Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree2Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues The Federal Cherokee Debate The Federal Cherokee Debate

Closed Thread LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2012, 05:39 AM   #241
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
I haven't done Creek Ancestry, as of yet. But I know some about the Creek. But you claimed them as something else before if I remember right, the thread is right above. And as for who closed it down, they were both in there and both are Mods, but I thought that Black Bear admitted to it in another NC thread you then tried to go into and she nailed you there too, if my memory serves me right and I can look that up too.LOL And Black Bear's Tuscarora, I believe. So you need to research it!!

WOW since the 1820's eh? Wow, you want a cookie? That doesn't prove anything since the Creeks were in the area long before then. And White people started moving in that area right after the Rev War in droves. Some before, but more after the Rev War.

Do you think you're the only one who's grandparents have some Native ancestry somewhere? Still doesn't make you eligible if they left the tribe, then they left the tribe and it's up to the tribe to decide not for you to make up one just 'cause you don't like the way things are.

And you might want to check yourself at the door before judging someone else for what you yourself are doing. You say someone else can't prove something, but you showed us all kinds of documents that didn't prove anything there either and we all told you that, but you kept coming at us and we kept telling you. So now 4 years later you come back with other crap and think we're going to fall for it again. You know Indian people aren't stupid, you know. We do have some brains. You try to play people for stupid and then take a break to let things cool down then come back with a new story, but spewing the same garbage, in a different way, as you did before and what? Think we won't remember or that it doesn't matter? OH it sure does, 'cause you are doing the same thing and nothing to prove anything other then, again, sour grapes.

Shame on you.
Actually, I asked them to show even one document and they could not lol

So why keep asking me for more and more documents when they was not showing one thing huh. Thats quite interesting. Maybe you really should look at cherokee communties of the south which I provided you a link to before you go any further into the Saponi subject lol


My story has never changed lol So before you try that one again, prove it lol But you can't.



--Do you think you're the only one who's grandparents have some Native ancestry somewhere? --

Actually thats what the Federal card holding "wanna be" hunters tell people. So don't try to turn that one around lol. They are the ones going around telling all the non recognized native people that only federal card holders are indian lol

As for leaving the tribe, ummm we did not leave the tribe lol. Still on the same land to this day lol, been documented on the same exact land since 1820's. If you are not aware, the removal act only stated he had to go if we wanted to follow indian law over state law, it also stated if we stayed we could not keep fighting with the white settlers. The families my grandmother's family married into was the mixed indians who was moving into georgia.

I've done covered all this before but I shall state it again

--Early Villa Rica had a Wild West atmosphere complete with Indians, horse thieves, and vigilante justice. The Creek Indian village was located on Sweetwater Creek east of town. They were hunters, not warriors, and were friendly toward the white settlers eventually taking on work amongst the settlers. Townspeople were invited to Creek celebrations including a three day festival held each autumn with lots of food and activities. At some point later in the 1830s, the Creeks moved to either Arkansas or Oklahoma but local records are unclear whether or not this was by choice or part of the Trail of Tears.--

Mary Talley Anderson (1976), The History of Villa Rica (City of Gold), Privately Published


Next you might want to look at the history behind the Senoya name with Villa rica and Coweta county.

http://www.senoia.com/history.htm


Wanna be hunters are always so funny.
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:44 AM   #242
small bead addict
 
subeeds's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresentDolphinRainbow
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
subeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond repute
subeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Georgia
Posts: 2,977
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 41,237.29
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Can we say SURVIVAL!!!

Do you live there? In NC? Are you a Cherokee Descendant? If not how is it even your business unless you are jealous 'cause you can't get any money.

Yeah, JEALOUS!!!! Ooo boo hoo hoo mommy they won't share with me!!! WHAA
ECSN, my final say on this subject.

You are acting like the southern end of a northbound donkey. TT has it right, you are jealous. You want what you can't have. Why don't you go find a new age forum somewhere and lay all this on them. "I'm an NDN and they won't let me be one. Boohoohoo.Poor me." I'm sure they will be happy to give you an animal totem, a spirit guide and let you be their poster child for the misplaced Native Americans. Maybe you can teach them how to walk the red path. Seems like that's what you and they want. Whatever it is you are looking for, it isn't here. Can't you get that yet?????????????????? You have some seriously deep seated issues and if recognition is one of them, take it to the state or Federal level where they might be able to help you.
__________________
Take nothing for granted. Life can change irrevocably in a heartbeat.

I will not feed the troll-well, I will try.

Last edited by subeeds; 01-01-2012 at 05:44 AM.. Reason: spelling
subeeds is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:45 AM   #243
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Oh and I do want to make a point of fact here.

Many years ago, more then 8 actually. I met a woman and I guess I had done something nice for her. She came looking for me a year later all excited and happy to see me, I felt back 'cause I didn't remember her, but she proceeded to tell me that after we had met she went looking for her ancestry in NC and traced them to the Saponi's. she was telling me how she had met the Chief and that she was involved and totally accepted 'cause they all knew who her ancestor's were. Now this woman didn't join the group in OH and she's from there (I didn't even know about them until like 2-3 years later.LOL). So that should tell everyone else something. If they don't accept you, well there might be a reason for it. I do know a couple of people who really are Saponi, but not that many and OH isn't and wasn't ever Saponi Territory and that so-called tribe is NOT State recognized at all.
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:52 AM   #244
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
OH Band of Saponi? FAKE FAKE FAKE!!!! OH Was never Saponi territory. And yes, I've met them before, FAKE FAKE FAKE!!! They don't even know their own history, just a bunch of people who got together and started a club 'cause they couldn't go through the other's who are in NC and where ever else, not really all that knowledgeable of the Saponi's other then I know there are some real Indians, but the Tribal area was never OH.HAHAHAHAHA Now that's just too funny. So then you live in OH? After all wouldn't that be the only reason you would join a tribe there, fake or not. And they are NOT State Recognized at all, they are a club.
Shows what little you know, The Saponi left Ohio in 1200 ad after being invited to come live in virginia.

