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Old 01-03-2012, 03:23 AM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
What TT was getting at is that your photo evidence is no more conclusive than if it had been a picture taken with a bunch of Hungarians. There are no visible references to identify the location of the photo, no unique building characteristics, no reverse marking by the photographer or a photographer's signature on the front to indicate it was even taken in the US. All we have ever had from you is unsourced records from places like ancestry.com and various web based "family" finding sites.

Anyone who wants to stand on their research produces the hard copies (preferably certified copies) of the original documents. Electronic copies can be easily altered. Especially like the ones you have kept producing and relying upon. Have you even gone to the state archives and made copies of these documents or are you relying on the integrity of other people's research to be accurate? Do you comb the internet looking for genealogy sites about names that you think are in your family and scoop all the info other people have probably paid good money to get their hands on and claim it has your own sloppy research?

You seem to have access to a variety of photos, are these photos actually yours? Or did you scoop them off a website? Can you produce the backs of these photos? Old photos usually have some pretty interesting info on the backs.

The photo you have used above says it's from www.jackiepetty.com. Is that your site? Do they know you lifted this picture?

Oh and Hungarians are predominately white... your hickness is coming out.
Jackie petty is my cousin idiot.

And my stuff is sourced idiot. omfg your so dumb.

do you actually have a brain?

You know what, you nor these other people have posted a single thing on their family, so start posting your family info or shut up.

REAL TALK

I have nothing else to prove to you, I'm not your dog you got it?
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:41 AM   #522
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You poor misguided thing you. I feel so bad for how you've been so twisted up and around. I really do.

First of all the fact that a Chief of the Creek Nation named a child of his after your ancestor doesn't prove Creek Heritage, it shows that the Chief was honoring your ancestor and that in it's self should be honored not twisted in another way.

And your grandmother's name was Sudie, not Sonora (the many spellings) that was her middle name. Her name on all the census records, her Death Certificate (yes I have the certificate number too) and her tomb stone all says Sudie as her name, so that was her first name. To use a name just because it sounds more NDN is just wrong and twisted. Your grandmother knew who she was, why don't you? You keep giving her another name, a middle name.

You need to go back to the person who taught you how to do this stuff and smack them.

NOW!!!! YOUNG MAN!!!! You owe her an apology and I do mean that. She asked a legitimate question for clarification sake so as not to assume and make a mistake and you call her an "Idiot". That's enough of that 10 year old garbage. We are all adults on this site and if you want our help or even for us to listen to you then you darn well better grow up and act like it. Do I make myself clear here? If you act like a 10 year old, then I will talk and treat you like a 10 year old and I'm an old mother from way back and I will do it. NOCK IT OFF NOW!!!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:26 AM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Jackie petty is my cousin idiot.

And my stuff is sourced idiot. omfg your so dumb.

do you actually have a brain?

You know what, you nor these other people have posted a single thing on their family, so start posting your family info or shut up.

REAL TALK

I have nothing else to prove to you, I'm not your dog you got it?
You rude little arrogant a$$hat. How dare you demand that we post our family info. We aren't the ones who came into this thread whining and posting pages and pages of copied and pasted info trying to prove whatever the hell you are trying to prove. You are the one that put the questionable research up for discussion and when you are shown that you are wrong, you do nothing but post more garbage that makes eyes glaze over. It boils down to the fact that you have not proven how you are related to any of these people yet, other than saying-"that's my grandma, that's my cousin". I have no intention on posting my family info. I will state who claims me when someone I have respect for asks me-and not until then. You have been given accurate information, but you choose to be blind because it doesn't say what you want it to say. You don't want real talk, you want people to tell you what you want to hear-so go someplace else for it because obviously, you aren't getting that here.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:40 AM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Jackie petty is my cousin idiot.

And my stuff is sourced idiot. omfg your so dumb.

do you actually have a brain?

You know what, you nor these other people have posted a single thing on their family, so start posting your family info or shut up.

REAL TALK

I have nothing else to prove to you, I'm not your dog you got it?
I didn't ask you if you were her cousin, I asked if you were the owner of the photos. The fact you lifted them from Jackie Petty's site tells me they weren't yours to begin with.

Providing internet links is not sourcing your material. It's using a very poor method in which to show where you stole your ideas from. In all the last month, you have not produced one single original thought on the subjects you try and engage in. All you do is cut and paste other people's work and claim it as your own. We had this discussion when you were historystudent, about plagiarism.

I'm curious as to why you think seeing any of our documentation will advance your position? Are you trying to see if you are related to any of us? I'll tell you now, if you are even remotely related to me I'd hot glue a condom on you to prevent you contributing anything to my future gene pool. Otherwise why would our families be of interest to you? You have for the better part of your tirades vilified "carded" Indians. Why the sudden interest in us now? Do you honestly think that those of us that are comfortably in our families and communities require tomes of dusty pages to tell us who we are? Do you think we have file cabinets in our homes filled with documents as you feel you have to have? If you do, then you sure didn't learn anything about native ways from any grandmother. When I want to remember who I am, I tap the lady on my right and say... "gran... who am I?" and she says, "eat your moose nose, silly girl." I don't suspect you'll get the drift of that, no amount of white man records will give you any idea of that.

You're (note how it is spelled - not your) just a sad, little boy who has no idea who he is. A dog would have a better chance figuring it out than you would.

Now, if you are going to shift into the internet tough guy mode.. let me tell you so far, it isn't working. The use of all caps is so last decade on message boards. I don't intimidate easily. If you had actually been around native women, you'd know that... but the ones I suspect you've been around are the ones that are the lost and found new Indians that are tied to a figment of their imagination of what an Indian should be as you are.

You do realize that you have zero credibility now. You've said you have no interest to claim being Cherokee, so why are you still on this thread? To use your analogy of bringing things to a table...you brought, you dumped, it collapsed the table. The repair bill is in the mail.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:59 AM   #525
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Edited to remove duplicate post-again. (:
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:40 AM   #526
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lineage is just but one criteria, culture is more impt, do you act indian? Doesn't seem like it.

CASE CLOSED.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:45 AM   #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
lineage is just but one criteria, culture is more impt, do you act indian? Doesn't seem like it.

CASE CLOSED.
LoL
Lineage, Culture, Language,
More than one Family
Makes a tribe
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:06 AM   #528
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On the 1790 federal census for Orange County, North Carolina (then including Alamance County, which was formed in 1849), the names of Charles Whitmore, Jesse Whitmore, and Jacob Jeffries appear (U.S. Bureau of the Census 1790). Since the 1790 census for Orange County was actually made up from a tax list of 1787, it is clear that these heads of households and their families, and possibly others, were here by that date. In 1787, the Texas community no doubt was a long day's ride from the center of government at Hillsborough, and so it is likely that there were other families there as well. It also is unlikely that the members of the community were completely trusting of these white government officials, and consequently may have actively avoided contact with them. The 1790 census does not list the race of the heads of household in Orange County. Both Whitmores are listed in 1830 as "Free Negro Heads of Households" along with numerous Jeffrieses, Corns, Burnettes, Haithcocks, Joneses, and others for the North District of Orange County.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
You really should start researching this stuff before bringing it to the table, Seriously.


--As defined in NAGPRA, "Native American" refers to human remains and cultural items relating to tribes, peoples or cultures that resided within the area now encompassed by the United States prior to the historically documented arrival of European explorers.--

That is what it said.

The article you posted on was from 2000 also.

Here is something more recent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qDixjaKTQU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXx6g...eature=related
LOL
Your Kidding right? Your Pulling our leg
You are getting your Research from BOG Man and Gnostic Prince?
DNA proving that Europeans were here First? What DNA would that be? MTDNA or Paternal
LOL

They tried to use DNA Mapping on Kennewick Man also but the DNA was too degraded that was the link I posted but yeah I know too busy to read. And I am sure we can find a video on Youtube that will say its a government Coverup that Kenniwick man was From Europe rowed across the Atlantic walked all the way to Washington State and got shot by an Arrow and Buried ( Oh yeah he was buried as in Funeral Rites) only to be found 9000 years later. I know I Know he was one of them LOST Cherokees.....

Umm yeah

I found a Youtube video that says Bigfoot is real also actually a couple Georgians sold him, It wasnt...
Hell I seen a cat playing a piano on Youtube
Although it looks real I would not use it to back up serious Scientific studies

Is that where you learned to do Odd Count Flat Peyote Stitch??
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:01 PM   #530
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:05 PM   #531
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Where do I send my donation to? Be glad to contribute.
...Well you have access to the kinds of expendables that I need to accomplish this... you know what I'm talking about.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:53 PM   #532
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Background info to the Grandmother Coyote story from earlier in the thread...

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-.../going-native/
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:38 PM   #533
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Background info to the Grandmother Coyote story from earlier in the thread...

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-.../going-native/
I havent posted in these forums in years, and get a headache reading them!

Yes, this grandmother coyote is a fraud.

Though reading this stuff makes my eyes cross, I do wish to state, that if you can find your ancestors in the US Federal Census in the 1700's, then they were not Indian... they were indeed white... same if you can find them consistantly in the 1800 Census. The 1900 US Census is the FIRST US Census to list Indian people, and there is a special census that recorded Indian people in 1900. Please do not argue with me about this, I really do know what I am talking about. This is the US Federal Census, not any other census.

A person once told me that she found her ancestors living in Cherokee County Kansas in the census and they had children there, so therefore, they were Cherokee Indians.... Not so, white people lived in Indian teritories never mixing with Indian people, most were there for trade with the Indians. The areas of which Indians lived, or counties named after tribes does not make people who lived there a automatic Indian.

Indian people are trying to protect what their ancestors gave to them, the greatest gift of all is our culture. Watching Indian artists testify before legislature, one man explained why the Indian Arts and Crafts Act had to be stronger, he stated that the young people of his tribe were not interested in making their historical totem poles, because they were being made all over by people who wanted to make money, and did not know or care about the meaning of the pole, totem poles were being made by everyone, even in ceramic classes. The totem pole had been abused, the Indian youth of the tribe felt it was no longer important... with the IACA the kids began to take more interest in their history, and had began to learn why the totem poles were being made, and the true meaning.... with the testimony, the law was revised.
New changes are currently being worked on.

Why do Indian people have to have laws to protect what is traditionally ours? Why is it, that Indian people show their "federal cards" ? We enroll and get our tribal cards because we are a part of our tribe, we show our cards because we are required to do so to promote our arts and crafts, so that the buyer knows these items were made in old, traditional ways.

Non Indians can do beautiful art, beadwork, feather work, lots of stuff, if I cant make it, I will always buy Indian made, if I see something non Indian made, I will buy it, but not at the price of Indian made items...

I think I have written about all I wanted to... sorry for the long post....
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #534
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I would also state, KiowaKat is a good friend of mine, I have met her, and she is Kiowa, her mother is full blood Kiowa, her family is Kiowa, she is a great friend, and artist. I am proud to be her friend, so please do not disrespect her, it is so unfair when she cannot respond to hateful messages.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
Background info to the Grandmother Coyote story from earlier in the thread...

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-.../going-native/
The comments are interesting to read. Especially "REAL INDIAN"'s 3 comments that were written a week ago, on a article that was written 6 years ago!


http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-...ment-393853744
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-...ment-393855894
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-...ment-393903227

Guessing "REAL INDIAN" must be ESPN/HistoryStudent?
At least KiowaKat knows her tribe's culture and ways. What about ESPN/HistoryStudent? Also that lady can make some keen Kiowa mocs/boots.

Last edited by Scabbraidz; 01-03-2012 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:17 PM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scabbraidz View Post
The comments are interesting to read. Especially "REAL INDIAN"'s 3 comments that were written a week ago, on a article that was written 6 years ago!


http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-...ment-393853744
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-...ment-393855894
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2006-...ment-393903227

Guessing "REAL INDIAN" must be ESPN/HistoryStudent?
At least KiowaKat knows her tribe's culture and ways. What about ESPN/HistoryStudent? Also that lady can make some keen Kiowa mocs/boots.
That's exactly what I thought - the writing style for the comments on the article and the arguments made match those of this troll.

Whether you agree with KiowaKat's thinking, or not, I agree it is not fair to attack her when she cannot rebut the attacks.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:34 PM   #537
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Actually Keely, not to argue but to make a point here. The Eastern Cherokee were on the Federal Census' in the 1850's, 1860's, 1870', and 1880's in Haywood Co., Jackson Co., Swain Co., Graham Co, and Cherokee Co, NC. Most all were listed as "Indian", there were a few mixed bloods who were listed as "White". I have those census' and use them all the time. But they were also living with the other members of the tribe as neighbor's and family and can be recognized that way as well as being on all the Rolls in the East.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:04 PM   #538
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Whether you agree with KiowaKat's thinking, or not, I agree it is not fair to attack her when she cannot rebut the attacks.
1. Ask yourself why -- beyond a lack of legitimate argument -- that she cannot.
2. Are you espousing protectionism for the very viewpoint that makes us all chattel?

In the grand scheme I don't actually care what she does as, following her ideas, her line becomes non-Native in a generation, anyway.

I find that pretty humorous.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:09 PM   #539
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Maybe someone could invite her back on here so she may give us her viewpoint on the matters that concern her? I'm just saying... this could get interesting.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:13 PM   #540
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Maybe someone could invite her back on here so she may give us her viewpoint on the matters that concern her? I'm just saying... this could get interesting.
I wouldn't mind: but let's not pretend she'd not still be here were she rational.

She doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
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