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Old 03-24-2009, 05:38 PM   #281
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A man is not most of the time going to admit that he was fooled by a plastic ndn, anymore than he is going to admit that he ought one of those pills off the TV that is supposed to make you bigger and that didn't work either....


You're probably right about it being equal. Was speaking from my own limited observation. Sounds like you've been watching longer, so point taken.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:43 PM   #282
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Letting go etc....

I have read nearly all of these posts/ discussions and truly feel that what I heard from many people & elders from many nations, is that if that 'fake' medicine person has no power given to him/her by Creator, then they really can do no harm, or if they take ceremonies/teachings & perform them incorrectly or for the wrong reasons, the real medicine will come back and do them harm. If they have no power, they can't hurt a fly. If they do happen to call on some type of power, that power or medicine will know the difference and harm them in some way. I find the fakes incredibly annoying, but then you wonder what kind of 'lost souls' are trying to find anyone to teach them about Native ways. The buyers are as stupid as the sellers of fake ceremonies/ medicine people. It reminds me of the whole Nigerian Bank scam, that sends you an email saying that you won millions in a Nigerian lottery or that you have check with your name on it & that you just need to wire a huge amount money for fees to so & so, so that they can send you your check. Would you really believe that you won a Nigerian lottery & send the money?? I'd like to think that most of us wouldn't. BUT enough gullible people have done just that, and this in turn has caused the scam-artists to send out even more emails/ checks & become more creative in ways to steal money. I look at most of these posts & laugh because it's like Zeke said, we are all beating our heads into a brick wall. The fakes will realize they cant fool everyone & eventually close shop, or God-forbid, Creator will act on their selfish ways & cause them to become sick, or get struck by lightening. well maybe them getting really sick would be ok ! All in all, the fakes will get thier just desserts in the end, we just happen to be incredibly annoyed at it, & wasting our God given energy on it does us no good. When child is upset & throwing a fit, the first thing I learned in daycare was to ignore the fit, making sure he or she was safe, but ignoring the fit, took away the reaction the child wanted. If we can all ignore the fake medicine people, their validity will go out the door as well. Yeah they piss me off too, but Im not wasting my energy on anything that is fake...

One of my favorite quotes:
"When a man lies, he murders a part of the world."
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:17 AM   #283
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New expose of fake:

"Windsong" Levitch of Memphis, TN (fortunately, that's not her real first name, so I'm not technically identifying anyone in a manner which would cross the line to libel).

This foul-mouthed liar claims to be a high-level Ojibway Midewiwin, and she even "speaks in tongues" hoping tourists will believe she is speaking Anishinaabe...although the one time I observed a full-blood Ojibway bump into her, suddenly Windsong clammed up and explained the unintelligible babble: "I guess we speak a different dialect!"

She claims to be Turtle Clan from White Earth (a rez which has no turtle clan), and has fantastic stories of her own prominence: "I am Leonard Peltier's cousin" and "I gave Dennis Banks the idea for the BIA takeover, and I was there" and "I was at Wounded Knee for the first few days" and "I told my Rez to get off its *** and do something, so they expelled me for being a trouble-maker", and "I was born during the harshest storm in Minnesota history" (which is actually Janet McCLoud's birth story), etc. She reads books and then "borrows" the stories as her autobiography.

Weirder claims by her are that men greet Ojibway medicine women by kneeling and holding the woman's hand to his forehead. She adores crystals and arranges "crystal altars" while feigning these to be Midewiwin rites.

Windsong is also in some crisis, usually health-related, that engenders sympathy from Whites and wins her donations, financial support, gifts, and special treatment. She's been "about to die" for twenty years. Her friends include White hobbyists, but apparently no actual Native people. She can be found selling cheap beadwork ("tourists don't buy anything unless it's junk") and hired as a storyteller at festivals.

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Old 05-10-2009, 12:49 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Smokinghawk View Post
New expose of fake:

"Windsong" Levitch of Memphis, TN (fortunately, that's not her real first name, so I'm not technically identifying anyone in a manner which would cross the line to libel).

This foul-mouthed liar claims to be a high-level Ojibway Midewiwin, and she even "speaks in tongues" hoping tourists will believe she is speaking Anishinaabe...although the one time I observed a full-blood Ojibway bump into her, suddenly Windsong clammed up and explained the unintelligible babble: "I guess we speak a different dialect!"

She claims to be Turtle Clan form White Earth (a rez which has no turtle clan), and has fantastic stories of her own prominence: "I am Leonard Peltier's cousin" and "I gave Dennis Banks the idea for the BIA takeover, and I was there" and "I was at Wounded Knee for the first few days" and "I told my Rez to get off its *** and do something, so they expelled me for being a trouble-maker", and "I was born during the harshest storm in Minnesota history" (which is actually Janet McCLoud's birth story), etc. She reads books and then "borrows" the stories as her autobiography.

Weirder claims by her are that men greet Ojibway medicine women by kneeling and holding the woman's hand to his forehead. She adores crystals and arranges "crystal altars" while feigning these to be Midewiwin rites.

Windsong is also in some crisis, usually health-related, that engenders sympathy from Whites and wins her donations, financial support, gifts, and special treatment. She's been "about to die" for twenty years. Her friends include White hobbyists, but apparently no actual Native people. She can be found selling cheap beadwork ("tourists don't buy anything unless it's junk") and hired as a storyteller at festivals.
Ugh! Sound like white woman sucking off system of Ojib people!

Must have big medicine. Maybe carry baby asprin in pocket next to crystal!

Wounded Knee? Hope she heal soon! That way she no walk funny!

Show respect, bow from long distance. That way she no see you laugh!!!

20 years to die, long time. Maybe someone help her out soon!



With me talk like that, should be in old western movies. yes? no?
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:33 PM   #285
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camel medicine

I don't know baby aspirin sounds like good medicine to me though it is not so
good for babies they say. Personally I am rooting for camel medicine.
The ability to travel long distances without requiring much water.
Besides it would be a boon to be able to spit that far.

annie
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:43 PM   #286
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I don't know baby aspirin sounds like good medicine to me though it is not so
good for babies they say. Personally I am rooting for camel medicine.
The ability to travel long distances without requiring much water.
Besides it would be a boon to be able to spit that far.

annie
OIC those little magic balls the camel drops behind them. Could be!
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:09 PM   #287
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Sorry bad joke

Well obviously you are not amused. Sorry bad joke. Never was good at timing.
I should just remember to unsubscribe.
I don't know anything about Windsong. I find it ignorant that anyone would make such claims. How about a public statement refuting her claims.





annie
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:48 PM   #288
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Well obviously you are not amused. Sorry bad joke. Never was good at timing.
I should just remember to unsubscribe.
I don't know anything about Windsong. I find it ignorant that anyone would make such claims. How about a public statement refuting her claims.





annie
Naw Annie Don't leave us. Maybe you just don't understand my warped sense of humor.

I would sure like to meet Ms. Windsong in person. I would like to hear her for myself. Usually the fakes won't come on the forum to defend themselves. However sometimes a follower will try.

I'm a fairly opened guy around here. I'll usually listen however when you hear a report that seems so far fetched, you gotta joke and laugh a bit.

Hang around and join in the fun!
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:55 PM   #289
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Thanks

Thanks but I am starting a new hobby. Shooting virtual deer at the local watering hole. Keeps me out of trouble sometimes.



annie
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:04 PM   #290
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Thanks but I am starting a new hobby. Shooting virtual deer at the local watering hole. Keeps me out of trouble sometimes.



annie
So we shoot virtual deer. Do we then tan virtual hides to make virtual regulia? That would work well for a powwow on the internet reality game called Second Life! I just had to say that!

Have fun Annie!
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:21 PM   #291
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wrong season

Works for me. I wanted to shoot a real deer but apparently you have to wait until sept to do that at least in nj. I din't know people made regalia out of deer skin.


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Old 05-11-2009, 10:19 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Smokinghawk View Post
New expose of fake:

"Windsong" Levitch of Memphis, TN (fortunately, that's not her real first name, so I'm not technically identifying anyone in a manner which would cross the line to libel).

This foul-mouthed liar claims to be a high-level Ojibway Midewiwin, and she even "speaks in tongues" hoping tourists will believe she is speaking Anishinaabe...although the one time I observed a full-blood Ojibway bump into her, suddenly Windsong clammed up and explained the unintelligible babble: "I guess we speak a different dialect!"

She claims to be Turtle Clan form White Earth (a rez which has no turtle clan), and has fantastic stories of her own prominence: "I am Leonard Peltier's cousin" and "I gave Dennis Banks the idea for the BIA takeover, and I was there" and "I was at Wounded Knee for the first few days" and "I told my Rez to get off its *** and do something, so they expelled me for being a trouble-maker", and "I was born during the harshest storm in Minnesota history" (which is actually Janet McCLoud's birth story), etc. She reads books and then "borrows" the stories as her autobiography.

Weirder claims by her are that men greet Ojibway medicine women by kneeling and holding the woman's hand to his forehead. She adores crystals and arranges "crystal altars" while feigning these to be Midewiwin rites.

Windsong is also in some crisis, usually health-related, that engenders sympathy from Whites and wins her donations, financial support, gifts, and special treatment. She's been "about to die" for twenty years. Her friends include White hobbyists, but apparently no actual Native people. She can be found selling cheap beadwork ("tourists don't buy anything unless it's junk") and hired as a storyteller at festivals.
After a quick Google search on "Windsong Levitch," I came up with the following sites of interest.

Windsong Levitch | Facebook

Kerlak Enterprises - The Lighter Side of Dark

Native American Home Crafts 5/17/2009 - Missa's Urban Home on Blog Talk Radio
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:24 PM   #293
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Windsong Levitch

This person is just setting herself up for a major crash. The people who have hired her as an Ojibway storyteller/ healer- whatever, hopefully are going to sue her for fraud. The Ojibway should sue her for misrepresenting their people & culture. I really do hope she gets "Siouxed" in at least one way or another!! AYE!!!
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:31 PM   #294
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Wait wait wait.... How the hell do you plan a lawsuit for that? Who would be the victim ? What is the crime ? "Ojibwe" is not a business or a logo... or any kind of copywritten product....

.. so what is being stolen ?

Sorry ---but this does not fall under "identity theft" because the identity being mimiced is not a legal identity with a SSN ... it is "an idea"... an uncopywritten idea...

.. thus, no case.

Also, how is getting money from this NOT the same as getting money from the Black Hills ?

Contradiction City.

I think the lady is shameful and disrespectful--- but I also refuse to give up my morals and I refuse to be inconsitent with my stance.

Thus--- fakes are just fly-by night schemers....

If the Ojibwe Nation is sooo weak that this fraud actually is a threat.... well... then that is a whole other topic thread.

If you really feel passionate about it... go and burn her HQ down. Stop talking and get s**t done.

Either ignore her or put a stop to her.

Please..please..please... Stop just complaining about it.

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Old 05-13-2009, 12:31 AM   #295
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Wait wait wait.... How the hell do you plan a lawsuit for that? Who would be the victim ? What is the crime ? "Ojibwe" is not a business or a logo... or any kind of copywritten product....

.. so what is being stolen ?

Sorry ---but this does not fall under "identity theft" because the identity being mimiced is not a legal identity with a SSN ... it is "an idea"... an uncopywritten idea...

.. thus, no case.

Also, how is getting money from this NOT the same as getting money from the Black Hills ?

Contradiction City.

I think the lady is shameful and disrespectful--- but I also refuse to give up my morals and I refuse to be inconsitent with my stance.

Thus--- fakes are just fly-by night schemers....

If the Ojibwe Nation is sooo weak that this fraud actually is a threat.... well... then that is a whole other topic thread.

If you really feel passionate about it... go and burn her HQ down. Stop talking and get s**t done.

Either ignore her or put a stop to her.

Please..please..please... Stop just complaining about it.
I think the best you could take her down on is "fraud by deception" a minor crime that gets a slap on the wrist and a small fine. Then she goes on her merry way crying how she was accused and abused by the system. It will be the poor indian princess the white man is trying to extinguish. Just trying to get the authorities to look at her will be like moving the world. Building a case will be like moving the world back.

Taking her down any other way would be illegal and cause her to become the victim and you the one standing trial.

Remember the best they could get Al Capone on is federal tax evasion.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:53 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Smokinghawk View Post
New expose of fake:

"Windsong" Levitch of Memphis, TN (fortunately, that's not her real first name, so I'm not technically identifying anyone in a manner which would cross the line to libel).

This foul-mouthed liar claims to be a high-level Ojibway Midewiwin, and she even "speaks in tongues" hoping tourists will believe she is speaking Anishinaabe...although the one time I observed a full-blood Ojibway bump into her, suddenly Windsong clammed up and explained the unintelligible babble: "I guess we speak a different dialect!"

She claims to be Turtle Clan form White Earth (a rez which has no turtle clan), and has fantastic stories of her own prominence: "I am Leonard Peltier's cousin" and "I gave Dennis Banks the idea for the BIA takeover, and I was there" and "I was at Wounded Knee for the first few days" and "I told my Rez to get off its *** and do something, so they expelled me for being a trouble-maker", and "I was born during the harshest storm in Minnesota history" (which is actually Janet McCLoud's birth story), etc. She reads books and then "borrows" the stories as her autobiography.

Weirder claims by her are that men greet Ojibway medicine women by kneeling and holding the woman's hand to his forehead. She adores crystals and arranges "crystal altars" while feigning these to be Midewiwin rites.

Windsong is also in some crisis, usually health-related, that engenders sympathy from Whites and wins her donations, financial support, gifts, and special treatment. She's been "about to die" for twenty years. Her friends include White hobbyists, but apparently no actual Native people. She can be found selling cheap beadwork ("tourists don't buy anything unless it's junk") and hired as a storyteller at festivals.
If she is selling beadwork as something made by an Ojibwe, and it is not, she is in violation of the law. Fines range from a quarter million to a 5 million bux. It would be interesting to see if "storytelling" constituted a product, but the beadwork is definitely actionable.


Here's a recap of the law:

The Indian Arts and Crafts Law
Public Law 101-644

The U.S. Department of the Interior's Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 give a recap (below) and also provides links to the actual Act.

The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 (P.L. 101-644) is a truth-in-advertising law that prohibits misrepresentation in marketing of Indian arts and crafts products within the United States. It is illegal to offer or display for sale, or sell any art or craft product in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian Tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization, resident within the United States. For a first time violation of the Act, an individual can face civil or criminal penalties up to a $250,000 fine or a 5-year prison term, or both. If a business violates the Act, it can face civil penalties or can be prosecuted and fined up to $1,000,000.

Under the Act, an Indian is defined as a member of any federally or State recognized Indian Tribe, or an individual certified as an Indian artisan by an Indian Tribe.

The law covers all Indian and Indian-style traditional and contemporary arts and crafts produced after 1935. The Act broadly applies to the marketing of arts and crafts by any person in the United States. Some traditional items frequently copied by non-Indians include Indian-style jewelry, pottery, baskets, carved stone fetishes, woven rugs, kachina dolls, and clothing.

All products must be marketed truthfully regarding the Indian heritage and tribal affiliation of the producers, so as not to mislead the consumer. It is illegal to market an art or craft item using the name of a tribe if a member, or certified Indian artisan, of that tribe did not actually create the art or craft item.

For example, products sold using a sign claiming "Indian Jewelry" would be a violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act if the jewelry was produced by someone other than a member, or certified Indian artisan, of an Indian tribe. Products advertised as "Hopi Jewelry" would be in violation of the Act if they were produced by someone who is not a member, or certified Indian artisan, of the Hopi tribe.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:58 AM   #297
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art

between2worlds,
Well you would think that would be a deterent.
What you posted looks like the start of several new threads.

If I am understanding The Indian Arts and Crafts Law correctly
then simply put if one can not demonstrate tribal affliation
by law can not advertise as such. Which seems like one way of keeping
people from misrepresenting themselves and their art.

As to the sharing of ideas and themes among artists no law could ever or should ever stop that.

For example one of the oldest symbols in every kind of art across the globe
is two lines intersected to form a cross. This symbol in all its variations is
in every tradition in one form or another.

If she is misrepresenting herself for financial gain then obviously she should be called on it.





annie
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:01 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds View Post
If she is selling beadwork as something made by an Ojibwe, and it is not, she is in violation of the law. Fines range from a quarter million to a 5 million bux. It would be interesting to see if "storytelling" constituted a product, but the beadwork is definitely actionable.


Here's a recap of the law:

The Indian Arts and Crafts Law
Public Law 101-644

The U.S. Department of the Interior's Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 give a recap (below) and also provides links to the actual Act.

The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 (P.L. 101-644) is a truth-in-advertising law that prohibits misrepresentation in marketing of Indian arts and crafts products within the United States. It is illegal to offer or display for sale, or sell any art or craft product in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian Tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization, resident within the United States. For a first time violation of the Act, an individual can face civil or criminal penalties up to a $250,000 fine or a 5-year prison term, or both. If a business violates the Act, it can face civil penalties or can be prosecuted and fined up to $1,000,000.

Under the Act, an Indian is defined as a member of any federally or State recognized Indian Tribe, or an individual certified as an Indian artisan by an Indian Tribe.

The law covers all Indian and Indian-style traditional and contemporary arts and crafts produced after 1935. The Act broadly applies to the marketing of arts and crafts by any person in the United States. Some traditional items frequently copied by non-Indians include Indian-style jewelry, pottery, baskets, carved stone fetishes, woven rugs, kachina dolls, and clothing.

All products must be marketed truthfully regarding the Indian heritage and tribal affiliation of the producers, so as not to mislead the consumer. It is illegal to market an art or craft item using the name of a tribe if a member, or certified Indian artisan, of that tribe did not actually create the art or craft item.

For example, products sold using a sign claiming "Indian Jewelry" would be a violation of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act if the jewelry was produced by someone other than a member, or certified Indian artisan, of an Indian tribe. Products advertised as "Hopi Jewelry" would be in violation of the Act if they were produced by someone who is not a member, or certified Indian artisan, of the Hopi tribe.
Then it should only be a matter of turning Windsong in with a few photos of her and her stuff so it seems. The person who reported to this thread should take responsibility to do this. After all, she has first hand knowlege.

At that point upon investigation, Windsong must prove her tribal affilation. Should be simple stuff.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:29 PM   #299
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Does that Indian Act cover Canadian tribes--- I wondered... considering that Anne Mae's murder was not considered "indian death" because she was not a member of a US Government recognized tribe ('cause she was First Nations)

...does that mean the Indian Arts and Crafts Law cover only USA recognized tribes, or Canadian tribes too ?

Anybody know ?
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:02 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IlnuSoldier View Post
Does that Indian Act cover Canadian tribes--- I wondered... considering that Anne Mae's murder was not considered "indian death" because she was not a member of a US Government recognized tribe ('cause she was First Nations)

...does that mean the Indian Arts and Crafts Law cover only USA recognized tribes, or Canadian tribes too ?

Anybody know ?
Good question!

I would hope that because it deals in Indian made crafts, it would encompass all North American tribes.

Different laws applied with Anne Mae
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