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Old 03-31-2006, 10:25 PM   #1
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“Do you have Native American DNA?”

That is the question asked by Terry Carmichael, vice president for sales and marketing at GeneTree, whose advertising asks, “Do you have Native American DNA?”

How do you feel about this?

Is it the DNA or traditions passed down thru known bloodlines?



Link for article....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7298465/



By Adam Tanner
Updated: 10:15 p.m. ET March 25, 2005

SAN FRANCISCO - The United States has treated its indigenous people poorly for much of its history, yet today thousands of people are anxious to show their Native American heritage and are turning to DNA testing for help.

Some white Americans have long claimed distant ties to Cherokee princesses or other legendary figures among the peoples whom explorer Christopher Columbus mistakenly called Indians.

Now Indian heritage — which can make a person eligible for federal assistance programs, qualify them for a share of tribal casino profits, or just satisfy their curiosity — can be determined through genetic testing. Advances in DNA screening have provided new tools to document Native American ancestry, although some say such data are open to be interpretation.


“If you are interested in determining your eligibility for Native American rights or just want to satisfy your curiosity, our ancestry DNA test is the only method available for this purpose today,” one firm, Genelex, advertises.


A question of fractions
Although U.S. citizens typically know the broad outlines of their ancestry, for Native Americans the exact fractions of their heritage can take on heightened importance.

Nineteenth-century treaties obligate the U.S. government to provide education, health care and other services to many tribes. Indian sovereignty also means tribes can set up casinos on reservations. Indian casinos now generate $18 billion annually, and the numbers are growing.

Many tribes set as a membership standard that a person must have at least one Indian grandparent or one great-grandparent. Others among the 562 federally recognized tribes require links to members on a tribal membership roll in past generations.

With individuals seeking to affirm membership in recognized tribes and dozens of unrecognized tribes seeking federal acknowledgment, commercial firms have in the last two years stepped up marketing of genetic ancestry tests. A positive test result is not sufficient to enable someone to claim Indian benefits, because they must prove a link to a specific tribe.

“Nobody else in this nation has to prove their ancestry except for American Indians,” said Ken Adams, chief of the Upper Mattaponni Tribe in Virginia, which is not recognized by the U.S. government. “It’s so ironic, because we were the original ones.”

Three types of tests
Since Genelex started offering the test more than a year ago, 600 people have paid $395 to learn the degree of their Native American heritage, said Kristine Ashcraft, director of client relations.

Firms such as Genelex offer three types of tests: on male ancestors, on female ancestors, and a third to determine a percentage of Native American, East Asian, Indo-European and African heritage.

DNAPrint, a company based in Sarasota, Fla., processes that third test, and has done it for 12,000 to 13,000 people since 2000, said firm director Richard Gabriel. DNAPrint uses data from South American Indians as a genetic reference point, he said.

Testing has its limits
Mark Shriver, an anthropologist at Pennsylvania State University who helped develop the DNAPrint ancestry test, cautions that without a filled-out family history, the DNA results prove little.

“Just simple belief in a test without considering all the other data is, you know, foolish,” he said. “The science is not simply true and objective. ... It is one clue in the picture.”

He cited one of his graduate students from France, whose test found a 14 percent Native American heritage. He said that number was likely the result of intermixing following the 13th-century invasion of Europe by Mongols, who hailed from the same region of Asia as the forefathers of Native Americans.

The DNA tests are also unable to differentiate between Indian tribes.

Who is an Indian?
The issue of who is an Indian also hangs over future generations. For members whose tribes share revenues from casino operations, marrying outside the tribe could have major financial implications.

As in many cultures, some parents encourage children to marry within the tribe, but some, especially in smaller tribes, see the request as very limiting.

“Everyone in the tribe is a distant cousin,” complained one 18-year-old Indian woman who works at a casino in the Pueblo of Acoma, N.M. She hoped to marry outside the tribe.

