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Old 01-01-2012, 09:52 AM   #281
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Hey where's mine?LOL
.
You, Yaahl, Josiah,Subeeds, et al should take a pie break LOL:

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Old 01-01-2012, 09:59 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Actually Tattoo's are somethng I know about and actually is one of the things I have spent alot of time studying. My friends have tattoo shops in Atlanta California and North Carolina. I used to design a ton of tattoo flash however tattoo flash does not pay much. Actually quite a few tribes believe tattoo's played a key role in the afterlife, where if your body was not marked with the right designs then you would not be recognized and your be sent to earth to wonder forever. When the missionaries came here they told the tribes that tattoo's was bad and the tradtion started dying out. I've even looked at some of john white's sketches from 1587 and alot of the designs o their bodies look to small to be body paint and they actually remind me of a tapped in style of inking, probally with fish bone and ashe. Now days we have access to plastic polymor based pigments which makes a very brighter and lucid coloring and almost no fadeing at all, creates more of a bump under the skin. Also red plastic polymore based pigment does not have the alergic reation like the red metal oxide based pigment.

So yeah Tattoo's is something I have knowledge of. I actually have had some ink tapped in myself.


--And yes, we have all heard the stories from people like you that your entire family left/hid/ran away to avoid the relocation. But not to find one single relative that decided to take his/her family to be relocated seems odd. Especially when entire families/groups pop up a century later.--

My people never ran or hid anywhere, I've done stated that numerous times, That whole story started by the eastern band of Cherokee, they are who started that myth. Any indians that stayed was fully allowed to, only they had to agree to follow State laws and to no longer fight with white settlers, You had to agree to give up "indian" law. I have actually seen zero evidence that the eastern band of cherokee hide or ran anywhere either since the location they was are sorrounded by white settlers.

As for my kinfolk, I have already stated that many times, All the tribes in NC, VA, SC, TEnn, Kentucky, Ohio, and some even in Maryland all are connected to each other thru family trees. In fact the collins family is in about 70 percent of the tribes in those areas.

There is even Collins who made it as far away as the Paiutes.

This is how we know who is real and who is fake, by names. Like if someone came to me and said they descend from a south eastern tribe, I'd ask which surnames they have and most of the time I know which group they come from. Take a look at cherokee communties of the south, it covers all the north carolina families. If a person's family not in that document and they claim north carolina native descent then they probally fake.
Since you failed to answer the question I'll dumb it down for you. Do you have any relatives or a branch of your kin that are now federally enrolled? A simple yes or no will suffice.

As for your tattooing experience - you still should not speak of things you know nothing about. Are you Haida now? Stealing and copying designs that do not belong to you, your family, your clan or your house does not make you an expert. Making up designs and calling them Haida does not make them Haida. Only a Haida can make a design and call it Haida anyone else is making whatever their ethnic background is. Don't your own ancestors have their own designs you can exploit? If you want to keep calling line form tattoos Haida.. then all it makes you a culture vulture.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
You, Yaahl, Josiah,Subeeds, et al should take a pie break LOL:

Only if it's a saskatoon berry pie... hold the lactose stuff... lol
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I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #284
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You, Yaahl, Josiah,Subeeds, et al should take a pie break heres some more to have ...
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:04 AM   #285
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NO YOU HAVEN'T proven at all that the OH Saponi "Tribe" is not FAKE. You haven't proven anything other then a Jefferies guy was living in OH and Said in court to be NDN, that's not the group who claims to be a Tribe. You are so mistaken about that. If you don't know what constitutes proof, then you need to stop trying to claim something. The OH Saponi's are NOT a Tribe!!! They are not Recognized by the State of OH. The Attorney General's office flat out state that there are NO Tribes in the state of OH. It doesn't matter what you come up with from the 1800's. Unless you are going to take it to the state and get them to change it, the they are NOT a tribe. Just a bunch of people who may or may not have some NDN ancstry claiming to be a tribe. You have not proven one thing. Just that Saponi's exist and that one guy in OH was stated to have been NDN. Yeah, no one disputed that. The current claiming Tribe is NOT a tribe and you have NOT proven it any different. Where's your documentation that they are currently today a tribe in the state of OH? They are NOT.

And you already have the proof of the other tribes through the states them selves. TN may have a Saponi Tribe, but OH does NOT!!!! And everyone knows that the Shawnee once lived in OH but there is still NO Shawnee tribe in OH, just a group who claims to be, but they can't even prove it. Most of them claim to be Cherokee.LOL

So change the record. You didn't prove a thing, just that one guy. That's NOT a whole TRIBE or 500 people. You don't have a clue what you are talking about and it shows the more you post that you don't have a clue. The people are NOT a tribe and many, I don't believe are descendants.
Your defiently not looking at those links then lol What part do you not get that these are all the same family??

One guy? hahaha I posted stuff on alot of people thats all from the same family. You must of got bad grades in school if you don't know how to read the stuff on them links lol

ok...you see those little things withthe lines under the letters....those are what we call...liinnkksss....ok take your mouse and slowly move the arrow on your screen to them. Next click the left button on your mouse. This will do a magical thing, it will take you to whats called a website. Now these words do not come with audio, you will have to do what the older people had to do, it's called, reading.

Now here is something else, when you try to win a argument and call one thing fake and another real, you have to provide stuff to show why the one thing is fake and the other is real. Your missing that in your argument. So here is something we can do, we have this thing called google. you just type in www.google.com then you type in what you wish to search for. now if you can not find anything to show proof for what you call real, it then becomes what people in the real world refer to as, fake.

Hopefully I broke it down slow enough for you. Ok now use the google and come back when you have found some proof to support your "theory" that the 3 state recognized saponi are REAL Saponi.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:26 AM   #286
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Since you failed to answer the question I'll dumb it down for you. Do you have any relatives or a branch of your kin that are now federally enrolled? A simple yes or no will suffice.

As for your tattooing experience - you still should not speak of things you know nothing about. Are you Haida now? Stealing and copying designs that do not belong to you, your family, your clan or your house does not make you an expert. It makes you a culture vulture.
So now your saying anyone who gets a tattoo is haida lol
Actually Tattooing started in other countries before America, america actually aquired Tattooing much later than the rest of the world. The first tattoo was actually started in caveman times thru a burnt stick in a fire poking the human skin.

As for federally enrolled, this has been answered plenty of times, This is not canada and this is not mexico, this is the USA, only just a handful of tribes is federal, most of the federal tribes are all out west, mainly because they was being contacted much later. Another big reason there is barely anyfederal tribes on the east coast is because their land treaties was with England, the usa people fought and broke free from england thus it pretty much voided all land treaties these east coast tribes had. Only the ones who made land treaties with the non england ran government was able to aquire federal recognigtion. The oldest reservation in america is the Pamunkey who to this day live on that reservation yet they are only state recognized.

There is only one tribe in Nother carolina that is federal, none in Virginia, none in Georgia, none in Ohio, I think only one in South Carolina (the catawba), Alabama has one that I know of, it is like this all up the east coast in the USA. Some has aquired state recognigtion but all that really says is your a "heritage group" and legally you can't even sell art and crafts etc saying is was indian made. You can be full blood indian and still not be able to be recognized as indian if you came from a tribe that did a land treaty with england. So pretty much all the first tribes contacted lost right to their heritage and culture and even their race simply because the White and black citizens of the USA broke free from England. Our government refuses to acknowledge us for that fact. Which is why I among many others want to push for a seperate recognigtion for the non recognized native descendants so that we can still freely continue our heritage and culture. The federal groups are allowed to continue representing their tribes and ancestors so we should have that same right. Whats crazy is they actually used us to fight england to get that freedom they have. If it was not for us East coast tribes then england would still own the land here. But how do they repay us? By stealing our heritage and trying to get us to disown our ancestors. This is supposed to be the land of the free yet it is not for East coast native descendants.

People from other countries are allowed to come here and do their festivals, sel their art and crafts, allowed to freely represent all these other countries, but when it comes to us, nope we can't and we are the people originally here. This is my basis behind wanting to unite all non recognized descendants into one voice so that one day there will be a different recognigtion for us. We don't want land, do not want money, we just want the freedom or our heritage and culture without people harassing.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:44 AM   #287
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Shows what little you know, The Saponi left Ohio in 1200 ad after being invited to come live in virginia.

You might be interested to know the the ohio band of Saponi and the state recognized saponi of NC carry the same family trees.

I already stated they are not state recognized, no tribe in Ohio is state recognized duh, I already stated that lol.

Again you brought up the NC state recognized Saponi as being the REAL saponi.

I'll again direct you to Cherokee communties of the south written by a FEDERAL recognized Cherokee in the 1970's BEFORE those 3 tribes in nc took the Saponi name.

I also will add one of those state recognized Saponi tribes aka indians of Person county just a few years ago was claiming they was umm..cherokee. The Haliwa Saponi claim they are saponi yet claim their ancestors came off the Tuscarora reservation. Halifax and Warren county was the Tuscarora reservation not Saponi reservation.
The Occaneechi Saponi, Their ancestors claimed they was Catawba not saponi.

Not even one of the 3 tribes in NC has any of the austin family Enrolled yet the Ohio band of Saponi does.

Now what does this say...

Abstracts of the Minutes of the
Court of Pleas and Quarter
Sessions Rowan County,
North Carolina 1753-1762
II:72 19 April 1755
Esquires present: Jas Carter, Jno Handby, Alexr Osburn & Thos Potts. … Whereas John Auston a Saponia Indian and Mary a Susquhanah Indian and Thos a Cattaaba applied for a pass to the Cataba Nation being now on their Journey to conclude a Genl Peace with ye Catabas in behalf of the Sd Nation and also presented 3 Belts of Wampum to Sd Court by which the sd Treaty is to be concluded.

So you still want to Call Ohio band of Saponi huh. You might not want to get into that discussion.

Now before you go any further into calling the Ohio band of Saponi fake, reply with actual saponi documents stating ANY people of the 3 state recognized Saponi groups listed as a Saponi BEFORE the late 1970's. Since you can't, move along lol
The Occaneechi (also Occoneechee and Akenatzy) are Native Americans who lived primarily on a large, 4-mile (6.4 km) long Occoneechee Island and east of the confluence of the Dan and Roanoke Rivers, near current day Clarksville, Virginia in the 17th century.[2] They were Siouan-speaking, and thus related to the Saponi, Tutelo,[1] Eno and other Southeastern Siouan-language peoples living in the Piedmont region of present-day North Carolina and Virginia.

Eastern Siouan tribes also inhabited approximately half of South Carolina and parts of Georgia, West Virginia, and Ohio.[citation needed]

In 1676 the tribe was attacked by European settlers and decimated. Also under demographic pressure from European settlement and newly introduced infectious diseases, the Saponi and Tutelo came to live near the Occaneechi on adjacent islands. By 1714 the Occaneechi moved to join the Tutelo, Saponi, and other Siouan people living on a 36-square-mile (93 km2) reservation in current-day Brunswick County, Virginia. It included a fort called Christanna. The Siouan people had been drastically reduced to approximately 600 people. Fort Christanna was closed in 1717, after which there are few written references to the Occaneechi. Colonists recorded that they left the area in 1740 and migrated north for protection with the Iroquois.

During the 19th and 20th centuries, some remnant Siouan peoples gathered together and worked to retain their identity as Native Americans. Over the years, some married people of other ethnicities, but generally brought them within the tribe. In the late 20th century, they organized as the self-named Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation. In 2002 the tribe was formally recognized by the state of North Carolina. The members of the tribe live primarily in Alamance and Orange Counties.[3]
Contents
[hide]

1 Name
2 History
2.1 17th century
2.2 18th century
3 Archaeology
4 Recent history
5 Citations
6 References
7 External links

[edit] Name

The meaning and origin of the name Occaneechi is unknown. They have also historically been called the Achonechy, Aconechos, Akenatzy, Akenatzy's, Hockinechy, Occaneches, Occaanechy, Occhonechee, Occonacheans, Occoneechee, Ockanechees, Ockanigee, Okenechee, Acconeechy, Occaneeches, Ochineeches, and Ockinagee.[4]
[edit] History
[edit] 17th century

The Occaneechi were first written about in 1650, by English explorer Edward Bland.[5] He wrote that lived on the Trading Path that connected Virginia with the interior of North America. Their position on the Trading Path gave the Occaneechi the power to act as trading "middlemen" between Virginia and various tribes to the west. In 1673, Abraham Wood, a Virginian fur trader, sent James Needham and Gabriel Arthur into the southern Appalachian Mountains in an attempt to make direct contact with the Cherokee, thus bypassing the Occaneechi. The party did make contact with the Cherokee. It was not until the last decades of the 17th century, when South Carolina colonists established a strong relationship with the Cherokee and other interior tribes, that the Occaneechi role as trading middleman was undermined.[6]

In May 1676, the Occaneechi allied with Nathaniel Bacon and his British troops in a war with the Susquehannock; however, the British immediately turned on their allies and attacked three forts within the Occaneechi village. The British killed the Occaneechi's leader Posseclay, approximately one hundred men, as well as many women and children. A Susquehannock war party attacked Occoneechee Island in the summer of 1678.[7]
[edit] 18th century

In 1701 John Lawson visited the Occaneechi village, located on the Eno River near present day Hillsborough, North Carolina.[7] His written report plus modern archaeological research at the site give insight into a society undergoing rapid change. They also were working to continue traditional crafts and a way of life.

Historian Robert Beverley, Jr., in his History and Present State of Virginia (1705), wrote that the Occaneechi language was widely used as a lingua franca, "understood by the chief men of many nations, as Latin is in many parts of Europe" — even though, he says, the Occaneechi "have been but a small nation, ever since those parts were known to the English." Beverley said that the "priests and conjurers" of the other Virginia Indian tribes "perform their adorations and conjurations" in this general language, much "as the Catholics of all nations do their Mass in the Latin." Linguistic scholars believe that the Occaneechi spoke an Eastern Siouan dialect similar to Tutelo.

Virigina governor Alexander Spotswood mentioned the Occaneechi as being on of nine Native nations within Virginia in 1712.[8] Along with the "Stuckanok, Tottero, and Saponi," the Occaneechi signed a "Treaty of Peace" with the colony of Virginia in 1713. They moved to Fort Christanna in southeast Virginia. Occaneechi Town was almost entirely abandoned by 1713.

Fort Christanna was operated by the Virginia Company from 1714 to 1717. Its closure was apparently due to a lack of profits as an Indian trading center. Although several distinct groups of Siouan Indians lived at Fort Christanna, the English Virginians tended to refer to them simply as "Saponi" or "Fort Christanna Indians." After the closing of Fort Christanna in 1717, colonial records contain few references to the Occaneechi. Those references that do exist indicate a continued trade between Virginia colonists and the Saponi and Occaneechi.[6]

By 1720, after ongoing losses from warfare, the remnant bands of the Occaneechi, Saponi, and Stukanox, "who not finding themselves Separately Numberous, enough for their Defence, have agreed to unite in one Body, and all of them now go under the Name of the Sapponeys, as William Byrd II wrote.[9]

In 1727, a settler living near the Iroquoian Meherrin, in a region where some violence had broken out, wrote to the governor of Virginia about the events. He said the Meherrin denied attacking the Nottoway (another Iroquoian tribe). "[T]hey lay the whole blame upon the Occaneechy King and the Saponi Indians." This suggests that English settlers recognized a distinction between the Occaneechi and Saponi.[6]

In 1730 Virginia's House of Burgesses records noted an "Interpreter to the Saponi and Occaneechi Indians." This implied the existence of monoglot Occaneechi people. In 1730, many Saponi moved to live among the Catawba in South Carolina, but most returned to Virginia in 1733, along with some Cheraw Indians. After 1733 the Saponi appear to have fragmented into small groups and dispersed. Some apparently remained in the vicinity of Fort Christanna, which was noted in Virginia records by its Saponi name, Junkatapurse. After 1742 the settlement is no longer mentioned, but only a road called Junkatapurse.[6] In the 1740s, the Saponi migrated south to live with the Catawba. Governor Gooch of Virginia reported that the "Saponies and other petty nations associated with them ... are retired out of Virginia to the Cattawbas" during the years 1743-1747.[6]

Most of the remaining Saponi members were recorded as migrating north in 1740 for protection with the Iroquois. They mostly disappeared from the historical record in the Southeast. After the American Revolution, in which four of the Iroquois Six Nations had sided with the losing British, the majority of the Iroquois (and Saponi) went to Canada for resettlement. Descendants live mostly at the Six Nations of the Grand River First Nation reserve in Ontario. Traditional English-American histories typically describe the Saponi group of Indians as having left Virginia and North Carolina in the 18th century, either to join the Catawba or the Iroquois.

Starting in the middle of the 18th century, however, historic records note Saponi living in North Carolina. Some Saponi moved from Virginia to various places in North Carolina. There is some evidence that isolated Indians never left these areas of North Carolina and became consolidated with Saponi from Virginia.[citation needed]

In 1756, Moravian settlers living near present-day Winston-Salem reported an Indian palisaded "fort" settlement near the Haw River. The Moravians called the Indians "Cherokees", but it is more likely they were Sissipahau ("Saxapahaw") or another group related to the Occaneechi.[citation needed] This, along with various oral traditions, indicates Indians' living in a more or less traditional manner in North Carolina's Piedmont after such settlements supposedly vanished.[6]

In 1763, Lt. Governor Francis Fauquier of Virginia wrote a letter that included a description of the Indians of Virginia: "There are some of the Nottoways, Meherrins, Tuscaroras, and Saponys, who tho' they live in peace in the midst of us, lead in great measure the lives of wild Indians."[6] He contrasted these Indians with the Eastern Shore and Pamunkey Indians, whom he described as more assimilated to English ways. Thus, there are still indications of Saponi in Virginia during this period.
[edit] Archaeology

For years lay people and researchers have discovered thousands of artifacts from "Occoneechee Town," "Saponi Town" and "Tutelo Town" on islands in the Roanoke River near Clarksville, Virginia. Prior to the flooding of the islands in 1952, this was one of the richest archeology sites on the East Coast. Since 1983 the Research Laboratories of Anthropology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have been uncovering another "Occaneechi Town", a late 17th and early 18th century Occaneechi village on the Eno River near present-day Hillsborough, North Carolina.[6]
[edit] Recent history

In 1995, a community centered around Pleasant Grove, North Carolina claimed descent from the Fort Christanna confederation of Occannechi, Saponi, and Tutelo began hosting an annual powwow and organized under the name Occaneechi Band of Saponi.[4] They are recognized by the state of North Carolina and primarily reside in Alamance County.[10]

The contemporary Occaneechi and Haliwa-Saponi tribes are mostly descendants of multiracial people who settled on the frontier of Virginia and North Carolina as early as the mid-to late 18th century. They migrated and acquired land as did European or English neighbors from the Tidewater areas. 20th century researchers such as Paul Heinegg and Dr. Virginia Easley De Marce have conducted extensive research in colonial records: including court records, deeds of land, wills, etc. to trace back members of families in this area who were listed in the 1790 census. They have found 80 percent of those listed as free people of color, a category that then included Indians, could in fact be traced back to African Americans free in Virginia during the colonial period. Most of the free people of color were descended from relationships between white women and African men, often both indentured servants, during the 17th and 18th century when racial boundaries between groups were not as hardened as they later became. Some of the African men were slaves freed as early as the 17th century, as was John Jeffries, a "Negro man" belonging to Captain Robert Randall and freed in 1698 in Surry County, Virginia. Paul Heinegg believes he was the great-grandfather of Jacob Jeffries who settled in Orange County, North Carolina by 1790, but there is no documentary evidence for this.[11]

In frontier areas, such peoples of mixed race sometimes identified themselves (or others did) as Indian, or Portuguese, or Spanish, to explain darker skin color or physical features not typical of northern Europeans. In some areas they may also have intermarried with a few American Indians. People in the mixed-race groups associated with different social groups over the decades: some marrying into the white community, some marrying other multiracial people and identifying as Indian, and others marrying into the black community.[11]

The loss of freedoms in 1835 after the Nat Turner Rebellion affected all free people of color in North Carolina, who lost their ability to vote and other civil rights. The aftermath of the Civil War put more pressure on multiracial communities, known as "Old Issues", meaning free before the Civil War. While public schools were established for the first time under Reconstruction, whites insisted they be segregated. Free people of color were expected to send their children to schools with the children of freedmen. Some, such as ancestors of the current Lumbee tribe, sought another route in the late 19th century and gained official state recognition as Indians in the 1880s. They established an Indian school.

Many people who claimed Indian descent were described, either by themselves or others, as "Cherokee." The issues of ethnic identity are complex, and cannot be strictly tied to race. There were certainly numerous mixed-race unions during the colonial and antebellum years. The Seminoles of Florida are an example of a tribe formed in the 18th and 19th century, and including numerous European-American and African-American members. People of mixed-race have numerous ethnic ancestries to draw from.

As 20th century census policies changes, dramatic fluctuations appear in the number of American Indians recorded. In 1910 and 1930, efforts were made to list people of mixed ancestry as Indian. In 1960, the census asked individuals to classify their own race. Before 1960, the census worker's classified a person's race by their observation. Typically in 1970, a person of mixed ancestry was asked to choice one race, and if doubt existed, the race of the father was chosen. Being listed on tribal rolls or being recognized as an Indian by their community influenced people's racial designation. By 1990, an estimated 80% of all Indian people have mixed ancestries.[12]

Only in the middle-to-late 20th century have the North Carolina and Virginia Piedmont Indian descendants officially reclaimed historical names such as Saponi and Occaneechi. A limited amount of information exists tying the present tribe to its Siouan ancestors.

The Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation, now numbering 700, are the eighth and smallest tribe officially recognized by the state of North Carolina, receiving official status in 2002. The tribe presently owns 25 acres (100,000 m2) of land in NE Alamance County, North Carolina, where it is developing a tribal center.
[edit] Citations

^ a b Demallie 286
^ Demallie 287
^ Lerch 333
^ a b Demallie 298
^ Demallie 291
^ a b c d e f g h Hazel 1991
^ a b Demallie 292
^ Demallie 293
^ Demallie 295
^ Lerch 328
^ a b Paul Heinegg, Free African Americans of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland and Delaware, 2005
^ Lerch 332

[edit] References

Demallie, Raymond J. "Tutelo and Neighboring Groups." Sturtevant, William C., general editor and Raymond D. Fogelson, volume editor. Handbook of North American Indians: Southeast. Volume 14. Washington DC: Smithsonian Institution, 2004. ISBN 0-16-072300-0.
Hazel, Forest (October 1991). Mathis, Mark A. ed. "Occaneechi-Saponi Descendants in the North Carolina Piedmont: The Texas Community" (PDF). Southern Indian Studies (The North Carolina Archaeological Society, University of North Carolina) 40. Retrieved 25 March 2009.
Lerch, Patricia B. "Indians of the Carolinas Since 1900." Sturtevant, William C., general editor and Raymond D. Fogelson, volume editor. Handbook of North American Indians: Southeast. Volume 14. Washington DC: Smithsonian Institution, 2004. ISBN 0-16-072300-0.



This was some nice reading.

Wasn't your Uncle John the chief of the Eno Occaneechi Tribe in Mebane?
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:53 AM   #288
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On a funny note...anybody ever take BC powders for headaches?

I was reading the sources and came across Dr Pat Lerch. Pat was a very nice lady. Quiet, humble, just a great woman.

So one night I'm in my office at the tribal building (where I was stealing the people's money). I had a headache, so I was taking a packet of BC (actually, it was two packs). As I was walking out my office, Dr. Lerch was walking in to visit me. I wiped across my nose and there was this white residue on my hand. I look up at Dr. Lerch and got sooo embarrassed! I apologized a thousand times and explained to her what happened. Last time I saw Dr. Lerch, about 20 years ago, we laughed about that moment.

OK...back to the arguing!
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:22 AM   #289
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Damn. Where did everybody go????
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:30 AM   #290
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i went looking for a funny crack head joke did not find any funny's ones, also made me think probably, there are so few funny's jokes on crack
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:38 AM   #291
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MMMMM, pie.

you see, HistoryStudent isn't here to listen or learn, it's here with an agenda. Almost like it's been planning this since the last time it was here on powwows.com.

It is only here to push it's agenda, its not listening, because it doesn't want to. So it is worthless to try to prove anything, and this should simply stop.

As noted in this thread and others, this individual has issues and a limited understanding. Please do not respond to it anymore, that is only what it wants. If we stop playing with it, it will go away.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:54 AM   #292
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Thanks JD interesting reading
I find it fascinating and a common story through out the Southeast and for that Matter in Missouri and Arkansas
In the Saponi they have a long road ahead

I have far more experience with groups that claim Cherokee ancestry. We deal with the ones based in Missouri and Arkansas all the time. But in the case of these groups we are not talking about 300 or 400 year old documents, we are only talking about 150 years. We have written records from many sources to cross check.
We have the National archives and we have the LDS that have scanned the original documents for all to read.
More recently the full Dawes packets are available on line so that we all can read through these documents on line instead of taking a trip to Texas to read them in person. I have read many a story of Lost Cherokees and today the descendants are trying to use those documents to prove they applied thus making them legit...

One Person does not make a tribe and if I heard once I have heard it a thousand times from Timmy Tiger: You have to cross check that person to make sure that is indeed your ancestor. Its like what she was saying last night about Find a Grave website its a great tool but... It can be inaccurate so you have to cross check the information. Its Great for Birth and Death Dates but for "stories". Well those you have to take with a grain of salt.
Research does not stop at the first name you find!
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
MMMMM, pie.

you see, HistoryStudent isn't here to listen or learn, it's here with an agenda. Almost like it's been planning this since the last time it was here on powwows.com.

It is only here to push it's agenda, its not listening, because it doesn't want to. So it is worthless to try to prove anything, and this should simply stop.

As noted in this thread and others, this individual has issues and a limited understanding. Please do not respond to it anymore, that is only what it wants. If we stop playing with it, it will go away.
I know I know
Here is the thing though, its not really for the ECSN's of the world its for the other thousands that come to this website and read his stuff and then reads straight stuff and goes ohhhh I see! Its for them...
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:25 PM   #294
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If we stop playing with it, it will go away.
I've told myself that about a few women in my time: it didn't always work...
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #295
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Damn. Where did everybody go????
LOL--I had to get some sleep, you know. I was up all night trying to reason with...um...this person.LOL

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Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
MMMMM, pie.

you see, HistoryStudent isn't here to listen or learn, it's here with an agenda. Almost like it's been planning this since the last time it was here on powwows.com.

It is only here to push it's agenda, its not listening, because it doesn't want to. So it is worthless to try to prove anything, and this should simply stop.

As noted in this thread and others, this individual has issues and a limited understanding. Please do not respond to it anymore, that is only what it wants. If we stop playing with it, it will go away.
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I've told myself that about a few women in my time: it didn't always work...

Iowa Boy you are right, but here Zeke sure does hit the mark here.HAHAHAHA This guy won't stop at this thread, he will follow and go into other's spewing the same thing and stuff. Like I said: He followed Black Bear the last time.

Josiah has it right too, it's not just about this guy, those of us who have been in this thread, the other's with him and can just basically read know that he really is just off and has no clue and is just trying to push his agenda. But there are other's out there that if we don't flat out show how this agenda is wacked, they might fall for it or try to same thing and then we have a whole slew of them coming at us. One at a time is hard and bad enough, try 15-20. Now that's totally insane and drive ya nuts.LOL And I have and do say it "One person does NOT make a tribe" Neither does one ancestor. And there are NO State tribes in the state of OH, so anyone claiming to be a state Tribe are FAKE!!! No question about it. So if someone is legitimately Indian, then why do they have to claim that they are something they are not? And go under a 501c3 if they are not trying to get away with something? Because they are not.

And JD that really was good reading. I've seen the pic of the guy before, he posted it before or someone sent me to another website he was on and I saw it. He doesn't look mixed race to me, but I could be wrong. But it was really good reading. And no where do they mention OH in that article, it was all NC and VA, um isn't that where the other's are? Not in OH.

And Yaahl, we'll take care of you, don't worry about it.LOL

Pies good.HAHAHAHA And I'm barely awake.HAHAHAHA
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:41 PM   #296
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Only if it's a saskatoon berry pie... hold the lactose stuff... lol
Funny thing, the photo credit said it was taken at the 'Stoon coffee shop in Moosejaw

Dem's goot berries!
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:52 PM   #297
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best thread of 2011
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:04 PM   #298
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So now your saying anyone who gets a tattoo is haida lol
Actually Tattooing started in other countries before America, america actually aquired Tattooing much later than the rest of the world. The first tattoo was actually started in caveman times thru a burnt stick in a fire poking the human skin.

As for federally enrolled, this has been answered plenty of times, This is not canada and this is not mexico, this is the USA, only just a handful of tribes is federal, most of the federal tribes are all out west, mainly because they was being contacted much later. Another big reason there is barely anyfederal tribes on the east coast is because their land treaties was with England, the usa people fought and broke free from england thus it pretty much voided all land treaties these east coast tribes had. Only the ones who made land treaties with the non england ran government was able to aquire federal recognigtion. The oldest reservation in america is the Pamunkey who to this day live on that reservation yet they are only state recognized.

There is only one tribe in Nother carolina that is federal, none in Virginia, none in Georgia, none in Ohio, I think only one in South Carolina (the catawba), Alabama has one that I know of, it is like this all up the east coast in the USA. Some has aquired state recognigtion but all that really says is your a "heritage group" and legally you can't even sell art and crafts etc saying is was indian made. You can be full blood indian and still not be able to be recognized as indian if you came from a tribe that did a land treaty with england. So pretty much all the first tribes contacted lost right to their heritage and culture and even their race simply because the White and black citizens of the USA broke free from England. Our government refuses to acknowledge us for that fact. Which is why I among many others want to push for a seperate recognigtion for the non recognized native descendants so that we can still freely continue our heritage and culture. The federal groups are allowed to continue representing their tribes and ancestors so we should have that same right. Whats crazy is they actually used us to fight england to get that freedom they have. If it was not for us East coast tribes then england would still own the land here. But how do they repay us? By stealing our heritage and trying to get us to disown our ancestors. This is supposed to be the land of the free yet it is not for East coast native descendants.

People from other countries are allowed to come here and do their festivals, sel their art and crafts, allowed to freely represent all these other countries, but when it comes to us, nope we can't and we are the people originally here. This is my basis behind wanting to unite all non recognized descendants into one voice so that one day there will be a different recognigtion for us. We don't want land, do not want money, we just want the freedom or our heritage and culture without people harassing.
Once again I see the wheel turning but the hamster appears to be dead....

Quote:
From post #211 Next time your around the people who has been trying to bring the Haida tattoo traditions back further, remember to repeat what you said.
You brought up the point of Haida Tattooing. If you're not a Haida creating the tattoo, then it can't be a Haida tattoo... it's simply a rip off of a Haida line form drawing or at the least a design by the non-Haida person. So alluding to you are working on bringing back Haida Tattooing is erroneous unless you happen to be a Haida. As far as your own experiences with doing inking, if you ink with the same lack of attention to detail as you write, I pity your customers as they may have issues with simple words spelled correctly by you. (wondering to myself how many of this clown's clients have "Your My Love" etc on their arm/chest when they really wanted, "You're My Love".)

Now, you do realize that line form drawing is not exclusive of just the Haida? Lumping all of the line form drawing into one group and calling it Haida is just bad research on your part. I tried to warn you that you were speaking about things you didn't know about... but you insisted on running your mouth off. Out of the approximately 185 FNs who use line drawing as their unique art form, Haida is just one of many. I can tell the difference between the Tribe's works.. I doubt you can.

I've also read what inkers like to say about "Tribal/Haida" ink designs.. biggest load of crap ever spun just to sell a tat. You have proven over and over again that you simply regurgitate other people's work with little or no comprehension by yourself as to what you are repeating. Your tattooing speech is another example of your inability to understand what you have read but you'll brazen through it anyway and keep spinning that wheel with the dead hamster.

So reading your over inflated response to the question "do you have any family/kin that are federally enrolled anywhere"... is a resounding - No. So you are setting out that in all of your family connections not one single person that you are kin with relocated to OK? You see, it's that lack of detail that causes people reading your cut and pastes to question the accuracy of it. But hey, this is your fantasy not ours.

Hey JD, I was away for a while because hubby and I went ice fishing... I caught 5 nice size brookies. Getting them ready to go into the smoker.

TT, thanks for looking out for my little issue with milk products... LOL

Now about that pie?
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:20 PM   #299
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Funny thing, the photo credit said it was taken at the 'Stoon coffee shop in Moosejaw

Dem's goot berries!
You had to go there LOL... it's taken me 8 years to get Moosejaw out of my system...lol I loved it there... home of the Snowbirds.
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:25 PM   #300
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best thread of 2011
At least the Fastest Thread!
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