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Old 01-01-2012, 05:39 PM   #301
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:40 PM   #302
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Once again I see the wheel turning but the hamster appears to be dead....



You brought up the point of Haida Tattooing. If you're not a Haida creating the tattoo, then it can't be a Haida tattoo... it's simply a rip off of a Haida line form drawing or at the least a design by the non-Haida person. So alluding to you are working on bringing back Haida Tattooing is erroneous unless you happen to be a Haida. As far as your own experiences with doing inking, if you ink with the same lack of attention to detail as you write, I pity your customers as they may have issues with simple words spelled correctly by you. (wondering to myself how many of this clown's clients have "Your My Love" etc on their arm/chest when they really wanted, "You're My Love".)

Now, you do realize that line form drawing is not exclusive of just the Haida? Lumping all of the line form drawing into one group and calling it Haida is just bad research on your part. I tried to warn you that you were speaking about things you didn't know about... but you insisted on running your mouth off. Out of the approximately 185 FNs who use line drawing as their unique art form, Haida is just one of many. I can tell the difference between the Tribe's works.. I doubt you can.

I've also read what inkers like to say about "Tribal/Haida" ink designs.. biggest load of crap ever spun just to sell a tat. You have proven over and over again that you simply regurgitate other people's work with little or no comprehension by yourself as to what you are repeating. Your tattooing speech is another example of your inability to understand what you have read but you'll brazen through it anyway and keep spinning that wheel with the dead hamster.

So reading your over inflated response to the question "do you have any family/kin that are federally enrolled anywhere"... is a resounding - No. So you are setting out that in all of your family connections not one single person that you are kin with relocated to OK? You see, it's that lack of detail that causes people reading your cut and pastes to question the accuracy of it. But hey, this is your fantasy not ours.

Hey JD, I was away for a while because hubby and I went ice fishing... I caught 5 nice size brookies. Getting them ready to go into the smoker.

TT, thanks for looking out for my little issue with milk products... LOL

Now about that pie?
Who ever said I was doing haida tattoo's?? I said I have had tapped in tat's done, I more than welcome you to show where I said I have haida tattoos. I encourage you to find it lol

For the Ohio tribes, no one has even said there was any state tribes in Ohio. In fact I have said numerous times ther eis no state tribes in Ohio. I again encourage you to find where I said Ohio had state tribes lol


I'm stil waiting on that documentation.


Oh Timmy, I guess your now claiming you've spent around 50 years or more in native american studies right? And have college degrees in Native American studies. Your probally going to say you have taught Native american studies in college classrooms also. Because I have given you Robert K thomas' research document on North Carolina's native communties and his research on the Saponi.

He has spent over 50 years in native american studies, he has college degrees in it, he has taught native american studies in college class rooms, he has been on archiology digs, he is Federally recognized by the USA government, and the list goes on and on. And he states the Granville, Nc collins is the REAL Saponi. He also stated those 3 groups in NC now calling themself Saponi was NOT Saponi. He actually labeled them something else.

His research is passed out in colleges through USA and Canada colleges for native american studies to this day. There is even a statue dedicated to him in Canada for his Native American work.

The American indian movement was a big supporter of Robert K thomas as well.

In the 1970's he went to all the native descent families in NC and the only one he said was Saponi was the Granville, NC collins.

But now you, a person no where near his level of education on USA and Canada native american histories, cultures, etc try and discredit him and say the people he called the REAL saponi are the fake Saponi? Robert K Thomas even stated the Saponi left the Granville, Nc area in the mid to late 1700's.

So on the Saponi subject timmy, you failed terribly.

Now like I said, either come up with a document or anything else you say can not be believeable. You are no where near the educated level as Robert K Thomas.

point made, case closed.

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:41 PM   #303
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The Occaneechi (also Occoneechee and Akenatzy) are Native Americans who lived primarily on a large, 4-mile (6.4 km) long Occoneechee Island and east of the confluence of the Dan and Roanoke Rivers, near current day Clarksville, Virginia in the 17th century.[2] They were Siouan-speaking, and thus related to the Saponi, Tutelo,[1] Eno and other Southeastern Siouan-language peoples living in the Piedmont region of present-day North Carolina and Virginia.

Eastern Siouan tribes also inhabited approximately half of South Carolina and parts of Georgia, West Virginia, and Ohio.[citation needed]

In 1676 the tribe was attacked by European settlers and decimated. Also under demographic pressure from European settlement and newly introduced infectious diseases, the Saponi and Tutelo came to live near the Occaneechi on adjacent islands. By 1714 the Occaneechi moved to join the Tutelo, Saponi, and other Siouan people living on a 36-square-mile (93 km2) reservation in current-day Brunswick County, Virginia. It included a fort called Christanna. The Siouan people had been drastically reduced to approximately 600 people. Fort Christanna was closed in 1717, after which there are few written references to the Occaneechi. Colonists recorded that they left the area in 1740 and migrated north for protection with the Iroquois.

During the 19th and 20th centuries, some remnant Siouan peoples gathered together and worked to retain their identity as Native Americans. Over the years, some married people of other ethnicities, but generally brought them within the tribe. In the late 20th century, they organized as the self-named Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation. In 2002 the tribe was formally recognized by the state of North Carolina. The members of the tribe live primarily in Alamance and Orange Counties.[3]
Contents
[hide]

1 Name
2 History
2.1 17th century
2.2 18th century
3 Archaeology
4 Recent history
5 Citations
6 References
7 External links

[edit] Name

The meaning and origin of the name Occaneechi is unknown. They have also historically been called the Achonechy, Aconechos, Akenatzy, Akenatzy's, Hockinechy, Occaneches, Occaanechy, Occhonechee, Occonacheans, Occoneechee, Ockanechees, Ockanigee, Okenechee, Acconeechy, Occaneeches, Ochineeches, and Ockinagee.[4]
[edit] History
[edit] 17th century

The Occaneechi were first written about in 1650, by English explorer Edward Bland.[5] He wrote that lived on the Trading Path that connected Virginia with the interior of North America. Their position on the Trading Path gave the Occaneechi the power to act as trading "middlemen" between Virginia and various tribes to the west. In 1673, Abraham Wood, a Virginian fur trader, sent James Needham and Gabriel Arthur into the southern Appalachian Mountains in an attempt to make direct contact with the Cherokee, thus bypassing the Occaneechi. The party did make contact with the Cherokee. It was not until the last decades of the 17th century, when South Carolina colonists established a strong relationship with the Cherokee and other interior tribes, that the Occaneechi role as trading middleman was undermined.[6]

In May 1676, the Occaneechi allied with Nathaniel Bacon and his British troops in a war with the Susquehannock; however, the British immediately turned on their allies and attacked three forts within the Occaneechi village. The British killed the Occaneechi's leader Posseclay, approximately one hundred men, as well as many women and children. A Susquehannock war party attacked Occoneechee Island in the summer of 1678.[7]
[edit] 18th century

In 1701 John Lawson visited the Occaneechi village, located on the Eno River near present day Hillsborough, North Carolina.[7] His written report plus modern archaeological research at the site give insight into a society undergoing rapid change. They also were working to continue traditional crafts and a way of life.

Historian Robert Beverley, Jr., in his History and Present State of Virginia (1705), wrote that the Occaneechi language was widely used as a lingua franca, "understood by the chief men of many nations, as Latin is in many parts of Europe" — even though, he says, the Occaneechi "have been but a small nation, ever since those parts were known to the English." Beverley said that the "priests and conjurers" of the other Virginia Indian tribes "perform their adorations and conjurations" in this general language, much "as the Catholics of all nations do their Mass in the Latin." Linguistic scholars believe that the Occaneechi spoke an Eastern Siouan dialect similar to Tutelo.

Virigina governor Alexander Spotswood mentioned the Occaneechi as being on of nine Native nations within Virginia in 1712.[8] Along with the "Stuckanok, Tottero, and Saponi," the Occaneechi signed a "Treaty of Peace" with the colony of Virginia in 1713. They moved to Fort Christanna in southeast Virginia. Occaneechi Town was almost entirely abandoned by 1713.

Fort Christanna was operated by the Virginia Company from 1714 to 1717. Its closure was apparently due to a lack of profits as an Indian trading center. Although several distinct groups of Siouan Indians lived at Fort Christanna, the English Virginians tended to refer to them simply as "Saponi" or "Fort Christanna Indians." After the closing of Fort Christanna in 1717, colonial records contain few references to the Occaneechi. Those references that do exist indicate a continued trade between Virginia colonists and the Saponi and Occaneechi.[6]

By 1720, after ongoing losses from warfare, the remnant bands of the Occaneechi, Saponi, and Stukanox, "who not finding themselves Separately Numberous, enough for their Defence, have agreed to unite in one Body, and all of them now go under the Name of the Sapponeys, as William Byrd II wrote.[9]

In 1727, a settler living near the Iroquoian Meherrin, in a region where some violence had broken out, wrote to the governor of Virginia about the events. He said the Meherrin denied attacking the Nottoway (another Iroquoian tribe). "[T]hey lay the whole blame upon the Occaneechy King and the Saponi Indians." This suggests that English settlers recognized a distinction between the Occaneechi and Saponi.[6]

In 1730 Virginia's House of Burgesses records noted an "Interpreter to the Saponi and Occaneechi Indians." This implied the existence of monoglot Occaneechi people. In 1730, many Saponi moved to live among the Catawba in South Carolina, but most returned to Virginia in 1733, along with some Cheraw Indians. After 1733 the Saponi appear to have fragmented into small groups and dispersed. Some apparently remained in the vicinity of Fort Christanna, which was noted in Virginia records by its Saponi name, Junkatapurse. After 1742 the settlement is no longer mentioned, but only a road called Junkatapurse.[6] In the 1740s, the Saponi migrated south to live with the Catawba. Governor Gooch of Virginia reported that the "Saponies and other petty nations associated with them ... are retired out of Virginia to the Cattawbas" during the years 1743-1747.[6]

Most of the remaining Saponi members were recorded as migrating north in 1740 for protection with the Iroquois. They mostly disappeared from the historical record in the Southeast. After the American Revolution, in which four of the Iroquois Six Nations had sided with the losing British, the majority of the Iroquois (and Saponi) went to Canada for resettlement. Descendants live mostly at the Six Nations of the Grand River First Nation reserve in Ontario. Traditional English-American histories typically describe the Saponi group of Indians as having left Virginia and North Carolina in the 18th century, either to join the Catawba or the Iroquois.

Starting in the middle of the 18th century, however, historic records note Saponi living in North Carolina. Some Saponi moved from Virginia to various places in North Carolina. There is some evidence that isolated Indians never left these areas of North Carolina and became consolidated with Saponi from Virginia.[citation needed]

In 1756, Moravian settlers living near present-day Winston-Salem reported an Indian palisaded "fort" settlement near the Haw River. The Moravians called the Indians "Cherokees", but it is more likely they were Sissipahau ("Saxapahaw") or another group related to the Occaneechi.[citation needed] This, along with various oral traditions, indicates Indians' living in a more or less traditional manner in North Carolina's Piedmont after such settlements supposedly vanished.[6]

In 1763, Lt. Governor Francis Fauquier of Virginia wrote a letter that included a description of the Indians of Virginia: "There are some of the Nottoways, Meherrins, Tuscaroras, and Saponys, who tho' they live in peace in the midst of us, lead in great measure the lives of wild Indians."[6] He contrasted these Indians with the Eastern Shore and Pamunkey Indians, whom he described as more assimilated to English ways. Thus, there are still indications of Saponi in Virginia during this period.
[edit] Archaeology

For years lay people and researchers have discovered thousands of artifacts from "Occoneechee Town," "Saponi Town" and "Tutelo Town" on islands in the Roanoke River near Clarksville, Virginia. Prior to the flooding of the islands in 1952, this was one of the richest archeology sites on the East Coast. Since 1983 the Research Laboratories of Anthropology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have been uncovering another "Occaneechi Town", a late 17th and early 18th century Occaneechi village on the Eno River near present-day Hillsborough, North Carolina.[6]
[edit] Recent history

In 1995, a community centered around Pleasant Grove, North Carolina claimed descent from the Fort Christanna confederation of Occannechi, Saponi, and Tutelo began hosting an annual powwow and organized under the name Occaneechi Band of Saponi.[4] They are recognized by the state of North Carolina and primarily reside in Alamance County.[10]

The contemporary Occaneechi and Haliwa-Saponi tribes are mostly descendants of multiracial people who settled on the frontier of Virginia and North Carolina as early as the mid-to late 18th century. They migrated and acquired land as did European or English neighbors from the Tidewater areas. 20th century researchers such as Paul Heinegg and Dr. Virginia Easley De Marce have conducted extensive research in colonial records: including court records, deeds of land, wills, etc. to trace back members of families in this area who were listed in the 1790 census. They have found 80 percent of those listed as free people of color, a category that then included Indians, could in fact be traced back to African Americans free in Virginia during the colonial period. Most of the free people of color were descended from relationships between white women and African men, often both indentured servants, during the 17th and 18th century when racial boundaries between groups were not as hardened as they later became. Some of the African men were slaves freed as early as the 17th century, as was John Jeffries, a "Negro man" belonging to Captain Robert Randall and freed in 1698 in Surry County, Virginia. Paul Heinegg believes he was the great-grandfather of Jacob Jeffries who settled in Orange County, North Carolina by 1790, but there is no documentary evidence for this.[11]

In frontier areas, such peoples of mixed race sometimes identified themselves (or others did) as Indian, or Portuguese, or Spanish, to explain darker skin color or physical features not typical of northern Europeans. In some areas they may also have intermarried with a few American Indians. People in the mixed-race groups associated with different social groups over the decades: some marrying into the white community, some marrying other multiracial people and identifying as Indian, and others marrying into the black community.[11]

The loss of freedoms in 1835 after the Nat Turner Rebellion affected all free people of color in North Carolina, who lost their ability to vote and other civil rights. The aftermath of the Civil War put more pressure on multiracial communities, known as "Old Issues", meaning free before the Civil War. While public schools were established for the first time under Reconstruction, whites insisted they be segregated. Free people of color were expected to send their children to schools with the children of freedmen. Some, such as ancestors of the current Lumbee tribe, sought another route in the late 19th century and gained official state recognition as Indians in the 1880s. They established an Indian school.

Many people who claimed Indian descent were described, either by themselves or others, as "Cherokee." The issues of ethnic identity are complex, and cannot be strictly tied to race. There were certainly numerous mixed-race unions during the colonial and antebellum years. The Seminoles of Florida are an example of a tribe formed in the 18th and 19th century, and including numerous European-American and African-American members. People of mixed-race have numerous ethnic ancestries to draw from.

As 20th century census policies changes, dramatic fluctuations appear in the number of American Indians recorded. In 1910 and 1930, efforts were made to list people of mixed ancestry as Indian. In 1960, the census asked individuals to classify their own race. Before 1960, the census worker's classified a person's race by their observation. Typically in 1970, a person of mixed ancestry was asked to choice one race, and if doubt existed, the race of the father was chosen. Being listed on tribal rolls or being recognized as an Indian by their community influenced people's racial designation. By 1990, an estimated 80% of all Indian people have mixed ancestries.[12]

Only in the middle-to-late 20th century have the North Carolina and Virginia Piedmont Indian descendants officially reclaimed historical names such as Saponi and Occaneechi. A limited amount of information exists tying the present tribe to its Siouan ancestors.

The Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation, now numbering 700, are the eighth and smallest tribe officially recognized by the state of North Carolina, receiving official status in 2002. The tribe presently owns 25 acres (100,000 m2) of land in NE Alamance County, North Carolina, where it is developing a tribal center.
[edit] Citations

^ a b Demallie 286
^ Demallie 287
^ Lerch 333
^ a b Demallie 298
^ Demallie 291
^ a b c d e f g h Hazel 1991
^ a b Demallie 292
^ Demallie 293
^ Demallie 295
^ Lerch 328
^ a b Paul Heinegg, Free African Americans of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland and Delaware, 2005
^ Lerch 332

[edit] References

Demallie, Raymond J. "Tutelo and Neighboring Groups." Sturtevant, William C., general editor and Raymond D. Fogelson, volume editor. Handbook of North American Indians: Southeast. Volume 14. Washington DC: Smithsonian Institution, 2004. ISBN 0-16-072300-0.
Hazel, Forest (October 1991). Mathis, Mark A. ed. "Occaneechi-Saponi Descendants in the North Carolina Piedmont: The Texas Community" (PDF). Southern Indian Studies (The North Carolina Archaeological Society, University of North Carolina) 40. Retrieved 25 March 2009.
Lerch, Patricia B. "Indians of the Carolinas Since 1900." Sturtevant, William C., general editor and Raymond D. Fogelson, volume editor. Handbook of North American Indians: Southeast. Volume 14. Washington DC: Smithsonian Institution, 2004. ISBN 0-16-072300-0.



This was some nice reading.

Wasn't your Uncle John the chief of the Eno Occaneechi Tribe in Mebane?
I brought this back up for your ecbn because you didn't respond. Maybe you missed it. Can you please respond?

And for those of us who haven't learned yet. Here is how you think you won the argument.

Point made. Case closed.

Don't forget this, class!
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:54 PM   #304
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Who ever said I was doing haida tattoo's?? I said I have had tapped in tat's done, I more than welcome you to show where I said I have haida tattoos. I encourage you to find it lol

For the Ohio tribes, no one has even said there was any state tribes in Ohio. In fact I have said numerous times ther eis no state tribes in Ohio. I again encourage you to find where I said Ohio had state tribes lol


I'm stil waiting on that documentation.


Oh Timmy, I guess your now claiming you've spent around 50 years or more in native american studies right? And have college degrees in Native American studies. Your probally going to say you have taught Native american studies in college classrooms also. Because I have given you Robert K thomas' research document on North Carolina's native communties and his research on the Saponi.

He has spent over 50 years in native american studies, he has college degrees in it, he has taught native american studies in college class rooms, he has been on archiology digs, he is Federally recognized by the USA government, and the list goes on and on. And he states the Granville, Nc collins is the REAL Saponi. He also stated those 3 groups in NC now calling themself Saponi was NOT Saponi. He actually labeled them something else.

His research is passed out in colleges through USA and Canada colleges for native american studies to this day. There is even a statue dedicated to him in Canada for his Native American work.

The American indian movement was a big supporter of Robert K thomas as well.

In the 1970's he went to all the native descent families in NC and the only one he said was Saponi was the Granville, NC collins.

But now you, a person no where near his level of education on USA and Canada native american histories, cultures, etc try and discredit him and say the people he called the REAL saponi are the fake Saponi? Robert K Thomas even stated the Saponi left the Granville, Nc area in the mid to late 1700's.

So on the Saponi subject timmy, you failed terribly.

Now like I said, either come up with a document or anything else you say can not be believeable. You are no where near the educated level as Robert K Thomas.

point made, case closed.
what a load of crap!
Are you kidding me?????
The document was posted this morning
You dont read posts and then say the same thing over and over and over and over and over...
I would hate to debate you in real time
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:07 PM   #305
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I guess you have not read alot of Saponi historical records huh.

Ned Bear skin in the 1720's while at Fort christianna, Ned Bearskin was a Saponi, he was asked about the history of the saponi people. Ned stated they came from the North West into virginia 400 years before. He did not say west did not say north, he said north west. Ohio is the only location for this, unless you never seen a map. Now let's see, simple math 1700 take away 400 is...ummm..say it with me...1200.

Now, we know the Saponi people Built most of the Mounds in virginia. and guess what is in Ohio, Mounds. DUH.

You kinda feel stupid now huh.

At least think before you reply.

Oh yeah I'm still waiting on you to show me one document with those REAL Saponi's family on it.
Ummm...west of the Mississippi, where the heathen Natives live...

1700 minus 400...is...1300!!!

Now wonder they took you money!!!
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:15 PM   #306
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I brought this back up for your ecbn because you didn't respond. Maybe you missed it. Can you please respond?

And for those of us who haven't learned yet. Here is how you think you won the argument.

Point made. Case closed.

Don't forget this, class!
Gotcha... can we add to also never cite your primary and secondary sources either? ... I so wanna not to have to cite sources and expect my colleagues to accept my word as the final authority.

Mind you I prefer the French version... Point de fait, affaire classée! Or if you like Latin... sounds way more well.. legal...lol

Point facta est clausus!

ETA, Why when he says that, do I feel like I'm listening to a bad rendition of a Perry Mason rerun. I keep waiting for the "Ta da" music as well.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:26 PM   #307
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I done answered it numerous times. I done stated I'm from the Jeffries family, you have already been told I'm from Chief John Black feather Jeffries same family line. You havealso done been told that the only thing I would have to do to get enrolled in the state recognized Occaneechi saponi tribe would be for me to just move to hillsboro,NC. Now how many more times do you have to be told this??

Now you state your in Georgia, you just said you ask questions you know the answer to, you have done been told my grandmother is Senoya teal who was of the creek indians of villa rica ga and coweta county ga. I've done provided you with this information. You being in south georgia should know the state recognized tribes there only require you show indian ancestry in georgia to enroll.

You have done been told I'm also a direct line descendant of John basse, you have done been told the entire state recognized tribe of nanesmond in virginia is descendants of John basse.

Come on now. You have also done been told the ohio band of saponi has already offered me enrollment as well.

You have already been told all this.
Will you give some more information on the 'ohio band of saponi'....of which you can be an enrolled member. What are you enrolling into and what does it take?

Since you done told us.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #308
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Ummm, I thought this thread was supposed to be about the Federal Cherokee stuff that you were so bent on the other week? This has turned into a thread about the Saponi and a few other misc. tribes. I feel like this has turned into the play room of a small child, one second the empty TV box is a racecar, then it's a rocket ship, then it's a house, and then it's a jail for the bank robbing stuffed alligator and his malicious gang of teddy bears....
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:45 PM   #309
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Ummm, I thought this thread was supposed to be about the Federal Cherokee stuff that you were so bent on the other week? This has turned into a thread about the Saponi and a few other misc. tribes. I feel like this has turned into the play room of a small child, one second the empty TV box is a racecar, then it's a rocket ship, then it's a house, and then it's a jail for the bank robbing stuffed alligator and his malicious gang of teddy bears....
The alligator swears he's innocent! Point made, case closed!
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:48 PM   #310
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Ummm, I thought this thread was supposed to be about the Federal Cherokee stuff that you were so bent on the other week? This has turned into a thread about the Saponi and a few other misc. tribes. I feel like this has turned into the play room of a small child, one second the empty TV box is a racecar, then it's a rocket ship, then it's a house, and then it's a jail for the bank robbing stuffed alligator and his malicious gang of teddy bears....
Actually its about how the Federal Cherokee (All 3) are Oppressing the Non Recognized tribes sticking our nose where it don't belong dissing on elders of these groups and just being mean and ogre like... Its just recently morphed into a discussion about the Saponi
I did a nice side by side comparison about the Southern Cherokee in Oklahoma and the ones in Kentucky
Doing some research on the Lost Cherokee of Arkansas Missouri and I even found a Branch in Jersey apparently we were there also...
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:53 PM   #311
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Now I have scanned through this thread, all 4 pages that I missed being away for the New Years holiday, as I normally do as part of my "beat", like a cop. Again I will say thanks ESCN for attempting to give us some of your sources, but there is still a lot of room for improvement.

One thing I noticed that makes no sense to me what so ever is the mentioning that a member of one tribe has no right to come into a new state and call people out for trying forming tribes that have no recognition. Are you trying to say that someone like @Josiah cannot come into Philly and tell the people who started the "Southeastern Pennsylvania Cherokee Confederation" to stop it, that they have no right to form their own tribe? This of course is separate from whether or not these people have bloodlines or not.

Case in point, in PA there are several instances where people got together and attempted to form a derivative of the Delaware (Lenape) tribe. Barely any of them could prove that they had a drop of Delaware blood and those that did couldn't meet the requirements for enrollment into either the tribe as they exist in Oklahoma or Canada. The federal government and the Delaware from OK have told them to stop and threatened legal action against them if they continue. There are only like 3 people that I know of here that can actually prove their bloodline to the Delaware and one of them moved here from Oklahoma.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:57 PM   #312
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Actually its about how the Federal Cherokee (All 3) are Oppressing the Non Recognized tribes sticking our nose where it don't belong dissing on elders of these groups and just being mean and ogre like... Its just recently morphed into a discussion about the Saponi
I did a nice side by side comparison about the Southern Cherokee in Oklahoma and the ones in Kentucky
Doing some research on the Lost Cherokee of Arkansas Missouri and I even found a Branch in Jersey apparently we were there also...
Sorry, I guess I meant it in the context of the fact that the switch in subject happened pages ago and not days ago. My ooops.

Not just in NJ, apparently there is a whole Confederacy of Cherokee in Philly, even though it's easily 500 miles from the original homelands.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:00 PM   #313
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The alligator swears he's innocent! Point made, case closed!
But the alligator was found guilty by a jury of his peers - the barrel of monkeys, little green army men, 2 cabbage patch dolls and the beanie babies. Now in all fairness to the gator, the judge was a dirty stuffed ape with one arm held together with duct tape.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:06 PM   #314
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You are no where near the educated level as Robert K Thomas..
I am.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:07 PM   #315
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But the alligator was found guilty by a jury of his peers - the barrel of monkeys, little green army men, 2 cabbage patch dolls and the beanie babies. Now in all fairness to the gator, the judge was a dirty stuffed ape with one arm held together with duct tape.
We're appealing the conviction and sentence. We have pics of the judge and his banana... no fruit should end up like that. Clearly, the closed case was jury-rigged from the beginning. That poor banana.

All together now... ah one and ah two and ah three....Point made. Case closed!
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:11 PM   #316
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They just found out the honorable D.A. Mr. Pufnstuff murdered in the kitchen, tossed behind the dog dishes like a piece of trash! I guarantee you that they are going to blame it on the dog, but I suspect foul play. The forensics team is conducting an investigation.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:17 PM   #317
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Sorry, I guess I meant it in the context of the fact that the switch in subject happened pages ago and not days ago. My ooops.

Not just in NJ, apparently there is a whole Confederacy of Cherokee in Philly, even though it's easily 500 miles from the original homelands.
Nah, Toolbox, that was just his rouse to everyone. The thread may have been about that but he has no real nowledge of Cherokee's and he proves that every time he opens his mouth. His real agenda was to come in, blast the Cherokee thread and then make a plea (again, 4 years later) how he's really Saponi but the Actual State Recognized tribes that are in the homelands don't recognize him so he's going to another state and he was using this thread and site to boast it up and make it something that it wasn't. That's what his purpose was really all about and so when it started to come up, yeah we jumped on it.HAHAHAHA Like we did 4 years ago.

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But the alligator was found guilty by a jury of his peers - the barrel of monkeys, little green army men, 2 cabbage patch dolls and the beanie babies. Now in all fairness to the gator, the judge was a dirty stuffed ape with one arm held together with duct tape.
Hey, I wanna be a beanie babie.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:23 PM   #318
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They just found out the honorable D.A. Mr. Pufnstuff murdered in the kitchen, tossed behind the dog dishes like a piece of trash! I guarantee you that they are going to blame it on the dog, but I suspect foul play. The forensics team is conducting an investigation.
OH no not Mr. Pufnstuff, not him. He was such a good man.

I was with my kids, just have to check with them and see where that was at the time. But it wasn't me.LOL
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #319
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http://www.bia.gov/idc/groups/xofa/d.../idc013623.pdf

I do alot of reading and ran across something that is so common with these Heritage groups
The get mad with each other or a portion of them get mad and they split off and form there own Group

Now this James Jeffryes Dude in 2002 petitioned the BIA for Federal Recognition for the Tutelo-Saponi of BeaverCreek, Ohio

But in 2011 he is the Chief of the Saponi Nation of Ohio based in Xenia Ohio, They filed for recognition in 1998.
Both are still awaiting recognition

http://www.saponi-ohio.org/8022.html
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:46 PM   #320
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http://www.bia.gov/idc/groups/xofa/d.../idc013623.pdf

I do alot of reading and ran across something that is so common with these Heritage groups
The get mad with each other or a portion of them get mad and they split off and form there own Group

Now this James Jeffryes Dude in 2002 petitioned the BIA for Federal Recognition for the Tutelo-Saponi of BeaverCreek, Ohio

But in 2011 he is the Chief of the Saponi Nation of Ohio based in Xenia Ohio, They filed for recognition in 1998.
Both are still awaiting recognition

http://www.saponi-ohio.org/8022.html
There are 2 of them? Oh brother.

Well, I met one of them, based on where I was, I'm thinking it was the Xenia group. I doubt it was the Beaver Creek Group. But I do know the man who did a lot of Reearch on the Saponi's and has written several books, his wife told me that he really is but that most of them are not. I don't know. I only know that that group aren't State recognized. Honestly they won't get it. If the URB can't get it and everyone knows that Shawnee's were in OH and that's a fact, but everyone also know's that the URB members are NOT Shawnee. That's not to say that there might not be one or two with some kind of ancestor, but the majority of them claim Cherokee. Oh but the story gets really interesting after that 'cause almost all the ones I've heard claim that they come through Tecumseh's daughter who married a Cherokee or something like that. All the ones I've ever talked to or seen their info on line, that's the story.

See there Tecumseh didn't die in Battle. He died watching out for all them daughter's he had.HAHAHAHAHAHA
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