As important as identity is in Native American culture, for some the motivation for a DNA test is just curiosity.

“It’s growing in popularity much faster than any of our expectations,” said Terry Carmichael, vice president for sales and marketing at GeneTree, whose advertising asks, “Do you have Native American DNA?”

“A lot of people out there primarily want to find out if they have Native American ancestry, not for purposes of claiming rights to a casino, but more for their own understanding,” he said. “They want to be able to understand their ancestry a little bit more.”
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:14 PM   #2
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Another Point of Interest...

When I went to register my son in school, I noticed that under the racial profiles for Native American it had in parenthesis "actively practicing culture". Strange, I thought whether or not you wanted to be Native American or actively practice traditional cuture, if that's in your blood line, it's in your bloodline. Of course they don't say African American "actively speaking African language" or Caucasian "not mixed with any other race". They did however have under one of the other categories "not being of hispanic heritage".... as if having some hispanic heritage voids all other parts of one's ancestory! (laugh) I protested stating that I wanted all of my son's racial identity on his school record and asked when mixed race people were going to able to freely express that mixture without being forced by bureacracies to place themselves in one little box. Strangely enough, they had no answer for me. (grin)
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Old 04-05-2006, 08:33 AM   #3
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I guess, if that were the case, there should be a line beside each entry to describe ancestry.
But since the government doesn't work like that, check two or three boxes and mess with their minds...

I think the point being made by that statement is.. if you claim to be Native American, do you or were you raised with some traditional heritage? Not just because 3 generations back your grandma was 1/2 native.
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:35 AM   #4
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I think that being Native is to live, breathe, eat, drink, sleep, and practice all of the Native traditions that have been passed down from generations long ago. If someone is claming Cherokee ancestory from a Cherokee princess, they are most likely lying. There were no princes until about 94 years age, and that was brought about by the council for the annual fair held in October.
All non-natives who are trying to be who they are not are just denying themselves out of their own heritage and culture. I think that it is sad when people are so lost that they don't who they are so they try to borrow other peoples lives and thier past.
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndnlady1306
I think that being Native is to live, breathe, eat, drink, sleep, and practice all of the Native traditions that have been passed down from generations long ago.
I totally agree with you ndnlady!
Of course there may be exceptions, like adoption out to whites.

These ndns may want to connect with their tribe and heritages. In that instance their should be some family left from that tribe to help that person, if there is not, I think it would be more hard to join with their tribe, without the proper paperwork.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ndnlady1306
If someone is claming Cherokee ancestory from a Cherokee princess, they are most likely lying. There were no princes until about 94 years age, and that was brought about by the council for the annual fair held in October.

LOL.. I don't know about princes and princesses!

Although I am white and claim being white cause I think I look purty white, I do have indian blood from my Fathers side, and on both Grandparents side, that run all through NC, TN border, to be specific Hanging Dog, Madison, Grape Creek,Cherokee, and Marshall, NC. I have traced it back as far as 1740. Its just that from about 1840 there were marriages to white people.
Why?.. possibly assimilation, love , who really knows that far back.
Still looking into a part of that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ndnlady1306
All non-natives who are trying to be who they are not are just denying themselves out of their own heritage and culture. I think that it is sad when people are so lost that they don't who they are so they try to borrow other peoples lives and thier past.
Would that be the true definition of a wannabe, hobbyist?
I think so.


To be of euro/ native descent and wanting to learn more about Native Americans and their history, is part of my heritage and ancestory. I do not want to participate in ceremony or get a card, just learn alittle more about Native's and the issues at hand for them.

What about all the DNA reasearch going on?

Lots of Native Tribes don't want to submit DNA to scientist, because they all have their stories of Creation and feel that they don't feel the need to explore their Mitcondrial DNA..

