Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree2Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > General > Native Life > Native Issues The Federal Cherokee Debate The Federal Cherokee Debate

Closed Thread LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-23-2011, 08:04 AM   #41
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
Said there was more to follow FROM the BIA Website

California
Amonsoquath Tribe of Cherokee. Letter of Intent to Petition.

New Jersey
Cherokee Nation of New Jersey.
New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Indians (a.k.a. Sand Hill Band of Lenape and Cherokee Indians). Letter of Intent to Petition 01/09/2007.
Osprey Band of Free Cherokees.

New York
Cherokee-Blackfeet.
The Chickamauga Notowega Creeks. Letter of Intent to Petition 03/19/2001.
Deer Council of Free Cherokees.
North-Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.
Nuy Keetoowah, Inc.
Ohatchee Cherokee Tribe of New York and Alabama. Letter of Intent to Petition 12/16/2002. Receipt of Petition 12/16/2002.
Western Mohegan Tribe & Nation of New York. Letter of Intent to Petition 1/27/1997.

North Carolina
Cherokee Indians of Hoke County, Inc. (a.k.a. Tuscarora Hoke Co.). Letter of Intent to Petition 09/20/1983; determined ineligible to petition (SOL opinion of 10/23/1989).
Cherokee Indians of Robeson and Adjoining Counties. Letter of Intent to Petition 02/01/1979; determined ineligible to petition (SOL opinion of 10/23/1989).
Cherokee Powhattan Indian Association.
Creek-Cherokee Indians, Pine Tree Clan.
Free Cherokee.
Indians of Person County (formerly Cherokee-Powhattan Indian Association). Letter of Intent to Petition 09/07/1984.
Ridge Band of Cherkees.
Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy.
Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy, Silver Cloud Clan.
Tsalagi Nation Early Emigrants 1817. Letter of Intent to Petition 07/30/2002.Receipt of Petition 07/30/2002.

Ohio
Cherokee Delaware Indian Center.
Cherokee United Intertribal Indian Council.
Chickamauga Keetoowah Unami Band of Cherokee.
Chickamauga Keetoowah Unami Wolf Band of Cherokee Delaware
Eastern Cherokee Nation, Overhill Band.
Etowah Cherokee Nation.
Free Cherokee, Four Direction Council.
Free Cherokee, Hokshichanklya Band.
Tallige Cherokee Nation, Fire Clan.

Oklahoma
Canadian River Band of the Southern Cherokee Nation.
Cataba Tribal Association
Chickamauga Cherokee Nation (I), also known as Chickamauga Cherokee Nation MO/AR White River Band and as White River Band of Chickamauga Cherokee Nation of Missouri and Arkansas. Also in Arkansas and Missouri. There is also a Chickamauga Cherokee Nation White River Band (II) in Oklahoma.
Chickamauga Cherokee Nation White River Band (II).[17] There is also a Chickamauga Cherokee Nation White River Band (I) in Arkansas, Missouri and Oklahoma.
Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory. State-recognized in Missouri, but unrecognized in Arkansas and elsewhere. Kanasas (Awi Akta) District of NCNOLT. – Located in Kansas Oklahoma (Ani Tsi Na) District of the NCNOLT.[1] – Located in Oklahoma.
Northern Cherokee Tribe of Indians.
Northern Chickamaunga Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri.Letter of Intent to Petition 9/5/1991
Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy, Horse Clan.
Southern Cherokee Nation.
United Band of the Western Cherokee Nation. Letter of Intent to Petition 3/14/2003.

Oregon
The Cherokee Delaware Tribe of the Northwest.
Northwest Cherokee Deer Clan.
Northwest Cherokee Wolf and Paint Clan.
Northwest Cherokee Wolf Band of the Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy. Letter of Intent to Petition 03/09/1978; Declined to Acknowledge 11/25/1985 50 FR 39047.

Pennsylvania
Free Cherokee-Chickamauga.
Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy of Pennsylvania.
Tsalagi Elohi Cherokee Earth.
United Cherokee Tribe of West Virginia. Also in South Carolina and West Virginia.

South Carolina
Broad River Band of Cherokee.
Cherokee Bear Clan of South Carolina.
Cherokees of South Carolina.
Free Cherokee-Chickamauga
United Cherokee Tribe of West Virginia. Also in Pennsylvania and West Virginia.

Tennessee
Aniyunweya Nation.
Aniywiyai Native People.
Buffalo Ridge Cherokees.
Central Band of Cherokee of Lawrenceburg, Tennessee (state recognized from 19 June - 2 September 2010), Tennessee Attorney General's office declared the state Commission of Indian Affair's recognition "void and of no effect" on September 3, 2010 Formerly known as the "Cherokee of Lawrence County", and as "Sugar Creek Band of SeCCI".[1] Letter of Intent to Petition 9/14/2000. Receipt of Petition 9/14/2000;
Cherokee Wolf Clan of Yuma, Tennessee (state recognized from 19 June - 2 September 2010), Tennessee Attorney General's office declared the state Commission of Indian Affair's recognition "void and of no effect" on September 3, 2010
Chickamauga Circle Free Cherokee.
Chikamaka Band of Tracy City, Tennessee (state recognized from 19 June - 2 September 2010), Tennessee Attorney General's office declared the state Commission of Indian Affair's recognition "void and of no effect" on September 3, 2010; was introduced as the "Chikamaka-Cherokee Band of the South Cumberland Plateau" in 2009 in Tennessee House Bill 239[51] which (bill) was replaced by House Bill 1692.[52] House Bill 1692 included the name Chikamaka Band as the group commonly represents itself.
Chota Nation.
Cumberland Creek Indian Confederation.
Deer Clan of East Tennessee.
East Tennessee Overhill Cherokee Descendants.
Eastern Cherokee Nation.
Elk Valley Band-Council of Chickamauga Cherokee.
Elk Valley Council Band of Free Cherokee.
Etowah Cherokee Nation (I). Letter of Intent to Petition 12/31/1990; certified letter returned undeliverable 10/1997. The recognition of this group, which operated out of Cleveland, Tennessee, is denied by the state legislature, contesting the authority of a Proclamation of Recognition by the Governor of Tennessee of 25 May 25 1978.
Etowah Cherokee Nation (II). Operates out of Pigeon Forge, TN.
Free Cherokee.
Free Cherokee Good Medicine Society.
Free Cherokee of Tennessee.
Free Cherokee Tennessee River Band Chickamauga.
Free Cherokees Chickamaugan Circle.
Kwatani Mission of Chickamuga Cherokee.
Over-Hill Indian Nation - Cherokee. Red Clay Band of Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy. Letter of Intent to Petition 3/9/1978; Declined to Acknowledge 11/25/1985 50 FR 39047.
Red Stick Confederacy.
Tanasi Council, also known as "Tanasi Council of the Far Away Cherokee", of Memphis, Tennessee (state recognized from 19 June - 2 September 2010), Tennessee Attorney General's office declared the state Commission of Indian Affair's recognition "void and of no effect" on September 3, 2010."Faraway Cherokee Native American Inter-Tribal Association", and as "Faraway Cherokee Association".
TeeHahNahMah Nation.
Tennessee Band Cherokee, Inc. Earth Clan.
Tennessee Band of Eastern Cherokee.
Tennessee Band of the Cherokee.
Tennessee River Band of Chickamauge Cherokee.
Tennessee River Band of Chickamuga.
Tohcahe Band White Wolf Guardian Spirit.
Tsalagi Intertribal Warrior Society.
Turkey Town Association of the Cherokee.
United South and Eastern Tribes.
Western Cherokee, Tennessee. This group is a break-away group from the Western Cherokee Nation of Arkansas and Missouri.

