Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues Federal agent confiscates feathers at pow wow Federal agent confiscates feathers at pow wow

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-16-2006, 12:28 AM   #21
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,633.21
Savings: 1.00
Robert told me that the "Agent" did finally show him the badge after quite some time and arguement. Robert didn't loose any feathers from his person, just the ones from his brother in law. SokokiWolf if you would, it would be great for your inquiry assistance. Robert will be meeting with the Feds either today or soon.

I think this guy is just on some kind of a power trip. I told Robert and his brother in law that this guy should have given his credintials at the beginning.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:31 AM   #22
Junior Dancer
 
rasmel's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rasmel will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 110
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
pt 4

Free Exercise
The Free Exercise Clause of the United States Constitution, Article I, U.S. Const. amend. I, the Constitution of Virginia, Va. Const., art. I, 16, and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, 42 U.S.C. 2000bb(b)(2) (1994), prohibit state imposition of substantial burdens on the exercise of religion unless the state advances a compelling government interest which is furthered in the least restrictive manner.
In Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), the United States Supreme Court found that a religiously neutral law of general application that substantially burdens the free exercise of religion will survive free exercise challenge where the law rationally advances a legitimate state interest. However, where a law that substantially burdens the free exercise of religion is not "neutral," the government must prove that the law is necessary to advance a compelling government interest and does so in the least restrictive manner. Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398 (1963); Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205 (1972).
We find that Code 29.1-521(10) is not a religiously neutral law. In relevant part, Code 29.1-521(10) makes it a class three misdemeanor for any person to "possess . . . at any time or in any manner, any wild bird . . . or any part thereof, except as specifically permitted by law and only by the manner or means and within the numbers stated." (Emphasis added). Possession of owl feathers is permitted under Virginia law by taxidermists, academics, researchers, museums, and educational institutions. See Code 29.1-415 through 29.1-422. Further, federal law specifically allows for the possession and use of eagle feathers in the Native American religion. See C.F.R. 22.22 (1984). However, at the time of trial there was no specific exception for the possession of owl feathers for religious use under either Code 29.1-521(10) or under federal law.3 Consequently, while allowing for a variety of legitimate secular uses of owl feathers, Code 29.1-521(10) inexplicably denies an exception for bona fide religious uses and thereby draws specific subject matter distinctions in regulating the use of feathers.
__________________
One bright morning when my work is over I will fly away home.
rasmel is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:34 AM   #23
Junior Dancer
 
rasmel's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rasmel will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 110
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
pt 5

Where the state creates a mechanism for legitimate individualized exceptions but fails to include religious uses among these legitimate exceptions, discriminatory intent may be inferred. Ballweg v. Crowder Contracting Co., 247 Va. 205, 212-13, 440 S.E.2d 613, 618 (1993). Failure to make allowance for bona fide religious uses "tends to exhibit hostility, not neutrality, towards religion. . . ." Bowen v. Roy, 476 U.S. 693 (1986); Ballweg, 247 Va. at 213, 440 S.E.2d at 618. In Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah, the United States Supreme Court, found that "[t]he Free Exercise Clause `protect[s] religious observers against unequal treatment.'" 113 S. Ct. 2217, 2232 (1993). Accordingly, the Court held that because the city ordinance made exceptions for other religiously and secularly motivated animal killings, it could not be characterized as a law of neutral applicability. 113 S. Ct. at 2232. Like the ordinance in Hialeah, Code 29.1-521(10) makes exceptions for some uses while excluding bona fide religious uses and therefore is not a religiously neutral statute. Consequently, Code 29.1-521(10) must be examined under the "compelling interest" test as set forth in Sherbert. Finding that Code 29.1-521(10) is not a religiously neutral statute and therefore must pass the compelling interest test, we do not reach the issue of whether this case involves an instance in which the burdening of the free exercise of religion is coupled with the burdening of another constitutionally protected right.
Even if we were to find that Code 29.1-521(10) was a neutral law of general applicability, application of the compelling interest test would nonetheless be required under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, 42 U.S.C. 2000bb(b)(2) (1994) (hereinafter "RFRA"). Responding to Smith, Congress passed the RFRA in 1993. The RFRA was designed to "restore the compelling state interest test . . . and to guarantee its application in all cases where free exercise of religion is substantially burdened." Id. at (b)(1).
The RFRA provides:(a) IN GENERAL -- Government shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability, except as provided in subsection (b).
(b) EXCEPTION -- Government may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person --
(i) is in furtherance of a compelling government interest; and
(ii) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.
42 U.S.C. 2000bb-1 (1994). Accordingly, to prevail on a RFRA defense to a law of general applicability, a person must first establish that their exercise of religion has been substantially burdened. The "burdens of going forward with the evidence and of persuasion" then shift to the government to prove that application of the general law to the person furthers a compelling government purpose and is the least restrictive means of furthering that purpose. 42 U.S.C. 2000bb-2(3).
__________________
One bright morning when my work is over I will fly away home.
rasmel is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:36 AM   #24
Junior Dancer
 