You might be interested to know the the ohio band of Saponi and the state recognized saponi of NC carry the same family trees.

I already stated they are not state recognized, no tribe in Ohio is state recognized duh, I already stated that lol.

Again you brought up the NC state recognized Saponi as being the REAL saponi.

I'll again direct you to Cherokee communties of the south written by a FEDERAL recognized Cherokee in the 1970's BEFORE those 3 tribes in nc took the Saponi name.

I also will add one of those state recognized Saponi tribes aka indians of Person county just a few years ago was claiming they was umm..cherokee. The Haliwa Saponi claim they are saponi yet claim their ancestors came off the Tuscarora reservation. Halifax and Warren county was the Tuscarora reservation not Saponi reservation.
The Occaneechi Saponi, Their ancestors claimed they was Catawba not saponi.

Not even one of the 3 tribes in NC has any of the austin family Enrolled yet the Ohio band of Saponi does.

Now what does this say...

Abstracts of the Minutes of the
Court of Pleas and Quarter
Sessions Rowan County,
North Carolina 1753-1762
II:72 19 April 1755
Esquires present: Jas Carter, Jno Handby, Alexr Osburn & Thos Potts. … Whereas John Auston a Saponia Indian and Mary a Susquhanah Indian and Thos a Cattaaba applied for a pass to the Cataba Nation being now on their Journey to conclude a Genl Peace with ye Catabas in behalf of the Sd Nation and also presented 3 Belts of Wampum to Sd Court by which the sd Treaty is to be concluded.

So you still want to Call Ohio band of Saponi huh. You might not want to get into that discussion.

Now before you go any further into calling the Ohio band of Saponi fake, reply with actual saponi documents stating ANY people of the 3 state recognized Saponi groups listed as a Saponi BEFORE the late 1970's. Since you can't, move along lol
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:02 AM   #245
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Actually, I asked them to show even one document and they could not lol

So why keep asking me for more and more documents when they was not showing one thing huh. Thats quite interesting. Maybe you really should look at cherokee communties of the south which I provided you a link to before you go any further into the Saponi subject lol


My story has never changed lol So before you try that one again, prove it lol But you can't.



--Do you think you're the only one who's grandparents have some Native ancestry somewhere? --

Actually thats what the Federal card holding "wanna be" hunters tell people. So don't try to turn that one around lol. They are the ones going around telling all the non recognized native people that only federal card holders are indian lol

As for leaving the tribe, ummm we did not leave the tribe lol. Still on the same land to this day lol, been documented on the same exact land since 1820's. If you are not aware, the removal act only stated he had to go if we wanted to follow indian law over state law, it also stated if we stayed we could not keep fighting with the white settlers. The families my grandmother's family married into was the mixed indians who was moving into georgia.

I've done covered all this before but I shall state it again

--Early Villa Rica had a Wild West atmosphere complete with Indians, horse thieves, and vigilante justice. The Creek Indian village was located on Sweetwater Creek east of town. They were hunters, not warriors, and were friendly toward the white settlers eventually taking on work amongst the settlers. Townspeople were invited to Creek celebrations including a three day festival held each autumn with lots of food and activities. At some point later in the 1830s, the Creeks moved to either Arkansas or Oklahoma but local records are unclear whether or not this was by choice or part of the Trail of Tears.--

Mary Talley Anderson (1976), The History of Villa Rica (City of Gold), Privately Published


Next you might want to look at the history behind the Senoya name with Villa rica and Coweta county.

http://www.senoia.com/history.htm


Wanna be hunters are always so funny.
WOW talk about cocky. You are one cocky sucker, but you always were. So what if they didn't prove it to you, they didn't come onto an open forum crying about not being accepted, you did that. So you want to be accepted, put up or shut up. You wanted us to back you but couldn't prove to us why we should, so we didn't. You had no right to ask her, she wasn't making the statements and she's a member of the tribe you were complaining about. Who are you? No one!!! Wow, you are spoiled.

Well, dude *hands you a tissue* Pull up your big boy panties and get the "F" over it already.

As for those websites. I have no interest in groups. There are real Cherokee Descendents out there, and some do get suckered by the other groups. As for Actual STate recognized tribes, I won't argue that point, only those who are NOT.

And I am going to do just that as a matter of fact. Don't know who you think you are talking down to, but you will get what you give, and so I will give right back. And yes, you have changed your story, I was the one who looked up some of your family 4 years ago, remember. Oh wait, no 'cause at that time you were only claiming them all as Saponi and showing pics of your mom saying "doesn't she look Ndn" "Can't you tell by looking at her."LOL So challenge me, I don't back down.HAHAHAHAHA
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:03 AM   #246
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by subeeds View Post
ECSN, my final say on this subject.

You are acting like the southern end of a northbound donkey. TT has it right, you are jealous. You want what you can't have. Why don't you go find a new age forum somewhere and lay all this on them. "I'm an NDN and they won't let me be one. Boohoohoo.Poor me." I'm sure they will be happy to give you an animal totem, a spirit guide and let you be their poster child for the misplaced Native Americans. Maybe you can teach them how to walk the red path. Seems like that's what you and they want. Whatever it is you are looking for, it isn't here. Can't you get that yet?????????????????? You have some seriously deep seated issues and if recognition is one of them, take it to the state or Federal level where they might be able to help you.
Jealous of what lol If I wanted government money I would just apply for government money, Guess what I had ALL my college schooling paid for and guess what, did not have a thing to do with native ancestry, because you see, the government has this thing where ALL citizens can apply for scholarships, college grants, small business loans, food asistance, medical assistance, etc...and all this has not one thing to do with Native ancestry. Here si the kicker, you can do all this just for being a citizen of the united states. WOW guess you did not know that huh.

Oh and spirit guides and Totem poles etc etc....ummm this is the east coast not west coast.