Texas
American Cherokee Tribe of Texas.
Cherokee Nation of Texas, Limited.
Cherokee Nation of Texas, Tsalagiyi Nvdagi, Troup.
Chickamauga Cherokee Brushy Creek Band.
Free Cherokee, Hummingbird Clan.
Free Cherokee Tennessee River Band of Chickamauga
Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy, Hawk Clan.
Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy, Sequoyah Clan.
Southeastern Cherokee Tribe and Associated Bands.
Sovereign Cherokee Nation Tejas
Texas Band of Cherokee, Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians (formerly known as Texas Cherokee and Associated Bands). Also known as Texas Band of Cherokee Indians of the Mount Tabor Indian Community.Choctaw-Chickasaw Indians of the Mount Tabor Community. Claims separated from Texas Cherokees and Associated Bands in 1999.
Pine Hill Community of Cherokee Indians.
Texas Buffalo Bayou Band of Chickamaugan Cherokee, Southern Cherokee Nation.
Texas Gulf Coast Cherokee and Associated Bands.
United Chickamaugan.

Utah
Cherokee Indian Descendents Organization of the Ani-Yun-Wiya.
Rocky Mountain Band of Cherokee Descendents

Virginia
Appalachian Cherokee Nation.
Buffalo Ridge Cherokees.
Cherokee of Virginia Birdtown.
Free Cherokees Spider Clan.
Tsalagi, Cherokee of Virginia.
Northern Tsalagi Indian Nation.
Southern Cherokee Confederacy, Pine Log Clan.
Turtle Band of Cherokee.
United Cherokee Indian Tribe of Virginia. Letter of Intent to Petition 08/03/2000. Receipt of Petition 07/31/2000.
Wolf Creek Cherokee Indian Tribe of Virginia.[1][15]

Washington
Anisahani Blue Clan.
Free Cherokees, Four Directions Council.

Washington, D.C.
Cherokee Tuscarora Nation of Turtle Island.

West Virginia
United Cherokee Tribe of West Virginia. Letter of Intent to Petition 12/30/2005. Also in Pennsylvania and South Carolina.

Wisconsin
Southern Cherokee Confederacy, Wisconsin.
Josiah is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 08:24 AM   #42
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
To The Point

All Three Cherokee Tribes Do not have a problem with anybody researching their Heritage.
Actually provides long list of people willing to help

The issue becomes when groups of people form into Heritage groups
Who then attempt to become Recognized as such
Not all are out for money or Land to build a casino on and make millions
But the vast majority do
Josiah is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 08:30 AM   #43
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Here is a link to photos of the Melungeons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESNfNSqBNvA

Here is a video from a documentry a lady made about the Melungeons (As a note: Black dutch was a word some Europeans tried to label us just like the Melungeon name lol )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO0UOsp-NZ8


Here is a video from apprently a new ager which made a website about us claiming we are aliens lol. She is who put the photos on the trees and I have no real idea who the photos are of lol We also told her our history but she left it out of the video lol We did not want in the video because the lady was talking all this alien stuff lol. That is our grave site and that girl at the end is one of us. She is correct in our family being connected to many of the mounds on the east coast. Our families regularly visits the various mounds on the East coast. But has nothing to do with aliens lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_eLJWx2n0


Here is a video from the Muslim and Nuwabian people using our people to claim we are Egyptians lol The guy took like 2 pages from a book that was wrote by Brent Kennedy and ran with it lol Most of the names he says is Melungeon names is not melungeon names. We also are not connected to South Carolina lol. Comparing the Koran to the Powhatans is totally inaccurate as well lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxPxaXn5oIg



Here is a video of these Turkish people trying to claim Native Americans came from turkey lol ( Note: Not one Melungeon is in this video or was at this event, this is something the Turkish people did on their own lol).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj6I4D73oNA


Here is a turkish news coverage....Brent Kennedy claiming Melungeons are Turkish because of a disease lol (Have to jump to about 2:40 to get to english speaking lol). I'll note that Melungeons never once said they was Turkish, they always said Indian and Portugesse. They also do not mention alot of people being put in these genetics tests are not proven Melungeons or proven to even come from that mountain ridge, 95 percent of proven Melungeon descendants did not show traces of Turkish, in fact they show Native american Maternial DNA and in alot of cases European and portugesse Paternial DNA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-MrJIDjNHw

This is what us East Coast native communties call new age lol.


