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Old 12-31-2011, 11:13 PM   #201
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As for the --And that research group he often speaks about? It's a group over on yahoo.com But the real pearl is the CV on his tough guy persona... jail time, fighting, over 60 fights... priceless--


Thats one of many groups, that group also has a very large number of researchers, if you looked you would have seen that was from a discussion of if there was a genetics type link between descendants of Eastern native american tribes etc and fighting and jail time.

The main focus I believe was on the Lumbee history and Newman's ridge history. However you did not look into what that discussion was now did you or did you not wish to post about what that discussion was lol


As for jail time maybe you should have actually looked into that also.

The tradition of public art in America goes back thousands of years in the Native American communities. However many people have did away with that tradition. But it is still continued to this day. There is many reasons behind the mural movement, one is to just keep a time honored tradtion alive, another is to put beauty to areas that is all run down and destroyed. There is also the fact that many people from run down areas never get a chance to get to art musuems or get to be a part of the more finer things in life, many of the mural artists attempt to bring that to these poorer communties for that purpose, it in idea will help get the poorer communties more interested in art and actually want to do something better with their life than live on the streets or becoming drug dealers etc. The issue with this movement was public art permits. Which many cities now require a public art permit no matter if you have permission from a property owner or not. In Georgia the ACLU made a big issue about property owners giving permission to have murals placed on their property only for the city to fine them 500 dollars a week till the mural is removed. I believe by the help of the ACLU the law has been changed. These artists in many cases was finding walls that was littered with gang graffiti and repainting the entire wall in a effort to cut down on gang recruitment in the poorer cities. the mural artists believe that the less gang recruiting in a area then the better chances the youth will have at moving toward something that will better their life and their community. It has also been proven that walls with a mural is less likely to be marked with gang graffiti. Generally a large scale mural would cost a person 2,000 - 20,000 dollars to have commissioned, but the mural movement people do them free of charge.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:23 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Scabbraidz View Post
Oh buh, I already know that vast majority of Wikipedia articles are made by various people or contributors, but the Wikipedia article for that person(Joseph Newman) just sounded funky. Dropping names left and right and going into weird extravagant detail... Like they were/are trying to prove something about themselves or the contributor(s) were/are trying to prove something about Joseph Newman. The article just sounded really entitled or pompous. Why are you defending Joseph Newman? Unless you are Joseph Newman? If so, then please tell me you didn't write your own Wikipedia article about yourself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_Kelly

You mean something like that.

Or like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_3000

or this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenan_Thompson


Looks about the same to me.

Maybe andre3000, Kenan Thompson, and Machine gun kelly wrote those themself also.

Point made, Case closed.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:42 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_Kelly

You mean something like that.

Or like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_3000

or this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenan_Thompson


Looks about the same to me.

Maybe andre3000, Kenan Thompson, and Machine gun kelly wrote those themself also.

Point made, Case closed.
LOL no, thats not what I'm talking about! Like for instance: Why mention who his math teacher was? Why even mention his math teacher? An the Adult Life part is just.. In other words: What makes him different than any other person or descendant of an North American Indigenous tribe/people? Why is Joseph Newman SO important that he needed a Wikipedia article wrote about him? Is it because OMG HE GREW UP WITH KENAN, ANDRE 2000 AND LIVED ON THE SAME STREET AS THAT ONE KID FROM KRIS-KROSS AND SOME ATL BASEBALLER!! Other than those people crossing through his life; What makes him so important?
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:57 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Scabbraidz View Post
LOL no, thats not what I'm talking about! Like for instance: Why mention who his math teacher was? Why even mention his math teacher? An the Adult Life part is just.. In other words: What makes him different than any other person or descendant of an North American Indigenous tribe/people? Why is Joseph Newman SO important that he needed a Wikipedia article wrote about him? Is it because OMG HE GREW UP WITH KENAN, ANDRE 2000 AND LIVED ON THE SAME STREET AS THAT ONE KID FROM KRIS-KROSS AND SOME ATL BASEBALLER!! Other than those people crossing through his life; What makes him so important?
Levi Walker is not a Baseballer, Levi Walker was a REAL native american the Atlanta braves used as a mascot for a time. Levi Walker is also Federal and is a elder.

For andre, Chris Smith, totem2, Ward Jenkins, and Kandi buress they all played a part in the rise of Atlanta's underground arts movement, the same as who the article is about. They also all started out at the civic yard.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:59 PM   #205
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ESCN, being Cheyenne, I was going to stay out of this "discussion", but.......

You have been asked a couple of times "who claims you"? You answer with a boatload of buffalo chips and never directly answer the question. How about a direct answer or aren't you capable of that.

You are here, trying to bend everyone to your point of view and if you haven't gotten the point by now-it ain't working. You have been rude to people who try and reply to the buffalo chips you are spreading about. I learned at a young age to tolerate the different points of view that others have. A discussion is one thing, but you insist on foisting your opinions down people's throats and it's very rude. As for wiki articles about people-anybody can edit/write those things, so quoting those as a source is a little risky. You need to learn some manners and to have some respect for people, even when they think differently than you do.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:04 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Levi Walker is not a Baseballer, Levi Walker was a REAL native american the Atlanta braves used as a mascot for a time. Levi Walker is also Federal and is a elder.

For andre, Chris Smith, totem2, Ward Jenkins, and Kandi buress they all played a part in the rise of Atlanta's underground arts movement, the same as who the article is about. They also all started out at the civic yard.
Whoops looks like I misread that part about Levi Walker. But I still don't see whats so special about Joseph Newman. Are you Joseph Newman? Also what tribe(s) are you? Saponi? Cherokee?

P.S. "Point made, case closed!", must be your favorite motto/phrase, eh?

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Old 01-01-2012, 01:21 AM   #207
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You really should not get into stuff you did not research more lol

You posted one thread. To that lol. them are all from the same thread. If you researched more you would have seen a large chunk of People on Saponi town decided to refuse posting there anymore as long as Don Collins was allowed to stay on there.

Saponi Town was supposed to had been for saponi descendants and family to pass back and forth information amongst themself. Don collins openly admited he is not a saponi, he "attempted" to prove the people on that message board was his family by taking a DNA test, that test proved he was NOT related to anyone on that message board. Then he got all mad because the DNA results was posted on the DNA site as public information. So his DNA attempt to prove himself to be something he was not went against him.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

There is the DNA results which is public. Don collins aka Dcollins' DNA is "Valentine collins". Listed right above is Bertie county's Bunch family. If you look you shall see his DNA results matched perfect on every marker with the Bunch family. His DNA did NOT match to ANY of the Collins family or anyone else connected to the Saponi families.

I guess you did not research it enough to have actually looked at that part huh? lol


As far as newman's ridge's Native americans go, If you are not from Vardy Collins or Shepard Gibson then you do not fall in the Native American line.

So in all, Don Collins proved his own self to not come from the Saponi families, he also stated many times he was not from the Saponi people. So why should he be on a message board thats for Saponi indian descendants? Next time research a little more.


Now for the Saponi tow site owner.

--I appreciate all the research you've done and listed. I don't know if you're aware of our site, www.saponitown.com. We've been researching the same issues for the past 12 years. We have 2,000 members, mainly un-enrolled Saponi descendants like yourself, who've contributed about 20,000 posts. Oxford University is linking to our site in their "Best of the Web" directory. I've heard most of the original documents you mentioned before, but we don't have them in one concise location.

I've set up a member account for you.

I'd love to see your collection of original source passages linked permanently off the first page.

Linda Carter
http://saponitown.com--


I guess you did not know about that either huh? Thats a personal invite from the Saponi Town's owner to me.


As for Cherosage, She is a good friend of mine as well.
ECSN, yeah whatever... you're a flake - not sure if you're a corn or all bran... but nevertheless you are a flake...

I feel sorry for you that you have to live through dead ancestors to find your self worth.

I hope there are two Cherosages... because the straight dancers are going to find having a female amongst them pretty strange... The Cherosage we know and love dearly is umm.. male.

Scabbraidz, I'd like some of that chocolate cake...if you don't mind sharing.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:24 AM   #208
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ESCN, being Cheyenne, I was going to stay out of this "discussion", but.......

You have been asked a couple of times "who claims you"? You answer with a boatload of buffalo chips and never directly answer the question. How about a direct answer or aren't you capable of that.

You are here, trying to bend everyone to your point of view and if you haven't gotten the point by now-it ain't working. You have been rude to people who try and reply to the buffalo chips you are spreading about. I learned at a young age to tolerate the different points of view that others have. A discussion is one thing, but you insist on foisting your opinions down people's throats and it's very rude. As for wiki articles about people-anybody can edit/write those things, so quoting those as a source is a little risky. You need to learn some manners and to have some respect for people, even when they think differently than you do.


Buffalo chips, basically your saying what I say is S**t. Ok, that would basically be saying Nothing I'm saying is fact. So I challenge you to show where anything I stated was not the truth.

Until you can do that then do not refer to it as s**t.

I've done stated where I descend from, I've proved documentation and photos as well. I am not going to keep stating what tribes I descend from over and over. Especially seeing as the people who say that don't give their information other than, I'm from so and so tribe.

I on the other hand have already stated where I descend from and gave documentation. So I have nothing else further to give you on that. simple as that. As for the wikipedia articles I quoted from, if you actually looked at them you shall see the parts I quoted from is sourced at the bottom of those wikipedia pages.

--You need to learn some manners and to have some respect for people, --

I'm not sure if you actually read what I write or not, but my stuff is in defense to rude people who have no manners. I'm not the one going around trying to disprove ANYONE's native blood, I fight to prove people's native blood. I Do not use profanities or call people idiots for their ideas. I do not use racial terms on people. I sure do not attack people simply because they say "I'm native american". I do not travel to states my people do not come from to say who is or is not indian. I am not going to states I do not belong to SELL crafts. I defiently am not going to other states I do not belong and attacking those state's native elders. Even on here you will not see once where I went to someone else's topic to attack them. I do not scroll thru posts looking to attack people. The most you'll find me doing is informing a person they may be claiming the wrong tribe and then I'll show them what their ancestors claimed and show historical records informing them of why I'm saying they are claiming the wrong tribal destination. I also sure am not going around starting a group that is solely out to disprove anyone's native heritage. I do the opposite, I set out to help people prove their native heritage.

Now I see your in southern Georgia, Cheyenne's are not from georgia or related to any of the Georgia native heritage or culture. Now check this out, the tribes in southern Georgia have stated if I wanted to I could enroll in them anytime I wish to. I could become state recognized in Georgia any time I want. If I wanted to I could get enrolled in North Carolina tribes, Virginia tribes, and Ohio tribes. Because of my ancestry I could be state recognized in 3 states in the south east (Ohio as far as I know have no state recognigtion). That alone shows how connected I am to the south east native heritage and culture. Several people from my family tree is documented as being in georgia since the 1700's. My family has also been documented living with the creek indians in villa rica and coweta county Georgia since the 1820's thru documentation. My family is also recorded as even being at the historical Creek indian's 3 day festivals every autumn in Villa Rica, Ga even before removal. My family has been "documented" by name as indians of the south east as far back as the early 1600's.

It is quite funny how your in Georgia, when the native communties in Georgia is among the ones that are being attacked and being talked rudely to and shown disrespect. And here I am speaking up for them and defending them. Yet here you are on here defending the people who is attacking the Georgia native american communities. Maybe you are unaware there is no Federal recognigtion for Georgia tribes.

Point made, Case closed.

Last edited by ECSN; 01-01-2012 at 02:36 AM..
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:35 AM   #209
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LOL it's from those CNO's aka Corporate indians aka message board indians lol They hate when you expose them LOL They actually think in their head that if they have more posts than another it makes them a "indian elder" and they think sending a Redbead means they are more indian than the other person, sorry but redbeads does not take away a person's native blood lol

Maybe they are jealous that they have a 1 great grandmother on a federal roll and thats all they can push for their native blood while all four of my grandparents are proven native American and the Supreme court has numerous times ruled in favor of my families' indian blood.

I did notice Ohio mentioned in this discussion, it may surprise you that many people in the Ohio Native American communities won their Surpreme court cases on the indian blood issue, yet these wanna be hunters like the CNO wish to ignore the Supreme court rulings and they wish to never tell you about those supreme court rulings. Supreme courts being Federal actually makes them federally recognized indians. So call them fake all you want, but the Supreme court ruling proves different.

I'm only on the first page so far. But what group in OH won a Federal case. You are full of it, there's not one Federally recognized tribe in the State of OH. Even the UKB, run by Jerry Pope who's ancestor Reva Pope was a white man, tried to go before the State in the last two years and they wouldn't even hear his case 'cause they're sick of his lies and con jobs within the state. He has no one in legislature in the state of OH who believes him at all. He's a joke and his lies and fake "Federal Land" that is privately owned, but he tries to pass it off and his fake "Enrollement Cards" with blanket permit numbers on it and that's very illegal, but no one who knows has ever called him on it 'cause he tries to hide his lies from real Native people in that State. And there are real Natives, but they are enrolled through federal tribes from other states. There's NOT ONE in the state of OH!!!!

Now, on to more reading, I'm sure I will have a lot more to add to this before I get to page 11.LOL


Hey Pighead, I really like you intelligent answer, but I couldn't give you a greeny just yet. But I will soon!!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:37 AM   #210
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:39 AM   #211
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ECSN, yeah whatever... you're a flake - not sure if you're a corn or all bran... but nevertheless you are a flake...

I feel sorry for you that you have to live through dead ancestors to find your self worth.

I hope there are two Cherosages... because the straight dancers are going to find having a female amongst them pretty strange... The Cherosage we know and love dearly is umm.. male.

Scabbraidz, I'd like some of that chocolate cake...if you don't mind sharing.

You feel sorry for me because I live thru my ancestors. That speaks volumes about yourself. I also would never say I feel sorry for you, I also would never call you a flake either. So again speaks volumes about yourself.

Maybe honoring ancestors is not something you was taught, maybe taking pride in our ancestors is not something you was taught. To even say something like that about ancestors epsecially for it to be refering to native ancestors defiently speaks volumes about your upbringing. Next time your around the people who has been trying to bring the Haida tattoo traditions back further, remember to repeat what you said. Just really think about what you said lol
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:47 AM   #212
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"Living through dead ancestors" is a whole lot different than "honoring your ancestors". Think about it.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:22 AM   #213
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I'm only on the first page so far. But what group in OH won a Federal case. You are full of it, there's not one Federally recognized tribe in the State of OH. Even the UKB, run by Jerry Pope who's ancestor Reva Pope was a white man, tried to go before the State in the last two years and they wouldn't even hear his case 'cause they're sick of his lies and con jobs within the state. He has no one in legislature in the state of OH who believes him at all. He's a joke and his lies and fake "Federal Land" that is privately owned, but he tries to pass it off and his fake "Enrollement Cards" with blanket permit numbers on it and that's very illegal, but no one who knows has ever called him on it 'cause he tries to hide his lies from real Native people in that State. And there are real Natives, but they are enrolled through federal tribes from other states. There's NOT ONE in the state of OH!!!!

Now, on to more reading, I'm sure I will have a lot more to add to this before I get to page 11.LOL


Hey Pighead, I really like you intelligent answer, but I couldn't give you a greeny just yet. But I will soon!!!!
Parker Jeffries vs John Akeny. Ohio supreme court.
This case was against the Zenia township for refusing him to vote.
This court case stated Parker Jeffries was of the "indian race".

Just one of the many sources for this is "Reports of cases argued and determined in the Supreme Court of Ohio, Volume 11 By Ohio. Supreme Court, Ohio. Supreme"


In this Supreme court case it was stated clearly that there was indian descendants living in Ohio some as far back since it's beginings and one was even working in the Ohio court house as the clerk, while 2 others was members of the Ohio bar.

So yes, people in Ohio to this day's family have been recognized by the Supreme court as being indians. However does these people have a Federal Recognigtion card? No they do not. Yet to have someone who does have a Federal card to move to Ohio and have no relation to Ohio heritagally or culturally and to attempt to disprove the local native people's heritage even after the supreme court has ruled in their favor is purely a genocidal act upon the Ohio's native population.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:29 AM   #214
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Your group almost lost all your government money messing with the Freedman, then your group goes crying about it. I would think your group would of learned a lesson about messing with people but it seems you and your group did not learn a single thing.

Why they can't get enrolled is simple, THEY DID NOT GO TO OKLAHOMA duh. The reason they have problems getting federal is because your group keeps writing to congress and sending out mass emails to people to have them write to congress to mess up these attempts at Federal. It sure did not feel good when it got done back huh? The freedman is a small group compared to all these tribes your group is harassing, imagine if all them and the freedman starts writing letters in unity to congress about what your group been doing?

Fact: Not all Cherokee went down the trail of tears, the Eastern Band of Cherokee is proof of that.

Fact: Not all cherokee was in those areas when the removal happened, Court records prove that.

Fact: Alot of these Cherokee groups the CNO call fake, has actually been recognized by government agencies for 116 or more years.
If you don't believe me, just go to the Kentucky Cherokee's website.

Fact: Reason there is other Cherokee groups other than the 3 Federal ones is because there was more than 3 bands of Cherokee.

Fact: The Federal cherokee uses smear campaigns to get what they want.

Fact: The federal Cherokee has been attempting to get sole rights on Casinos and gambling in North Carolina.

Fact: The Federal Cherokee was not the only group of people forced down the trail of tears.

Fact: The Federal Cherokee has kicked people to the street which had walked that same trail of tears.

Fact: The federal Cherokee enrolls non native amerians if those non native americans can bring them more money. Bill Clinton is a prime example of this.

Fact: The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has less native blood than many of the non recognized tribes which they claim is fake.
WOW!!!

Fact: The Eastern Cherokee didn't go, but some did and returned and many who stayed did (years later) go to OK and Joined the CNO on the Dawes Rolls. And another fact, those who did and are can trace their ancestor's through the tribe back to at least 1835 and some (in some cases many) can go back as far as 1817 and even before then. Fact they stayed together as a Tribe and family.

Fact: Those who were not in the area, also didn't try to help out the people who were there. Because Fact: those not in the area had left the tribe and chose to live as "White" and that's also recorded and documented. No different the an Irishman who left Ireland, he's of Irish descent but not a Citizen of Ireland.

Fact: many say they are recognized, but aren't. Are they federal records stating that, not their records? Anyone can type something up and say it's a fact, but doesn't mean it is through and recognized by the Federal Gov unless there's a document from them actually stating that. And many State's that don't have Federally Recognized tribes in their borders have no clue about the DOI or BIA and have no clue how to handle it, so some do accept stuff that's not Federal by mistake at first. Like I mentioned before that Fake Shawnee group, the guy had the sheriff convinced that his land at Zane Caverns was "Federal Land", finally the sheriff called the Attorney General's office of the state and they informed the Sheriff that that is Privately Owned land and is NOT Indian or Federal land of any kind. Many of those agencies don't communicate with each other and are not that bright until something happens. The same with Kentucky, they are NOT federally recognized. And another FACT: The Minority commission is set up to allow funds to anyone of a Minority background and at no time do they have to prove Federal Recognition, that is totally different then touching the funds specifically set aside for the Federally recognized tribes by acts of Treaty's. So it depends on the agency and where they get their funding from before you can make a claim on them being "Federally Recognized" There are laws about that too.

Fact: Bands? Are you referring to Clans? There were different communities, but they all know who each other were and could communicate.

Fact: Smear campaigns? Have you seen the aweful stuff that's written and said by some who have no clue as to the true history of the Cherokee people. I've had people tell me all kinds of stuff such as there were Cherokee's in OK in 1425, uh there's no documentation back that far for Cherokee's considering Desoto came into Cherokee lands in 1540, you're looking at over 100 years before then. And I've heard people get on MIC's and start spewing the biggest bunch of garbage about the tribe trying to make themselves appear to be so knowledgeable. And it's absoluetly horrible and insulting to actual cherokee's and chorokee descendents who are real and bother to know the people, history and traditions. Unlike most of the Fake tribes.

Fact: The Eastern Cherokee had a Casino for years and then all of a sudden other's think they are making all this money so they want to cut a piece of the action for themselves, take away what the Cherokee's had for so long (Just like the fakes try to do!!!). So yes they are going to fight. It's called SURVIVAL. Let them find another way to make money then to take what the Cherokee's have built up!!!

Fact: pretty much every tribe has been relocated at one time or another. Moved from one place to another and then back again. The Sioux sure leap to mind too and so do many other's as well. So what's the point on that one?

Fact: "Kicked to the curb"? If you are referring to the Freedmen again, Josiah said it was resolved. It was a tribal thing and if the tribes are Sovereign then it's their business. As for your comment that I saw about the Slaves carrying the luggage. HOLY CRAP!!! What are you on? There was no luggage. The people left with just the cloths on their backs. Not much else, and anything else was carried in Wagons. Oh and there are records of what was in and on the wagons and how many per Detachment. So think again. And as a matter of fact, the Cherokee's were told to accept the Freedmen as part of the tribe based on the treaty of 1866, after the Civil War. But the Eastern Cherokee's, who were already and still together, were never given or made such a treaty and neither were any other federally recognized tribe other then the 5 civilized tribes, as far as I know (I could be wrong, but I don't think so).

Fact: "Enroll non cherokee people". Um, all Indian tribes had adoption practices, and again if they are sovereign then that's their choice and their right. What sour grape's 'cause it wasn't you?

Fact: less Native blood then the Fake tribes.HAHAHAHAHA :Hysterica Okay, you have to wait for me to stop laughing here. Now that was the least intelligent statement I've read so far.HAHAHAHA I can't stop laughing. Oh my gosh what a hoot!!!! Are you serious? Now if that were the case and able to be documented then they would be Enrolled or a Citizen, but they arent'. So where's the proof? In their fantasy worlds and not on any document or the tribe would have it and know. Here's a good one. A man from Germany who's grandfather was Full Indian, met his grandma while he was in the service and they had a son, the grandfather died very early in life. Guess what!!! Oh the Grandson was Enrolled, oh this year even. Yeah, so you can spew how they don't accept, but I know for a fact that if there's verifiable ancestry, then yes it is accepted. So try again.

Moving on to more, gonna be a while. Think I better plan on an all nighter.HAHAHAHA
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:29 AM   #215
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So are you implying no Native west of the Mississippi should move east of the Mississippi? Or are you implying any Native west of the Mississippi should not have contact with natives east of the Mississippi?

And while we're at it. Did you list Croatan as one of your ancestrial tribes? Can you name one Croatan?

There are 8 (eight) state recognized tribes in North Carolina. You state you can name 4 (four) tribes in that state you could enroll into. Are you willing to name them? Are you going to use the 'you came to take their money' card to skirt the questions?
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:38 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Parker Jeffries vs John Akeny. Ohio supreme court.
This case was against the Zenia township for refusing him to vote.
This court case stated Parker Jeffries was of the "indian race".

Just one of the many sources for this is "Reports of cases argued and determined in the Supreme Court of Ohio, Volume 11 By Ohio. Supreme Court, Ohio. Supreme"


In this Supreme court case it was stated clearly that there was indian descendants living in Ohio some as far back since it's beginings and one was even working in the Ohio court house as the clerk, while 2 others was members of the Ohio bar.

So yes, people in Ohio to this day's family have been recognized by the Supreme court as being indians. However does these people have a Federal Recognigtion card? No they do not. Yet to have someone who does have a Federal card to move to Ohio and have no relation to Ohio heritagally or culturally and to attempt to disprove the local native people's heritage even after the supreme court has ruled in their favor is purely a genocidal act upon the Ohio's native population.

OH MY GOSH, yes there are many NDN's in OH. And for may years. But that's one individual, not a tribe. You aren't even getting that. You were talking about 'Tribes in OH". No one has to go through the Supreme court in OH to prove they are NDN unless they are trying to get something for it or out of it. You are missing the point, no one says that there aren't NDN's in OH, there are NO TRIBES!!! In OH. The ones who are in OH now, were moved there either by relocation or on their own. There are some Shawnee who are descendants, but they are NOT part of the URB which is the only "Tribe" in OH that is claiming to be State Recognized. As for many of the other's, not a chance. The Delaware claim to be a Tribe and yet, many of them don't claim to be delaware: they claim to be Cherokee, Wyandott and of other backgrounds. HOW? One person does NOT make a tribe. Fake tribes are fake and there aren't any real tribes in the state of OH. Yes, there are Indian people, true Indian people and descendants. But don't confuse them with other's who are fakes and liars who try to pull fast ones on innocent people and rake money from the state as that one fake I keep mentioning has been doing for so many years. I actually know a man who is Shawnee and that fool Jerry Pope turned him away 'cause he was really Ndn and Jerry isn't. No he's not if he has to lie, steal, cheat, and violate Federal LAws to get away with something, then he's totally FAKE!!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:39 AM   #217
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WOW!!!

Fact: The Eastern Cherokee didn't go, but some did and returned and many who stayed did (years later) go to OK and Joined the CNO on the Dawes Rolls. And another fact, those who did and are can trace their ancestor's through the tribe back to at least 1835 and some (in some cases many) can go back as far as 1817 and even before then. Fact they stayed together as a Tribe and family.

Fact: Those who were not in the area, also didn't try to help out the people who were there. Because Fact: those not in the area had left the tribe and chose to live as "White" and that's also recorded and documented. No different the an Irishman who left Ireland, he's of Irish descent but not a Citizen of Ireland.

Fact: many say they are recognized, but aren't. Are they federal records stating that, not their records? Anyone can type something up and say it's a fact, but doesn't mean it is through and recognized by the Federal Gov unless there's a document from them actually stating that. And many State's that don't have Federally Recognized tribes in their borders have no clue about the DOI or BIA and have no clue how to handle it, so some do accept stuff that's not Federal by mistake at first. Like I mentioned before that Fake Shawnee group, the guy had the sheriff convinced that his land at Zane Caverns was "Federal Land", finally the sheriff called the Attorney General's office of the state and they informed the Sheriff that that is Privately Owned land and is NOT Indian or Federal land of any kind. Many of those agencies don't communicate with each other and are not that bright until something happens. The same with Kentucky, they are NOT federally recognized. And another FACT: The Minority commission is set up to allow funds to anyone of a Minority background and at no time do they have to prove Federal Recognition, that is totally different then touching the funds specifically set aside for the Federally recognized tribes by acts of Treaty's. So it depends on the agency and where they get their funding from before you can make a claim on them being "Federally Recognized" There are laws about that too.

Fact: Bands? Are you referring to Clans? There were different communities, but they all know who each other were and could communicate.

Fact: Smear campaigns? Have you seen the aweful stuff that's written and said by some who have no clue as to the true history of the Cherokee people. I've had people tell me all kinds of stuff such as there were Cherokee's in OK in 1425, uh there's no documentation back that far for Cherokee's considering Desoto came into Cherokee lands in 1540, you're looking at over 100 years before then. And I've heard people get on MIC's and start spewing the biggest bunch of garbage about the tribe trying to make themselves appear to be so knowledgeable. And it's absoluetly horrible and insulting to actual cherokee's and chorokee descendents who are real and bother to know the people, history and traditions. Unlike most of the Fake tribes.

Fact: The Eastern Cherokee had a Casino for years and then all of a sudden other's think they are making all this money so they want to cut a piece of the action for themselves, take away what the Cherokee's had for so long (Just like the fakes try to do!!!). So yes they are going to fight. It's called SURVIVAL. Let them find another way to make money then to take what the Cherokee's have built up!!!

Fact: pretty much every tribe has been relocated at one time or another. Moved from one place to another and then back again. The Sioux sure leap to mind too and so do many other's as well. So what's the point on that one?

Fact: "Kicked to the curb"? If you are referring to the Freedmen again, Josiah said it was resolved. It was a tribal thing and if the tribes are Sovereign then it's their business. As for your comment that I saw about the Slaves carrying the luggage. HOLY CRAP!!! What are you on? There was no luggage. The people left with just the cloths on their backs. Not much else, and anything else was carried in Wagons. Oh and there are records of what was in and on the wagons and how many per Detachment. So think again. And as a matter of fact, the Cherokee's were told to accept the Freedmen as part of the tribe based on the treaty of 1866, after the Civil War. But the Eastern Cherokee's, who were already and still together, were never given or made such a treaty and neither were any other federally recognized tribe other then the 5 civilized tribes, as far as I know (I could be wrong, but I don't think so).

Fact: "Enroll non cherokee people". Um, all Indian tribes had adoption practices, and again if they are sovereign then that's their choice and their right. What sour grape's 'cause it wasn't you?

Fact: less Native blood then the Fake tribes.HAHAHAHAHA :Hysterica Okay, you have to wait for me to stop laughing here. Now that was the least intelligent statement I've read so far.HAHAHAHA I can't stop laughing. Oh my gosh what a hoot!!!! Are you serious? Now if that were the case and able to be documented then they would be Enrolled or a Citizen, but they arent'. So where's the proof? In their fantasy worlds and not on any document or the tribe would have it and know. Here's a good one. A man from Germany who's grandfather was Full Indian, met his grandma while he was in the service and they had a son, the grandfather died very early in life. Guess what!!! Oh the Grandson was Enrolled, oh this year even. Yeah, so you can spew how they don't accept, but I know for a fact that if there's verifiable ancestry, then yes it is accepted. So try again.

Moving on to more, gonna be a while. Think I better plan on an all nighter.HAHAHAHA
Darn timmy tiger, where did you get all that knowledge??? LOL

Been to visit your family up on Qualla Boundary lately?

I don't think ECBN knows what you do with all transcripts.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:51 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Parker Jeffries vs John Akeny. Ohio supreme court.
This case was against the Zenia township for refusing him to vote.
This court case stated Parker Jeffries was of the "indian race".

Just one of the many sources for this is "Reports of cases argued and determined in the Supreme Court of Ohio, Volume 11 By Ohio. Supreme Court, Ohio. Supreme"


In this Supreme court case it was stated clearly that there was indian descendants living in Ohio some as far back since it's beginings and one was even working in the Ohio court house as the clerk, while 2 others was members of the Ohio bar.

So yes, people in Ohio to this day's family have been recognized by the Supreme court as being indians. However does these people have a Federal Recognigtion card? No they do not. Yet to have someone who does have a Federal card to move to Ohio and have no relation to Ohio heritagally or culturally and to attempt to disprove the local native people's heritage even after the supreme court has ruled in their favor is purely a genocidal act upon the Ohio's native population.
Please explain to me what you call an "Indian".
I ask because you said.....people in Ohio to this day's family have been recognized by the Supreme court as being indians.
you also stated...In this Supreme court case it was stated clearly that there was indian descendants

that seems to be a discrepancy as I believe that as the blood quantum fades so does the right to be federally recognized. And being federally recognized has nothing to do with whether someones relative from long,long ago wasan indian themselves but rather it is contingent upon a more recent ancestor.



and...Did you really say buffalo chips?

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:52 AM   #219
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So are you implying no Native west of the Mississippi should move east of the Mississippi? Or are you implying any Native west of the Mississippi should not have contact with natives east of the Mississippi?
Well gee, that would be a drag. Segregation of a whole different sort. Nothing surprises me in this thread any more.

Edited to add: Yes, cmom I really said buffalo chips.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:01 AM   #220
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Darn timmy tiger, where did you get all that knowledge??? LOL

Been to visit your family up on Qualla Boundary lately?

I don't think ECBN knows what you do with all transcripts.
LOL--hey JD.

Nah, haven't been to see them lately. My van's still down, but they are asking when I'm coming back out. I talk to them all the time either on the phone or Net.LOL

Yeah, I don't think they do either. I don't think they realize that I don't have a dinning room table 'cause it's totally piled with old records, Military and Federal about the tribe.HAHAHAHAHA Yeah, it's amazing what is actually out there and so when someone spews bunk, it's so easy to see it and let the truth fly.HAHAHAHA
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