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Old 10-01-2007, 04:39 PM   #41
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Tiki--What she is talking about is a group that calls themselves "The Cherokee Wolf Clan of TN", I believe that that's their name (unless there is another group out there and there might be). There really is a Wolf clan through the Cherokee people, one of my Uncles is actually Wolf Clan right on the Res. But this group claims themselves this way and they have a so called "Chief" and all of that. I have asked questions about them actually in Cherokee and the answer that I got was that they are not Federally recognized as a tribe and that the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indian's doesn't recognize them either as Wolf Clan or a part of the Cherokee people. That's not in anyway to say that they are not Descendents of the Cherokee people, somewhere, but they are claiming to be more then what they are in many peoples views.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:00 PM   #42
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thank you TT, I was confused. I now remember hearing of them before but I forgot all about them.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Tiki--What she is talking about is a group that calls themselves "The Cherokee Wolf Clan of TN", I believe that that's their name (unless there is another group out there and there might be). There really is a Wolf clan through the Cherokee people, one of my Uncles is actually Wolf Clan right on the Res. But this group claims themselves this way and they have a so called "Chief" and all of that. I have asked questions about them actually in Cherokee and the answer that I got was that they are not Federally recognized as a tribe and that the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indian's doesn't recognize them either as Wolf Clan or a part of the Cherokee people. That's not in anyway to say that they are not Descendents of the Cherokee people, somewhere, but they are claiming to be more then what they are in many peoples views.

This group is a sham! I spoke to their "Chief" (hate even using that phrase) and they are a group of people claiming Cherokee descent and trying to get federally recognized as a tribe. They advertise that they have federal tax-exempt status as a tribe, but this is a half-truth...they have federal tax-exempt status because they are set up as a church and, as you know, churches are not taxed. I can foresee many of these groups trying this tactic in the near future trying to lure "members" - paying members at that - with promises of tax-free Indian status.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:17 PM   #44
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I think it's sad that they prey on good people who are trying to reclaim their roots so to speak. I think part of the problem is the predjudice mixed bloods meet when they try to assimilate themselves in the native community. The other half of the problem is idiots that want to make a buck or juts be cool or whatever they gain from it. I probably used the wrong words but I hope you get the meaning.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:29 PM   #45
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It is sad

I think it is sad too. And I wonder just how rampant this situation is. Those of you who have been doing research, can you throw out some numbers? Just how many groups are we talking about that are believed to be fake? Also, throw out some more names of these groups seeking recognition if you can. Thanks
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:36 PM   #46
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This group is a sham! I spoke to their "Chief" (hate even using that phrase) and they are a group of people claiming Cherokee descent and trying to get federally recognized as a tribe. They advertise that they have federal tax-exempt status as a tribe, but this is a half-truth...they have federal tax-exempt status because they are set up as a church and, as you know, churches are not taxed. I can foresee many of these groups trying this tactic in the near future trying to lure "members" - paying members at that - with promises of tax-free Indian status



Now, Wojapi4me---this is exactly what I'm talking about. I agree with you 150% and these are the very groups, not some other's--but these. I have not spoken with the "Chief" as you have nor anyone else in that group, but I have heard alot about them from those who have, that's why I kept my judgement to myself until you stated what you know. I have looked at their info and talked to people, but didn't talk to anyone of that group. But look into some of the others, they do the exact same thing---many of them do that stating freedom of religion act. I have looked into a few of them and many just like this one go with the 501c3's and add or use the Freedom of Religion to get away with it. I do know what you mean by the phrase, but when it's what it is--that's all you can do. I don't like some phrases either but have used them to make my points as well. And some of them actually do list their ancestor's in their bio. Look at those as well.LOL YOu will find out more. Just a thought there.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:43 PM   #47
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It is sad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is sad too. And I wonder just how rampant this situation is. Those of you who have been doing research, can you throw out some numbers? Just how many groups are we talking about that are believed to be fake? Also, throw out some more names of these groups seeking recognition if you can. Thanks


They have been put on these threads before by many others. Go to the site on the Federal Housing and you will see some very large lists of many different "Cherokee Tribes" alone. The numbers are very large. It is very rampant.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:51 PM   #48
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Exclamation

There is another group stationed out of the Virginia area that call themselves...Meti...and want federal status..
Right now they have the "church status".