Here is Turkish news footage showing the Turkish Government trying to say Native Americans are Turkish. These people are trying to get the BIA and other Native american tribes to back this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oMhz...eature=related


The Cherokee is being brought into this stuff also. Here is news footage about Cherokee being called Jews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsWyd...eature=related


Here is a webcast of people trying to call the Cherokee Jews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xaTO...eature=related

Here is a video from Discovery channel, where they use the Central band of Cherokee trying to prove Cherokee are Jews (these people ARE NOT documented Cherokee, they have zero proof of being Cherokee and that is left out in the show lol).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUeYS...eature=related


The Central band of Cherokee only speak for themself and do not speak for the other Cherokee, Also brent Kenedy and the Melungeon heritage association does not speak for the Melungeons either. These are groups giving many native people on the East coast a bad name. These are groups we originally thought was working for the Native people, but as soon as money is thrown their way, they will say whatever they are told to say just to make money lol. Here on the East coast we do not see these crystal new age people, we instead see these people that want to claim Native americans are descendants of other countries and Native American culture and language was from other countries. For some reason outsiders think they speak for us when they do not and we are nothing like them. Just as some people find a new ager and instantly think all non federal tribes are new agers as well. The Melungeons are my family, however they never wanted to claim a tribal destination, only indian. So I do not claim tribal destinations from them, I have other native family lines that I use for tribal destinations. The Collins family that started the Melungeons is spread into pretty much every tribe that has ever been in NC, VA, and Maryland. Some of the Collins family is spread out as far as the Paiutes.

Last edited by ECSN; 12-23-2011 at 01:48 PM..
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 08:59 AM   #44
pigheaded
Guest
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Posts: n/a


There are reasons as to why those who are FEDERALLY recognized are and why those who are not, are not.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:02 AM   #45
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Indians of Person County (formerly Cherokee-Powhattan Indian Association). Letter of Intent to Petition 09/07/1984.

Lol, they are some weird people lol.

They now go by the name of Sapony. They have zero proof of Saponi descent. We contacted them several times and simply asked the, why do they deny documented Saponi people enrollment, how do they claim Saponi, and what is their enrollment process.

They told us we are people in indentity crisis and threated us with legal action if we question them again. They have only used the sapony name like maybe 5 or 6 years now. Not really sure how asking how they claim Saponi would amount for legal action lol.

Here is their deal, they have numerous times changed their tribal destination, they claim their indian blood from a indian school. This school had no tribal association. They say anyone who went to that school can enroll with them. There is also no record of any Saponi in any relations to that school.


Several of the ones you named that used the Cherokee name in North Carolina is now using names that I've brought concerns up on. Several people from those groups is on this message board now going under different tribe names. These tribes will change their tribe name numerous times and always get mad when someone just asks them to show some proof od descent.

The Lumbee used to use the Cherokee name, I'm still not clear as to why they refuse to use their actual historical tribe name. they are mostly Tuscarora. Just like the Haliwa saponi is actually Tuscarora also. Haliwa (Halifax and Warren county) was the Tuscarora reservation, so how they get the Saponi name out of them coming from the Tuscarora reservation I have no idea. I'm thinking they was one of the tribes claiming Cherokee awhile back.

This was why Federal Cherokee Robert K Thomas went to NC in 1976 to research the cherokee issue there. Alot of tribes was using the name Cherokee at the time. The name of his research is "cherokee communties of the south". He came to my Collins family and our family was the only one he said claimed Saponi and he stated his research showed we was Saponi. A year after this report the Haliwa started using the saponi name even though Robert K Thomas told them clearly they was not Saponi. Then the Occaneeci took the saponi name, and then the Indians of Person county. No one had a issue with them using the name, the issue was them using the name and completely denying all the families that was known as Saponi, before 1977 the Collins, austins, and Griffins was the ones called Saponi there was none of this Sapony, Occaneechi Saponi, or Haliwa Saponi. Those groups wanted to use the name Cherokee and then came for the name we had been using. If you ask any of us to show how we come from Saponi, we will show tons of historical records with our names, you ask them and they refuse to show anything.

We have been dealing with these groups (which used to call themself Cherokee), dealing with groups wanting to use us to say native americans are egyptians, and then we have wanna be hunters....alot of the cherokee groups the federal cherokee put pressure on...is now the same ones that has been using our family tribe names and trying to steal our heritage. the same ones your speaking against is the same ones we speak against only they are using different names today. And many times the federal cherokee have been grouping us in with them when in fact we are speaking against those same groups that was giving the federal cherokee problems. They are name changers.
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:45 AM   #46
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_...North_Carolina


There is the group you have listed using the Cherokee name in North Carolina.


Now people are letting groups like that use group names that others was already using and are documented to.

The problem is the people "originally" using these various names never wanted recognigtion, never wanted government money or anything, we had just kept the history and heritage alive amongst ourself. Now that these groups that used to use the Cherokee name have started using our ancestorial tribe names and seeking federal rec, it causes us a problem because once a tribe gets federal under that name, it starts some legal issues with the originial name holders. Where a group can legally steal another's heritage etc thru that. We even tried to work a unity with them, they flat out did not want unity with us even though they are now using our ancestor's tribe name.

So now native american descendants on the east coast is starting to be labeled as fakes and frauds when they are not the fakes and frauds, they are the documented descendants. They are the ones being robbed of their heritage. They are not the ones who had been using the cherokee name. This is why we have started telling descendants they need to start educating themself more on their heritage and start representing their heritage more or these groups are going to steal it from them. We also have the Nuwabians coming in trying to claim our heritage as well. We have these Turkish people coming in as well. So we was faced with sit back and continue preserving our heritage like we had been doing or we are going to have to unite more and become more public to let people know about us. Not about money, it is about saving our heritage. We don't care about money or land all we care about is our heritage. The same people you say attacks your heritage is the same ones we say is attacking our heritage. Yet we get lumped in with them by wanna be hunters.

