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Old 02-29-2008, 01:01 AM   #81
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are the white girls still on? okay, new subject, when's my gov'ment check comin'?????
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:49 AM   #82
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Sweet Jesus!

I cannot believe folks are so riled about this: drunk, suburban, white girls hopping around.

I am far more concerned about Natives watching Smoke Signals and accepting that a car that only drives in reverse is normalcy.

1. Have a sense of shame.
2. Get a damn job.
3. Fix your car.

Drunk white girls don't concern me. Natives that have such tiny self-esteem as to be threatened by drunk white girls, do. Seriously, by whining about this, you have just given the power of viability to Betty and Veronica...

Let it GO.
Zeke, I totally agree with you in point 1,2,3 and that those kids
-white or brown or black or yellow doesn't matter to me-
shouldn't be given more power, although they will not kill us with this video.

What I think is that this bothers many people, because things like this are ignored too often. And why? Because nobody wants to be involved in anything or stand up for something? Comfort-zone-thinking?

To me this subject is very important, since I have kids myself, and 2 of them are at the same age. I hope and pray they will never ever be showing so very little respect towards others, themselves, their body, culture, .... but be sensitive and respectful and show responsibility and think.

Alcohol has so many negative effects... this video showed a group of kids having fun. Yes, fun. But what kind of fun? Excuse me, but I also don't think it's funny to sh** on neighbor's property. Some kids think it's fun. What sort of fun do they need to feel good? Why is alcohol needed? Why didn't they think before they posted their 'cool' video? If they didn't think it was cool, they wouldn't have posted it. My opinion. I'm assuming here, sorry, I would really like to talk with those girls though. I would really like to talk with their parents, their teachers, their friends, their neighbors...something must have gone wrong.

I believe and feel that I'm right when I say: We need to pay better attention to kids! They need attention! They need love, the feeling of being accepted and 'cool', they need to know- really know- that they are the future.... each and every kid is so very important!

Now what are we going to do? Ignore them and their actions? Paying attention to their negative actions is not good in my opinion, they learn to get more attention with being 'bad' then.

But this thread is on, and many thanks to MOTS! I feel a huge need to discuss these things. For me it is no racists subject, it is more a subject about how lost our kids feel. Our kids, I include all sexes and races, not only these video actresses. Maybe they were even looking for culture, because they are missing something in their lives?

Yes, what they did was wrong and their actions were not really honoring Indians. Not at all. But why do they think it's cool to do such things? That's just sad, and it needs to be stopped before they go further, get lost in alcohol, get lost in depressions, get lost in loneliness, get lost in 'no future'-thinking....

If they were proud of who they are, they would not have done this! If they respected culture more, they would not have done this. If they really deeply believed, they would not have done this. It makes me sad.

I will not just sit here and look away and think...hey, they were just having a blast....oh no!

Somebody who is not showing respect has doubts about himself/herself. This is what I'm convinced of.

We can help. Just open our eyes and show love, give love and understanding, but also set boundaries.... our kids need them.

Never let such things go!!!!
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:04 AM   #83
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Drunk white girls don't concern me.....

it concerns me because if they're drunk, WHERE THE HECK AM I AT?!?!?!?!!?......LOL!!!!
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:25 AM   #84
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:43 AM   #85
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"Guards?"

If you're going to make a claim, significant accusation requires significant proof. (What were these men doing that would require the presence of, or authorized assignment, of "guards," for example?)

And how -- per se -- is that impacted by the the drunken, and ridiculous, frolicking of underage white girls?
So what would be the threshold to trigger indignation?
Racism can be subtle all the way to blatant
So we set our tolerance level to just above what is depicted in this video but how far above???
Where is the threshold?
When do we say enough
Or do we stay good little ndn's and say Nothing!
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:12 AM   #86
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So what would be the threshold to trigger indignation?
Racism can be subtle all the way to blatant
So we set our tolerance level to just above what is depicted in this video but how far above???
Where is the threshold?
When do we say enough
Or do we be good little ndn's and say Nothing!
Hm...and then?

"Indians can take a lot"
"Indians never cry"
"Indians feel no pain"

So just treat them bad, they don't care anyway...otherwise they would say something and ask for being respected.

Yes, of course everybody needs to have fun and a good laugh, but still 'command respect'.
We're the captain of our own ship, and nobody else but us can set limits of how bad or good we want to be treated. My opinion.
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:51 AM   #87
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So what would be the threshold to trigger indignation?
When it actually does some meaningful harm. Drunk white girls are not it. Neither are mascots, "Chief," or "Injun."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Or do we stay good little ndn's and say Nothing!
Or do we act as stunted little children, with paper-thin skin, who wail about the tiniest torment: real or imagined?

That's the problem, not drunk white girls.
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:58 AM   #88
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[QUOTE=Zeke;1028955]When it actually does some meaningful harm. Drunk white girls are not it. Neither are mascots, "Chief," or "Injun." [QUOTE]

since youve got all the answers when is it if its not drunk white girls or chiefs or mascots? where should that magic mark be drawn?how much racism is too much, as you see it?

does the occassional slap constitute spousal abuse or mean thing said make it verbal abuse?
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:05 AM   #89
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does the occassional slap constitute spousal abuse or mean thing said make it verbal abuse?
Does a tiny bit of Straw Man argument constitute a complete fallacy?
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:31 AM   #90
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so...... in other words you havent got a clue either?
what kind of a know it all are you?
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:45 AM   #91
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so...... in other words you havent got a clue either?
what kind of a know it all are you?
One who isn't threatened by drunk white girls?
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:54 AM   #92
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what kind of a know it all are you?
A TROLL kind of "know it all"
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:54 AM   #93
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maybe so, but you still havent answered the question of how much is enough for it to be racism
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:59 AM   #94
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maybe so, but you still havent answered the question of how much is enough for it to be racism
See post 87, retort #1.

It's pretty clear...
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:14 AM   #95
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and that would be what? what makes it meaningful harm? isnt riddicul meaningfull? or did the drinking take the meaning out of it?

you cant edict whats viewed as harmfull to all people. when i was a kid woody woodpecker and buggs bunny cartoons were called harmfull because of the so-called violence and look at where the cartoon violence is today.it just sounds like you want to put a quantitative value on an esoteric concept thats going to change from person to person and i dont thing it can be done.i think any is too much

how much meaningful harm is what im looking for, and meaningful to whom. obviously it didnt bother the girls in the video untill they got caught,obviously it bothers some people here. what im asking is how meaningful does it have to be and how much harm does it have to do before its racism
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:35 AM   #96
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how much harm does it have to do before its racism
None. Nor does it become harmful by virtue of being racist. (The two are NOT tied.)

If the actions of a gaggle of drunken girls somehow, latently or significantly, harm an American Indian, the issue lies not with the drunken covey: it lies with the thin-skinned, ineffectual, "poor me", "I am so disadvantaged" and embarrassing Natives that shame us all. (They're just looking to blame drunken white girls for their plight.)

The girls are not a problem. The incessant whining about the girls, IS. Why? It just proves the whole Native Pride movement is paper tiger crap. If you are truly secure, this stuff is meaningless.

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Old 02-29-2008, 10:35 AM   #97
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Hm, I think racism is like pregnancy, either you are pregnant or not, there is no such thing as...a little bit pregnant.

These girls made a mistake, they hopefully learned something. Do I feel attacked by them? No. I'm used to worse things.

Should it all have been ignored? No, because they need to know what's right and what's wrong.

Why do I worry and post? Because there is a "chance" that these girls and kids in general don't do it anymore, and another chance that they think it's cool to get so much attention with bad behavior...maybe more attention than they are getting when they are trying to be good girls...now they are like 'stars' somehow. Hopefully not proud but sorry.

I worry about our kids, I don't want them to be in jail some day... and better do something now than when it's too late.
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:50 AM   #98
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Do I feel attacked by them? No.
So, what's the problem?

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I worry about our kids, I don't want them to be in jail some day...
Those aren't my kids!
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:02 AM   #99
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
None. Nor does it become harmful by virtue of being racist. (The two are NOT tied.)

If the actions of a gaggle of drunken girls somehow, latently or significantly, harm an American Indian, the issue lies not with the drunken covey: it lies with the thin-skinned, ineffectual, "poor me", "I am so disadvantaged" and embarrassing Natives that shame us all. (They're just looking to blame drunken white girls for their plight.)

The girls are not a problem. The incessant whining about the girls, IS. Why? It just proves the whole Native Pride movement is paper tiger crap. If you are truly secure, this stuff is meaningless.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
so youre saying that even in ignorance the frame of thought that says we are some how a lesser spiecies for whatever reason is our own fault? thats like saying back when blacks couldnt use white peoples water fountains it was their own fault for being black. were they 'ineffectual poor me, im so disadvantaged' too for saying it was wrong? was rosa parks refusing to sit at the back of the bus paper tiger crap?

granted, the degree to which a person is offended is up in the air. how thin-skinned a person is has no barrometer,but racism is racism solely on the fact that its racism. no, the girls arent the problem but the manefestation of the racist mind is and to a greater effect the racist mind itself. and to take a 'lay back and take it' stance is almost as disturbing.
i just dont see budding bigotry as meaningless.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:41 AM   #100
hey *g*
 
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So, what's the problem? :thinking

Those aren't my kids!
I'm thinking, too. I don't feel attacked
but I worry about future, culture, ....

Those are not my kids either.
Still they are kids and will be grown up some day and probably have their own kids some day.

All I want is a 'better world'. Why not? I'm not frustrated, I'm not willing to look away and not take responsibility for anything like some people love to just lean back and watch and then vent and complain.

Is this a problem? If yes, then I'm having a problem lol. Or am I only allowed to post as long as I'm complaining and whining? Sorry I'm not like that.

My 'problem' is that so many people watch kids like these girls do things and just don't care....they don't care at all what their or other parents' kids are doing.... they are being lazy or frustrated or scared, if I knew!

My 'problem' is that I think this is not a racism problem here, to me it is more about feeling attacked easily and why, and what to do to feel better. Yes.

These kids are not grown up, and their parents and teachers and their environment caused all this. Kids are never bad, they are just trying to get attention and trying to find out how life works.

I don't blame it on them, and to me they are no racists for they can still decide to grow up in a different way and change. Kids are our future, and we HAVE TO pay attention to them all, no matter what color, no matter whether they are your kids or my kids or xyz's kids. Get in gear and don't hide in a den and wait.... and complain.

Sooooooo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The problem I'm seeing here is lack of education, attention and maybe love rather than racism. To me anyway.

Maybe I'm going too deep into this subject because of my own experience when I was a girl of their age, and my life could have been much easier if somebody would have payed any attention to me. Made me stronger, but I know many who went through similar things but are addicts now or in jail. Sad. Would have been so easy to 'rescue' them by boundaries and love.

I think those who are having a real heavy problem with feeling attacked by these girls are hurt, and they will probably feel hurt by such things forever. Frustration, resignation... or do something?

I think people can either feel attacked because they identify themselves very much with a certain situation or role like being a victim... or they feel attacked because they are really attacked.
Personally attacked. These girls do not attack anybody in person. Still they need to learn a lot about respect!!!!
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