I wonder if they did would they want to know the results?
Can I get a view point from a native, please?
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Old 04-10-2006, 03:00 PM   #6
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What would you say to a scientist, who came to your reservation or tribe and asked you to submit DNA, because he was tracking human migration patterns over the course of centuries?
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Old 04-10-2006, 03:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Bear
What would you say to a scientist, who came to your reservation or tribe and asked you to submit DNA, because he was tracking human migration patterns over the course of centuries?
Unless I fell into mad love, I would never live on a reservation. (grin) I personally have no problem with being an "other" and I always check as many boxes as I feel like checking. (laugh)

My native blood is just as much a part of my heritage as my white blood and my black blood. I would not be who I was if any of them were not there. For me it just is something that is. That I don't speak French or celebrate Bastille Day does not nullify my white French blood. That I do not practice Voodoo or speak Hatian does not nullify my Hatian blood and likewise that the only thing I know about Native Americans I have gleaned here and there primarly from books and TV does not nullify my Native blood either. To say that my lifestyle choices makes me one race or another is just plain pish posh. If I were a full blood living on a rez who chose not to follow the old ways, would I not have native blood then? Your blood line is your blood line. Like it or embrace it or not, it just is.

As I know much about the other 2 parts of my heritage, it only seems fair that I do the same for this portion is it not? Of course forces beyond my control have made this decision for me so here I am, stuck with it all nonetheless. What all of the mystery and secrecy is about I don't really get. Why people who have no native blood would want to claim some is also beyond me.

That being said, I would probably tell them to f*ck off....Strange how typically anglo anthropologists rarely seek to poke and prod and desecrate their own kind is it not? (laugh) How exactly is establishing one's heritage breakdown indicative of migration patterns anyway? That I am now in Houston does in no way indicate my "migration patterns". It only proves that I now live in Houston. Unless they DNA everyone in the world including digging up the dead and DNA testing them, they could not possibly hope to get anything more than more hypothesis at best. More likely, just more conjecture which is what we have now...without poking people. (grin) What are we in Gattaca?
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Old 04-10-2006, 03:30 PM   #8
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And for the record...

I have too much pride, no matter what my Native blood percentage to take handouts from the very *******s who made me need handouts in the first place.
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Old 04-10-2006, 04:19 PM   #9
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Talking Does this apply??....

My great-grandmother on my mother's aunt's side might have been a Spanish princess......but I haven't been able to prove it yet.Does that make me eligible for land claim in Spain?? I hear Barcelona is lovely in the springtime!!....just don't take the subway!!(jokes).To hell with anthros and their crap!!Everything has to have a category,a label,and a reason to exist as far as their concerned.I wonder if any of these folks go to church,or are part of an organization that promotes belief in Creationism,all the while discrediting our beliefs...how hypocritical would that be!!But then again,we are supposed to keep these things seperate...aren't we??....keep smilin'1
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Old 04-10-2006, 06:04 PM   #10
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That depends...

Quote:
Originally Posted by apacheheart
My great-grandmother on my mother's aunt's side might have been a Spanish princess......but I haven't been able to prove it yet.Does that make me eligible for land claim in Spain?? I hear Barcelona is lovely in the springtime!!....just don't take the subway!!(jokes).To hell with anthros and their crap!!Everything has to have a category,a label,and a reason to exist as far as their concerned.I wonder if any of these folks go to church,or are part of an organization that promotes belief in Creationism,all the while discrediting our beliefs...how hypocritical would that be!!But then again,we are supposed to keep these things seperate...aren't we??....keep smilin'1
...on whether or not you like Spain and if she was the legitimate heir or just another royal b*stard. (laugh) Surely you should be calling up the DNA boys so that you can confirm! There's a nice muddy bog with your name on it...no really. I'm sorry, I thought your parents told you that your name indeed means "muddy bog".

Shut your yappin' and take a front seat view from your box. Is it not enough that they gave it to you and lined with with shredded newspaper! The least you owe them is your very life's blood as a sign of eternal loyalty. Your Spanish Princess would be quite disappointed in your ingratitude.

As for the worship of facts and the worship of the intangible, they are of course separate silly. Everyone knows that science and religion have nothing to do with each other save when it's really, really convenient.

Saucy in Sienna

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Old 04-10-2006, 06:55 PM   #11
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Talking quite saucy.....

Grea....I like you.....straight up.I really should be grateful for getting anything,no matter how insignificant it might be to me.They would never let me forget it anyway!!....(lol)keep smilin'1
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:15 PM   #12
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Well lift my leg...You like me! I like me too! (laugh)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apacheheart
Grea....I like you.....straight up.I really should be grateful for getting anything,no matter how insignificant it might be to me.They would never let me forget it anyway!!....(lol)keep smilin'1
I laugh all of the time. Perhaps that's why people stare at me funny everywhere I go...perhaps that's also why Daddy bought me that white jacket with all of the nice, shiny buckles...Nah! He just wants to make sure I hug myself everyday and hold it as long as possible. (laugh)

I apparently have a reputation now...so Powwows.com has informed me. I don't know if that is a good thing....Did you have anything to do with my reputation here? I mean, you said if I went all the way you would never tell! (laugh)
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:54 PM   #13
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:43 AM   #14
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Talking Nuh Uh!!

That's all you,Babe...remember I'm new to this whole thing....but obviously you have a following(lol)....you should become a guru and cash in on all the attention!!....keep smilin'1
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apacheheart
That's all you,Babe...remember I'm new to this whole thing....but obviously you have a following(lol)....you should become a guru and cash in on all the attention!!....keep smilin'1
(laugh) I've known him for months now. He's one of the old timers and big posters here. He's my post daddy. (laugh)

I dared him to meet me here to clown last night and of course he did, not being able to resist my "magnetic personality"... (laugh) Of course I did manage to add his house keys to the collection of things sticking to me so that could have been the real reason.

I think most people here are intimidated by me in one way or another because I'm so brash. So they just sit back and read and don't jump into the fray. Same when I go into the chat room.

I trust I have another fan here....at least one not afraid to mention it in public. (laugh) Now, I'm off pretending to work again.

Enjoy!

Salacious in Slate


Grea.
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:07 PM   #16
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Scammed!


Someone thought of a way to get rich by matching genetic molecules to determine a match with American Indian DNA.

*L


If your DNA matches 100% to American Indian....


And you don't know what tribe you are and no tribe will accept you.....



Then you can legally only be a "Generic Check Box Indian!"
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Scammed!


Someone thought of a way to get rich by matching genetic molecules to determine a match with American Indian DNA.

*L


If your DNA matches 100% to American Indian....


And you don't know what tribe you are and no tribe will accept you.....



Then you can legally only be a "Generic Check Box Indian!"
scam it is... Shame there are people out there who are doing this..

What I was leading up to is the question about the DNA of Natives and how the scientist are trying to prove that immigration to North American was over the land bridge millions of years ago.

Are tribes allowing DNA testing or. are the tribes telling them(scientist) we have our own creation so screw you and your theories?
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greagirl
(laugh) I've known him for months now. He's one of the old timers and big posters here. He's my post daddy. (laugh)

I dared him to meet me here to clown last night and of course he did, not being able to resist my "magnetic personality"... (laugh) Of course I did manage to add his house keys to the collection of things sticking to me so that could have been the real reason.

I think most people here are intimidated by me in one way or another because I'm so brash. So they just sit back and read and don't jump into the fray. Same when I go into the chat room.

I trust I have another fan here....at least one not afraid to mention it in public. (laugh) Now, I'm off pretending to work again.

Enjoy!

Salacious in Slate


Grea.
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:36 PM   #19
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Talking Count me in...

Not afraid to say it....I'm a fan!!Go on witcherr bad self!!....keep smilin'1
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by apacheheart
Not afraid to say it....I'm a fan!!Go on witcherr bad self!!....keep smilin'1
You do realize that now you will be added to the do not call list? (grin)
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