These people are in Fla. trying to get others to join so they can spread the word the are Indians and get recognition. The so called chief also states they have State Recognized status...when I pinned him down...again...that church tax exempt part came up. Seems many of the members of this group do not know they are a church when asked.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:57 PM   #49
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Ok

TT - the only list I saw on this thread was a partial list of State recognized tribes and I don't think anyone is trying to say that all State recognized tribes are fake. What I am looking for is a list of groups the the Cherokee wolf clan of TN that are gererally thought to be fake by people like you and BB and others who have spent so much time researching these groups. Thanks...
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:01 PM   #50
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Cheshire Cat--That's just it and that's the sadest part of the whole thing. So many people are being taken by these idiot con-men and some women too. They pray on those who are just looking for a place to belong, meanwhile the "top" idiots are padding their pockets and getting these ego trips that many people give them.

I saw a woman come up to one of my uncles once and she was just beaming and talking to him about this so-called "Cherokee Chief" and she asked him "Do you know Chief so and so?" My uncle looked at her and said "I only know one Cherokee Chief and he's in NC." Which is where my uncle is from. You should have seen her face at that point. She was totally let down that the man that she was talking about wasn't as big of a deal as she had thought that he was. I felt bad for her, but it was the trueth.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:12 PM   #51
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Yellowthundersmama: I don't know them all, I only know two or three or maybe a few more. But I have been told that I am not allowed to mention names on the internet, this did come straight from my Uncle on the res and I have to respect that. I only mentioned that name because it had already come up in the topic and someone else had brought it up, that I can do.

Many of these who claim to be "State" recognized, if you look into them they really aren't. That's the point to some of this as well. They falsify their info to make themselves look like more then what they are. And even then you have to find out what is what like BB and Coyote and Wojape and so many other's have been saying. Look at these names and then go into the Attorney general's website for where you are or the state that these tribes claim to be of. Find out when they got recognized, how they got recognized and what their mission statements are, this will tell you an aweful lot about these people and then from there--look into the people who claim to be the "Chiefs" now, this can get really interesting.LOL I do know that on another site there was one listed from (I think) WVA--now I know of that one as well and they are definately something. I, again, didn't deal with those involved, just with a woman who was getting involved and it was so sad what they were telling her and had her believing.
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:50 AM   #52
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The Wolf clan Cherokee of TN are'nt just made up of people claiming cherokee descendancy, but they used to if they don't still, advertise that they took in anyone who thought they might be part indian based on how they thought of themselves.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:07 AM   #53
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BB--I don't know either if that's what they do or not. I was given their pamphlet about 2-3 years ago by a friend of mine who had been going through TN and stopped at a Rest stop and their pamphlets were there. Now, I turned that pamphlet over to someone from Cherokee. But, what I had read (if memory serves me right) was that to join you had to give them you ancestry line, but I don't recall them asking for anykind of documentation or proof, just who you claim to come through and to pay a due. Now, that makes me suspecious.
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:10 PM   #54
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Lightbulb Thats obvious.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbear View Post
Realize first I'm not talking about groups like the lumbee or similar people who've never had federal status but have always remained a tribal entity or had their status removed.

I'm speaking more of splinter groups who break off because they don't like their currant government or status in it. And of groups like the wolf clan cherokee who are made up of people who "feel indian". Also groups like the ones started by that guy who was just recently arrested for granting citizenship to illegal aliens. None of those groups existed before the 60's or 70's and many are motivated by money.

It's one thing to have a community who's always been indian and it's another to have a new community of people who have always heard they had an indian ancestor form a group. I'm not against the latter learning or forming clubs to celebrate an ancestry, but to form a new group based on rumour because suddenly they feel they deserve everything that those that have never hid their identity and remained the people that they are regardless of quantum simply because they may or may not have this one ancestor... is plain ridiculous to me.

I'd rather accept them as someone of /with (possible) indian ancestry without status than someone belonging to a fake tribe. I just have more respect for those that are who they are then trying to convince me of something they are when they have'nt been close to it in generations if at all.

I know that sounds confusing but maybe you understand what I'm saying.
I understand what your saying.....Although my point is not about obvious bubble gum, potato chip situations....
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:01 PM   #55
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an example

Let's take the Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania. They are unrecognized by the state or federal government and have used the non-profit model/status to organize themselves. But they damn sure are Indians! They speak their language and have clear documentation of lineage. The PA government has always been anti-Indian. It was being taught as late as the 1990s in PA public schools that all the Indians were killed or pushed out of PA. Penn State University still runs the only assimilation program that I know of in the country called the American Indian Leadership Program. The PA government will never recognize any Indians because they fear having to give back any land that was stolen on the walk. The PA government is also very anti-gambling unless the casino is owned by a white man – then it is cool. And gambling and recognition are intertwined in the fearful PA government’s brains.
So, I think it is dangerous to make blanket statements like non-profit status make them fake or they are fake if they have been recognized in the last 30-40 years. Unless you know every group out there and their unique situation, you just can’t accurately make such a statement. And this brings us right back to the point about recognition that Zeke and Coyote have been making all along.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:10 PM   #56
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that's why I have been sayin git's hard to sort it all out. a few rotten apples in the barrel.... ya know
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:35 PM   #57
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Ya I know

That is why I asked for a list - who are all these fake tribes? Let's get it out in the open then those that are not fake can defend themselves. And where is the conception that is is rampant coming from? You need numbers to make that claim.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #58
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To make a Blanket Statement that all non-profit or State Recognized tribes are fake is not accurate

The problem lies with the fact that Federally Recognized and State Recognized has a totally different criteria and it varies from State to State even

However All Fake tribes that con people out of there money are for the most part FAKE. Not saying that Ndns are above this but its a fact that if you have a group of poeple willing to pay anything for a legacy you will have conpeople setting up to take it

State Recognized and Federally Recongnized is Apples and Oranges you cant compare the two because there is a totally different set of rules that grants them the rights to call themselves a Indian Tribe
And even worse the State criteria varies from State to State
They exist on a different Plane
I have posted several times the vast list of tirbes and groups and clubs that are trying to set themselves up and the number increased in the middle 90's when Casinos have exploded in numbers
Go to the BIA website they have a link that lists all Federally recongnized Tribes and tribes requesting recognition
But I know of no list that has all FAKE tribes looking to profit from you unless they have been charged with something you cant accuse and most of the time they just change there name and move to another State and start business there
IF ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE
Then it is
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:31 PM   #59
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"BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS

The Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) responsibility is the administration and management of 55.7 million acres of land held in trust by the United States for American Indians, Indian tribes, and Alaska Natives. There are 561 federal recognized tribal governments in the United States. Developing forestlands, leasing assets on these lands, directing agricultural programs, protecting water and land rights, developing and maintaining infrastructure and economic development are all part of the agency's responsibility. In addition, the Bureau of Indian Affairs provides education services to approximately 48,000 Indian students.

The BIA website as well as the BIA mail servers have been made temporarily unavailable due to the Cobell Litigation. Please continue to check from time to time. We have no estimate on when authorization will be given to reactivate these sites."
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:40 PM   #60
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Josiah is right. That's why many of us say that you have too look into them. If bringing all of them out in the open was that easy--it would have been done along time ago. But it's not that easy because you have to make darn sure that the ones that you are talking about are actually "Fake". Ones like the one listed above are fake. Those stand out in the crowd and are pretty noticible. Some of the other's that other people are finding are not all that obvious. That's why many of us say to research them if you are interested in one of them. I'm not. But I have had too look into a couple of them for a person or two and that's how I found out about a couple of them. Again, I don't know them all and I'm not keeping track of them all. I don't live in every state and don't have the time to research every "tribe" out there and really don't wish to. I only look into the ones that cross my path and try to come to me making claims. Kind of like a "recruiter", that makes me suspecious and I look into them and who they are and where they came from. Some of them claim that they are state recognized, but when you go through the attorney generals office of that state, they are not and then when you look up to see when they formed, gee it was 1-4 years ago. Now, that makes me wonder and that's what I look into. Again, this is just an example of one or two that I have come accross, not a blanket statement about all state recognized "Tribes".
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