rasmel's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rasmel will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 110
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
pt 6

Substantial Burden
Before applying the compelling interest test, it is necessary under both the Free Exercise Clause and the RFRA to address the threshold question of whether the Horens have proven that Code 29.1-521(10), as applied to the Horens, "substantially burdens" the free exercise of their religion.4 A substantial burden is imposed on the free exercise of religion where governmental action compels a party to affirm a belief they do not hold, discriminates on the basis of religious beliefs, inhibits the dissemination of particular religious beliefs, or compels a party to forgo their religious practices. Battles v. Anne Arundel County Board of Educ., 904 F. Supp. 471, 476-77
(D. Md. 1995); cf. Ballweg v. Crowder Contracting Co., 247 Va. 205, 209-11, 440 S.E.2d 613, 616-17 (1993). In Ballweg, the Virginia Supreme Court held that government action which resulted in a person having to choose between employment and practice of their religion constituted a substantial burden. 247 Va. at 213-14, 440 S.E.2d at 618.
Here, the Horens introduced uncontested evidence that their possession and use of owl feathers was pursuant to sincerely-held religious beliefs. See supra note 4. The Commonwealth did not contest at trial the evidence of the impact of Code 29.1-521(10) on the Horens' exercise of their religion. The Commonwealth argues for the first time on brief that the impact was not substantial. We read the trial court's decision as finding that the Horens held sincere beliefs, that the law had a substantial impact on the exercise of their religion, but that a compelling state interest justified the impact.
The Horens and their expert, Whitewolf, presented substantial evidence that: (1) the use of feathers is necessary to certain essentials of the Native American religion, such as prayer, cleansing, purification, consecration and healing practices; (2) the owl is revered among the Horens' tribal descendants and has special religious significance; and (3) owl feathers are of special religious significance to the Horens' tribe because they assist in carrying the Horens' prayers to the creator.
__________________
One bright morning when my work is over I will fly away home.
rasmel is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:37 AM   #25
Junior Dancer
 
rasmel's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rasmel will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 110
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
pt 7

Mrs. Horen further testified that:
I practice the Native American religion. . . . I am a member of the Otter Band of the tribe and a medicine woman. I had these feathers to practice my religion. Feathers are very significant in the Native American religion. I believe that, when you find a feather, it is a gift from the Creator to you. We honor the Creator by using these feathers when we pray. [Owl] feathers are particularly significant because they are soaring birds and, when we pray, the spirit of these birds carry our prayers higher to the Creator. Owl feathers are very strong medicine. The owl is a messenger and symbolizes death and wisdom. We use feathers to smudge with and for healing. Being a medicine woman, I need these things.
The Horens also introduced uncontested evidence of the impact of Code 29.1-521(10) on their practice of their Native American religion. The Horens described the various items seized from their home and the religious significance of each item. These items included the Horens' dream catcher, which Mrs. Horen testified is used to catch bad dreams and thoughts and "the feathers attached to it carry the good dreams and thoughts to the Creator." The Horens' owl wings, which Mrs. Horen testified are used to honor the Creator and smudge smoke over religious items and the sick, were also taken. Mr. Horens' prayer rattle was also seized. After describing the religious import of these items, Mrs. Horen offered the following testimony regarding the impact of the state's action:
I feel like my home has been raped. I can't very well be a medicine person for my tribe without my medicine. It's not the same when I pray anymore. I know in my heart that the Creator hears me, but I know my prayers aren't carried as high. It has affected my relationship with my family and the Creator and my tribe.
While the Horens' religious artifacts may not be
commonplace, they are, according to the evidence, akin to the Bible, crosses and Madonnas that are hallmarks of the Christian faith. Dispossessing a family of such items would likely be viewed as substantial interference with the exercise of their Christian faith. Here, like the situation in Ballweg, the state's action forced the Horens "to choose between fidelity to religious belief and [punishment] and thereby `bring[s] unlawful coercion to bear on the[ir] choice.'" 247 Va. at 213-14, 440 S.E.2d at 618 (quoting Fraze v. Illinois Dept. of Employment Sec., 489 U.S. 829, 832 (1989). Consequently, we find that Code 29.1-521(10) imposes a substantial burden on the Horens' free exercise of their Native American religion.
Compelling State Interest
Having found a substantial burden on the Horens' free exercise of their religion, we must next consider whether the Commonwealth met its burden of proving a compelling state interest, as required under both the Free Exercise Clause and the RFRA. As noted previously, the RFRA incorporates the compelling interest test as applied under the Free Exercise Clause and as articulated in Sherbert:
It is basic that no showing merely of a rational relationship to some colorable state interest [will] suffice; in this highly sensitive constitutional area, only the gravest abuses, endangering paramount interests, give occasion for permissible limitation.
374 U.S. at 406; 42 U.S.C. 2000bb(b)(1).
The Commonwealth's interests in the protection of wild birds generally and owls specifically are obviously important. However, the Commonwealth has not established that application of Code 29.1-521(10) to the Horens furthers any compelling state interest. Appellee asserted and the trial court found that the compelling state interest served by Code 29.1-521(10) is protection and preservation of wild birds. Here, the Horens use stray feathers or the feathers of dead owls in their preparation of religious items. The Commonwealth presented no evidence to suggest that the Commonwealth's interest in preserving and protecting wild birds is in any way advanced by prohibiting the Horens' bona fide religious uses of owl feathers.
Other jurisdictions considering this matter have generally required that the state must introduce evidence that the animal protected by state law is "endangered" or at least threatened. See United States v. Jim, 888 F. Supp. 1058 (D. Ore. 1995) (holding that criminal sanctions for killing eagles advanced a compelling state interest given proof that the eagles were threatened); United States v. Billie, 667 F. Supp. 1485 (S.D. Fla. 1987) (holding criminal sanctions for killing panthers advanced a compelling state interest given proof that the panthers were endangered); United States v. Abeyta, 632 F. Supp. 1301, 1307 (D.N.M. 1986). In Abeyta, the court found that prosecution under the Eagle Protection Act, 16 U.S.C. 668 et seq. (1940), of a Native American for killing a golden eagle violated his First Amendment rights. Id. The court concluded that "[t]he Golden Eagle is not an endangered species. The uncontradicted testimony at trial established that some eagles could be taken without harmful impact on the remaining population. The government's conservation interests therefore are not compelling and cannot warrant a constriction of Indian religious liberty." Id.
Abeyta presents a more precise tension between the religious exercise involved and the state's interest than is presented in this case. The Commonwealth produced no evidence establishing how preventing the Horens from collecting and possessing found feathers or feathers from dead owls serves the state's goal of preserving wild birds. Accordingly, based on the evidence presented, we find that the Commonwealth failed to meet its burden of proving a compelling state interest.
Least Restrictive Means
Assuming, arguendo, that we found that application of Code 29.1-521(10) to the Horens furthered a compelling interest of the Commonwealth, such application would nonetheless violate the Horens' Free Exercise and RFRA rights because it is not the least restrictive means of furthering the Commonwealth's interest. Here, the circuit court considered only whether the Class three misdemeanor penalties for possession, when viewed in the context of the state's Class one misdemeanor penalties for the killing of or trafficking in owls and owl parts, constituted the "least restrictive" means of furthering the state's interests. Such "relative penalty" analysis does not address whether this law is the least restrictive means of accomplishing the state's purpose. The variety of permits and exemptions made for secular purposes could easily have included permits for the use of legally obtained owl feathers or parts for religious purposes. Such an exception would broaden little, if at all, the scope of the present use exceptions. Further, as noted earlier, no evidence was introduced which suggested that allowing the Horens to obtain permits for their bona fide religious uses of owl feathers would to any degree impede the effectiveness of the Commonwealth's preservation and protection efforts.
Having found that Code 29.1-521(10) is not a religiously neutral statute, that it substantially burdens the free exercise of the Horens' religion, and that application of it to the Horens does not further a compelling state interest nor does so in the least restrictive manner, we reverse the Horens' convictions. Further, in light of our holding in this matter, we need not reach the issues of: (1) whether the trial court erred in refusing to instruct the jury on the statutory phrase "except as specifically permitted by law" as an element of the offense; (2) whether the court erred in failing to adopt a limiting construction of Code 29.1-521(10) or to instruct the jury on scienter or knowledge as a necessary element for conviction under statutes imposing affirmative obligations or burdening fundamental rights; or (3) whether the Horens' equal protection and free speech rights were violated.
Reversed and dismissed
__________________
One bright morning when my work is over I will fly away home.
rasmel is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:47 AM   #26
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,633.21
Savings: 1.00
Rasmel: now that's a mouth full, Thanks.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 08:48 AM   #27
Fat Singer
 
billyjoejimbob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: white guy land
Posts: 1,521
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
If you have seen anyone get busted, did they LOOK native or not. Do feds bother obviously Full Blooded looking native people or just the people who arent stone faced with high cheekbones and brown skin?

Rasmel-being that you are from the east coast and have dreads and dark skin, your lucky they didnt try to say you were dealing pot!!! The fact that you are a musician would have been the nail in the coffin because we know that ALL musicians are druggies!!!

Whats worse than a Native, Musician with dark skin and dreads who is dancing with illegal feathers?

You gotta love it. To quote my favorite TV charachter, Ken Titus, "I might as well have been a black guy driving a powdered donut!"
billyjoejimbob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 09:06 AM   #28
Beadworker
 
sokoki_wolf's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
sokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,410
Credits: 2,106.54
Savings: 0.00
Rasmel thats an interesting case...do you know anything about the SE confederacy they were from? and any clue who the expert witness"whitewolf" was? sounds like george whitewolf branham,he's from that area and one of those who likes to play medicine man and ndn...
__________________

TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

(and no,this isnt zeek)
sokoki_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 09:13 AM   #29
Cheyenne
 
swift horse running's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
swift horse running will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I'm with you

Go Badmaninc
I'm with you ...times have gotten crazy.
I do hope you get your feathers back and I will pray for you
Now I am not fullblood but my grandfather was and I have all his feathers since he passed away. Some have been passed 5 generations and I hardly ever even show them to anyone. However if the feds want them they better come prepared for a fight ecause I am not giving them up.
swift horse running is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 09:40 AM   #30
Kili!
 
Wojapi4Me's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Wojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Tha Rez
Posts: 1,573
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokoki_wolf
Rasmel thats an interesting case...do you know anything about the SE confederacy they were from? and any clue who the expert witness"whitewolf" was? sounds like george whitewolf branham,he's from that area and one of those who likes to play medicine man and ndn...
Wow...first off the SE Cherokee Confederacy is a fake Cherokee group which operates in several states. I came across these guys up in Pennsylvania several years ago, and all I can say is "Wow"...

Their expert witness ...so, now he's a Sioux huh? How is it that a Sioux is the spiritual advisor for the Monacan Tribe?

I would have rather seen the waters tested with real people.
__________________
I think everyone on this rez is addicted to Harry Potter...lol...
Wojapi4Me is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 09:42 AM   #31
Beadworker
 
sokoki_wolf's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
sokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,410
Credits: 2,106.54
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
Wow...first off the SE Cherokee Confederacy is a fake Cherokee group which operates in several states. I came across these guys up in Pennsylvania several years ago, and all I can say is "Wow"...

Their expert witness ...so, now he's a Sioux huh? How is it that a Sioux is the spiritual advisor for the Monacan Tribe?

I would have rather seen the waters tested with real people.
thought thats who they were ty SD and where did it say he was sioux? thats one that GWWB uses too lol
__________________

TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

(and no,this isnt zeek)
sokoki_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 11:32 AM   #32
Fat Singer
 
billyjoejimbob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: white guy land
Posts: 1,521
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
George WW was big on the NJ powwow scene when I still went to them. Him and Barry Richardson.
billyjoejimbob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 11:35 AM   #33
Beadworker
 
sokoki_wolf's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
sokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,410
Credits: 2,106.54
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
George WW was big on the NJ powwow scene when I still went to them. Him and Barry Richardson.
yup they sure were...i did alot of research on george and exposed him in a newspaper...hes a real gem lol now hes running a scam in VA claiming to be a chief of the monican or something like that...guess hes got his brother involved now but at least VA doesnt recognize them as a tribe...
__________________

TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

(and no,this isnt zeek)
sokoki_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:07 PM   #34
Kili!
 
Wojapi4Me's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Wojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond reputeWojapi4Me has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Tha Rez
Posts: 1,573
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokoki_wolf
yup they sure were...i did alot of research on george and exposed him in a newspaper...hes a real gem lol now hes running a scam in VA claiming to be a chief of the monican or something like that...guess hes got his brother involved now but at least VA doesnt recognize them as a tribe...
If I'm not mistaken, the state of Virginia does recognize the Monacans as a tribe, and aren't they also liisted on that Congressional bill to federally recognize all the tribes in the state?

Oh, and the court papers that Rasmel posted had George saying he was Lakota Sioux and the spiritual advisor for the Monacans.
__________________
I think everyone on this rez is addicted to Harry Potter...lol...
Wojapi4Me is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 12:14 PM   #35
Beadworker
 
sokoki_wolf's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
sokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond reputesokoki_wolf has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,410
Credits: 2,106.54
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
If I'm not mistaken, the state of Virginia does recognize the Monacans as a tribe, and aren't they also liisted on that Congressional bill to federally recognize all the tribes in the state?

Oh, and the court papers that Rasmel posted had George saying he was Lakota Sioux and the spiritual advisor for the Monacans.
they may well be SD...i do know however that George is NOT lakota and has changed his tribal affiliations numerous times...interesting tho if hes lakota and his brother is monacan....hmmmm george used to claim he was adopted into frank fools crows family but they have never heard of him...i find it interesting too that a court doesnt check the vailidty of the witnesses...if george testified under oath that means he commited perjury...
__________________

TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

(and no,this isnt zeek)
sokoki_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 03:16 PM   #36
Honey Connoissuer
 
Blackbear's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Blackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Blackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 9,817
Credits: 546.23
Savings: 1.00
They are full of it. Not only is stating that iroquois use owl feathers to send their prayers to the creator false but if she's monacan then what do what the iroquois have to do with them? Providing an excuse as to why owl is all she is tryign to do and she could'nt even do that. And what is this Native American Religion????
__________________
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.
Blackbear is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 03:49 PM   #37
Junior Dancer
 
rasmel's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rasmel will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 110
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Hay Billyjoejimbob,the only charge they can get me with is, to much tobacco and much coffee.
The only pot I got is the one I use to cook buffalo stew...lmao.
For the record my feathers are turkey with a good paint job.
As for playing music, I've play'd (the past 5yrs)w/the band that recorded "GET UP STAND UP"(for your rights).
thats a good creed to live by.
Sokoki Wolf,I found this on the S.E.C,Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy of Pennsylvania
A substantial number of Native Americans residing in Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland and the District of Columbia are members of the Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy of Pennsylvania.In addition to the Cherokee Nations, other tribal groups represented by the Confederacy include: the Navajo, Cree, Seminole, Choctaw, and Creek. The organization hosts annual festivals, conducts lectures and workshops and offers classes on Cherokee language, traditions, drumming, bead work, finger weaving and Native American history and culture. For more information, contact the Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy of Pennsylvania at (215) 549-4191.
Maybe someone will give them a call..........................
I don't know White Wolf
On Monacons I've found....
The Monacan Indian Nation of Virginia is a small tribe, located in the Amherst County area near Lynchburg and recognized as a tribe by the State of Virginia. (nice pow wow grounds)
The tribe became a state-registered corporation in 1988, and in 1989, it was recognized by the Virginia General Assembly as one of the eight indigenous tribes of the state.
VIRGINIA (state) recognized
1.Chickahominy Indian Tribe, state recognized
2.E. Chickahominy Indian Tribe, state recognized
3.Monacan Indian Tribe, state recognized
4.Nansemond Indian Tribal Association, state recognized
5.Pamunkey Nation, state recognized
6.Upper Mataponi Tribe, state recognized, petitioned 11/29/79
7.United Rappahannock Tribe, state recognized; petitioned 11/16/79
8.?????????????????????/
http://www.senate.gov/~scia/2002hrgs...2hrg/Moran.PDF (no long post this time)

Federally Recognized Native American Tribes/ February 16, 1995 (60 FR 9250) east coast,
1.Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians of North Carolina
2.Catawba Tribe of South Carolina
3.Cayuga Nation of New York
4.Aroostook Band of Micmac Indians of Maine
5.Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida
6.Tonawanda Band of Seneca Indians of New York
7.Tuscarora Nation of New York
8.Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head (Aquinnah) of Massachusetts
Now, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree............so my question is, if you are ndn, not on the Fed Recognized Native American Tribes, even though you are on the state recognized list, can the feds (not the state)come in and take your feathers. And how does the freedom of religion act come into play?????????(The American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978 [http://www.cr.nps.gov/local-law/FHPL...nRelFreAct.pdf ]and (The Free Exercise Clause of the 1968 Indian Civil Rights Act)
__________________
One bright morning when my work is over I will fly away home.
rasmel is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 04:10 PM   #38
Fat Singer
 
billyjoejimbob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: white guy land
Posts: 1,521
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Bob Marley?!? A rasta ta boot! Thats ANOTHER reason authorities will hassle you! ;)

George was doing some collections at NJ powwows to SAVE the Monacan holy lands in PA or something. Wonder where THAT money went?

Does the state benefit in any way when a tribe is recognized? They must because there are a ton of fake tribe out there. Someone must be getting kickbacks.

I want my own tribe because my brother in law is 1/4 santee and my neices and nephews are 1/8. We can form the "Eastern Band of Federated Santee Dakota Sioux Tribe of NJ and DE". Memberships $10.
billyjoejimbob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 04:29 PM   #39
Junior Dancer
 
rasmel's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rasmel will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: virginia
Posts: 110
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
"I want my own tribe because my brother in law is 1/4 santee and my neices and nephews are 1/8. We can form the "Eastern Band of Federated Santee Dakota Sioux Tribe of NJ and DE". Memberships $10. "

hay billyjoejimbob, you givin out photo ID cards for the 10 bucks, so i can show it to the bird man, should the authorities will hassle me????????
__________________
One bright morning when my work is over I will fly away home.
rasmel is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-16-2006, 07:24 PM   #40
Fat Singer
 
billyjoejimbob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: white guy land
Posts: 1,521
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Oh a photo? That will be $3 more. If you want it in english though, add another $3000.

There is always a catch.
billyjoejimbob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pow Wow PhotoContest Paul G News and Announcements 15 05-24-2003 12:14 PM
March 15, 2003 PowWows.com Newsletter Paul G News and Announcements 0 03-15-2003 01:18 PM
Pow Wow Shop Paul G News and Announcements 6 01-27-2003 09:18 AM
What Is Your All Time Favorite Pow Wow That You Have Been Too yellowhawk33 Archives 17 12-24-2002 05:05 AM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery