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Old 01-01-2012, 10:31 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
http://www.bia.gov/idc/groups/xofa/d.../idc013623.pdf

I do alot of reading and ran across something that is so common with these Heritage groups
The get mad with each other or a portion of them get mad and they split off and form there own Group

Now this James Jeffryes Dude in 2002 petitioned the BIA for Federal Recognition for the Tutelo-Saponi of BeaverCreek, Ohio

But in 2011 he is the Chief of the Saponi Nation of Ohio based in Xenia Ohio, They filed for recognition in 1998.
Both are still awaiting recognition

http://www.saponi-ohio.org/8022.html
1830 INDIAN REMOVAL

The Indian Removal Act became law. This law made it legal to remove Native Americans from their land in the southeast. Indians were rounded up by soldiers and forced to march long distances to reservations. Many Indians died on these journeys.

Because of the Indian Removal Act, many Native Americans began to refer to themselves as "colored" or "mulatto" to avoid removal. Therefore, the former Saponi were forced to take English names. The descendents of the Ohio River Valley Sioux are now called Blackfoot Band of the Saponi Nation of Ohio, Inc.

Can we insert 'white' and 'Cherokee' here and go read about the Kentucky group and the white Ohio group and the Pennsylvania group, blah, blah, blah.

Blackfoot Band?

Point made. Case closed.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:25 AM   #322
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Dang, last night it was only 11 pages. Now this thread has grown to 17?! Gotta lot of late night reading to do....
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:29 AM   #323
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I just read about them and their history and all I can say is WOW.

Supposedly they were back in OH in the 1800's, so then where were they? Uh, no they weren't afraid of being rounded up because they were NDN 'cause there were other's in OH on the Federal Census listed as such, but they were Cherokee and other tribes. But then this group applied in 1998? Okay from 1800- 1998 is still 198 years, where were they then? And from 1200-1998 is 798 years, again where were they? And where are the NDN agent records for them? That would tell all right there.

And yes that is the group I met, about 5 years ago.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:31 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
1830 INDIAN REMOVAL

The Indian Removal Act became law. This law made it legal to remove Native Americans from their land in the southeast. Indians were rounded up by soldiers and forced to march long distances to reservations. Many Indians died on these journeys.

Because of the Indian Removal Act, many Native Americans began to refer to themselves as "colored" or "mulatto" to avoid removal. Therefore, the former Saponi were forced to take English names. The descendents of the Ohio River Valley Sioux are now called Blackfoot Band of the Saponi Nation of Ohio, Inc.

Can we insert 'white' and 'Cherokee' here and go read about the Kentucky group and the white Ohio group and the Pennsylvania group, blah, blah, blah.

Blackfoot Band?

Point made. Case closed.
Blackfoot band? Maybe thats why a lot of people who claim Cherokee ancestry also claim to be "Blackfoot". Probably mistaking the actual Blackfoot(feet) tribe with Blackfoot Band of Saponi's. Seeing as Saponis and Cherokees are neighboring tribes, or were. Then it be more plausible...

But by no means am I saying that there aren't actual Natives/people who are both Cherokee and Blackfeet/Pikuni/Blood. I'm just stating that there are so many people that always claim to be descended from Cherokee/Blackfoot. An by "so many people" I mean wannabes/new-agers or some people call them "generokees".
But its always Cherokee and Blackfoot!! How many Blackfeet got relocated or decided to move to SE U.S.A and fall in love with a Cherokee?? Especially in the 1800's??

Think that they and their parents, grandparents(etc), are probably just mistaking one well renowned tribe(Blackfoot/feet), with a band of/from a lil or less-known tribe(Blackfoot Band of Saponi).
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:28 AM   #325
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Quote:
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The American indian movement was a big supporter of Robert K thomas as well.
Well, there goes ANY credibility...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
You are no where near the educated level as Robert K Thomas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy
I am.
Yes, you are. (I'm not an education/intellectual slouch, either.)

I doubt ECSN even understands what he reads. Obviously no actual analysis is conducted.

May I have more pie?
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:31 AM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Well, there goes ANY credibility...





Yes, you are. (I'm not an education/intellectual slouch, either.)

I doubt ECSN even understands what he reads. Obviously no actual analysis is conducted.

May I have more pie?
This has been my contention since he came on here in 2008.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:37 AM   #327
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This has been my contention since he came on here in 2008.
Yep
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:03 PM   #328
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Cake and pie... So many choices.... I prefer cake to pie. So cake!! Chocolate cake!!

Choice made, mouth open!!
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:08 PM   #329
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Cake and pie... So many choices.... I prefer cake to pie. So cake!! Chocolate cake!!

Choice made, mouth open!!
Thats...

Point made. Case closed!
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #330
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Having had a quick peek at the scholarship of this Robert Thomas chap from the points ECSN made about his contributions us Canucks, I didn't really find a heap his material used in any of the Native Journals we produce up here.. I searched back to about 1980. I found one article by him in the Indigenous Portal that we use for FN research run by U of Sask. I understand this fellow died in about 1991. Which would have put him present around Canadian Indian politics after Meech Lake and Bill C31 and before Oka, RCAP and the Charlottetown Accord.

What I did find however, was a site created by his colleagues and friends to amass his collected scholarship. Seems a bit strange that a private group would be doing that rather than the educational institutions where he researched and taught. I also found a few articles about him by folks that have very strong ties with large religious organizations who appeared to have contracted this Thomas fellow to do some "seminars" in northern communities. Had this Thomas fellow lived into the late 90s and beyond, he would have found his old supporters in churches such as the Anglicans, embroiled in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission over the residential schools they operated. It appears that this Thomas' "contributions" to Canada were restricted to a few seminars for some churches up in the NWT. I haven't located any scholarship by him in this regard that is specific to Canada - Just an article by MacKenzie about their trip up north.

In my work with the repatriation of artifacts and ancestor remains, I read a ton of papers by anthropologists, historians and museum staff. I can't say this fellow's work topped my list of readings - up here in Canada at least. That doesn't mean he didn't contribute something in a scholarly manner just that he isn't as well known as ECSN would like us to believe. We have other scholars that are now the "go to" ones now.

Anyway, not sure where this apparent statute of this Thomas fellow is, don't recall seeing it in Trent, Sask, Manitoba, UNBC, UNB or UBC's Native studies departments (or any of the other 30 depts across Canada in our fine universites). Don't recall seeing anything like it in any of the law schools either. But I could have missed it if its size and location was not what one would expect - if ECSN could provide a location I'll contact the Dept head/Faculty Dean and ask them for a quick pic of it. I'm kind of wondering why we would put a statute up of an American (no offence to American scholars) when we have so many our our own prolific scholars here to cast in bronze.

I vote that we suggest to ECSN that he might want to loosen up his headband.. it appears to be cutting off the blood flow to his brain... (from http://www.saponitown.com/forum/show...1129#post31129 )
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Last edited by yaahl; 01-02-2012 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:00 PM   #331
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OMG!

You're ****tin' me or is that -- actually -- the fearless garbage Troubadour?
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:02 PM   #332
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I won't quote all of yaahl's post, but is would like to say...

For some reason, that headband pic reminds me of a crossdressing Wonder Woman. I apologize to all the real Wonder Womans of the world!
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #333
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I feel like this has turned into the play room of a small child, one second the empty TV box is a racecar, then it's a rocket ship, then it's a house, and then it's a jail for the bank robbing stuffed alligator and his malicious gang of teddy bears....
so thats what you doo when your not here
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:41 PM   #334
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OMG!

You're ****tin' me or is that -- actually -- the fearless garbage Troubadour?
Zeke, I kid you not... LOL... honest injun...

JD, I thought it looked more like the headband from that Disney movie about the "Indian Princess"... and I'm surprised he didn't claim to be descended from her either...

So I take it you're both voting to loosen it up a bit? That's 3 for letting the blood flow.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:47 PM   #335
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Quote:
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Well, there goes ANY credibility...





Yes, you are. (I'm not an education/intellectual slouch, either.)

I doubt ECSN even understands what he reads. Obviously no actual analysis is conducted.

May I have more pie?
We're all gonna need some more pie, and cake for his return.LOL

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This has been my contention since he came on here in 2008.
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Yep

I agree with all of you. I don't think he actually has any comprehension of what he reads, just regurgitates it like he's some kind of great historian. Sorry, the crap spewing doesn't work here.

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OMG!

You're ****tin' me or is that -- actually -- the fearless garbage Troubadour?


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Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
I won't quote all of yaahl's post, but is would like to say...

For some reason, that headband pic reminds me of a crossdressing Wonder Woman. I apologize to all the real Wonder Womans of the world!

LMAO--yep, that's him. Someone came to me the last time he was here and gave me a site that he was also on and sent me to read what he was putting out there. He had his pic and his mother's pic. Back then he had blonde hair, was a little heavier but still looked um--well head band.LOL

And personally I don't see the similarities at all, does anyone else? Or is it just me--'cause to me they look so different.LOL
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:49 PM   #336
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I just "don't care," which set him off when he started IM'ing from the blue via Yahoo.

I just kept telling him "post it."

Eventually, I blocked him...
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:53 PM   #337
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Zeke, I kid you not... LOL... honest injun...

JD, I thought it looked more like the headband from that Disney movie about the "Indian Princess"... and I'm surprised he didn't claim to be descended from her either...

So I take it you're both voting to loosen it up a bit? That's 3 for letting the blood flow.
Hey, put me in on that one.HAHAHAHA

And I'm sure there are many other's as well.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:57 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I just "don't care," which set him off when he started IM'ing from the blue via Yahoo.

I just kept telling him "post it."

Eventually, I blocked him...
LOL

You have a Fan Zeke!!
maybe you could autograph his headband make it "Authentic":

Last edited by Josiah; 01-02-2012 at 02:09 PM..
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:02 PM   #339
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I just "don't care," which set him off when he started IM'ing from the blue via Yahoo.

I just kept telling him "post it."

Eventually, I blocked him...
Awe Zeke, he likes you.

He's probably read some of your posts and (again) has no clue where their coming from or even what they mean and thought you'd be a good ali (I know I screwed that one up, hey it's early yet for me.HAHAHAHA)
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:04 PM   #340
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Having had a quick peek at the scholarship of this Robert Thomas chap from the points ECSN made about his contributions us Canucks, I didn't really find a heap his material used in any of the Native Journals we produce up here.. I searched back to about 1980. I found one article by him in the Indigenous Portal that we use for FN research run by U of Sask. I understand this fellow died in about 1991. Which would have put him present around Canadian Indian politics after Meech Lake and Bill C31 and before Oka, RCAP and the Charlottetown Accord.

What I did find however, was a site created by his colleagues and friends to amass his collected scholarship. Seems a bit strange that a private group would be doing that rather than the educational institutions where he researched and taught. I also found a few articles about him by folks that have very strong ties with large religious organizations who appeared to have contracted this Thomas fellow to do some "seminars" in northern communities. Had this Thomas fellow lived into the late 90s and beyond, he would have found his old supporters in churches such as the Anglicans, embroiled in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission over the residential schools they operated. It appears that this Thomas' "contributions" to Canada were restricted to a few seminars for some churches up in the NWT. I haven't located any scholarship by him in this regard that is specific to Canada - Just an article by MacKenzie about their trip up north.

In my work with the repatriation of artifacts and ancestor remains, I read a ton of papers by anthropologists, historians and museum staff. I can't say this fellow's work topped my list of readings - up here in Canada at least. That doesn't mean he didn't contribute something in a scholarly manner just that he isn't as well known as ECSN would like us to believe. We have other scholars that are now the "go to" ones now.

Anyway, not sure where this apparent statute of this Thomas fellow is, don't recall seeing it in Trent, Sask, Manitoba, UNBC, UNB or UBC's Native studies departments (or any of the other 30 Dept's across Canada in our fine universities). Don't recall seeing anything like it in any of the law schools either. But I could have missed it if its size and location was not what one would expect - if ECSN could provide a location I'll contact the Dept head/Faculty Dean and ask them for a quick pic of it. I'm kind of wondering why we would put a statute up of an American (no offense to American scholars) when we have so many our our own prolific scholars here to cast in bronze.

I vote that we suggest to ECSN that he might want to loosen up his headband.. it appears to be cutting off the blood flow to his brain... (from http://www.saponitown.com/forum/show...1129#post31129 )
Actually I found several papers he wrote back in the 70's and his Thesis paper back in 1961 on Redbird Smith. It appears he was living in Michigan in those days...

Does not appear he was widely published and most of his work was in the 60's and 70's he also wrote some children stories in the 80's under a pseudonym: G.P. Horsefly


http://works.bepress.com/robert_thomas/doctype.html
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