What I think is so bad about these groups now taking on names others had already been using, is they are borrowing stuff from other tribes and dressing in plains clothes, not even wanting to use our sacred blue and red colors, none of them even want to work on learning what little we have of our languages, not even caring about the face paint style our people used, not caring about that ummm our people had mo hawks not these other hair styles, even the druming style we used was not these big drums with alot of people sitting at it, these people do not even seem to know that our drummer sat in the middle of the dance circle not outside of it. We did not use medicine wheels, we did not use turquise jewelery. So much of our ancesterial ways is well documented, people are quick to use the tribe name yet not wish to read about our ancestors. Why are we more interested in pow wows and telling people we are indians rather than being more interested in making visits to our ancestor's mounds to pay our respects. Take a look at these Virginia and North Carolina tribes today, and see how many mo hawks you see. Look and see how often you see the blue and red colors. Look and see if you ever see the drummer inside the circle. They are more interested in being like the western people rather than their own people.
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:08 AM   #47
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
All Three Cherokee Tribes Do not have a problem with anybody researching their Heritage.
Actually provides long list of people willing to help

The issue becomes when groups of people form into Heritage groups
Who then attempt to become Recognized as such
Not all are out for money or Land to build a casino on and make millions
But the vast majority do
All tribes is Heritage groups including the Federal tribes.

And every heritage group has a right to seek their recognigtion.

You should actually be proud to see more native americans seeking to get recognigtion or to represent who they are.


How can people who all are documented descendants of a tribe and wish to be recognized as such and try to show their pride be a issue to a real native american?

Your supposed to encourage this not work against that.

These should not even be called heritage groups...thats actually disrespectful, since they are all descendants and heirs to the tribe they claim.

The only issue should be if they are not documented to the tribe they claim. The most annoying thing is when people claim a tribe and then they get mad if you simply ask how they descend from that tribe and refuse to answer.
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:41 AM   #48
Sg̱aaga g̱uu hla.
 
yaahl's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 2,790
Credits: 42,587.55
Savings: 0.00
ECSN, you refer quite a lot to "we" and "our". Can you clarify who exactly are the "we" and "our"? It will assist with keeping your posts clear.

Have any of the legit native descendant groups ever considered forming a national organization to represent them? I encourage you to research Metis, off-reserve and non-status social and political groups in Canada for a template. I would also encourage you to research the development of the Assembly of First Nations - although they represent status Indians living on reserve or federal granted lands, they do have an interesting history for the inception to now being the government-go-to organization for Aboriginal Affairs.

I think what I'd like to see with your posts is more of your opinion/narrative on them rather than just cutting and pasting large amounts of text. Perhaps to make things easier for folks to read, you could give us a synopsis of the article you are referring to and then just give the links or citation. People tend to skip over blocks of pasted text if there is no conclusion/opinion/narrative/critique of it.

What I think I am seeing with respect to the USA is something we saw here for a number of years and that was the divide between status and non-status people. Although Canadian tribes were never forced to relocate to a central territory, our tribes were documented and treated with by both the pre-confederation UK and post-confederation Canada, people and bands were left of the registry and excluded from the treaties merely because of the time of the year in which the treaty was signed. Many folks were out in the summer fishing and hunting camps when the census and treaties were signed.

Add in the Indian Act enfranchisement of women who married out, and both men and women who went to college or university, joined the military or joined the clergy who were also enfranchised. Then other were enfranchised simply for wanting to leave the reserve and seek employment in the urban areas. Still others were enfranchised by being beaten by the Indian agents until they signed their enfranchisement papers. Children in residential schools were also enfranchised by force or appeal. Those enfranchisements made all those people instant white folks with no way to regain their status again.

I would encourage your group to research the development, implementation and enforce and effect of Bill C-31 of 1985. Thousands of people re-gained their status and children of women who had lost their status because of marrying out, could finally have their kids registered. Bill C31 has its flaws and gaping holes in what it covers but it was a start.

I see and understand the arguments of both sides regarding "there is a reason these people are not enrolled" but if I use my own country's history of enfranchisement and attempts to narrow down those bands in which were treated with, then we too would have reasons to not enroll someone. I also understand the notion of descendancy and if a person who claims to be a descendant can not prove it, then there is little that anyone should be expected to do.

Perhaps the arguments shouldn't be about who is eligible for enrollment but rather looking at why they were left off or enfranchised. I think some of the problems with the groups that are seeking federal recognition is that they are attempting it as a group rather than each "member" seeking their status with BIA. Up here, we have a few categories of status, each one is very specific to whether status can be passed on to children and where the status ends for that person's descendants. (I personally have issues with the ending of status because of a rule book - see McIvor v Minister of Aboriginal Affairs). I would recommend that your group ECSN, look into and research that as well.
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
yaahl is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 12:59 PM   #49
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
ECSN, you refer quite a lot to "we" and "our". Can you clarify who exactly are the "we" and "our"? It will assist with keeping your posts clear.

Have any of the legit native descendant groups ever considered forming a national organization to represent them? I encourage you to research Metis, off-reserve and non-status social and political groups in Canada for a template. I would also encourage you to research the development of the Assembly of First Nations - although they represent status Indians living on reserve or federal granted lands, they do have an interesting history for the inception to now being the government-go-to organization for Aboriginal Affairs.

I think what I'd like to see with your posts is more of your opinion/narrative on them rather than just cutting and pasting large amounts of text. Perhaps to make things easier for folks to read, you could give us a synopsis of the article you are referring to and then just give the links or citation. People tend to skip over blocks of pasted text if there is no conclusion/opinion/narrative/critique of it.

What I think I am seeing with respect to the USA is something we saw here for a number of years and that was the divide between status and non-status people. Although Canadian tribes were never forced to relocate to a central territory, our tribes were documented and treated with by both the pre-confederation UK and post-confederation Canada, people and bands were left of the registry and excluded from the treaties merely because of the time of the year in which the treaty was signed. Many folks were out in the summer fishing and hunting camps when the census and treaties were signed.

Add in the Indian Act enfranchisement of women who married out, and both men and women who went to college or university, joined the military or joined the clergy who were also enfranchised. Then other were enfranchised simply for wanting to leave the reserve and seek employment in the urban areas. Still others were enfranchised by being beaten by the Indian agents until they signed their enfranchisement papers. Children in residential schools were also enfranchised by force or appeal. Those enfranchisements made all those people instant white folks with no way to regain their status again.

I would encourage your group to research the development, implementation and enforce and effect of Bill C-31 of 1985. Thousands of people re-gained their status and children of women who had lost their status because of marrying out, could finally have their kids registered. Bill C31 has its flaws and gaping holes in what it covers but it was a start.

I see and understand the arguments of both sides regarding "there is a reason these people are not enrolled" but if I use my own country's history of enfranchisement and attempts to narrow down those bands in which were treated with, then we too would have reasons to not enroll someone. I also understand the notion of descendancy and if a person who claims to be a descendant can not prove it, then there is little that anyone should be expected to do.

Perhaps the arguments shouldn't be about who is eligible for enrollment but rather looking at why they were left off or enfranchised. I think some of the problems with the groups that are seeking federal recognition is that they are attempting it as a group rather than each "member" seeking their status with BIA. Up here, we have a few categories of status, each one is very specific to whether status can be passed on to children and where the status ends for that person's descendants. (I personally have issues with the ending of status because of a rule book - see McIvor v Minister of Aboriginal Affairs). I would recommend that your group ECSN, look into and research that as well.


We have discussed uniting as a more united group of various tribes. I myself have a few times tried to start this for the Virginia and NC descendants. It is still a on going process. With what I started I did not want our group seeking any recognigtion. Me personally I do not think people should have to get the government which attempted genocide on us to recognize them. There is no other race or group of people in the world which needs to get a special card from the government to recognize them. Maybe the Aboriginals in Austraila but I do not research them awhole lot. People of Mexico are all native americans and free to claim to be orignal people of Mexico. Most of the original treaties in the USA only had the chiefs sign on behalf of a tribe with no individual names of the tribe's people. Here to even claim we are native american we have to gather 250 people then show that all 250 people stayed together for 111 years and had constant relations with the government just to get a card to claim who we are. People should be able to just claim on their own behalf. The federal supreme court ruled in my families favor that we are native american so my family is federally recognized yet we can't get a card lol The Catawba is federal recognized and they know my family is part of them, me and Gene Blue discussed it it a few times. Issues there is when they got federal they put a ad in the south Carolina paper and all descendants had to send a letter in by a certain date, alot of descendants did not know about it so they went past the deadline. I'm still researching my Creek stuff, my grandmother's family is all Creek named and they are on Coweta county, GA records as early at 1830. Her family stayed with the creek trader's family so I'm guessing that is why they did not get removed. There is not any records of their last names just first names, Her name was Senoa, Her whole family is all named weird names all ending with the letter A. Senoa also being the name of several Creek indians from the Coweta tribe of Coweta county at the 1830 time frame. If I actually research it I'm sure I could find some of her family on the removal rolls. Several of the main streets in Coweta county is named after my family. The Read family is who took our family in. East coast tribes was moved around so much that the descendants is a big mix of various tribes and then you have the various mixs of whites and blacks. We are a true rainbow in both race and tribes lol. The entire Nansemond tribe of Virginia is my blood family lol Pretty much the Ohio, Sc, Va, NC, Maryland, Kentucky, and Tennesse native people is all related by blood so personally I don't see why they all don't just form one group and all work together lol. Hell just form a group and call it South Eastern Native americans lol Personally I say all native people unite and all at once protest at the white house saying we want to change the federal recognigtion process to where there is two types of recognigtion, one we apply for federal rec on a single person basis and another where we apply thru entire tribe basis. One of the bad parts about Federal recognigtion here, is even though the government gets you enrolled, the tribe itself can at anytime disenroll you, that is a big issue now days in the USA, usually before a election many people will magically get disenrolled, once disenrolled you will lose all your indigenious rights and benefits, this would not happen if people was able to apply on a person to person basis.
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-23-2011, 02:26 PM   #50
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
I'm going to add a little comic relief here for a moment. my friend uploads various pow wow videos to youtube, and told me about a conversation between two people in his comments section today. My friend added a video for a pow wow at the town creek mound which was inter tribal etc ( town creek mound has nothing to do with the creek indians btw).


Anyway the guy made this comment.

-oh my god LOL the wannabes all came out somebody point me to>>>>>> the real natives.-

(Guy's name is Magical illusions)

One of my other friends replied, this friend's entire youtube channel is dedicated to North Carolina Native american culture ( including a 2 hr long video on the town creek indian mound) and is often uploading videos discussing Historical records that pertain to North Carolina Tribes etc. Here is what my friend posted to him.

-You are the real wanna be..you want to be the TV indian huh..you watched pocahontas way too many times....how about you learn what REAL east coast native americans are before you make yourself look more stupid....-


So Opitcal Illusion reples back.

-I know exactly what I am talking about you must be one of those white indian-wannabes who found out just yesterday that their great-great-great-great grandmother was a cherokee princess??? Lmao. and now you've studied the native american history and know everything about the indian peoples so that makes you an indian right? and btw the people in this video aren't performing creek dances these are plain indian indians LOL. -


Ok so my friends decided to look at this optical illusion guy's youtube channel, Was full of this new age stuff, space aliens, reptilian races, blah blah, Yes the crystals etc lol. So what was funnier is what he posted on a video about wanna be indians just after the above conversation.

-I have native american blood but I want to connect with the culture not just become a member of the tribe and try to get so called benefits or too dress up indian.
I have been researching my family we come from a small town in Oklahoma called okmulgee
my grandmother kept trying to teach me how important it was to connect with the culture for for years. Now I have decided to do so since I now see the importance...
-


Further looking on his youtube channel, Shows this guy has white supremist/ genocide on white people videos fav'd lol.

I thought it was funny lol
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-24-2011, 12:58 AM   #51
The Shamed One
 
Scabbraidz's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Scabbraidz has a reputation beyond repute
Scabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond reputeScabbraidz has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Okrahoma
Posts: 272
Credits: 2,352.63
Savings: 304.34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
I'm going to add a little comic relief here for a moment. my friend uploads various pow wow videos to youtube, and told me about a conversation between two people in his comments section today. My friend added a video for a pow wow at the town creek mound which was inter tribal etc ( town creek mound has nothing to do with the creek indians btw).


Anyway the guy made this comment.

-oh my god LOL the wannabes all came out somebody point me to>>>>>> the real natives.-

(Guy's name is Magical illusions)

One of my other friends replied, this friend's entire youtube channel is dedicated to North Carolina Native american culture ( including a 2 hr long video on the town creek indian mound) and is often uploading videos discussing Historical records that pertain to North Carolina Tribes etc. Here is what my friend posted to him.

-You are the real wanna be..you want to be the TV indian huh..you watched pocahontas way too many times....how about you learn what REAL east coast native americans are before you make yourself look more stupid....-


So Opitcal Illusion reples back.

-I know exactly what I am talking about you must be one of those white indian-wannabes who found out just yesterday that their great-great-great-great grandmother was a cherokee princess??? Lmao. and now you've studied the native american history and know everything about the indian peoples so that makes you an indian right? and btw the people in this video aren't performing creek dances these are plain indian indians LOL. -


Ok so my friends decided to look at this optical illusion guy's youtube channel, Was full of this new age stuff, space aliens, reptilian races, blah blah, Yes the crystals etc lol. So what was funnier is what he posted on a video about wanna be indians just after the above conversation.

-I have native american blood but I want to connect with the culture not just become a member of the tribe and try to get so called benefits or too dress up indian.
I have been researching my family we come from a small town in Oklahoma called okmulgee
my grandmother kept trying to teach me how important it was to connect with the culture for for years. Now I have decided to do so since I now see the importance...
-


Further looking on his youtube channel, Shows this guy has white supremist/ genocide on white people videos fav'd lol.

I thought it was funny lol
I'm guessing this is the video?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAaxi...eature=related

The title of the video is, "creek indians". Not, "Town Creek Mound Powwow". Anybody that saw the title and then the contents of the video(especially that dude at the beginning) would think what MagicalOillusions did. The description ain't even better just says, "Indian Pow wow"...

Last edited by Scabbraidz; 12-24-2011 at 01:06 AM..
Scabbraidz is offline  
Old 12-24-2011, 04:26 PM   #52
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,963.51
Savings: 1.00
Good God, what a load of bellicose garbage: this entire thread. Folks care so much about the intellectual masturbation of proving tiny irrelevant points that the entire strategic vantage is lost.

This isn't about anything beyond "what is an Indian."

If your answer involves a 3rd party, your head is in your posterior. Why does ANYONE care about federal recognition? "$$$." Now, I'm fine with that but admit what you are: like KiowaKat, a racial whore.

The truth is that those who wail the most about the Federal government's ability to define who/what they are remain those who -- invariably -- have the weakest bloodlines and hark back to rolls to justify a meager quantification like 1/∞.

At this point, I just don't care and, if we truly control our own destiny, neither should ANY of us.

But we're lead around by the $$$.

That's OUR weakness as Native people. Until we get past it, we'll continue to fight each other.
Zeke is offline  
Old 12-24-2011, 05:25 PM   #53
were home
 
2lineCarrandMorgan's Avatar
 
Items GuitarElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: TX,Austin
Posts: 7,293
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 30,091.23
Savings: 1.00
2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute
2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute
I like KiowaKat and wanted her back here and said so in a few words please don't talk ill of her in the manner that you did Zeke she is right to her understanding and i don't think that you in one post speak of fight and then call out a woman anyway why don't you have a happy day today and rest from your own angry words
__________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass..It's about learning to dance in the rain. for me and the wolf
2lineCarrandMorgan is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 12:55 PM   #54
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scabbraidz View Post
I'm guessing this is the video?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAaxi...eature=related

The title of the video is, "creek indians". Not, "Town Creek Mound Powwow". Anybody that saw the title and then the contents of the video(especially that dude at the beginning) would think what MagicalOillusions did. The description ain't even better just says, "Indian Pow wow"...
Well the funny part was the guy himself did not even know what tribe his people are from and only recently looking for his native side.

The people in that video is actually the Federal Eastern Band of Cherokee. If he asked where the REAL Indians are to them in person they would of pulled out a Federal Recognigtion card on him.

Town Creek mound is actually on the Sara/Cheraw (Siouan speakers) historical land which was the neighbors to the Cherokee. I'd say it's around a 1 to 1 and a half hr drive from the Cherokee reservation. The Sara/Cheraw was incorparted into the Saponi tribe at Fort Christanna, where their children was held as hostages in the Virginia boarding school of the 1720 time frame.

Many of the locals have shortened it to just "creek".
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 01:35 PM   #55
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 15,762
Credits: 123,607.30
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Well the funny part was the guy himself did not even know what tribe his people are from and only recently looking for his native side.

The people in that video is actually the Federal Eastern Band of Cherokee. If he asked where the REAL Indians are to them in person they would of pulled out a Federal Recognigtion card on him.

Town Creek mound is actually on the Sara/Cheraw (Siouan speakers) historical land which was the neighbors to the Cherokee. I'd say it's around a 1 to 1 and a half hr drive from the Cherokee reservation. The Sara/Cheraw was incorparted into the Saponi tribe at Fort Christanna, where their children was held as hostages in the Virginia boarding school of the 1720 time frame.

Many of the locals have shortened it to just "creek".
I lived in NC for almost three decades. I know a lot of the dancers who traveled from Florida to New York. I know many of the dancers from Cherokee. Will, Beaver, Antonio, blah, blah, blah.

I did not recognize any of those dancers in the Town Creek video. Why did they go get a drum from Virginia when Stoney Creek, Southern Sons, Red Wolf, the drum from Fayettville (some of the kids of the original Running Water Singers), Kau-ta-nohs (sp) all live REAL close to Mt. Gilead? Hope you don't say it's bcause Eastern Bull is a better drum.

Don't be putting the people from Cherokee or any of the tribes from NC in the Town Creek mix. Look at the dancers. They are mostly white people. That 'powwow' was always known as a hobbyist powwow.

Now go and look at that video. Those boys from Qualla Boundry only break out the biggest, baddest eagle feathers and beadwork. The dancers in the video are wearing turkey feathers! Now tell me how sacred the turkey is to the Cherokees.

ECBN...you got a lot to learn about being an NDN...cuz u sure can't get over on one with all this smoke you are blowing.

Why aren't you happy being what your mama and daddy raised you?
__________________


Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman

Last edited by Joe's Dad; 12-25-2011 at 01:46 PM..
Joe's Dad is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 02:24 PM   #56
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lineCarrandMorgan View Post
I like KiowaKat and wanted her back here and said so in a few words please don't talk ill of her in the manner that you did Zeke she is right to her understanding and i don't think that you in one post speak of fight and then call out a woman anyway why don't you have a happy day today and rest from your own angry words

Carrand, you are aware Kiowakat aka Kathy has been publically attacking Metis people? One example is The Thunder Bird Society who basically call themself Metis, they would always go around teaching communties native history of the areas, and they did sell a few crafts here and there, nothing big. Well they was collecting money to send to the Lakota people so the children could have food and clothes and the elderly could stay warm in the winter.

I've seen several of these Thunder bird society members and they look more Indian than Kiowakat. Kiowa Kat started sending letters to locations to keep them from being able to attend events, she even stopped them from being allowed to be a part of the "indian heritage festival" in Missouri.

She also publically attacked one of Missouri's oldest and most respected Native americans, Grandmother coyote. Grandmother Coyote is 86 years old. If you have never seen Grandmother then you really should because she carries alot of native blood. Grandmother's whole life has been Native teachings and upbringing. She is one of the nicest and sweetest women you will ever meet. Even after Kathy attacked her, Grandmother would not speak hasrshly back. Anyone who has been to Native events in the Ohio and Missouri area know who this woman is and many elders in the Federal tribes is good friends of Grandmother, they even invite her for visits.

For well over 40 years Grandmother has been a part of the Native events in the Missiouri and Ohio area. She is a story teller, she is usually found sitting in a chair speaking to the children and trying to tell them of the Native people.

Before Kiowa Kat ever came to Missiouri, there was Grandmother. Before Kiowa kat was even born, there was Grandmother. Maybe the younger generations do not know who Grandmother Coyote is, but the grey hair elders know her very well and love her dearly.

Never once has anyone ever harassed her. Well apprently Kiowakat and some reporter started working on a plot to get Grandmother ( a 86 year old lady) removed from the native communities and publically calling her a fraud and fake. The only thing they could do was try and say Grandmother altered her birth cert, which shows white then was crossed out and then red added. This was NOT done by grandmother. We do not know who did this. Kathy aka Kiowa kat even went to local papers to "Expose" Grandmother. I promise if you ever met grandmother you would never want to harass her. I encourage you to go meet her in person and then come back and tell me she is not Native american.

Now here is what was found out about Kiowa kat herself. She claimed her mother was full blood Kiowa which was proved false. If Kiowa kat's mother was full Kiowa then she is the whitest 1/2 blood native I have ever met. Anyone who has met KiowaKat in person will tell you she is no where near 1/2. From the pictures I have seen, her kids and grand kids are blonde hair blue eyed. She told the newspaper that she denounced her indian heritage and claimed to be white until just a few years back. She told the local newspaper that people in Missiouri called her a "savage" and that is was not a fad to be indian in the 1970's. This is the reason she told the newspaper for why she has always claimed to be white. Ok big flaw in that, I know tons of Missiouri native people who look way more indian than Kathy and they will tell you flat out they never once heard the word Savage used in Missouri. There is many people on this message board from Missouri, you can ask if anyone called them Savage.

For the 1970's not being any indian fads going on, may I not remind you of the hippies and flower childs. May I not remind you of the american indian movement. May I not remind you that many of our native people's greatest achievements rose in the 1970's. In fact the 1960's and 1970's was the time when being indian was at it's height. Native crafts was having the highest sales ever in those years.

So something is wrong with her story about why all this time Kiowakat claimed she was white and would not claim indian. So all this time that Kiowa Kat was claiming she was white, people like Grandmother was out showing full pride in Native Heritage and was actually educating the public. Now here is something that is interesting, About the time Kiowa kat started accepting and claiming she was indian, she started "selling" native crafts and making money off it. It was like over night Kiowa kat became a "instant" indian...started selling crafts and then running up to all the Missiouri native elders and waving her "federal" card around in their face and telling people to not let them represent native heritage.

Now here is what Kathy does not tell people, the federal card she has, is for the Kiowa tribe ONLY. Kathy is trying to make people in Missouri believe her federal gives her a free pass to every native culture and heritage which it does not. That card shows that her heritage and culture is Kiowa tribe only. Missouri's native culture and heritage has nothing to do with Kiowa. Kiowa is known as a plains tee pee tribe. They was in Western Oklahoma, North west Texas, and eastern colorado. The native heritage there is nothing like in Missouri or the other mound builder people. I've never really heard of any Kiowa's or cheyennes in Missouri till the mid 1900's. So what she is doing is going into a state that has nothing to do with her heritage, language, housing style, dress style, religion, etc....and publically trying to attack the local native communties' elders there calling them wanna be's and fakes.

Kiowa Kat has this guy from the cheyenne tribe helping her with these attacks in Missouri. Again Cheyenne is part of the Tee Peee plains people. Their areas was South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska, Colorado, and Kansas. The Federal card that man helping her has does not pertain to the Missouri native history either.

If you do not believe me then do a quick google test, google "Cheyenne mound" or "Kiowa mound". See what pops up.

So since Kiowakat and her friend has no Federal card for mound builder tribes, has no federal card for Missouri tribes. Why is she wondering around the Mound builder's homeland messing with mound builder descendants? Cahokia is our homeland. It is pretty much our most sacred land. It has nothing to do with Kiowakat's people so she has no right coming onto our homeland, our most sacred land, to bother our people there.

Kiowakat and her friend can not even get any recognigtion in Missouri. Now I do not know what kind of up bringing she had, I'm guessing was more of the "italian" up bringing since her father is Italian. Where I come from and my up bringing, you do not harass the grey haired elders, and you sure do not go onto other un related tribe's most sacred land to harass the local native communities there. My up bringing has always been that them 2 things is the most charished rules of our people. Seriously who does that and can still claim they was brought up in the native ways and say they speak for the Native people?

My up bringing teachings came from Levi Walker (Chippewa and Ottawa elder) and Senoya teal (my grandmother, and yes thats a REAL creek name of the wind clan).
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 02:37 PM   #57
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
I lived in NC for almost three decades. I know a lot of the dancers who traveled from Florida to New York. I know many of the dancers from Cherokee. Will, Beaver, Antonio, blah, blah, blah.

I did not recognize any of those dancers in the Town Creek video. Why did they go get a drum from Virginia when Stoney Creek, Southern Sons, Red Wolf, the drum from Fayettville (some of the kids of the original Running Water Singers), Kau-ta-nohs (sp) all live REAL close to Mt. Gilead? Hope you don't say it's bcause Eastern Bull is a better drum.

Don't be putting the people from Cherokee or any of the tribes from NC in the Town Creek mix. Look at the dancers. They are mostly white people. That 'powwow' was always known as a hobbyist powwow.

Now go and look at that video. Those boys from Qualla Boundry only break out the biggest, baddest eagle feathers and beadwork. The dancers in the video are wearing turkey feathers! Now tell me how sacred the turkey is to the Cherokees.

ECBN...you got a lot to learn about being an NDN...cuz u sure can't get over on one with all this smoke you are blowing.

Why aren't you happy being what your mama and daddy raised you?

You may want to look at that video again, There is Eastern band of Cherokee in that video. There may have also been 2 dudes from Nanesmond. But the event itself was inter tribal.

I was raised by Senoya Teal. I guarantee that you was raised around more white people than me. I would bet on that. I was not around white people culture, most I got to white people culture was on tv lol I guarnetee you come to where I was born and raised you will not see even 1 white person for 3-4 miles at least. In the schools I went to you will not see any white people there either. My family has REAL indian names, now what was your "indian" families names lol. So do not pull the indian card out on me, you won't win that one lol.

What tribe are you even with? Just off the bat I'm going to say one of the tribes that changes their tribe name like every 10-20 years or so since you claim your from North Carolina. My family has never changed their ancestorial tribe names even once. So please do not pull the indian card here.

I'm going to also take a wild guess and say your from one the groups in NC that has borrowed most of their stuff from more western tribes just to claim your more indian than the other people right? Because that IS the trend in North Carolina. Out of all the tribes in NC, how many has even one dance that is not found in every other tribe in the USA? My family has not once borrowed ANYTHING from a western culture. Can you say the same about yours? In your mind you probally think borrowing the Jinggle dress (Ojibwa btw) makes you more indian than people who do not borrow. Your also probally still thinking NC and Va drummers sat outside the circle right and think historically they all sat around one big drum with one stick also right? I love when people get their Native history and culture from a dvd then use it in their pow wows attempting to pull the "indian" card lol

Last edited by ECSN; 12-25-2011 at 03:47 PM..
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 02:56 PM   #58
were home
 
2lineCarrandMorgan's Avatar
 
Items GuitarElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: TX,Austin
Posts: 7,293
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 30,091.23
Savings: 1.00
2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute
2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute
she not on the board to defend she self from your out loud talks against her and as far as im concerned i stand by my words and i did ask my old man if he had knows a woman named Grandmother Coyote ,he heard the name before but did not remember in what content
also practically the whole county of Canada talk against Metis people really i dont think i know you well anuff to talk about anything more than hello and see you laters
__________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass..It's about learning to dance in the rain. for me and the wolf
2lineCarrandMorgan is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 03:28 PM   #59
Teen Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scaleECSN is off the scale
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 421
Credits: 2,603.11
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lineCarrandMorgan View Post
she not on the board to defend she self from your out loud talks against her and as far as im concerned i stand by my words and i did ask my old man if he had knows a woman named Grandmother Coyote ,he heard the name before but did not remember in what content
also practically the whole county of Canada talk against Metis people really i dont think i know you well anuff to talk about anything more than hello and see you laters
Well grandmother was not able to defend herself when KiowaKat was going around calling all these business' trying to steal Grandmother Coyote's heritage from her now was she. Grandmother had to hear from other people that Kiowakat who was not even known in the Missouri community until recently had been going around saying all this racist crap behind grandmother's back. A 40 year old women attacking a 86 year old woman, yeah thats a person who is the voice of native people huh? I don't think so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucky525/4917008453/


If my family even just heard I had harassed a grey hair elder ( white, black, native, chinesse, etc) they would slap me across my face then drag me by my ear to that elder and force me to apologize face to face. Attacking grey hair elders is NOT what our up bringing is. There is no honor in harassing elders.
ECSN is offline  
Old 12-25-2011, 03:42 PM   #60
were home
 
2lineCarrandMorgan's Avatar
 
Items GuitarElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: TX,Austin
Posts: 7,293
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 30,091.23
Savings: 1.00
2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute
2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute2lineCarrandMorgan has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Well grandmother was not able to defend herself when KiowaKat was going around calling all these business' trying to steal Grandmother Coyote's heritage from her now was she. Grandmother had to hear from other people that Kiowakat who was not even known in the Missouri community until recently had been going around saying all this racist crap behind grandmother's back. A 40 year old women attacking a 86 year old woman, yeah thats a person who is the voice of native people huh? I don't think so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucky525/4917008453/


If my family even just heard I had harassed a grey hair elder ( white, black, native, chinesse, etc) they would slap me across my face then drag me by my ear to that elder and force me to apologize face to face. Attacking grey hair elders is NOT what our up bringing is. There is no honor in harassing elders.
most the ppl your fussing with are respected elders here
__________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass..It's about learning to dance in the rain. for me and the wolf
2lineCarrandMorgan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello I am Hummingbird from Fl. hummingbird45 Introductions 140 01-17-2012 02:40 PM
United Keetoowah Band Of Cherokees Josiah Native Issues 32 12-14-2011 05:29 PM
List of Fraudulent Cherokee/Chickamuaga's kiowakat Native Issues 106 08-01-2011 11:03 AM
A Resolution Opposing Fabricated Cherokee "tribes" And "indian's" Josiah Native Issues 34 03-04-2010 05:29 PM
Cherokee House Bill introduced WhoMe Chit Chat 12 07-12-2009 08:19 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery