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Old 12-22-2011, 01:58 PM   #21
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It is now even more obvious that you didn't even read the first post here. We are discussing why when people from those states come on here they sometimes get the automatic "wannabe" label. When people are saying "insulting" things here it's towards those people from those states that ruin it for all the real people from those states.

You are trolling because the debate about the Federal Cherokee etc is not what is in question here! You're just here to start another fight that you will loose, AGAIN.

I'm not defending anyone for being a hate mongers but we all tired of the BS wannabe fake people who come in here and try to teach us about ndns and shamans and healing crystal etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
It is quite funny, how the Federal Cherokee and their "message board" friends get to haras, cuss, insult, etc all native American people but themself, yet when even one person defends those thats being harassed Toolbox runs in and tries to shut them up even though the person defending is not using profanity etc.

So let's see, numerous insults onto many states of native americans was done, for like 2 pages, then 1 person defends them states, and that person is the troll huh? I think you need to look up what a troll is lol.

Backing hate mongers that attack native american people and opress native american people is not good. If they are man enough to harass people they should be man enough to take the heat.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:05 PM   #22
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:08 PM   #23
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Your group almost lost all your government money messing with the Freedman, then your group goes crying about it. I would think your group would of learned a lesson about messing with people but it seems you and your group did not learn a single thing. .
Simply elected another Chief and problem solved

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Why they can't get enrolled is simple, THEY DID NOT GO TO OKLAHOMA duh. The reason they have problems getting federal is because your group keeps writing to congress and sending out mass emails to people to have them write to congress to mess up these attempts at Federal. It sure did not feel good when it got done back huh? The freedman is a small group compared to all these tribes your group is harassing, imagine if all them and the freedman starts writing letters in unity to congress about what your group been doing? .
So... they did not live in Oklahoma?? But the Cherokee Nation and the UKB does 2 out of Three!

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: Not all Cherokee went down the trail of tears, the Eastern Band of Cherokee is proof of that.
Umm yeah actually I have posted that fact myself and any History book does indeed mention the Fact that the Removal act of 1835 did not apply to those that lived in North Carolina..

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: Not all cherokee was in those areas when the removal happened, Court records prove that.
Sure dont dispute that they were some that left the Cherokee Nation East but a few families does not make a tribe

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: Alot of these Cherokee groups the CNO call fake, has actually been recognized by government agencies for 116 or more years.
If you don't believe me, just go to the Kentucky Cherokee's website.
Actually that is not true the State of Kentucky does not have a way to recognize Tribes so the Governor merely wrote a letter saying He recognized them, found that info on The Kentucky website.
Tennessee has the same issue and has since rescinded there recoginiton of 6 "groups"...

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: Reason there is other Cherokee groups other than the 3 Federal ones is because there was more than 3 bands of Cherokee.
NOPE
Only One Tribe One Language
3 Political Units
No Bands none

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: The Federal cherokee uses smear campaigns to get what they want.
OK I agree

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: The federal Cherokee has been attempting to get sole rights on Casinos and gambling in North Carolina.
Actually that is not just a Cherokee Issue it has to do with TRUST LAND
Only those tribes that Trust Land can have Casinos
You should Google that one lots of fights going on all over the country...

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: The Federal Cherokee was not the only group of people forced down the trail of tears.
Agreed but for some damn reason we are the only anyone talks about

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: The Federal Cherokee has kicked people to the street which had walked that same trail of tears..
Ok this one is puzzling which group??
For you know there was more than one group right? For the mixed bloods that held slaves left long before Ross Party left in 1838
So Techincally they rode on the Trail.
It twas the final 16100 that walked in the winter and all of them are on the emigration roll


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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: The federal Cherokee enrolls non native amerians if those non native americans can bring them more money. Bill Clinton is a prime example of this...
Um yeah, Honorary is not Enrolled
Other tribes do the same, your not Suggesting that President Obama is Crow?? Right??
You do remember that the Crow Adopted him???

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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Fact: The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has less native blood than many of the non recognized tribes which they claim is fake.
I would say no
300,000 enrolled
14,000 Fullbloods
Actually larger than alot of tribes
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
It is apparent that you didn't read this thread from the beginning, as evident because I posted on the first page.

Secondly coming in here arguing about the Federal Cherokee and related tribal politics doesn't really have anything to do with this thread - directly. The Cherokee were mentioned because every time one of the people from those states in question comes on here it's always "my xxxxxx relative was a Cherokee princess and I want to dance Northern this or sing and drum at powwows"; yet they lack any real understanding of their history or their people, if they do indeed have any.

You guys hashed the argument to death in 2 previous threads. So STOP starting with this or I'm going to MOD this thread.
How about you work on a ZERO TOLERENCE for hate on this board and maybe....there would not be people having to defend native american people on here....you moderators sit back and let these Federal Cherokee and their friends say whatever they want to other native american people....and do nothing at all about it....in fact people like you toolbox not only allow it but you encourage it and defend it.

If your as native american as you say you are..then why would you actually sit back and allow and encourage the federal government's native americans to attack all other native americans?? The federal government is the same government that attempted genocide onto our people..and now your going to sit back and encourage that same government's indians to attempt genocide onto whats left of our native people, to attempt genocide onto the people who support our people????

How can you actually think it is right at attempting to destory whats left of our people??? For every native person we help destroy, we are only destorying what little support we already have. Every native tribe that goes away is one less tribe support the native people. But you people don't see it, you only think of yourself. This type of hate is only coming from the Corporate casino indians and their attacks is all money based. They do not want unity, they only want destruction and more money, for every native person they destroy they think it means more money for themself.

I for one am not going to sit back and watch some "message board indian" publically attempt to destroy fellow native americans and claim they speak on behalf of all native people. When I see it and when alot of other's see it, we sure as hell are going to school these new generation indians that THEY DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!! THE MAJORITY OF NATIVE AMERICANS DO NOT CONDONE HATE ONTO OTHER BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!! As long as moderaors sit back and allow these Federal Cherokee to harass non federal indians, then there will always be a problem on here...REAL INDIANS DO NOT SIT BACK AND WATCH ATTEMPTS OF GENOCIDE ONTO OUR PEOPLE!!!!
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
It is quite funny, how the Federal Cherokee and their "message board" friends get to haras, cuss, insult, etc all native American people but themself, yet when even one person defends those thats being harassed Toolbox runs in and tries to shut them up even though the person defending is not using profanity etc.

So let's see, numerous insults onto many states of native americans was done, for like 2 pages, then 1 person defends them states, and that person is the troll huh? I think you need to look up what a troll is lol.

Backing hate mongers that attack native american people and opress native american people is not good. If they are man enough to harass people they should be man enough to take the heat.

You are invited to start YOUR OWN thread, to espouse your thoughts and opinions on this matter...WITH all quotes and sources LINKED.

I would like to read what you have to say WITHOUT all the attacks against the other Powwows.com forum members here.

Just post up your best stuff, with credible resources, no hear-say please.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:38 PM   #26
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Again I must reiterate - THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE FEDERAL CHEROKEE!
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
You are invited to start YOUR OWN thread, to espouse your thoughts and opinions on this matter...WITH all quotes and sources LINKED.

I would like to read what you have to say WITHOUT all the attacks against the other Powwows.com forum members here.

Just post up your best stuff, with credible resources, no hear-say please.
How many other powwow members was already attacke don here by this thread? Georgia, Kentucky, Ohio, etc etc...how many people on this message board do you think that has insulted???

As for resources, etc I think people tried that one before and the Federal Cherokee run to moderators and yell copy right violations, plagaism, etc etc. People have tried the posting of just links and then those replies never get approved.

Kiowakat and the other CNO people started so much trouble on indianz. com that now that site has had to stop accepting any new registered members. All they do is start trouble every where they go. People is sick of it.

If you don't want fighting on the message board.....PUT IN A ZERO TOLERENCE RULE FOR HATE AND INSULTS!!!!! If moderators allow them to run their mouth about non federal native americans..then expect people to speak against it...
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:57 PM   #28
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Again I must reiterate - THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE FEDERAL CHEROKEE!
Yes this is about the federal Cherokee, they are the ones who keep attacking non federal tribes, they are the ones always leading the wanna be hunters. Look thru the posts on here everytime someone is attacked for nt being federal look who is the ones always starting the crap.

WHO GIVES A CRAP IF A PERSON JUST FOUND OUT THEY ARE INDIAN!!!! THAT GIVES NO ONE A RIGHT TO ATTACK THEM!!!! ALL NATIVE AMERICANS DESERVE THEIR RECOGNIGTION SO LEAVE NON FEDERAL NATIVE AMERICANS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS NEW GENERATION OF NATIVE AMERICAS!!!!!!!!

HOLDING A FEDERAL CARD DOES NOT MAKE YOU ANY BETTER OR EVEN MORE INDIAN THAN A NON FEDERAL INDIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:59 PM   #29
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:03 PM   #30
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Wow

We are off in the brambles

BTW there is a Cherokee Thread actually I think Whome started that one too...

So I have no problem moving this discussion over to there and have it out so to speak and stop high-jacking this thread!

This issue has reached the boiling point in many places on the internet...

Here we Go:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/sho...ad#post1353786
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:15 PM   #31
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No it is not about the Federal Cherokee and you have tried to make it about it because you are a TROLL! We aren't attacking non-natives for being non-native and we aren't attacking any natives at all- what we are talking about is what the root causes of attacks on people when they list themselves as being from one of the aforementioned states. WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE! You are just perpetuating an irrelevant argument all for the sake of attention to your cause, which is separate from the issue being discussed here.

When I log into my main computer I'm going to move all your Federal Cherokee posts over to the appropriate threads.


AND BTW - I live and work in one of these states and I'm not offended by the insults lobbed at those states because a lot of the insults are true. I don't agree with attacking individuals till they prove that they are not ndn - like acting like a new age hippie wannabe.

Again this argument will continue in the appropriate thread later on when I sit in front of my main computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Yes this is about the federal Cherokee, they are the ones who keep attacking non federal tribes, they are the ones always leading the wanna be hunters. Look thru the posts on here everytime someone is attacked for nt being federal look who is the ones always starting the crap.

WHO GIVES A CRAP IF A PERSON JUST FOUND OUT THEY ARE INDIAN!!!! THAT GIVES NO ONE A RIGHT TO ATTACK THEM!!!! ALL NATIVE AMERICANS DESERVE THEIR RECOGNIGTION SO LEAVE NON FEDERAL NATIVE AMERICANS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS NEW GENERATION OF NATIVE AMERICAS!!!!!!!!

HOLDING A FEDERAL CARD DOES NOT MAKE YOU ANY BETTER OR EVEN MORE INDIAN THAN A NON FEDERAL INDIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:46 PM   #32
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Yes this is about the federal Cherokee, they are the ones who keep attacking non federal tribes, they are the ones always leading the wanna be hunters. Look thru the posts on here everytime someone is attacked for nt being federal look who is the ones always starting the crap.

WHO GIVES A CRAP IF A PERSON JUST FOUND OUT THEY ARE INDIAN!!!! THAT GIVES NO ONE A RIGHT TO ATTACK THEM!!!! ALL NATIVE AMERICANS DESERVE THEIR RECOGNIGTION SO LEAVE NON FEDERAL NATIVE AMERICANS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS NEW GENERATION OF NATIVE AMERICAS!!!!!!!!

HOLDING A FEDERAL CARD DOES NOT MAKE YOU ANY BETTER OR EVEN MORE INDIAN THAN A NON FEDERAL INDIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know ECSN, if you would put aside your bellicosity and belligerent posturing and actually read what people write on here you'd see that the problem isn't with people from those states with legitimate lineage to First Nations. Rather, it is more about people who make claims to a First Nation ancestor and use that connection (if any at all) to start making crap up about ceremonies, clothing, teachings so they make a buck selling it to lost Europeans. Not one of these people has ever tried to learn the language of the people they make claim to being part.

If you were to once step outside of your own obsession with ratcheting up the disagreements between states and federal recognized First Nations you might actually find some pretty good examples of how some First Nations have dealt with self government, self definition, land claims and treaty issues.

While you were reading posts directed at historystudent, you should have seen my reference to our comprehensive land claim agreement in which we as Yukon First Nations decided to do away with status cards, Indian Affairs, tax free status and embraced all of our people whether they were status or not - we go by the term beneficiary now. Our Council is made up of both the councils who represented status and non-status people. Instead of turning puce over what you perceive as an attack, you might want to take a breath, stop blustering and read what has been written, do some research outside of your own obsession and see what other First Nations are doing.

When Elijah Smith back in the 1970s tired of listening to the complaints of his people he turned to them and said to do something about it then. Elijah and his vision for his people brought us to the 1996 Agreement. If you have a vision for your people, then instead of gripping about it, do something about it. Attacking, Josiah and other Cherokee people is not winning you any sympathy. Like historystudent and his numerous personas, I stopped taking him and now you, seriously when both of you hammered on about the same subject in the same manner.

Stop behaving like a spoiled, prima donna, throwing hissy fits at being questions on your facts, your approach and your delivery. You are hitting at a gnat with a 20 pound sledge hammer. Obsessive, belligerent posting is not the way to win support. But.. if you wish to paint a target on your forehead and continue your disagreeable manner of discussion then expect some flak.

Instead of attacking Josiah and other Cherokee people, why don't you use that energy to set out how YOU would bring all the legitimate Cherokee people together? How would you stop people from making claims to being native when they are not? How would you protect your cultural integrity from these people?
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:05 PM   #33
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I created this thread by moving the material from the "No respect for these states" thread. This discussion stays here or in new threads created for this subject only. Thanks.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:19 PM   #34
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:10 AM   #35
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BIA List of Unrecognized Cherokee Groups Starting with A

Alabama
Cherokee Nation of Alabama. Letter of Intent to Petition 02/16/1999
Cherokee River Indian Community. Letter of Intent to Petition 08/03/2000. Receipt of Petition 08/03/2000.
Cherokees of Southeast Alabama. Letter of Intent to Petition 05/27/1988; certified letter returned marked "deceased" 11/5/1997.
Chickamauga Cherokee of Alabama.
Eagle Bear Band of Free Cherokees.
Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama Wolf Clan.
The Langley Band of the Chickamogee Cherokee Indians of the Southeastern United States, aka Langley Band of Chickamogee of Cherokee Indians. Letter of Intent to Petition 04/20/1994; Postal service certified letter returned 11/5/1997.
Phoenician Cherokee II - Eagle Tribe of Sequoyah. Letter of Intent to Petition 09/18/2001.
Wolf Creek Cherokee Tribe, Inc. of Florida. Also in Florida.

Arizona
The United Cherokee Nation (UCN) – Western National Office. Also in Georgia. supposed Clans organized in these areas, often calling themselves as "Cherokee Nation of ....": Alabama, Alaska, Alberta, Arizona (Georgia, Nevada), Arkansas, California, Colorado (New Mexico, Utah), Connecticut, Cyprus, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho (Montana), Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana (Mississippi), Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri (Kansas), Nebraska (Iowa), New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin (Illinois (Chicago and Metropolis branches), Minnesota) and Wyoming.

Arkansas

Nearly all the unrecognized tribes in Arkansas have been accused as "Suspected Fraudulent Organizations" by the American Indian Heritage Support Center.
Amonsoquath Tribe of Cherokee.
Arkansas Band of Western Cherokee (formerly Western Arkansas Cherokee Tribe). Letter of Intent to Petition 04/07/1998.
Arkansas Cherokee (also known as Chickamauga Cherokee of Arkansas). Letter of Intent to Petition 03/21/2008.
Arkansas Cherokee Nation. Arkansas White River Cherokee (also in Florida).
Central Tribal Council. Letter of Intent to Petition 01/21/2003.Receipt of Petition 01/21/2003.
Cherokee Nation West of Missouri and Arkansas (formerly Cherokee Nation West or Southern Band of the Eastern Cherokee Indians of Arkansas and Missouri). Letter of Intent to Petition 5/11/1998.Also in Missouri.
Cherokee-Choctaw Nation of St. Francis and Black Rivers. Letter of Intent to Petition 08/01/2006.
Confederated Western Cherokees of Arkansas.
Lost Cherokee of Arkansas and Missouri. Letter of Intent to Petition 02/10/1999; letter returned, marked “in dispute” between two different addresses. website Lost Cherokee of Arkansas and Missouri, Faction in Conway, AR.
Lost Cherokee of Arkansas and Missouri Faction in Dover, AR.
Neches Tribe – Cherokee Nation.
Northern Cherokee Nation. Dissoved into three groups: Chickamauga Cherokee Nation also known as Chickamauga Cherokee Nation MO/AR White River Band and as White River Band of Northern Cherokee Nation of Missouri and Arkansas. Also in Missouri and Oklahoma. There is also a Chickamauga Cherokee Nation White River Band (II) in Oklahoma.
Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory. Letter of Intent to Petition 2/19/1992. Also in Missouri. Kanasas (Awi Akta) District of NCNOLT.
Oklahoma (Ani Tsi Na) District of the NCNOLT.
Northern Cherokee Tribe of Indians of Missouri and Arkansas. Letter of Intent to Petition 07/26/1985. Also in Missouri.
Old Settler Cherokee Nation of Arkansas. Letter of Intent to Petition 9/17/1999.
Ozark Mountain Cherokee Tribe of Arkansas and Missouri. Letter of Intent to Petition 10/19/1999. Receipt of Petition 10/19/1999. Also in Missouri.
Red Nation of the Cherokee. Also in Kansas.
Sac River and White River Bands of the Chickamauga-Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri Inc. (formerly Northern Chickamauga Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri). Letter of Intent to Petition 09/05/1991. Also in Missouri.
Western Cherokee of Arkansas and Louisiana Territories. Letter of Intent to Petition 10/05/2001. Also in Missouri.
Western Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri. Letter of Intent to Petition 05/01/1998. Also in Missouri.

More to Follow
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:15 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Alabama
Cherokee Nation of Alabama. Letter of Intent to Petition 02/16/1999
Cherokee River Indian Community. Letter of Intent to Petition 08/03/2000. Receipt of Petition 08/03/2000.
Cherokees of Southeast Alabama. Letter of Intent to Petition 05/27/1988; certified letter returned marked "deceased" 11/5/1997.
Chickamauga Cherokee of Alabama.
Eagle Bear Band of Free Cherokees.
Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama Wolf Clan.
The Langley Band of the Chickamogee Cherokee Indians of the Southeastern United States, aka Langley Band of Chickamogee of Cherokee Indians. Letter of Intent to Petition 04/20/1994; Postal service certified letter returned 11/5/1997.
Phoenician Cherokee II - Eagle Tribe of Sequoyah. Letter of Intent to Petition 09/18/2001.
Wolf Creek Cherokee Tribe, Inc. of Florida. Also in Florida.

Arizona
The United Cherokee Nation (UCN) – Western National Office. Also in Georgia. supposed Clans organized in these areas, often calling themselves as "Cherokee Nation of ....": Alabama, Alaska, Alberta, Arizona (Georgia, Nevada), Arkansas, California, Colorado (New Mexico, Utah), Connecticut, Cyprus, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho (Montana), Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana (Mississippi), Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri (Kansas), Nebraska (Iowa), New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin (Illinois (Chicago and Metropolis branches), Minnesota) and Wyoming.

Arkansas

Nearly all the unrecognized tribes in Arkansas have been accused as "Suspected Fraudulent Organizations" by the American Indian Heritage Support Center.
Amonsoquath Tribe of Cherokee.
Arkansas Band of Western Cherokee (formerly Western Arkansas Cherokee Tribe). Letter of Intent to Petition 04/07/1998.
Arkansas Cherokee (also known as Chickamauga Cherokee of Arkansas). Letter of Intent to Petition 03/21/2008.
Arkansas Cherokee Nation. Arkansas White River Cherokee (also in Florida).
Central Tribal Council. Letter of Intent to Petition 01/21/2003.Receipt of Petition 01/21/2003.
Cherokee Nation West of Missouri and Arkansas (formerly Cherokee Nation West or Southern Band of the Eastern Cherokee Indians of Arkansas and Missouri). Letter of Intent to Petition 5/11/1998.Also in Missouri.
Cherokee-Choctaw Nation of St. Francis and Black Rivers. Letter of Intent to Petition 08/01/2006.
Confederated Western Cherokees of Arkansas.
Lost Cherokee of Arkansas and Missouri. Letter of Intent to Petition 02/10/1999; letter returned, marked “in dispute” between two different addresses. website Lost Cherokee of Arkansas and Missouri, Faction in Conway, AR.
Lost Cherokee of Arkansas and Missouri Faction in Dover, AR.
Neches Tribe – Cherokee Nation.
Northern Cherokee Nation. Dissoved into three groups: Chickamauga Cherokee Nation also known as Chickamauga Cherokee Nation MO/AR White River Band and as White River Band of Northern Cherokee Nation of Missouri and Arkansas. Also in Missouri and Oklahoma. There is also a Chickamauga Cherokee Nation White River Band (II) in Oklahoma.
Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory. Letter of Intent to Petition 2/19/1992. Also in Missouri. Kanasas (Awi Akta) District of NCNOLT.
Oklahoma (Ani Tsi Na) District of the NCNOLT.
Northern Cherokee Tribe of Indians of Missouri and Arkansas. Letter of Intent to Petition 07/26/1985. Also in Missouri.
Old Settler Cherokee Nation of Arkansas. Letter of Intent to Petition 9/17/1999.
Ozark Mountain Cherokee Tribe of Arkansas and Missouri. Letter of Intent to Petition 10/19/1999. Receipt of Petition 10/19/1999. Also in Missouri.
Red Nation of the Cherokee. Also in Kansas.
Sac River and White River Bands of the Chickamauga-Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri Inc. (formerly Northern Chickamauga Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri). Letter of Intent to Petition 09/05/1991. Also in Missouri.
Western Cherokee of Arkansas and Louisiana Territories. Letter of Intent to Petition 10/05/2001. Also in Missouri.
Western Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri. Letter of Intent to Petition 05/01/1998. Also in Missouri.

More to Follow



I've never once seen any of these groups do a pow wow etc.


I've never once seen any of them associated with any of the tribes or native american descendants of the eastern side. I've never even seen any of them on any discussion boards.


So you can't use them people to attack all non federal people.


I've never even seen crystals, new age etc used on the East Coast. I'm not even sure where you people find them lol The new agers, crystal people must hold secret meetings or something.

The majority of the East coast non federal tribes are more about research, geneaology, historial record tracking, etc. If you was to check out Saponi town's site you'll get a idea of what the east coast tribes and descendants are more into.

If you want to know if a person is real or fake, just ask them how they claim descent. That is what we do on the east coast.

We have Druids out here on the east coast even though no one can really prove descent from druids and there is no real records on druid culture yet there is druid people on the east coast. I have never seen them involved in any of the east coast native american stuff. So maybe they do this stuff online only or maybe they do stuff all hidden from the public. Maybe they use craig's list. I do know Lumbee are not into new age, I know the Kentucky Cherokee is not into new age.

For Nc, Va, Sc, Kentucky, Ohio, and Tenn areas we have a easy way to know who is who. That is surname recognigtion. All of the people in these areas know each other's family. These people have married back and forth numerous times since the 1600's. Robert K Thomas put together a extensive list of surnames connected to each historical tribe for North Carolina. That research document is called Cherokee communties of the south, written by Federal Cherokee Robert K Thomas in 1976.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:46 AM   #37
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Now if you want to see what we deal with out here on the East coast.
We have the Nuwabians.

They are a very large and very militant group. They are lead by Dr. York who is in prison for child molestation. The guy has legally changed his name many times. In Georgia they claim to be Creek ( Do not confused them with the other Creek groups in Georgia) indians yet they do not teach one thing on Creek history at all, they dress like free mason shriners. They only teach of Egyptian stuff. they get very violent when someone questions them. These people are all over the east coast. They somehow did unite with many of the Real Black native American descendants and incorprated those real Native American decendant's history into their own. What they did in Georgia was somehow aquired State recognigtion under the name of something like United Creek moors. They then aquired land in Georgia which they told everyone was Sacred Creek indian land. Everyone thought they was building something there for Creek indians. They litterally built a massive replica of Egypt.

I can not call any of the Nuwbians fakes or frauds because they did incorparate many real black native american descendants into their groups. Their numbers are probally well into the 100,000's so is too many to go to each one and ask how they claim native american descent and they are known for fighting if anyone questions them. One of the biggest beliefs they teach is that Blacks came to America and built all the mounds and stone structures and the Native americans of today is their descendants. As far as I know about their enrollment is, if your black then you can enroll. Which basically means you can get state recognigtion as a Native American by just being black and no documentation showing Native American.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:17 AM   #38
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I'll attempt to post some links. Do not use these nuwbian Creek indians as a way to attack any other groups on the East coast because these people are their own group and their actions is on them not the other communties. Their Leader Dr.York is often teaching about aliens etc.

These 2 links shows the Creek moor nation of Georgia's reservation land. Keep in mind this was supposed to be land to be used for representing the Creek indian culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqdneRhWm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTGF75ZBpHk


Here is Dr.York's interview on Cherokee and Creek's ( Don't think I back this guy, I'm only posting these links to show you what we deal with on the East Coast).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFyHL...eature=related


Dr.York will speak about native american stuff only when he wants to get stuff given to him. Beyond that he is all about Egypt. He mixes the real black native american's teachings in with his own teachings.
They often use my family to further their native american connection to Egypt.


Here is Dr.York weird teachings, I do not know where he gets his Native American teachings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6koU97Wm2L8
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:37 AM   #39
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Now here is one of the Native American people that the CNO and a few of the other wanna be hunters have been attacking. Several was attacked here on this message board in the past few years. The Melungeons ( This is actually a racist term the Europeans gave us, this is not a tribe name, the Europeans as our people would come off the mountain ridges could not call us the black racist word so they started refering to our people as the Melungeons, usually right before they threw rocks at us or straped our people to the "Melungeon" tree and beat us with sticks and whips). This is why people think our people is a tribe named Melungeon. It is not our tribe name lol. Everyone off the mountain ridge always say...those nasty melungeons live up there on that mountain. So this is what all the European people thought our tribe name was. For quite some time Melungeons was known for carrying whip scars on their back. They was isolated up on the Mountain ridge from like the 1700's into the late 1800's and some still live up there on the mountain ridge semi isolated from the world. Many today have to get their water from streams and wells.

I Welcome you to go up there today and I promise you will feel like you have went onto a reservation. Most of it is still dirt roads, no cable, bad Tv reception, Tobacco crops, no shoes, shack houses, etc.

Around 1850 some of the Melungeons started easing into more civilazed places such as Kentucky and Ohio where they get welcomed as brothers and sisters by the established native communties there. Many are just now comeing off the ridge to civilized cities. The guy who made the Cherokee outdoor play even at a time had a outdoor play for the melungeons called Walk into the sunset ( I think that is the name). Many of these people are just learning what the internet is, just learning about the other Native American groups and just learning about the more modern Native Americans. So they are wanting to connect more with these people and wondering onto message boards etc only to be harassed. They have been documented continiously as a native american group with a designated area since the 1700's all the way up to this day.


Alot of tv shows come up on the ridge, college profesors, genetics people, etc to interview them, take blood samples, skull measurements, etc. I do not kid you. Even people from other countries have came up to the mountain ridge asking questions about us. Never once had the Melungeons asked to be recognized or asked for government money. The Cherokee label many give them is what outsiders give them, they do not claim Cherokee. The new age people saying they are aliens are labels the new agers give them, never once has a Melungeon said they was aliens lol. The Nuwbians call them ancient Egyptians, never once has the Melungeons said they was Egyptians or Muslims. The only thing Melungeons will tell you is the same thing they have been saying since the 1700's, they was the Indians that onced lived on the NC coast and some Portugesse sailors landed there mixed with them and they went to the Tennessee mountain ridges to stay away from civilation.

To this day people are known to drive over their graves in cars. To this day people on message boards insult them simply because they are coming off that mountain ridge and just now learning about the other modern native american groups. People insult them because they are just now learning about their actual tribe names and the historical records before they went to the mountain ridges. To this day people want to group them in with some fake and fraud new age groups without even researching them. After seeing how they get treated it is no wonder alot of them refuse to come off that mountain ridge lol.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
I've never once seen any of these groups do a pow wow etc.


I've never once seen any of them associated with any of the tribes or native american descendants of the eastern side. I've never even seen any of them on any discussion boards.


So you can't use them people to attack all non federal people.


I've never even seen crystals, new age etc used on the East Coast. I'm not even sure where you people find them lol The new agers, crystal people must hold secret meetings or something.

The majority of the East coast non federal tribes are more about research, geneaology, historial record tracking, etc. If you was to check out Saponi town's site you'll get a idea of what the east coast tribes and descendants are more into.

If you want to know if a person is real or fake, just ask them how they claim descent. That is what we do on the east coast.

We have Druids out here on the east coast even though no one can really prove descent from druids and there is no real records on druid culture yet there is druid people on the east coast. I have never seen them involved in any of the east coast native american stuff. So maybe they do this stuff online only or maybe they do stuff all hidden from the public. Maybe they use craig's list. I do know Lumbee are not into new age, I know the Kentucky Cherokee is not into new age.

For Nc, Va, Sc, Kentucky, Ohio, and Tenn areas we have a easy way to know who is who. That is surname recognigtion. All of the people in these areas know each other's family. These people have married back and forth numerous times since the 1600's. Robert K Thomas put together a extensive list of surnames connected to each historical tribe for North Carolina. That research document is called Cherokee communties of the south, written by Federal Cherokee Robert K Thomas in 1976.
Some points

Surnames are a European Thing not Cherokee
It was not until the later part of the 1880's that Cherokees started taking the Names of their Fathers.

It is impossible to determine a specific surname as strictly Cherokee examples:

Smith
Redbird Smith (Cherokee)
Chad Smith (Cherokee)
John Smith (White)

Billy Bob Stopp (Cherokee)
Joe Stopp (White)

Family Research is the only way to determine Ancestory Generation to Generation from the present to the past. Cherokees have excellent Records going back to Removal. This research can be done on your own but should be checked out by a professionals.
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