Now you saying jealous etc, wow looks like you may be talking about the CNO, since they love going out and attacking ANY native americans that does not have recognigtion. And oh yea, did I mention the Federal cherokee wants exclusive rights to Casinos and gambling in north Carolina and don't want any other tribes in nc to be allowed to have rights to casinos or gambling even if those other tribes aquire Federal recognigtion. They also get all mad when the Lumbee have a chance at federal recognigtion. Now thats what is called jealous.

I also have always had a chance to enroll in state recognized tribes, eyt have I? Nope I sure have not. If I was all into wanting recognigtion then I would just get it, simple as that, but I have not.

So next time try to come at me with something more real.
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:10 AM   #247
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
WOW talk about cocky. You are one cocky sucker, but you always were. So what if they didn't prove it to you, they didn't come onto an open forum crying about not being accepted, you did that. So you want to be accepted, put up or shut up. You wanted us to back you but couldn't prove to us why we should, so we didn't. You had no right to ask her, she wasn't making the statements and she's a member of the tribe you were complaining about. Who are you? No one!!! Wow, you are spoiled.

Well, dude *hands you a tissue* Pull up your big boy panties and get the "F" over it already.

As for those websites. I have no interest in groups. There are real Cherokee Descendents out there, and some do get suckered by the other groups. As for Actual STate recognized tribes, I won't argue that point, only those who are NOT.

And I am going to do just that as a matter of fact. Don't know who you think you are talking down to, but you will get what you give, and so I will give right back. And yes, you have changed your story, I was the one who looked up some of your family 4 years ago, remember. Oh wait, no 'cause at that time you were only claiming them all as Saponi and showing pics of your mom saying "doesn't she look Ndn" "Can't you tell by looking at her."LOL So challenge me, I don't back down.HAHAHAHAHA
tick tock tick tock, come on, your so quick to say who is a real saponi and who is not, Your so quick to claim the 3 groups in NC is the REAAALLL Saponi and the others are fake.

Come on...time to put up or shut up.

Show me even ONE document before the late 1970's that names even one person's family in the 3 saponi groups in NC a Saponi. Hell show me even one document listing them with the Saponi by name.

Come on, put up or shut up.

If they are the REAL Saponi you can at least show one document. How many other tribes have they claimed over the years?
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:14 AM   #248
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Shows what little you know, The Saponi left Ohio in 1200 ad after being invited to come live in virginia.

You might be interested to know the the ohio band of Saponi and the state recognized saponi of NC carry the same family trees.

I already stated they are not state recognized, no tribe in Ohio is state recognized duh, I already stated that lol.

Again you brought up the NC state recognized Saponi as being the REAL saponi.

I'll again direct you to Cherokee communties of the south written by a FEDERAL recognized Cherokee in the 1970's BEFORE those 3 tribes in nc took the Saponi name.

I also will add one of those state recognized Saponi tribes aka indians of Person county just a few years ago was claiming they was umm..cherokee. The Haliwa Saponi claim they are saponi yet claim their ancestors came off the Tuscarora reservation. Halifax and Warren county was the Tuscarora reservation not Saponi reservation.
The Occaneechi Saponi, Their ancestors claimed they was Catawba not saponi.

Not even one of the 3 tribes in NC has any of the austin family Enrolled yet the Ohio band of Saponi does.

Now what does this say...

Abstracts of the Minutes of the
Court of Pleas and Quarter
Sessions Rowan County,
North Carolina 1753-1762
II:72 19 April 1755
Esquires present: Jas Carter, Jno Handby, Alexr Osburn & Thos Potts. … Whereas John Auston a Saponia Indian and Mary a Susquhanah Indian and Thos a Cattaaba applied for a pass to the Cataba Nation being now on their Journey to conclude a Genl Peace with ye Catabas in behalf of the Sd Nation and also presented 3 Belts of Wampum to Sd Court by which the sd Treaty is to be concluded.

So you still want to Call Ohio band of Saponi huh. You might not want to get into that discussion.

Now before you go any further into calling the Ohio band of Saponi fake, reply with actual saponi documents stating ANY people of the 3 state recognized Saponi groups listed as a Saponi BEFORE the late 1970's. Since you can't, move along lol
WOW!!! HOLY CRAP!!!

Did you look in your crystal ball to find that one?

You flunked out of history in school didn't you?

"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue." Dang and you are saying OH and 1200, you really have no clue. There was no OH back then. OH became a state in 1803.HAHAHAHA So where did that history come from? A group/club made it up. 'Cause there was no written word back then. Oh unless you say that the Saponi's in OH were the only Native tribe that actually wrote, now.

So keep typing and proving how you don't have an education, well you shouldn't have skipped school that much.

Those are NC documents. Show me one OH Document showing that the Saponi's were ever a part of OH, back in the early 1800's? Show me one showing that they are a state tribe now or even in the last 30 years? They never were!!!
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:22 AM   #249
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
WOW!!! HOLY CRAP!!!

Did you look in your crystal ball to find that one?

You flunked out of history in school didn't you?

"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue." Dang and you are saying OH and 1200, you really have no clue. There was no OH back then. OH became a state in 1803.HAHAHAHA So where did that history come from? A group/club made it up. 'Cause there was no written word back then. Oh unless you say that the Saponi's in OH were the only Native tribe that actually wrote, now.

So keep typing and proving how you don't have an education, well you shouldn't have skipped school that much.

Those are NC documents. Show me one OH Document showing that the Saponi's were ever a part of OH, back in the early 1800's? Show me one showing that they are a state tribe now or even in the last 30 years? They never were!!!
I guess you have not read alot of Saponi historical records huh.

Ned Bear skin in the 1720's while at Fort christianna, Ned Bearskin was a Saponi, he was asked about the history of the saponi people. Ned stated they came from the North West into virginia 400 years before. He did not say west did not say north, he said north west. Ohio is the only location for this, unless you never seen a map. Now let's see, simple math 1700 take away 400 is...ummm..say it with me...1200.

Now, we know the Saponi people Built most of the Mounds in virginia. and guess what is in Ohio, Mounds. DUH.

You kinda feel stupid now huh.

At least think before you reply.

Oh yeah I'm still waiting on you to show me one document with those REAL Saponi's family on it.
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:23 AM   #250
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
I don't research the Saponi's so it doesn't make a difference to me right now. I don't need to see which one may or may not be real. You aren't eligible so why cry about it and find a group that never existed in the place you claim they did.

I do know a person who really is Saponi, who's wife is Federally recognized and she openly says that most of the people of that group are not descendants at all.

Now one last thing but I have to go look it up 'cause I know what was said.LOL Then I'm dong proving you don't know what you are talking about and you sure aren't credible to me at all. Might come back another day, but tonight I really have real people to help find the ancestry. Not someone who makes up fake history's like 1200.HAHAHAHA Oh I have to take a break before I wet myself from laughing so hard.HAHAHAHAHA
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:30 AM   #251
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
I guess you have not read alot of Saponi historical records huh.

Ned Bear skin in the 1720's while at Fort christianna, Ned Bearskin was a Saponi, he was asked about the history of the saponi people. Ned stated they came from the North West into virginia 400 years before. He did not say west did not say north, he said north west. Ohio is the only location for this, unless you never seen a map. Now let's see, simple math 1700 take away 400 is...ummm..say it with me...1200.

Now, we know the Saponi people Built most of the Mounds in virginia. and guess what is in Ohio, Mounds. DUH.

You kinda feel stupid now huh.

At least think before you reply.

Oh yeah I'm still waiting on you to show me one document with those REAL Saponi's family on it.

HAHAHAHAHA

WRONG AGAIN!!!!

1700 - 400 = 1300.LMAO You can't even add simple numbers like that.

There are is a lot of that that goes on with all Tribes. But they don't form "Tribes" in those states that they believe their ancestor's may have once lived. And what, did he look into his crystal ball too? It's not documented and if the tribe left in 1300 either way, then they weren't in OH anymore so that OH Saponi's are FAKE!!! And no OH history lists them at all, other then to maybe say "it is believed that around...." "Believed" and being a fact are two different things and you can't prove it and I don't have to prove it's not 'cause it could have been all made up or he might have gotten the timeline wrong or he could have lied to them to throw them off. You never know!!!
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:35 AM   #252
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
I guess you have not read alot of Saponi historical records huh.

Ned Bear skin in the 1720's while at Fort christianna, Ned Bearskin was a Saponi, he was asked about the history of the saponi people. Ned stated they came from the North West into virginia 400 years before. He did not say west did not say north, he said north west. Ohio is the only location for this, unless you never seen a map. Now let's see, simple math 1700 take away 400 is...ummm..say it with me...1200.

Now, we know the Saponi people Built most of the Mounds in virginia. and guess what is in Ohio, Mounds. DUH.

You kinda feel stupid now huh.

At least think before you reply.

Oh yeah I'm still waiting on you to show me one document with those REAL Saponi's family on it.

No I don't feel stupid, I went to school, can add and know how to read.

You need to think before you post and run your fingers. Want some athelete's foot powder for your mouth? You seem to only open it long enough to change feet.

As for Mounds, many have claimed to have done those including some of the URB and some have said Aztecs where OH at one time too.LOL
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:45 AM   #253
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
I don't research the Saponi's so it doesn't make a difference to me right now. I don't need to see which one may or may not be real. You aren't eligible so why cry about it and find a group that never existed in the place you claim they did.

I do know a person who really is Saponi, who's wife is Federally recognized and she openly says that most of the people of that group are not descendants at all.

Now one last thing but I have to go look it up 'cause I know what was said.LOL Then I'm dong proving you don't know what you are talking about and you sure aren't credible to me at all. Might come back another day, but tonight I really have real people to help find the ancestry. Not someone who makes up fake history's like 1200.HAHAHAHA Oh I have to take a break before I wet myself from laughing so hard.HAHAHAHAHA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_eLJWx2n0

You said the 1800's right.

That video is by some lady who went researching how long the collins melungeon family been in Ohio and she found them entering in the 1850's. She was saying we was aliens so we did not give her much info. We would not give her our tribe name because she was acting all weird with her talks about us being aliens. We relocated to many of the mounds associated with us. In the 1850's they found us all around the serpant mound, in the early 1700's they was trying us as "indians" in court at the Saponi mound at louisa Virginia area. The indians at them court hearings was later indentified directly as Saponi.


You want to go deeper into Ohio's history with us?

http://community-2.webtv.net/dls-Gra...IndianDescent/

--Shawnee Kispoko Chief Waywaythi
Little is recorded about the life of the father of Pucksinwah, except he was thirty years old at the time of Pucksinwah's birth which occurred at Pickawilly, located on the banks of the Great Miami River on the site of Piqua, Miami county, Ohio. No information has been discovered relative to the identity of his wife, Pucksinwah's mother.


Shawnee Kispoko Chief Pucksinwah
He was born at Pickawilly, Ohio, now the site of Piqua, Ohio, son of Wawwaythi. Married Methotasa, a cherokee Shawnee in May of 1755. He died October 10,1774 in the battle at Point Pleasant. He predicted his own death also the death of his son-in-law. Also gave birth to the first recorded triplet sons in the Shawnee Nation. Was a loving father and husband and cherished all young children as shown by adoption of children of white descent taken in battle, as shown below. A great Leader of his people and spiritually attuned to Manato, the Shawnee God.

Tecumpease ( Sister of Tecumseh)
abt 1758 -1823
Spouse -- Rupert Collins b. abt 1742
"The mother of Jane Collins Full is said to have retained her Indian name after her marriage to Mr. Collins." I can vision this Indian girl, dressed in the traditional garb, common to the customs of her people, wise in her knowledge of the wilderness, shy and unpretentious; the daughter of a chief and a princess among her tribe. She was born about 1749.--


Interesting, We have the Same Collins family marrying into the Ohio Shawnee back in the 1700's. We find the Collins family living at the Serpant mound in Ohio in the mid 1850's. We have the same Collins family being tried in court with Saponi indians at the Saponi mound.

Oh and did I mention DNA tests have confirmed these are the same Collins family?

I think I already showed the 1842 supreme court case in Ohio involving the Jeffries family.
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:54 AM   #254
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Oh here's the info you gave us before on your ancestry. And it was Sudie Teal, and she was born in 1909. It's post #121 and we go from there and you go on and one about your lines. And many of them were messed up and I told you about some of it as well. I had to copy it in 2 parts.



"My family tree goes

Joseph Robert Newman
then
Joseph bobby Newman and Robbin Yarbrough (who is 1/8th cherokee)
Then
Joseph Miles Newman and Sudie Senoa Teal
Sudie's info:Birth: 02 SEP 1909 Paulding county, Georgia
Death: 27 MAR 1991 Atlanta, Ga
Miles' info: Birth: 08 AUG 1906 Paulding county, Georgia
Death: 30 JUN 1993 Atlanta, Ga




Then
Ozella "Ozie" petty and John Thomas Teal (both of paulding county ga)
Then
George Washington Teal and Nancy Dobbins
George was born Mar 1834 Georgia, Married about abt 1865 Georgia.



On Nancy dobbins it goes to
William Dobbins and Eliza "Lizer" Jeffers

On George Washington Teal it goes to
George Washington teal and Sarah Elizabeth Little
They married abt 1818 North Carolina.
George's info: Birth: 1799
North Carolina
Death: 1872
Paulding County, Georgia

George Washington teal sr's father was:
Emanuel Teal Birth: 1758
Pitt County, North Carolina
Death: 10 Jan 1833
Henry County, Georgia




On Eliza Jeffers it goes to
John Jeffers/jeffries and Frances Nixon
John was born in Anderson county South Carolina and died in either Alabama or Georgia.

On the John Jeffers/Jeffries it goes
His Father was John Jeffries/Jeffers from virginia. His dad moved to Orange County NC in 1820. His Uncle was Andrew "Drury" Jeffries/Jeffers/Jeffreys/Jeffres (the last name had different spellings).

His GrandFather was Andrew "Drury" Jeffers/Jeffries SR of Virginia.
Andrew Drury Jeffers/Jeffries SR's other Grandson was Parker Jeffries of Ohio. Parker Jeffries had his mother Sally's last name because Sally never married Jeffries' father.....In a Ohio supreme court case Parker had stated his Mother Sally Jeffries was Native American and several witnesses agreed to this...the supreme court won in Parker's favor and he was given the right to vote."

Last edited by timmy tiger; 01-01-2012 at 06:57 AM..
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:11 AM   #255
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_eLJWx2n0

You said the 1800's right.

That video is by some lady who went researching how long the collins melungeon family been in Ohio and she found them entering in the 1850's. She was saying we was aliens so we did not give her much info. We would not give her our tribe name because she was acting all weird with her talks about us being aliens. We relocated to many of the mounds associated with us. In the 1850's they found us all around the serpant mound, in the early 1700's they was trying us as "indians" in court at the Saponi mound at louisa Virginia area. The indians at them court hearings was later indentified directly as Saponi.


You want to go deeper into Ohio's history with us?

http://community-2.webtv.net/dls-Gra...IndianDescent/

--Shawnee Kispoko Chief Waywaythi
Little is recorded about the life of the father of Pucksinwah, except he was thirty years old at the time of Pucksinwah's birth which occurred at Pickawilly, located on the banks of the Great Miami River on the site of Piqua, Miami county, Ohio. No information has been discovered relative to the identity of his wife, Pucksinwah's mother.


Shawnee Kispoko Chief Pucksinwah
He was born at Pickawilly, Ohio, now the site of Piqua, Ohio, son of Wawwaythi. Married Methotasa, a cherokee Shawnee in May of 1755. He died October 10,1774 in the battle at Point Pleasant. He predicted his own death also the death of his son-in-law. Also gave birth to the first recorded triplet sons in the Shawnee Nation. Was a loving father and husband and cherished all young children as shown by adoption of children of white descent taken in battle, as shown below. A great Leader of his people and spiritually attuned to Manato, the Shawnee God.

Tecumpease ( Sister of Tecumseh)
abt 1758 -1823
Spouse -- Rupert Collins b. abt 1742
"The mother of Jane Collins Full is said to have retained her Indian name after her marriage to Mr. Collins." I can vision this Indian girl, dressed in the traditional garb, common to the customs of her people, wise in her knowledge of the wilderness, shy and unpretentious; the daughter of a chief and a princess among her tribe. She was born about 1749.--


Interesting, We have the Same Collins family marrying into the Ohio Shawnee back in the 1700's. We find the Collins family living at the Serpant mound in Ohio in the mid 1850's. We have the same Collins family being tried in court with Saponi indians at the Saponi mound.

Oh and did I mention DNA tests have confirmed these are the same Collins family?

I think I already showed the 1842 supreme court case in Ohio involving the Jeffries family.
LMAO--I said early 1800's.. But it doesn't matter 'cause you say that they went into OH in the 1850's. So what? That doesn't mean it was ever Saponi Territory, one family only. Not the whole Tribe, that's the point. Shoot I can prove that there was a Cherokee Family (by federal records) that moved to OH in 1832, still doesn't make a tribe, only a family who, on their own, left the tribe. That's the point.

And then you go into the Shawnee. I never asked abut the Shawnee, I don't doubt the Shawnee or Pottowatomi(spelling?) or Miami's at all or even the Mingo's. They are all documented in the early 1800's. No not interesting really. Are you sure it's the same family, after all you are talking 150 years difference.

First you say that your Collins show up in OH in 1850's, but then you say that they are related to the Collins who were in OH back in the 1700's. Well, if they inter-married then yeah it would show that possibility. That's why DNA isn't fool proof or accepted by Tribes as proof of ancestry. So it doesn't mean a thing. You need to do some real research on DNA before trying to use that as a proven anything. Do the actual lab's, not the websites trying to get your money by making false promises.

DNA's bunk. It's only a possible probability at best. Even an all male line. But if you have a female in there, not a chance is it right. Male lines are Y-string, Female lines are MtDNA and they only go either back male only or female only. And the Autosomal can only get it to 1/8th possible for siblings, going that far back. Well, I don't know a tribe that accepts DNA for the purpose of proving ancestry or Enrolling. So that's moot right there.
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:17 AM   #256
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
This was wrote in 1672 and it says over 400 years. So either way still close to 1200. This is speaking of the Siouans that came to Virginia. Take note he also refers to the Clock they use being made of a Wheel and refrerences the Mexican indian's wheel clock.

Note: The Oenock is the ENO who lived by Granville, NC. The Oenock merged with the saponi to be universally called Saponi.

http://rla.unc.edu/Archives/accounts...dererText.html

--THE Discoveries of JOHN LEDERER from Virginia to the West of Carolina, and other parts of the Continent These parts were formerly possessed by the Tacci, alias Dogi but they are extinct; and the Indians now seated here, are distinguished into the several Nations of Mahoe, Nuntaneuck,aliàs Nuntaly, Nahyssan, Sapon, Managog, Mangoack, Akenatzy,and Monakin,&c. One Language is common to them all, though they differ in Dialects. The Indians now seated in these parts, are none of those which the English removed from Virginia, but a people driven by an Enemy from the Northwest, and invited to sit down here by an Oracle above four hundred years since, as they pretend: for the ancient inhabitants of Virginia were far more rude and barbarous, feeding onely upon raw flesh and fish, until these taught them to plant Corn, and shewed them the use of it. But before I treat of their ancient Manners and Customs, it is necessary I should shew by what means the knowledge of them hath been conveyed from former ages to posterity. Three ways they supply their want of Letters: first by Counters, secondly by Emblemes or Hieroglyphicks, thirdly by Tradition delivered in long Tales from father to son, which being children they are made to learn by rite.

An account of Time, and other things, they keep on a string or leather thong tied in knots of several colours. I took particular notice of small Wheels serving for this purpose among the Oenocks, because I have heard that the Mexicans use the same.--


It is funny you mention Aztecs Because people have refered to this Ohio Collins family as aztecs also.


Keep in mind the Melungeon's indian blood comes from Vardy Collins and shepard gibson. DNA tests prove Vardy is the same collins as the Ohio collins and the Virginia Collins and the Granville, NC Collins. So when this guy mentions Melungeons in the sense of indians, he is speaking about Vardy Collins and Shepard gibson's kids.


http://www.historical-melungeons.com/worlds_fair.html



--The Melungeons

A Strange and Little Known Tennessee People

Descendants of Aztecs and Pizarro’s Spaniards - Their Peculiar Manners and Customs - Speculations: “Who are These Peoplle?

(From a Special Contributor)

July 29, 1894


But investigation proves these people to be true descendants of the Aztecs, with the blood of Spain and Portugal,
Now, let us take all the evidences we have before us-the names, features, bearings, habits, fondness for bright clothing and ornaments, traits of character and disposition, relics yet preserved in their homes, although unassociated as links in the chain of a direct history of their ancestry in the minds of the present tribe or race of “Melungeons,” yet is convincing to me that they are the diect descendants of the Aztecs and Portuguese, the latter commingling with the Aztecs probably as far back as the sixteenth century-I say this because I believe I can furnish proof of evidence difficult to refute of this being true-tat the Aztecs welcomed among them these few adventurers and that the union of the two races never extended farther than a limited area and a proportionately small amount of mixed blood, these being confined to the present limits of Tennessee, and represented now by a few hundred “Melungeons.”

R. A. BOWIE--


There is more references however I am not getting into all of it. However I did prove my point that these siouans did get brought to Virginia from the North West, anyone who looks at a map will see Ohio is North West.

So timmy care to still comments about a subject you do not know about?

Oh and by the way I'm still waiting to see even one document on the three Saponi groups.
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:45 AM   #257
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Take note of Collins and Saponi

--At a Council held at the Capitol November 5 th 1724
On reading this day at the Board sundry Depositions taken
before the Justices of Spotsylvania County against a Saponie
Indian nam'd Sawney lately return'd from Canada, whereby
it appears that the said Indian did behave himself very insolently
threatning the Inhabitants with a speedy Incursion of the French
Indians ; and the said Indian being examin'd in Council did ac-
knowledge that he was taken by the French Indians, and carried
into Canada about two years ago, That he had been with the said
French Indians in an incursion on the people of New-England but that last Summer he was permitted to go to Albany in
Company with some of the said French Indians, from whence,
by the Favour of Cap* Collins the Officer of the Fort there,
he had Liberty to return to Virginia--

http://www.archive.org/stream/execut...4virg_djvu.txt

Louisa county, Va is where the saponi mound is.

http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1...latt_river.htm

Here is a document listing Saponi by name and matches the names in the last link.

http://www.aventfamily.org/taveltr.htm


This all matches the 1970's cherokee communties of the south document as well.

It was not till the late 1970's that the haliwa Saponi every changed their name to Saponi, was not till MUCH later the occaneechi Saponi added Saponi to their name, and the indians of person county after failing to be able to use the cherokee name they a few years ago added saponi. So where was those 3 group's all this time. They also got their state recognigtion under a different name, they did not get state rec with the name Saponi, they added Saponi AFTER state recognigtion.


Now timmy timmy timmy, Still waiting on at least one document. Come on man, you made all these insults, and claimed those 3 Saponi groups are the REAL Saponi and the ohio band of saponi is the fakes, come on, I brought documents, now it is time for you to back up your claims. Don't say it unless you can back it up.

Everyone is counting on you man, your supposed to have came here to disprove me on stuff, come on, you have got to have at least one document to support your claims. I brought documents to the table, you have to bring at least something if you are going to disprove me.

Last edited by ECSN; 01-01-2012 at 07:48 AM..
ECSN is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:46 AM   #258
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
This was wrote in 1672 and it says over 400 years. So either way still close to 1200. This is speaking of the Siouans that came to Virginia. Take note he also refers to the Clock they use being made of a Wheel and refrerences the Mexican indian's wheel clock.

Note: The Oenock is the ENO who lived by Granville, NC. The Oenock merged with the saponi to be universally called Saponi.

http://rla.unc.edu/Archives/accounts...dererText.html

--THE Discoveries of JOHN LEDERER from Virginia to the West of Carolina, and other parts of the Continent These parts were formerly possessed by the Tacci, alias Dogi but they are extinct; and the Indians now seated here, are distinguished into the several Nations of Mahoe, Nuntaneuck,aliàs Nuntaly, Nahyssan, Sapon, Managog, Mangoack, Akenatzy,and Monakin,&c. One Language is common to them all, though they differ in Dialects. The Indians now seated in these parts, are none of those which the English removed from Virginia, but a people driven by an Enemy from the Northwest, and invited to sit down here by an Oracle above four hundred years since, as they pretend: for the ancient inhabitants of Virginia were far more rude and barbarous, feeding onely upon raw flesh and fish, until these taught them to plant Corn, and shewed them the use of it. But before I treat of their ancient Manners and Customs, it is necessary I should shew by what means the knowledge of them hath been conveyed from former ages to posterity. Three ways they supply their want of Letters: first by Counters, secondly by Emblemes or Hieroglyphicks, thirdly by Tradition delivered in long Tales from father to son, which being children they are made to learn by rite.

An account of Time, and other things, they keep on a string or leather thong tied in knots of several colours. I took particular notice of small Wheels serving for this purpose among the Oenocks, because I have heard that the Mexicans use the same.--


It is funny you mention Aztecs Because people have refered to this Ohio Collins family as aztecs also.


Keep in mind the Melungeon's indian blood comes from Vardy Collins and shepard gibson. DNA tests prove Vardy is the same collins as the Ohio collins and the Virginia Collins and the Granville, NC Collins. So when this guy mentions Melungeons in the sense of indians, he is speaking about Vardy Collins and Shepard gibson's kids.


http://www.historical-melungeons.com/worlds_fair.html



--The Melungeons

A Strange and Little Known Tennessee People

Descendants of Aztecs and Pizarro’s Spaniards - Their Peculiar Manners and Customs - Speculations: “Who are These Peoplle?

(From a Special Contributor)

July 29, 1894


But investigation proves these people to be true descendants of the Aztecs, with the blood of Spain and Portugal,
Now, let us take all the evidences we have before us-the names, features, bearings, habits, fondness for bright clothing and ornaments, traits of character and disposition, relics yet preserved in their homes, although unassociated as links in the chain of a direct history of their ancestry in the minds of the present tribe or race of “Melungeons,” yet is convincing to me that they are the diect descendants of the Aztecs and Portuguese, the latter commingling with the Aztecs probably as far back as the sixteenth century-I say this because I believe I can furnish proof of evidence difficult to refute of this being true-tat the Aztecs welcomed among them these few adventurers and that the union of the two races never extended farther than a limited area and a proportionately small amount of mixed blood, these being confined to the present limits of Tennessee, and represented now by a few hundred “Melungeons.”

R. A. BOWIE--


There is more references however I am not getting into all of it. However I did prove my point that these siouans did get brought to Virginia from the North West, anyone who looks at a map will see Ohio is North West.

So timmy care to still comments about a subject you do not know about?

Oh and by the way I'm still waiting to see even one document on the three Saponi groups.

First of all I'm not arguring about the other Saponi's. I'm not a descendant. And they are State Recognized by the states they live in. The one's in OH Are NOT!!!

So that's your problem. I'm not worried about showing a document about one already seen by the state they reside in. I just know the ones in OH are FAKE!!! You can't fully document them as a tribe, only--maybe possibly one family if you're lucky. That's not a tribe. Get over it already. And it doesn't matter when he said it, you said 1700, now 1672, NEXT?LOL You keep changing it. Doesn't matter, it's just one person's word not a document and yes it's important to the tribe. But not a bunch of people running around trying to claim something that can't be. Not if the tribe left the state in the 1200 or even 1300's and then people show up 1850, wow who did they marry? How did they know one ancestor from 500 years before? Wouldn't have carried that far back then and your story is flat out wacked.

So what if they were brought to VA from OH, they left the state and from the time of the State's statehood, they were not ever documented as being in the State of OH so therefore the tribe left the state. ANy who remained left the tribe and aren't documented as being part of the tribe. The Court document you say shows someone was Indian, doesn't list what Tribe just that they were Indian. At least I didn't see it.

I do know what I'm talking about. It's you trying to twist it again like you always do. The facts are still the same:

1. There are NO State Recognized tribes in the state of OH

2. If the Saponi's had been in OH once, the tribe had left before it became a state and there's no documentation showing that they were actually in OH. Sure verbal history that is important to the tribe themselves, but has no basis for anyone to make up a tribe based on that. Especially since some families didn't show up until 1850's and OH became a state in 1803, where were they before 1850? So in 1850 they left the body of the tribe? so then still they left the tribe on their own. Either way, that's one family not a Tribe.

3. The OH Group of Saponi's is Fake and NOT State recognized or documented through the State at all. Means no Tribe, just a club!!!

4. You went in putting down Federally recognized tribes out of sour grapes and spoiled behavior and when someone shows you and tells you that something you want isn't real then you lower yourself to insults and arrogance and cocky behavior that you try to throw on someone else, but you now people now me here and can see through your arrogance. Well, if you have to go right ahead. I know the truth and so do you and everyone who reads these posts and the other's on the other thread. Yeah, you can go pout in a corner. The OH Saponi's are NOT a Tribe, they are a CLUB!!!! Nothing more

A CLUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:52 AM   #259
Head Dancer
 
timmy tiger's Avatar
 
Items Cake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
timmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond reputetimmy tiger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where ever there are babies or children you can find me
Posts: 36,934
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 8,331.92
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Take note of Collins and Saponi

--At a Council held at the Capitol November 5 th 1724
On reading this day at the Board sundry Depositions taken
before the Justices of Spotsylvania County against a Saponie
Indian nam'd Sawney lately return'd from Canada, whereby
it appears that the said Indian did behave himself very insolently
threatning the Inhabitants with a speedy Incursion of the French
Indians ; and the said Indian being examin'd in Council did ac-
knowledge that he was taken by the French Indians, and carried
into Canada about two years ago, That he had been with the said
French Indians in an incursion on the people of New-England but that last Summer he was permitted to go to Albany in
Company with some of the said French Indians, from whence,
by the Favour of Cap* Collins the Officer of the Fort there,
he had Liberty to return to Virginia--

http://www.archive.org/stream/execut...4virg_djvu.txt

Louisa county, Va is where the saponi mound is.

http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1...latt_river.htm

Here is a document listing Saponi by name and matches the names in the last link.

http://www.aventfamily.org/taveltr.htm


This all matches the 1970's cherokee communties of the south document as well.

It was not till the late 1970's that the haliwa Saponi every changed their name to Saponi, was not till MUCH later the occaneechi Saponi added Saponi to their name, and the indians of person county after failing to be able to use the cherokee name they a few years ago added saponi. So where was those 3 group's all this time. They also got their state recognigtion under a different name, they did not get state rec with the name Saponi, they added Saponi AFTER state recognigtion.


Now timmy timmy timmy, Still waiting on at least one document. Come on man, you made all these insults, and claimed those 3 Saponi groups are the REAL Saponi and the ohio band of saponi is the fakes, come on, I brought documents, now it is time for you to back up your claims. Don't say it unless you can back it up.

Everyone is counting on you man, your supposed to have came here to disprove me on stuff, come on, you have got to have at least one document to support your claims. I brought documents to the table, you have to bring at least something if you are going to disprove me.
First of all I didn't say they were "REAL" I never used those words, so you need to grow up!!!

I said they were State Recognized by the states they are in. You say different then you prove it. I really don't care. The OH Saponi's are FAKE!!!

FAKE

FAKE

FAKE

FAKE

I'm bored. I'm going to bed. Let me know if you come up with something new. I have to wash my hair and paint my nails now. And stop saying someone said something they didn't. I didn't say 'REAL" ever. But you changed that story of the time line like 4 times.LOL From 400 years, to 300 years. From 1700 to 1692. Gee, get your story straight before running around in Circles. How can you expect anyone to believe you are even a descendant if you can't get the history correct.LOL

You are way too arrogent for someone who has no clue and wants to be with a FAKE club.
timmy tiger is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:53 AM   #260
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
First of all I'm not arguring about the other Saponi's. I'm not a descendant. And they are State Recognized by the states they live in. The one's in OH Are NOT!!!

So that's your problem. I'm not worried about showing a document about one already seen by the state they reside in. I just know the ones in OH are FAKE!!! You can't fully document them as a tribe, only--maybe possibly one family if you're lucky. That's not a tribe. Get over it already. And it doesn't matter when he said it, you said 1700, now 1672, NEXT?LOL You keep changing it. Doesn't matter, it's just one person's word not a document and yes it's important to the tribe. But not a bunch of people running around trying to claim something that can't be. Not if the tribe left the state in the 1200 or even 1300's and then people show up 1850, wow who did they marry? How did they know one ancestor from 500 years before? Wouldn't have carried that far back then and your story is flat out wacked.

So what if they were brought to VA from OH, they left the state and from the time of the State's statehood, they were not ever documented as being in the State of OH so therefore the tribe left the state. ANy who remained left the tribe and aren't documented as being part of the tribe. The Court document you say shows someone was Indian, doesn't list what Tribe just that they were Indian. At least I didn't see it.

I do know what I'm talking about. It's you trying to twist it again like you always do. The facts are still the same:

1. There are NO State Recognized tribes in the state of OH

2. If the Saponi's had been in OH once, the tribe had left before it became a state and there's no documentation showing that they were actually in OH. Sure verbal history that is important to the tribe themselves, but has no basis for anyone to make up a tribe based on that. Especially since some families didn't show up until 1850's and OH became a state in 1803, where were they before 1850? So in 1850 they left the body of the tribe? so then still they left the tribe on their own. Either way, that's one family not a Tribe.

3. The OH Group of Saponi's is Fake and NOT State recognized or documented through the State at all. Means no Tribe, just a club!!!

4. You went in putting down Federally recognized tribes out of sour grapes and spoiled behavior and when someone shows you and tells you that something you want isn't real then you lower yourself to insults and arrogance and cocky behavior that you try to throw on someone else, but you now people now me here and can see through your arrogance. Well, if you have to go right ahead. I know the truth and so do you and everyone who reads these posts and the other's on the other thread. Yeah, you can go pout in a corner. The OH Saponi's are NOT a Tribe, they are a CLUB!!!! Nothing more

A CLUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They did not show the state documents for saponi, THEY DID NOT GET STATE RECOGNIGTION UNDER THE NAME SAPONI.

Timmy, where is the documents.

Unless you can find at least one document, you are showing nothing you saycan be trusted. If you say one group is real and claim the other is fake, then prove it or shut up. Where is at least one document. Those 3 Saponi groups could not find a single document, so I fin dit hard that you will be able to also LOL

Where is the document....even one.
ECSN is offline  
Sponsored Links
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello I am Hummingbird from Fl. hummingbird45 Introductions 140 01-17-2012 02:40 PM
United Keetoowah Band Of Cherokees Josiah Native Issues 32 12-14-2011 05:29 PM
List of Fraudulent Cherokee/Chickamuaga's kiowakat Native Issues 106 08-01-2011 11:03 AM
A Resolution Opposing Fabricated Cherokee "tribes" And "indian's" Josiah Native Issues 34 03-04-2010 05:29 PM
Cherokee House Bill introduced WhoMe Chit Chat 12 07-12-2009 08:19 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery