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Old 01-01-2012, 08:57 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Take note of Collins and Saponi

--At a Council held at the Capitol November 5 th 1724
On reading this day at the Board sundry Depositions taken
before the Justices of Spotsylvania County against a Saponie
Indian nam'd Sawney lately return'd from Canada, whereby
it appears that the said Indian did behave himself very insolently
threatning the Inhabitants with a speedy Incursion of the French
Indians ; and the said Indian being examin'd in Council did ac-
knowledge that he was taken by the French Indians, and carried
into Canada about two years ago, That he had been with the said
French Indians in an incursion on the people of New-England but that last Summer he was permitted to go to Albany in
Company with some of the said French Indians, from whence,
by the Favour of Cap* Collins the Officer of the Fort there,
he had Liberty to return to Virginia--

http://www.archive.org/stream/execut...4virg_djvu.txt

Louisa county, Va is where the saponi mound is.

http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1...latt_river.htm

Here is a document listing Saponi by name and matches the names in the last link.

http://www.aventfamily.org/taveltr.htm


This all matches the 1970's cherokee communties of the south document as well.

It was not till the late 1970's that the haliwa Saponi every changed their name to Saponi, was not till MUCH later the occaneechi Saponi added Saponi to their name, and the indians of person county after failing to be able to use the cherokee name they a few years ago added saponi. So where was those 3 group's all this time. They also got their state recognigtion under a different name, they did not get state rec with the name Saponi, they added Saponi AFTER state recognigtion.


Now timmy timmy timmy, Still waiting on at least one document. Come on man, you made all these insults, and claimed those 3 Saponi groups are the REAL Saponi and the ohio band of saponi is the fakes, come on, I brought documents, now it is time for you to back up your claims. Don't say it unless you can back it up.

Everyone is counting on you man, your supposed to have came here to disprove me on stuff, come on, you have got to have at least one document to support your claims. I brought documents to the table, you have to bring at least something if you are going to disprove me.
Can you read? I mean really?

No one is counting on me. wow, you are so stuck on yourself.HAHAHAH

I'm a woman by the way and it is on my profile and you were told that 4 years ago too.HAHAHAHA You don't even know who you are talking to.

You bore me right now.

You twisted it, but I don't have anything to prove, you are the one posting all that crap.HAHAHAHAHA

Went from Cherokee's to how un-knowledgable you really are about states and tribes.LOL Nah, I never said they were real, but then are you even.HAHAHAHAHA Plastic, maybe? Or rubber? Keep bouncing back to the same boring thing. And still from one to another and still bitter with sour grapes.LOL When you grow up you might actually get somewhere, but not until then.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #262
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LMAO--again.

You flat out changed the story again.

In the one post you said Ned Bear was interviewed in the 1720's then you said it was 1672. Uh, do you even know when it was or the time frame. Could have been 1972, now that could be too. You don't seem to know since you keep changing it.HAHAHAHA

Still no State Tribes in OH and the Saponi's of OH are FAKE!!! A CLUB!!! NOT A TRIBE!!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:05 AM   #263
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You said that find a grave's info can not be relilable, well how about a 165 year old stone thats sitting right now in the old Sara/Cheraw town of rutherford, NC. The Sara tribe got incorpated into the Saponi at Fort Christianna in the 1720's. We carved our collins family Granville, NC family history into that stone.


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&PIpi=28124114


Still waiting on at least one document lol

Every tribe that came into contact with the Saponi picked up a member of the Collins family also.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
LMAO--again.

You flat out changed the story again.

In the one post you said Ned Bear was interviewed in the 1720's then you said it was 1672. Uh, do you even know when it was or the time frame. Could have been 1972, now that could be too. You don't seem to know since you keep changing it.HAHAHAHA

Still no State Tribes in OH and the Saponi's of OH are FAKE!!! A CLUB!!! NOT A TRIBE!!!!

I gave links to the actual documents. So don't try to play it off now that I came with the actual documents. the links is there.

Ned Bearskin is who they was going to for info. William Byrd has ned bearskin as well, William byrd is who talked with him in 1720. Ned Bearskin was the Saponi guide that the Virginia government would get to help them travel.

Laugh all you want, but I'm giving you links to the actual documents. And guess what, you can't disprove it.

Now again, show me one document that lists even one person in those state recognized Saponi as a Saponi. Those three groups are "self called" Saponi. They added that name AFER state recognigtion and after the late 1970's.

Where was those 3 groups in the mid 1970's when the cherokee communties of the south was wrote? Saponi sure as hell was not what any of them was calling themself. So Saponi was not handed down to them orally or thru documents. However thru documents and orally it was handed down to us.

So again, bring even one document to the table or move along.

Or shall I put the fork in your now and consider you done?

Just admit you do not have a single bit of proof those you call real saponi is real.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:14 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
You said that find a grave's info can not be relilable, well how about a 165 year old stone thats sitting right now in the old Sara/Cheraw town of rutherford, NC. The Sara tribe got incorpated into the Saponi at Fort Christianna in the 1720's. We carved our collins family Granville, NC family history into that stone.


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&PIpi=28124114


Still waiting on at least one document lol

Every tribe that came into contact with the Saponi picked up a member of the Collins family also.
You show one proving that the OH Saponi's are a tribe. You haven't. All you produced was about NC and VA.LOL

Dang, I sure wouldn't be putting that out there.

What document? You are twisting stuff again. When did you say the other Saponi tribes weren't State Recognized? So you are acting like a total fool. What document do you want, that the OH Saponi's are FAKE. How about a letter from the Attorney General's office stating that there are No Indian tribes in the state of OH. That exists, just have to find it and track it down. That's proof enough that you're wanting to join a CLUB!!!HAHAHAHA So who's real? What's real? I'll get that document.LOL

And you can't flippen read.LOL I said that findagrave wasn't all that. I said to use it as a guide, but that the info isn't always documented. Some is, not all of it is. Do you not realize what "possible" even means? You want everything etched in stone. DAng no wonder you are so bitter, life isn't like that and nothing is a sure thing.LOL I really feel sorry for you if you think it is.

But the OH Saponi's are FAKE!!! a CLUB!!! And I will get that document.LOL
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:15 AM   #266
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Here is a nice link of Tama-re.

This group is State recognized in Georgia. they claim they are creek indians and the state of georgia gave them state recognigtion under the name Creek's.

Yeah they appear to be real creek indians also huh, but they must be real since they are state recognized huh. Real creek's my butt lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqdneRhWm4
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:27 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Here is a nice link of Tama-re.

This group is State recognized in Georgia. they claim they are creek indians and the state of georgia gave them state recognigtion under the name Creek's.

Yeah they appear to be real creek indians also huh, but they must be real since they are state recognized huh. Real creek's my butt lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqdneRhWm4
Wow you really are Inane aren't you.

Who care's about GA. Do you live there? Are you going to join them? Then get over it. You are talking about a group in OH not GA. Which one? And then what makes them a "REal" tribe as you keep saying? One person's story in--uh 1672? or 1720? Oh heck it was on the moon wasn't it.HAHAHAHAHA So then who decides? The Tribes? Well, that group can't prove themselves back to a person who's Saponi, maybe one or two, but certainly not all of them. And they are NOT state recognizd, so they will never be Federally. So what are you looking for then? A club? You got it so what are you fight for? There's no treaty rights involved, so not a problem and no one will fight it. So join them and live out your days, but remember they allowed any part of Treaty rights. And they have not been around for many many years, they only started out with in this decade. So it took them 800 years to figure out that they had an NDN ancestor? Come on dude, use some common sense. A 2 year old could figure that one out.LOL
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:32 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
You show one proving that the OH Saponi's are a tribe. You haven't. All you produced was about NC and VA.LOL

Dang, I sure wouldn't be putting that out there.

What document? You are twisting stuff again. When did you say the other Saponi tribes weren't State Recognized? So you are acting like a total fool. What document do you want, that the OH Saponi's are FAKE. How about a letter from the Attorney General's office stating that there are No Indian tribes in the state of OH. That exists, just have to find it and track it down. That's proof enough that you're wanting to join a CLUB!!!HAHAHAHA So who's real? What's real? I'll get that document.LOL

And you can't flippen read.LOL I said that findagrave wasn't all that. I said to use it as a guide, but that the info isn't always documented. Some is, not all of it is. Do you not realize what "possible" even means? You want everything etched in stone. DAng no wonder you are so bitter, life isn't like that and nothing is a sure thing.LOL I really feel sorry for you if you think it is.

But the OH Saponi's are FAKE!!! a CLUB!!! And I will get that document.LOL

eteched in stone, kinda reminds me about my families' history....it is etched in stone, has been for 165 years, litterally lol


All the stuff I provied is that Ohio band of Saponi's family, and I showed you their family has been living in Ohio a really long time.

They are the Collins family.

Who exaclty do you think the Ohio band of Saponi is? Maybe you have not looked to see who the enrolled members are lol.

There cousins are up on newman's ridge in tennesse, and the Tennesse governor has called them a tribe since before tennesse was ever a state.

you want to see them before 1850 Ohio?

http://www.tennesseehistory.com/class/melungeon.htm

If you go up on newman's ridge right now you'll see them all up there to this day.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:45 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Wow you really are Inane aren't you.

Who care's about GA. Do you live there? Are you going to join them? Then get over it. You are talking about a group in OH not GA. Which one? And then what makes them a "REal" tribe as you keep saying? One person's story in--uh 1672? or 1720? Oh heck it was on the moon wasn't it.HAHAHAHAHA So then who decides? The Tribes? Well, that group can't prove themselves back to a person who's Saponi, maybe one or two, but certainly not all of them. And they are NOT state recognizd, so they will never be Federally. So what are you looking for then? A club? You got it so what are you fight for? There's no treaty rights involved, so not a problem and no one will fight it. So join them and live out your days, but remember they allowed any part of Treaty rights. And they have not been around for many many years, they only started out with in this decade. So it took them 800 years to figure out that they had an NDN ancestor? Come on dude, use some common sense. A 2 year old could figure that one out.LOL

took them 800 years to figure out they are indian??

I've given you docuemtns from the 1700's all the way up to today showing they have been proving their indian ancestry non stop since the 1700's. You can't sweep the records under the rug lol I've done proved links to everything. So nice try but not going to work.

You say, oh maybe 1 or 2 of them can prove indan ancesry. I've done given you documents to prove your lying there. and again I'll ask you, where is one document showing even one person out of everyone in those 3 state recognized Saponi tribes is Saponi. Come on I have been asking you all night.

Where is a document showing anyone in the 3 groups you call REAL Saponi listed as Saponi?

Where is it, they could not provide it either.

In fact records says the Saponi moved out of the granville, nc area the same time the Collins family moved out of Granville, NC. After the collins moved there was never any more records of Saponi in granville, nc area.

In fact the historical Saponi had portugesse living in their tribes, what happened to these 3 tribe's portugesse people?

We sure had portugesse people with us up on newman's ridge. Historical Saponi had a oral history of Portugesse people, why do those 3 state recognized tribes have not one oral history of the portugesse?

oh yeah....where is the document?
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:49 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
eteched in stone, kinda reminds me about my families' history....it is etched in stone, has been for 165 years, litterally lol


All the stuff I provied is that Ohio band of Saponi's family, and I showed you their family has been living in Ohio a really long time.

They are the Collins family.

Who exaclty do you think the Ohio band of Saponi is? Maybe you have not looked to see who the enrolled members are lol.

There cousins are up on newman's ridge in tennesse, and the Tennesse governor has called them a tribe since before tennesse was ever a state.

you want to see them before 1850 Ohio?

http://www.tennesseehistory.com/class/melungeon.htm

If you go up on newman's ridge right now you'll see them all up there to this day.
Oh my gosh you really don't get it. "A really long time".HAHAHA That's too funny. No you said they moved in in 1850, one family not a whole tribe. Then you went on to mutter some jibborish about the Shawnee and the 1700's and then mentioned a Ned Bear and some story from either 1720 or 1672, you gave both dates on here and it's documented.LOL But no proof of the Saponi's in OH. A Jefferies mentioned in a Court case as being NDN, okay but it doesn't list his tribe or that they were in OH.

So what about the TN Govenor. You are putting too much into other's and not the one you are so focused on. If TN recognizes them then go get State Recognized in TN. But OH does NOT recognize them at all.

Collins is a European name, unless you say that the Saponi didn't have NDN names after the 1700's. So just 'cause it's the same name doesn't mean it's the same line, that's the point.LOL You don't seem to be getting that and DNA isn't going to prove that either. Now you are mentioning Newman's in TN. Collins in OH, but you are saying that you are joining the OH Saponi's who are NOT recognized by the state of OH, it doesn't matter what the Govenor of TN says. If they are recognized in TN, then go there. Does the Queen of England tell the president who to recognize as a US citizen? Well? You are not using any common sense, just "I want, so it is what I want no matter what.' Now that's spoiled. And it's not accurate either. And yes, the OH Saponi's are FAKE. I met them, many of them.

Enrolled members? OH oh oh, are these rolls kept at someone's house in a book of "membership" that you pay for every year?

CLUB!!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:59 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Oh my gosh you really don't get it. "A really long time".HAHAHA That's too funny. No you said they moved in in 1850, one family not a whole tribe. Then you went on to mutter some jibborish about the Shawnee and the 1700's and then mentioned a Ned Bear and some story from either 1720 or 1672, you gave both dates on here and it's documented.LOL But no proof of the Saponi's in OH. A Jefferies mentioned in a Court case as being NDN, okay but it doesn't list his tribe or that they were in OH.

So what about the TN Govenor. You are putting too much into other's and not the one you are so focused on. If TN recognizes them then go get State Recognized in TN. But OH does NOT recognize them at all.

Collins is a European name, unless you say that the Saponi didn't have NDN names after the 1700's. So just 'cause it's the same name doesn't mean it's the same line, that's the point.LOL You don't seem to be getting that and DNA isn't going to prove that either. Now you are mentioning Newman's in TN. Collins in OH, but you are saying that you are joining the OH Saponi's who are NOT recognized by the state of OH, it doesn't matter what the Govenor of TN says. If they are recognized in TN, then go there. Does the Queen of England tell the president who to recognize as a US citizen? Well? You are not using any common sense, just "I want, so it is what I want no matter what.' Now that's spoiled. And it's not accurate either. And yes, the OH Saponi's are FAKE. I met them, many of them.

Enrolled members? OH oh oh, are these rolls kept at someone's house in a book of "membership" that you pay for every year?

CLUB!!!!
Actually the Saponi did NOT have indian names after 1720. All the siouans after 1720 took on other names. In the 1720's fort christianna was built, this was the Indian boarding school, the children was put there as hostages to keep the tribtory tribes in line. The kids was taught english, given english clothes, taught how to live among the English, and for names they was told to take on names of people they felt was important to them. The teacher and preacher was Charles Griffin, one of the Documented Saponi took his name. Some took the name of Traders. Col John Collins is who saved Saponi Sauno, Sauno was captured by the french's tribultory indians and taken into canada for 2 years, col collins saved him and gave him a pass to get back home in Virginia at fort Christianna. If any of us got caught traveling outside our area without a pass we could be killed or sold into slavery, it states so on our treaty with the government. This is also why cate collins was sent to the mattamuskeet area reservation and held as a "indian" slave.

Several Tuscarora's was being sold as slaves in Barbadoes for traveling without passes. A large chunk of the Iroquis, siouans, and Algonkians was sent to barbadoes as slaves. I do have actual court records in virginia proving this.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
took them 800 years to figure out they are indian??

I've given you docuemtns from the 1700's all the way up to today showing they have been proving their indian ancestry non stop since the 1700's. You can't sweep the records under the rug lol I've done proved links to everything. So nice try but not going to work.

You say, oh maybe 1 or 2 of them can prove indan ancesry. I've done given you documents to prove your lying there. and again I'll ask you, where is one document showing even one person out of everyone in those 3 state recognized Saponi tribes is Saponi. Come on I have been asking you all night.

Where is a document showing anyone in the 3 groups you call REAL Saponi listed as Saponi?

Where is it, they could not provide it either.

In fact records says the Saponi moved out of the granville, nc area the same time the Collins family moved out of Granville, NC. After the collins moved there was never any more records of Saponi in granville, nc area.

In fact the historical Saponi had portugesse living in their tribes, what happened to these 3 tribe's portugesse people?

We sure had portugesse people with us up on newman's ridge. Historical Saponi had a oral history of Portugesse people, why do those 3 state recognized tribes have not one oral history of the portugesse?

oh yeah....where is the document?
You can ask all you want, We are talking about the OH Saponi's. And there's none of the ones from NC or VA in here, so you can do what you want.

No you are only showing your's not anyone else's. And that's one person, YOU. Not the other's. I've met them remember. And still, the court case on shows that Jefferies was NDN, but doesn't say what Tribe he belonged to or even where they were from. Just being NDN doesn't mean there's a tribe right there in the area. Shoot there's a lot of NDN's in OH, but they are enrolled through other states. That's the point, you are missing the whole point. Just because an NDN lives in a state does NOT make a tribe and so that's bunk and FAKE.

Yeah, 800 years to figure it out. Why didn't they claim it before? They are in the Southern part of OH, I forget the county that they meet in--meetings. But it was not known through the history of OH that a "tribe" was there. Just like that "Sun Valley Cherokee Village" it's not real. It's FAKE!!!
You didn't prove all the members were Saponi, that's crap and you lied, stop calling someone a liar when you keep doing that. You twisted the story of the date, doesn't prove a thing, you are the one who said you proved all the members. 500 people, I don't think so.

So only one group has that history. And the other 3 don't. Hmmm oh I know you are going with the "Secret tribe of Saponi's" who hide out from the trail of tears like the "Secret tribe of cherokee's (pick any state).LOL One out of 4, nope now I'm really not buying it. They are state Recognized and there are federal records at the NAtional Archives about them as well, but none on the ones in OH. Nope, OH are Fakes, CLUB.

The NAtional arcives has the documents and that's good enough for me!!!! I don't research Saponi's. But I know Fake tribes, that's for sure!!! And the OH Saponi's are FAKE!! 500 so called members--they're FAKE!!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:05 AM   #273
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Actually the Saponi did NOT have indian names after 1720. All the siouans after 1720 took on other names. In the 1720's fort christianna was built, this was the Indian boarding school, the children was put there as hostages to keep the tribtory tribes in line. The kids was taught english, given english clothes, taught how to live among the English, and for names they was told to take on names of people they felt was important to them. The teacher and preacher was Charles Griffin, one of the Documented Saponi took his name. Some took the name of Traders. Col John Collins is who saved Saponi Sauno, Sauno was captured by the french's tribultory indians and taken into canada for 2 years, col collins saved him and gave him a pass to get back home in Virginia at fort Christianna. If any of us got caught traveling outside our area without a pass we could be killed or sold into slavery, it states so on our treaty with the government. This is also why cate collins was sent to the mattamuskeet area reservation and held as a "indian" slave.

Several Tuscarora's was being sold as slaves in Barbadoes for traveling without passes. A large chunk of the Iroquis, siouans, and Algonkians was sent to barbadoes as slaves. I do have actual court records in virginia proving this.
Again, That's VA not OH. You are jumping from one state to another. OH is still FAKES!!! Not a TRIBE!!! All the documentation shows VA and NC, nothing for OH other then that one story from 1720 or 1672. That's it. So no, OH are FAKES!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:09 AM   #274
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:09 AM   #275
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I have a few questions for you ECSN.

In all your research did you come across any family connections to any of the tribes you claim you have ancestors of folks that today, are still enrolled members? Did you find one single fourth cousin-twice removed who is still federally enrolled?

I ask this because in an earlier post Josiah commented upon that no matter where he goes within the Cherokee people he has relatives. We all do. I can go anywhere in the territories of my people and find a cousin who will share a common ancestor with me. I even have relatives who are Metis because of choices their ancestors made but nontheless, I have common kinfolk with them. Where are yours?

And yes, we have all heard the stories from people like you that your entire family left/hid/ran away to avoid the relocation. But not to find one single relative that decided to take his/her family to be relocated seems odd. Especially when entire families/groups pop up a century later.

Now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're actually are even connected to these people you claim are your ancestors even though you change your name as the mood suits you...

Oh and as for your comment on Haida tattooing.. you shouldn't speak of things you know nothing about. It just makes you look even more pathetic than you already do.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:13 AM   #276
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Hey where's mine?LOL

I probably would have thrown it earlier.HAHAHAHA Well, you know.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:22 AM   #277
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Oh my gosh you really don't get it. "A really long time".HAHAHA That's too funny. No you said they moved in in 1850, one family not a whole tribe. Then you went on to mutter some jibborish about the Shawnee and the 1700's and then mentioned a Ned Bear and some story from either 1720 or 1672, you gave both dates on here and it's documented.LOL But no proof of the Saponi's in OH. A Jefferies mentioned in a Court case as being NDN, okay but it doesn't list his tribe or that they were in OH.

So what about the TN Govenor. You are putting too much into other's and not the one you are so focused on. If TN recognizes them then go get State Recognized in TN. But OH does NOT recognize them at all.

Collins is a European name, unless you say that the Saponi didn't have NDN names after the 1700's. So just 'cause it's the same name doesn't mean it's the same line, that's the point.LOL You don't seem to be getting that and DNA isn't going to prove that either. Now you are mentioning Newman's in TN. Collins in OH, but you are saying that you are joining the OH Saponi's who are NOT recognized by the state of OH, it doesn't matter what the Govenor of TN says. If they are recognized in TN, then go there. Does the Queen of England tell the president who to recognize as a US citizen? Well? You are not using any common sense, just "I want, so it is what I want no matter what.' Now that's spoiled. And it's not accurate either. And yes, the OH Saponi's are FAKE. I met them, many of them.

Enrolled members? OH oh oh, are these rolls kept at someone's house in a book of "membership" that you pay for every year?

CLUB!!!!

Timmy, where is the document?

I've still been waiting all night, you keep saying Ohio Saponi is fake when that was already proved a lie. So the bal is in your court, you say the 3 saponi in nc is the real saponi, so show the document...just one document. Or else you just proved the ones you call real is actually not real saponi and the ones you called fake is the real ones.

Like I said, it's time for put up or shut up. Your bluff card has been called. Nuff said. If you can't provide the document then it will show nothing else you say can be believed.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:31 AM   #278
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Timmy, where is the document?

I've still been waiting all night, you keep saying Ohio Saponi is fake when that was already proved a lie. So the bal is in your court, you say the 3 saponi in nc is the real saponi, so show the document...just one document. Or else you just proved the ones you call real is actually not real saponi and the ones you called fake is the real ones.

Like I said, it's time for put up or shut up. Your bluff card has been called. Nuff said. If you can't provide the document then it will show nothing else you say can be believed.
NO YOU HAVEN'T proven at all that the OH Saponi "Tribe" is not FAKE. You haven't proven anything other then a Jefferies guy was living in OH and Said in court to be NDN, that's not the group who claims to be a Tribe. You are so mistaken about that. If you don't know what constitutes proof, then you need to stop trying to claim something. The OH Saponi's are NOT a Tribe!!! They are not Recognized by the State of OH. The Attorney General's office flat out state that there are NO Tribes in the state of OH. It doesn't matter what you come up with from the 1800's. Unless you are going to take it to the state and get them to change it, the they are NOT a tribe. Just a bunch of people who may or may not have some NDN ancstry claiming to be a tribe. You have not proven one thing. Just that Saponi's exist and that one guy in OH was stated to have been NDN. Yeah, no one disputed that. The current claiming Tribe is NOT a tribe and you have NOT proven it any different. Where's your documentation that they are currently today a tribe in the state of OH? They are NOT.

And you already have the proof of the other tribes through the states them selves. TN may have a Saponi Tribe, but OH does NOT!!!! And everyone knows that the Shawnee once lived in OH but there is still NO Shawnee tribe in OH, just a group who claims to be, but they can't even prove it. Most of them claim to be Cherokee.LOL

So change the record. You didn't prove a thing, just that one guy. That's NOT a whole TRIBE or 500 people. You don't have a clue what you are talking about and it shows the more you post that you don't have a clue. The people are NOT a tribe and many, I don't believe are descendants.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:43 AM   #279
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Timmy, where is the document?

I've still been waiting all night, you keep saying Ohio Saponi is fake when that was already proved a lie. So the bal is in your court, you say the 3 saponi in nc is the real saponi, so show the document...just one document. Or else you just proved the ones you call real is actually not real saponi and the ones you called fake is the real ones.

Like I said, it's time for put up or shut up. Your bluff card has been called. Nuff said. If you can't provide the document then it will show nothing else you say can be believed.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:46 AM   #280
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I have a few questions for you ECSN.

In all your research did you come across any family connections to any of the tribes you claim you have ancestors of folks that today, are still enrolled members? Did you find one single fourth cousin-twice removed who is still federally enrolled?

I ask this because in an earlier post Josiah commented upon that no matter where he goes within the Cherokee people he has relatives. We all do. I can go anywhere in the territories of my people and find a cousin who will share a common ancestor with me. I even have relatives who are Metis because of choices their ancestors made but nontheless, I have common kinfolk with them. Where are yours?

And yes, we have all heard the stories from people like you that your entire family left/hid/ran away to avoid the relocation. But not to find one single relative that decided to take his/her family to be relocated seems odd. Especially when entire families/groups pop up a century later.

Now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're actually are even connected to these people you claim are your ancestors even though you change your name as the mood suits you...

Oh and as for your comment on Haida tattooing.. you shouldn't speak of things you know nothing about. It just makes you look even more pathetic than you already do.
Actually Tattoo's are somethng I know about and actually is one of the things I have spent alot of time studying. My friends have tattoo shops in Atlanta California and North Carolina. I used to design a ton of tattoo flash however tattoo flash does not pay much. Actually quite a few tribes believe tattoo's played a key role in the afterlife, where if your body was not marked with the right designs then you would not be recognized and your be sent to earth to wonder forever. When the missionaries came here they told the tribes that tattoo's was bad and the tradtion started dying out. I've even looked at some of john white's sketches from 1587 and alot of the designs o their bodies look to small to be body paint and they actually remind me of a tapped in style of inking, probally with fish bone and ashe. Now days we have access to plastic polymor based pigments which makes a very brighter and lucid coloring and almost no fadeing at all, creates more of a bump under the skin. Also red plastic polymore based pigment does not have the alergic reation like the red metal oxide based pigment.

So yeah Tattoo's is something I have knowledge of. I actually have had some ink tapped in myself.


--And yes, we have all heard the stories from people like you that your entire family left/hid/ran away to avoid the relocation. But not to find one single relative that decided to take his/her family to be relocated seems odd. Especially when entire families/groups pop up a century later.--

My people never ran or hid anywhere, I've done stated that numerous times, That whole story started by the eastern band of Cherokee, they are who started that myth. Any indians that stayed was fully allowed to, only they had to agree to follow State laws and to no longer fight with white settlers, You had to agree to give up "indian" law. I have actually seen zero evidence that the eastern band of cherokee hide or ran anywhere either since the location they was are sorrounded by white settlers.

As for my kinfolk, I have already stated that many times, All the tribes in NC, VA, SC, TEnn, Kentucky, Ohio, and some even in Maryland all are connected to each other thru family trees. In fact the collins family is in about 70 percent of the tribes in those areas.

There is even Collins who made it as far away as the Paiutes.

This is how we know who is real and who is fake, by names. Like if someone came to me and said they descend from a south eastern tribe, I'd ask which surnames they have and most of the time I know which group they come from. Take a look at cherokee communties of the south, it covers all the north carolina families. If a person's family not in that document and they claim north carolina native descent then they probally fake.
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