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Old 03-17-2006, 08:39 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmel
..........so my question is, if you are ndn, not on the Fed Recognized Native American Tribes, even though you are on the state recognized list, can the feds (not the state)come in and take your feathers.
I'm thinkin' yes...cuz I think you have to be a member of Federally recognized tribe to even apply for and get an eagle (or other protected bird) from the fed. repository. Strickly speaking, anyone (even if they ARE enrolled in a FR tribe), could have their feathers seized if he/she does NOT have this paper work to prove how the feathers were obtained. Of course, that's strickly following the Migratory Bird Act and Bald Eagle Protection Act...it's up to a lawyer to argue the Religious Freedom Acts...
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:41 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjoejimbob
Oh a photo? That will be $3 more. If you want it in english though, add another $3000.

There is always a catch.
dang...$3013 for an ID card...now THAT'S some tribal revenue! LOL
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walela49
I'm thinkin' yes...cuz I think you have to be a member of Federally recognized tribe to even apply for and get an eagle (or other protected bird) from the fed. repository. Strickly speaking, anyone (even if they ARE enrolled in a FR tribe), could have their feathers seized if he/she does NOT have this paper work to prove how the feathers were obtained. Of course, that's strickly following the Migratory Bird Act and Bald Eagle Protection Act...it's up to a lawyer to argue the Religious Freedom Acts...
yes you do have to be a member of a fed recognized tribe etc etc...what concerns me about applying freedom of religon is that if non ndn people or ones who cannot prove they are ndn use this defense it is going to weaken legit cases that come b4 the courts...it just happened in a case involving the use of peyote in ceremony....and the ramifications could be very bad for NAC people
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Old 03-17-2006, 09:35 AM   #44
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Swolf...I was wonderin' the same thing myself...back in that long 7 pt post about the court case where the conviction was reversed (which was very interesting reading btw)...no mention was made of the defendants being "enrolled members" of a FR tribe...I only remember reading that they claimed some ancestry...maybe I'll have to go back and reread all that..yuk LOL...but it does beg the question can just anybody claim religious freedom as an excuse to break (or bend) the law??
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Old 03-17-2006, 05:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANCINGEAGLE
I mc'd a p/w in South Carolina one year, when, we got word that a Fed was confiscating a venders items. This vender is Lumbee and very well known throughout the p/w circuit.

Well, the vender had some items that were made out of bear paw. He said that this guy kept coming around his booth looking at his jewelry and stuff. Finally, the guy came back to his booth and asked him how much was is bear paw items. He told him that it was not for sale, but, if he bought a piece of jewlry he could give him an item of his choice. The guy bought some jewelry and picked out a item that he liked. This vender kept his word and gifted him with the item.

Later on that night, the guy came back and told him that he was a fed. He told him that he was confiscating ALL of his items because he was selling bear parts. When the vender tried to defend his self, the fed just started taking everything. You never know when or where they will show up.
If that fed was found out in the woods with a hole in the head, I wonder if there'd be any WITNESSES???
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Old 03-17-2006, 05:59 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakalapi
If that fed was found out in the woods with a hole in the head, I wonder if there'd be any WITNESSES???
lol if an ndn went out with him they wouldnt ever find him
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:47 AM   #47
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Religious Freedon defenses do not save your butt when prosecuted for feathers. It has been tried many times and it has worked only once that I know of, out of New Mexico went to 10th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Feather permits only cover Golden and Bald Eagle Feathers, not hawk or owl (for those tribes who use them).

Technically, the permits are only good for those feathers listed on the permit.

There is no permit for hawk and other non-eagle feathers.

The Bald and Gloden Eagle Protection Act arguably does not prohibit possession of feathers that were possessed before enactment of the act.

You must be a member of a Federally Recognized Tribe to get a permit.

You can't have the feathers unless you have the permit, NDN or not.
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:52 AM   #48
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eagle feather confiscated

if you remember the application you filled out to get the permit it does say that it Is leagle to give away feathers i am not sure if the recipiant must then apply for a permit or not
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:01 AM   #49
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How much of our traditional religion and customs have been influenced by Christianity

Christians have infiltrated our culture and personally I don't like it. when kitchi Manitou (the creator) put us all here he gave us all different gifts, ours is traditional ceremonies ,love and respect for all around us and veneration for nimama aki (mother earth). the White man was given other gifts like hairy faces and the ability to sunburn easily. I am going to loose my mind if I hear Jesus name mentioned in one more invocation or mede ceremony, your thoughts ??

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Old 03-27-2006, 11:05 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip boy Grass Dance
Christians have infiltrated our culture and personally I don't like it. when kitchi Manitou (the creator) put us all here he gave us all different gifts, ours is traditional ceremonies ,love and respect for all around us and veneration for nimama aki (mother earth). the White man was given other gifts like hairy faces and the ability to sunburn easily. I am going to loose my mind if I hear Jesus name mentioned in one more invocation or mede ceremony, your thoughts ??
doesnt sound very traditional to me,when other religons are brought into ceremony....
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:48 AM   #51
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from a thread in pws.com

Robert has met with the feds along with his lawyer and found out that the Federal Government will not allow anyone, state recognized tribes or federally recognized tribes to have eagle feathers UNLESS they are issued to the person BY the Federal Government. The US Bureau of Indian Affairs has set themselves up as God. Feathers are earned and given to us by the Creator or by elders, or others within our people. The US Government has now taken away our religious freedom, given to us by the Native American Religious Freedom Act of 1978.




okay question here's this feather bust that happened in Texas, it is due because he is from a state reconized tribe and not federal reconized tribe....

does this mean only federal reconized tribes are the only ones to posses feathers???

or does this mean they are downsizing yet another part of culture?????

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Old 03-27-2006, 12:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip boy Grass Dance
if you remember the application you filled out to get the permit it does say that it Is leagle to give away feathers i am not sure if the recipiant must then apply for a permit or not
I just happen to have a permit in my desk. It says:

"Eagle parts obtained under this permit are not transferable with the exception that they may be handed down from generation to generation from one Indian to another for religious ceremonial purposes"

I think technically, you would have to apply for a permit, but then again the Feds probably would not issue a permit for those inherited feathers as they were not issued by them to you. Thus practically speaking, this is an unworkable situation, the Feds will complain either way.
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Old 03-27-2006, 12:36 PM   #53
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Kiowakat,

"does this mean only federal reconized tribes are the only ones to posses feathers???"

Yes, the law allows an exception only for those members of federally recognized tribes. I said "members." One could be 100% indian blood and not be a member of a federally recognized tribe and would then not be allowed to have feathers.
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Old 03-27-2006, 03:49 PM   #54
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YOu can give your feathers you recieve and have a permit for to another native american that is recognized but they must possess a permit of their own and what you have to do is contact your fish and wildlife agency to let them know that you are a recognized native recieving from (and probably a good idea to send them a copy of the other's permit for those feathers) another recognized individual with a permit and they CAN give you a permit for those feathers. If you are not federally recognized, you are screwed. And you can possess family handed down feathers, pre law or whatever, but you need to have a permit. The permit does not necessarily have to list those handed down feathers for them to be legally in your possession. The old applications for feathers did include other bird species under non-eagle bird parts and they could be listed on your permit, but they no longer distribute feathers or write permits for bird feathers other than eagle now.
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Old 03-27-2006, 05:15 PM   #55
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I wonder what would be said if the "feds" demanded permits for bibles, and roserys, and such? How about bibles handed down through the generations?
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Old 03-27-2006, 05:33 PM   #56
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Why do people keep makiing that comparison.. the bible itself or at least the king james version is suspect of not being complete and changed to suit the needs of the king that commissioned it's interpretation. The new easy to read version even admits it's done some of that. It's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. adn they dont' even have the same protocals for how they are treated.
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:31 AM   #57
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Back in 1990 when I got my last bird, my paper work said that I could pass my feathers and give them to other NDNs. I have gifted others, both living and passed. At that time it didn't say anything about being a Fed. Rec. NDN or not. A friend of mine has recently received a bird and it now says no one can be gifted a feather unless they are Fed. Rec. whether that person has a permit for feathers or not.

At the time I received my bird the definition of NDN was a person of Fed. Rec. Tribe or village, a person with CDIB recognition, State Rec. Tribes, and those that are Rec. as NDN in their Community. This is not an exact quote. Many people are rec. as NDN in their community and do not belong to a Fed. Rec. Tribe.

I believe that God has gifted me with a Bird and I should be able to gift another with my good fortune as I see fit. Should someone be close enough to me that I feel strong enough to give them a feather the Feds shouldn't care. They just don't understand the Heart.
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:39 AM   #58
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So it sounds like we have a good case for Grandfather Clause.
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Old 04-02-2006, 05:55 PM   #59
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Feather Surrender Ceremony

Feather Surrender Ceremony/photos
http://sontree.org/fs/ceremony.htmFeather Surrender Ceremony

Article I
Feather Surrender Ceremony
http://sontree.org/fs/AI.htm

Feather Surrender Ceremony
Article II
http://sontree.org/fs/AII.htm
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Old 04-03-2006, 09:31 AM   #60
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I just recently prayed an ememrgency prayer to Lord Jesus to pleease command that federal agent only once to immediately return those feathers that he STOLE.
I don't care about what that agent did,confiscating a native american's rightfully owned items IS DOWNRIGHT STEALING!
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