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Old 02-28-2005, 03:21 AM   #1
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Question Do you think American Indians are push overs?

I say this because I think of all the crap American Indians have put up with and yet...people are still so ignorant. I mean, if tomorrow New York had a baseball team called 'the Jews' all hell would break loose. Americans could so easily say how racist that could be. If a black man sues WalMart for a large amount of money based on racial discrimination all the media would cover it. But the Oglala man who sued gets no media coverage. Devil's Tower in Wyoming is a scared site but yet climbers continue to climb it regularly. This is where Sitting Bull, Gall, Spotted Tail, Red Cloud went to pray etc. This is where they have sundances in June. The Plan, created by the Park Service provided a voluntary closure of climbing of the Tower in June in order to respect Indian ceremonies. Four climbers filed a lawsuit againist this "plan". I mean, why is that even an issue? If we think it's sacred, that should be enough, it should be off limits. Is it because we're American Indian our believes aren't as important as any other cultures?
This could go on and on especially about the NAGPRA. While I think this law did the people well most of the time, should this should have been an issue? I mean, we don't go digging up non Indian bones, cataloging them, putting them in drawers or put on display. But is it because they are Indian bones, it's okay? I mean I could go on and on...

I know some of you say naming sports teams after something ndn isn't a big deal. But why us? Maybe I'm over emotional, or reading into everything too much.... but I think it's about time we change this. I hate America's lack of knowledge about the people that were here first, about the REAL history of this country. I know some people didn't agree with AIM but they made sure some of problems were known to the non Indian community, They brought awareness to others of our plight. I would like to see a modern AIM were we can educate the ignorant. A voice to tell everyone it's not okay anymore to think Indian's aren't important.

Being Indian myself, I have tried to educate to make people realize that we're living people. We don't dance around fires in loin clothes (I had someone asked if I knew people who did this!), live in teepees, or hunt buffalo for all our meals. Is it because the lack of education of the non Indians that make them think it's okay still to treat Indians this way? I HIGHLY doubt the NAACP would allow non blacks to disregard their believes on a everyday occurance.


Am I the only one who thinks this way?
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:30 PM   #2
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I agree with you. But the sad thing is that a lot of ndns feel that sports teams using ndns as mascots is alright. Where I work, they always think that I like the Washington Redskins and the Atlanta Braves just because I'm ndn. They are so shocked when I tell them that I don't like those teams but I'm a die-hard Carolina Panthers fan.

We need to have some political push to get these things turned around. If a tribe gives a team permission to us them as a mascot, that's one thing. But to do it in general and think that all of ndn country would support it is wrong.

This is just my 2 cents worth. Hopefully, I have not offended anyone.
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Old 02-28-2005, 03:29 PM   #3
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rachel,


In answer to your question "do you think American Indians are Push Overs?" . . . No.

The warrior spirit is deeply ingrained in our culture. There are thousands of Indian people who feel exactly the way you do.

However, voices with no forum is what we as Indian people lack.

How many Indians are extremely wealthy, have favors owed to them by our nations political leaders/decisionmakers/gatekeepers or have access to the national media on a daily basis?

Not many.

"Our country runs on a sytem that responds to money, power and the media.

It is difficult to break into this system."



However, PLEASE continue to keep educating and working toward improving the quality of life for Indian people and future generations.

If enough of us have this vision and each do our part, we CAN make a difference.
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Old 02-28-2005, 06:31 PM   #4
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Rachel I tip my hat to you! That was very well said and powerful! Everything you said is true.. I agree with you whole heartedly...
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Old 02-28-2005, 07:53 PM   #5
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
rachel,


In answer to your question "do you think American Indians are Push Overs?" . . . No.

The warrior spirit is deeply ingrained in our culture. There are thousands of Indian people who feel exactly the way you do.

However, voices with no forum is what we as Indian people lack.

How many Indians are extremely wealthy, have favors owed to them by our nations political leaders/decisionmakers/gatekeepers or have access to the national media on a daily basis?

Not many.

"Our country runs on a sytem that responds to money, power and the media.

It is difficult to break into this system."



However, PLEASE continue to keep educating and working toward improving the quality of life for Indian people and future generations.

If enough of us have this vision and each do our part, we CAN make a difference.
You make a solid point WhoMe. I completely agree with you.
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Old 02-28-2005, 11:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelg196
I say this because I think of all the crap American Indians have put up with and yet...people are still so ignorant. I mean, if tomorrow New York had a baseball team called 'the Jews' all hell would break loose. Americans could so easily say how racist that could be. If a black man sues WalMart for a large amount of money based on racial discrimination all the media would cover it. But the Oglala man who sued gets no media coverage. Devil's Tower in Wyoming is a scared site but yet climbers continue to climb it regularly. This is where Sitting Bull, Gall, Spotted Tail, Red Cloud went to pray etc. This is where they have sundances in June. The Plan, created by the Park Service provided a voluntary closure of climbing of the Tower in June in order to respect Indian ceremonies. Four climbers filed a lawsuit againist this "plan". I mean, why is that even an issue? If we think it's sacred, that should be enough, it should be off limits. Is it because we're American Indian our believes aren't as important as any other cultures?
This could go on and on especially about the NAGPRA. While I think this law did the people well most of the time, should this should have been an issue? I mean, we don't go digging up non Indian bones, cataloging them, putting them in drawers or put on display. But is it because they are Indian bones, it's okay? I mean I could go on and on...

I know some of you say naming sports teams after something ndn isn't a big deal. But why us? Maybe I'm over emotional, or reading into everything too much.... but I think it's about time we change this. I hate America's lack of knowledge about the people that were here first, about the REAL history of this country. I know some people didn't agree with AIM but they made sure some of problems were known to the non Indian community, They brought awareness to others of our plight. I would like to see a modern AIM were we can educate the ignorant. A voice to tell everyone it's not okay anymore to think Indian's aren't important.

Being Indian myself, I have tried to educate to make people realize that we're living people. We don't dance around fires in loin clothes (I had someone asked if I knew people who did this!), live in teepees, or hunt buffalo for all our meals. Is it because the lack of education of the non Indians that make them think it's okay still to treat Indians this way? I HIGHLY doubt the NAACP would allow non blacks to disregard their believes on a everyday occurance.


Am I the only one who thinks this way?
im in agreement with you. its even in the education system...and thats what i get the most upset about. because since it IS in the education system its growing a whole new generation of people that think native americans are a bunch of ignorant primitive people with a primitive religion. quite frankly it makes me sick

oh, and i had one girl that was completely insistant that native americans in the west still lived in tipis. there was no convincing her otherwise. she wasnt 5...she was 19.
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Old 03-01-2005, 10:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
However, voices with no forum is what we as Indian people lack.

It is difficult to break into this system."



If enough of us have this vision and each do our part, we CAN make a difference.

I totally agree with this... This isnt something that any of us can fix overnight or for that matter within in a generation... BUT if we have a collective group willing to stand up for our culture and our beliefs we will pass that knowledge and thirst for right onto our youth and we set the example that we ARE important to society. It will be our next generations that will hopefully make the impact but ilike I said it is our job to get the ball rolling. Keep spreading your message that YES we have alot to contribute to society and although it may NOT be financial knowldege... its is knowledge that will inevitably save our mother earth and maybe put her back in Balance.

We are a simple people with simple values... we do not count our worth with riches but rather that which the creator himself has given to us to share with the rest of the world. So are we Push overs? NO; absolutely NOT; we just dont go around bullying other cultures and our patience has long endured and will continue to endure until our voices are heard. Like WhoME stated it is the warrior spirit in us that for others, look at it as tho we are either radical rebels or simple pushovers . OUR peoples time WILL come... I truly believe this.
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Old 03-01-2005, 12:11 PM   #8
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WOW! This thread and others like it are exactly why I continue to be a part of Powwows.com. As a Native Mother, I am constantly learning and teaching. So thank you everyone. We never know when we will be able to "break into" the change agents, but we got to keep trying!
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Old 03-01-2005, 12:49 PM   #9
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Thumbs up You are so right!

Rachel,
You and WhoMe make some very, very good points.

As I see it, one of the major challenges is the fact that NDN people are fragmented into many different tribes or nations, and even further fragmented into "Full-bloods" or "Mixed-bloods," "On the Rez" or "City Dwellers," an so on. There are very few instances when all NDNs speak as one voice on any particular issue. Iv'e seen that so often on Pine Ridge when different tribal factions cannot seem to agree on much of anything.

Meanwhile Blacks (aka African Americans), have been able to unify to some extent, and frequently do speak with one voice on many issues that affect them. During the last election, many commentators spoke about the "Black vote," or even the "Hispanic or Latino vote" as being among the important voter groups. However, I did not hear anyone mention the "Native American vote."

One way to become unified as one NDN voice is to let your voice be heard. Recently I found a source to do this. I urge you and others to contact this person and let the Bush Administration know how you feel about issues that affect you. In today's society, it's the "squeeky wheel that gets the grease."

Kiahna Sellers, Native American Outreach Coordinator
Republican National Committee
310 First Street, SE
Washington, DC 20003
Phone: 202.863.8600
Fax: 202.863.8820
Email: info@gop.com
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Old 03-01-2005, 12:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usdigvhi
im in agreement with you. its even in the education system...and thats what i get the most upset about. because since it IS in the education system its growing a whole new generation of people that think native americans are a bunch of ignorant primitive people with a primitive religion. quite frankly it makes me sick

oh, and i had one girl that was completely insistant that native americans in the west still lived in tipis. there was no convincing her otherwise. she wasnt 5...she was 19.
I have the same problems here. I had someone ask me why I wasn't wearing feathers and buckskins. Grrrrrrr. I went off on a little pink savage that day. I'm not nice to stupid people, especially not stupid pink people. They deserve the full weight of my wrath. I like to let them know just how unwelcome they are here.
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Old 03-01-2005, 01:14 PM   #11
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You know why noone notices us? because we don't get loud enough. I guess most of us just aren't that p*ssed off at all of the sh*t we've gone through -are still going through. It's this defeatist mentality of "oh, they're just gonna do it, so if we just keep quiet and act like good little injuns they'll pat our heads and throw us some tablescraps, and maybe not take our homes right out from underneath us."

The reality is the whites want us gone, and we are so busy being selfish and ignorant to each other, and so scared of the whites and their government (BIA, anyone) that we are letting them slowly wipe us out of exsistence. Hell- we're helping them wipe us out. We kowtow to the Bia on who is and isn't native, we even go so far on the BIA's opinion that we act racist against those who are mixed or even another nation/tribe from ourselves!
Let me tell you, the more I think on it, and the more I see of these whites, the more deeply ashamed I am of my CDIB card. Why not just let them brand me and put a tag in my ear as they lead us all off the edge of the cliff.

So get angry, get loud, let those pink savages know that you don't appreciate their presence, or their interference. Shake up their little warm and fuzzy world of denial! Rattle their cages! Don't let them drift along thinking everything us just peachy-keen!! And for god's sake, every Nation is as good as the next, so all you obnoxious Mother F-ers out ther who don't like any but your own, get the F*ck over it!!! You're the reason there is no unity amongst Native people, you b*stards!
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Old 03-01-2005, 01:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
You know why noone notices us? because we don't get loud enough. I guess most of us just aren't that p*ssed off at all of the sh*t we've gone through -are still going through. It's this defeatist mentality of "oh, they're just gonna do it, so if we just keep quiet and act like good little injuns they'll pat our heads and throw us some tablescraps, and maybe not take our homes right out from underneath us."

The reality is the whites want us gone, and we are so busy being selfish and ignorant to each other, and so scared of the whites and their government (BIA, anyone) that we are letting them slowly wipe us out of exsistence. Hell- we're helping them wipe us out. We kowtow to the Bia on who is and isn't native, we even go so far on the BIA's opinion that we act racist against those who are mixed or even another nation/tribe from ourselves!
Let me tell you, the more I think on it, and the more I see of these whites, the more deeply ashamed I am of my CDIB card. Why not just let them brand me and put a tag in my ear as they lead us all off the edge of the cliff.

So get angry, get loud, let those pink savages know that you don't appreciate their presence, or their interference. Shake up their little warm and fuzzy world of denial! Rattle their cages! Don't let them drift along thinking everything us just peachy-keen!! And for god's sake, every Nation is as good as the next, so all you obnoxious Mother F-ers out ther who don't like any but your own, get the F*ck over it!!! You're the reason there is no unity amongst Native people, you b*stards!
Bravo!!!

Thankyou So much for your bold words!!! I truly appreciate minds that arent afraid to speak out.... and not afraid to accept that which is different sumone not afraid to stand out at the right places disregarding those ignoracnes of our own that try to tell us to stay quiet that we talk too much that we are not acting Indian because we speak out and tell it like it IS!! YOU did JUST that told it exactly like it is! I praise you for that!

I dunno how often i have seen it here... its sickening... people being told they not Indian enuff, told at times Indians act too white... because they want to try and make a difference... people that say others are deprived because of this and that!! PLzz ... I agree with Deux... its those kind that keep our Native people from progressing.. its the close mindedness that thier tribes are the only ones of Importance!! it is true.. it those very people that cause division amongst the Natives... we cant always blame the white man... theres alot here that complain and complain but NEVER do anything BUT that... complain and call everyone else down for taking action!You hit the nail on the head!!! totally!! THANKYOU!!

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Old 03-02-2005, 02:13 PM   #13
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Thank you all

I seriously thought at first I was going to get bashed. But I'm in the the process of gathering contact info and sending local law makers, the people who write and publish the "history" books, school districts etc.
More non ndn people need to know about how bad they disrespect us on a daily basis, without them knowing it.


What else could bring attention to our problems?
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:45 PM   #14
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We fight but we fight in the long term not the short term. We are an ancient people with ancient ways and we see things much longer and see things in a connected fabric that whites cannot really understand. It is a testament to our fathers and forefathers and mothers that we are still here after 500 years of genocide. 500 years from now we still will be here. Whites see things in the now and do things to achieve in the now. For us the past present and future are all intertwined and we understand that and fight in that framework. We also understand the depthness of freedom that whites do not understand. We remain free despite the what the outward trappings appear to be.
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:22 PM   #15
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I totally agree!!-shut the comp off and let's go to a sweat!
Powwow? Language is ESSENTIAL
Also we can do what others can't acknowledge-Shapeshifting/Call the Wind,rain,Sun,Thunder!!
THINK FIRST BEFORE U REACT AND ASK YOUR SPIRIT!
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiyaanii mom
WOW! This thread and others like it are exactly why I continue to be a part of Powwows.com. As a Native Mother, I am constantly learning and teaching. So thank you everyone. We never know when we will be able to "break into" the change agents, but we got to keep trying!
Wow.. this is what I thought while reading... this is a great thread. We have such great intellect and wisdom here at pws.com.. One of the reasons I am part of this site!
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Old 03-06-2005, 04:27 PM   #17
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I like to hear people that know how to speak their minds. Its the **** that we keep building up inside us that ends up making us sick and then eventually killing us. A few years ago I was talking on another site, and I ended up bringing up issues dealing with out people and that stuff that still goes on day to day. I would say 90% or so of the so called skins on that site went off the deep end. Speaking about how they didn't want to be surrounding with negativity and that the time spend there was a time for fellowship and peace. Thats major horse ****! Show me one native family that lives a fairy tell life and is still connected to who they are. There is no way in hell you can be connected to who you are and live life like its a bowl of cherries. How can a person forget about the past and what still goes on in the present? They say you must forgive but you don't have to forget. Well I choose not to forgive. Why the hell would I want to forgive a people that killed and tortured my people? Women, children and the oldones? Those that took our lands, our homes, making up forget or loose some of our traditions and ceremonies and now our tongues. People that are afriad to speak out, that are afraid they might go to jail or loose their per caps is messed up big time. Nothing ever comes for free, we have to be the firstt to help ourselfs, to make it known to not just this country but to the world that times have changed. That we are no longer afraid to stand for what we believe in and demand to have what is rightfully ours. I'd have to agree that 1. One of the problems is unity. We are so caught up on comparing each other to ourselfs and our own nations. We use our fight and our spirits to put some much **** down instead of saving it up and using it for something that might eventually help all of us instead of just our families. And 2. I think its high time that we have an AIM of the new millenium. There are so many of us out there now that have degrees, have money, and know how to use the system. We have the resources from west coast to the east coast from the north pole to the southern tip of South America.
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Old 03-07-2005, 11:48 AM   #18
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Wow.. this is what I thought while reading... this is a great thread. We have such great intellect and wisdom here at pws.com.. One of the reasons I am part of this site!

I too appreciate the people here on Pws.com, I have learned from alot of people here and thier thoughts and ideas.
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Old 03-07-2005, 03:37 PM   #19
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Way to Go Jammer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
I like to hear people that know how to speak their minds. Its the **** that we keep building up inside us that ends up making us sick and then eventually killing us. A few years ago I was talking on another site, and I ended up bringing up issues dealing with out people and that stuff that still goes on day to day. I would say 90% or so of the so called skins on that site went off the deep end. Speaking about how they didn't want to be surrounding with negativity and that the time spend there was a time for fellowship and peace. Thats major horse ****! Show me one native family that lives a fairy tell life and is still connected to who they are. There is no way in hell you can be connected to who you are and live life like its a bowl of cherries. How can a person forget about the past and what still goes on in the present? They say you must forgive but you don't have to forget. Well I choose not to forgive. Why the hell would I want to forgive a people that killed and tortured my people? Women, children and the oldones? Those that took our lands, our homes, making up forget or loose some of our traditions and ceremonies and now our tongues. People that are afriad to speak out, that are afraid they might go to jail or loose their per caps is messed up big time. Nothing ever comes for free, we have to be the firstt to help ourselfs, to make it known to not just this country but to the world that times have changed. That we are no longer afraid to stand for what we believe in and demand to have what is rightfully ours. I'd have to agree that 1. One of the problems is unity. We are so caught up on comparing each other to ourselfs and our own nations. We use our fight and our spirits to put some much **** down instead of saving it up and using it for something that might eventually help all of us instead of just our families. And 2. I think its high time that we have an AIM of the new millenium. There are so many of us out there now that have degrees, have money, and know how to use the system. We have the resources from west coast to the east coast from the north pole to the southern tip of South America.
...man that's straight-up...and my sentiments exactly although we have to maintain 'adult decorum' in our everyday poise...I would love to go right off on one those "my great grandmother was a cherokee princess types." I once told a princess heir that my great grandfather was an african chief and she didn't believe me. (!) On our rez it also seems that we are our own worse enemies...and still no one to advocate or stick up for the native kids when they refuse to stand and say the pledge of alligence in school...
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Old 03-13-2005, 10:40 PM   #20
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I walk a fine line

Boozhoo niji,

I have very little NDN blood in my veins, not enough to get enrolled but enough to boil when I read stuff like this. It gets me hyped up. I feel like what a lot of these people are posting, get all fired up and condemn the whites and everything they do.

BUT... I cannot bite the hand that feeds me. I gotta have a job, like other white people, work for a white person, so I can put food on my table or even buy enough gas to try and go to a pow wow. Hell the price of gas is going up to 2.50 a gallon this summer, and its gonna be so friggin expensive I am having to cancel my annual trip from Florida to White Earth. I aint too happy about that.

Honestly... I wish the hell I could figure some way to make a lot of money, I would buy up all the land surrounding the reservations, and then give it to them. I cant seem to figure a way to use their system to get back what was taken from us inthe first place. What is worse, they breed like rabbits, and this land is quickly becomming overrun with them so badly that I fear soon enough we wont even be able to make enough food to support everyone.

I would like to support the old ways as much as possible, hunting and gathering, its how we had survived for thousands of years and in those comming times its probably how we are going to survive again. I say let them do what they will do, but when they go starving and are on deaths door, you think our children and grand children will remember how their ancestors were treated when they fed the immigrants? I think they will.

Let em starve to death!

Derek
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