he just happens to share some views that I'd already had in mind since 9/11 happened.

But...that aside and back to Ann.

The whole thing read like we we're already living in a society that would immediately root out any opposition to the dominant thought of "The Right Wing"....and it actions/comments/views ..."is/are Divine Mandate".

Scary thing was, it sorta read like a Cuban Newspaper, or like I was watching something on CCTV (Communist Chinese Television, broadcast Worldwide via Satellite, and readily available in the US...I get it on my Dishnetwork, I don't want it, but, I get it for free......it's really boring stuff, totally bereft of any REAL news, no images of anything contrary to what China wants to put out there, this image of a PEACEFUL Socialist Society getting along "A- Okay".)

Anyway......
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Old 02-23-2005, 05:24 PM   #9
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making sense of Churchill...

I found this article to be one that tried to make some sense of all the complex, college, academic lingo Churchill used.


Robert Jensen's comments on Churchill's essay.
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Old 02-23-2005, 07:35 PM   #10
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I watched that documentary on FSTV too, "When They Came for Ward Churchill"
I listened to it for a while but I got tired of seeing Russell Means on there, at one point the signage under his name read "Russell Means, Lawyer" he's not a lawyer is he?
You're right though, Ward did have some interesting things to say but I think I stopped watching after the issue of Ward's NDN blood came into conversation and Russell said, in the NDN way, we accept him as being a NDN and Ward is considered to be an NDN leader....

That's when I said oh bullshyt and changed the channel........
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
Ward's NDN blood came into conversation and Russell said, in the NDN way, we accept him as being a NDN and Ward is considered to be an NDN leader....

That's when I said oh bullshyt and changed the channel........
Just one more white man trying to speak for us, instead of: "in our behalf," he still makes me sick.
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Old 02-24-2005, 08:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
I watched that documentary on FSTV too, "When They Came for Ward Churchill"
I listened to it for a while but I got tired of seeing Russell Means on there, at one point the signage under his name read "Russell Means, Lawyer" he's not a lawyer is he?
You're right though, Ward did have some interesting things to say but I think I stopped watching after the issue of Ward's NDN blood came into conversation and Russell said, in the NDN way, we accept him as being a NDN and Ward is considered to be an NDN leader....

That's when I said oh bullshyt and changed the channel........
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...729323,00.html

Oh well, the newspaper admitted they misquoted Churchill. Frankly I didn't think he had enough honesty to admit being a fraud.
Russell Means isn't a lawyer. It's kind of hard to pass the bar when you have a criminal record as long as his. If those two wanna carry around posters of Osama bin Laden, that's their right. But we have every right to point them out as the egomaniacal, publicity hounds that they are. They hardly represent Indian country.
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Old 02-24-2005, 10:21 AM   #13
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Ward Churchill Advocates Terrorism

Surprise, Surprise
This fool was caught on tape not only advocating terrorism, but how to do it successfully. For example, urging them to cut their hair, shave their beards and put on business suits.

Here's the link.
http://www.michellemalkin.com/
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmutha
Surprise, Surprise
This fool was caught on tape not only advocating terrorism, but how to do it successfully. For example, urging them to cut their hair, shave their beards and put on business suits.

Here's the link.
http://www.michellemalkin.com/
How is cutting ones hair, shaving a beard and doning a business suit considered terrorism?

I mean, granted his methods of going about things and saying things are VERY CRYPTIC at best, and I think he does that on purpose. But, how is that an act of terrorism?

If you were to link this speech with his "Some People Push Back" one, you'd clearly see some of the same messages being carried across....accountability on the World stage for atrocities committed against humanity, and just basic personal accountability in daily life. I think he's trying to say that we're all interconnected, despite our own perceived perceptions and preconceived notions, based on race, creed or gender. He's sort of asking people to take up arms and to demand for a better government. He's asking some very interesting questions. I can't agree much with them, but, I must say, they are interesting, and how he chooses to deliver them is equally striking.

He's moving to create controversy with his work, his writings, his presentations. The whole statement that he condones terrorism is kind of absurd, yet the press and public at large have chosen to run with it. I mean, on top of things, if you just took things at face value.....TRUE, it DOES appear that he is advocating terrorism.....but, ask yourself. Doesn't the US practice and market on a daily basis, it's own brand of terrorism in other countries? That's a basic tenant of his speeches thus far. Couple that with accountability, and the overall lack of respect for human life and individual cultural standards, in all their varied forms Worldwide.

I believe he has stated he's not promoting terrorism, but, simply that the US has suffered a "rebuttal" to their actions abroad, based on their policies on the World Stage. Terrorism breeds terrorism. The US has reaped what it has sown on the fields of the World Stage. That, we can expect more attacks, that what the US felt on 9/11 is a small "warning" of what's to come if the US doesn't change, or if it does like it has done to date.....taken the strong handed approach to "rooting out evil".

I dunno, I've personally never liked US Policy, but, I gotta admit, I do LOVE the perks that come with it; some of the cheapest fuel prices on Earth, a nice throw away type income that I basically blow on crap or "luxury" type items. All the while....I think I'm still living in an area that basically is Third World, yet, I'm able to enjoy a life that's basically a lot better than most around me.

He's asking us to ante up...to be prepared to pay for those daily luxury items, with the same mode of exchange that we've basically given the rest of the World to attain those goods. Human lives, our personal well being, personal protection, and basic human functions we've sort of come to take for granted. Functions, freedoms, protections, that are in other parts of the World, a rarity, or non-existant. He's saying that if the US wants to portray itself as this great, benevolent, "force", hell bent on removing evil from the World, or removing all the daily problems from the World, like oppression, war, famine, disease, etc....then the US needs to change it's methods and policies, change it's image basically, but not just superficially, actually change, and make the change a real, tangible change, not just on paper, or in the public eye.

In my mind, he's still kinda pissed me off about his 9/11 comments...but, yet, a part of me still wants to think that, perhaps we did illicit such behavior from people like this. Then again, even in the Arab World, there are those that would actively seek out and would love nothing more than the death or painful suffering of Bin Laden and his kind.

I know I would!

Yet, Churchill's made some interesting points along the way....gone about it in an odd way, and controversial way, but, still.....it's interesting.

He's certainly made people think.......that he's an assclown, and that perhaps they should pull public funding of colleges and universities, that perhaps Americans have TOO much freedom of speech. I swear....it's gonna get alot worse in this Country before it gets better.

I hope I'm wrong about that.
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bo Jangles
How is cutting ones hair, shaving a beard and doning a business suit considered terrorism?

I mean, granted his methods of going about things and saying things are VERY CRYPTIC at best, and I think he does that on purpose. But, how is that an act of terrorism?
If you listen to his comments, he's urging attackers to go undercover. For example, the less they look like someone who's going to cause trouble, the more likely they'll be successful. He clearly is giving pointers for those who want to carry out an attack.

BTW check out this link if you don't have to sign up first:
http://www.startcolorado.com/iac/KHO...ley-hickel.wma
Churchill praised the Oklahoma City bombing as well.
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Old 02-25-2005, 12:30 AM   #16
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Boy we sure have spent alot of time debating on this guy.. wasting our breath over a fraud defending his so called honor.. honor in what, his lies? whether or no the guy is right in his statements concering world affairs wasnt the point, it wa that he was claiming to represent Natives becasue he was a Native.. well that has been blown outta the water so we can move on... and think of him no more... why waste our thoughts on a liar and cheat?
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Old 02-25-2005, 12:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelFeather
Boy we sure have spent alot of time debating on this guy.. wasting our breath over a fraud defending his so called honor.. honor in what, his lies? whether or no the guy is right in his statements concering world affairs wasnt the point, it wa that he was claiming to represent Natives becasue he was a Native.. well that has been blown outta the water so we can move on... and think of him no more... why waste our thoughts on a liar and cheat?
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Old 02-25-2005, 09:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelFeather
Boy we sure have spent alot of time debating on this guy.. wasting our breath over a fraud defending his so called honor.. honor in what, his lies? whether or no the guy is right in his statements concering world affairs wasnt the point, it wa that he was claiming to represent Natives becasue he was a Native.. well that has been blown outta the water so we can move on... and think of him no more... why waste our thoughts on a liar and cheat?
We could. But there are still plenty of "intellectuals" and others willing to defend this fool. There's even a column in Indian Country Today defending him.

Plus, he's not the type to just fade away. Here's a good one on his copyright infringement:

http://news4colorado.com/topstories/...055200531.html

He even took a swing at the reporter doing the story.
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Old 02-25-2005, 02:30 PM   #19
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Boy this guy sure likes being a whipping post! I question anybody's character, if they are willing to defend this loser. Thankyou for sharing Badmutha
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Old 02-25-2005, 10:32 PM   #20
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As a young person..I think this guy has very relevant opinions..and I don't care if he's Native or not..I admire someone who is willing to stand up and say something for Natives (Vine Deloria, Susan Harjo, the Chief Osceola ect..)..I was not offended by anything he said in his 911 essay..I saw the same thing..it was a targeted attack on something that brought alot of oppression, death, land loss and what not for other people..so it was not attack against the poor victims but they just happened to be helping the WTC's many departments globalize on others..money is greed, sometimes it is even evil because it is soemtimes gained at the cost of others...BUT that's MY OWN OPINION..how ever our attacks on them are just not as precise, and yes alot of innocents are dying..It is IRONIC that what happened at the WTC is something USA has been doin on other countries for a while
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