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Old 12-26-2011, 05:04 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
LOL
Look at the Dates on the Freedman Video that issue was resolved a few weeks later they were allowed to vote and they Voted Chad Smith out! Why not post that too that would have made the story more complete! Instead of only posting what got your Point across... But then the truth is not News Worthy cause I did not see the News Cameras and all the reporters showing that bit of the News few weeks later!!!
If your going to debate you must read and know your subject!!!
Joe's dad is the one who wanted to see a Eastern tribe dis enrolling people. I also stated I had already proved that.


The real truth is, it takes people like me to make this stuff public.

As for the Saponi issue, Remeber it was your group who first called them fake and frauds. Your actually the one who brought them into this topic, Go back thru this topic and see who you called fake and frauds. Instead of posting the names these tribes used awhile back, you might want to look and see what name those tribes you post have started calling themself today.

Indians of Person county is now Sapony.

The Freedman video I posted was posted 3 months ago.

Sept 2 2011.

This one is from June 2011 in a "debate"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTIdN2v0AcM

The issues I speak about is not some fairy tell made up stuff, the issues I discuss is REAL issues that is going on in Native American communties. Some people can get mad all the want and try to hide these things I speak about, but will not change the fact that what I say IS the truth. If people want to get mad then they should get mad for not being told both sides of the story.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:51 AM   #102
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[QUOTE=Joe's Dad;1505372]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Goot Song I agree where was this? Only two dancers?[/QUOTE

It was a dance off.
Ahhhh So makes sense
LOL
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:52 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Joe's dad is the one who wanted to see a Eastern tribe dis enrolling people. I also stated I had already proved that.


The real truth is, it takes people like me to make this stuff public.

As for the Saponi issue, Remeber it was your group who first called them fake and frauds. Your actually the one who brought them into this topic, Go back thru this topic and see who you called fake and frauds. Instead of posting the names these tribes used awhile back, you might want to look and see what name those tribes you post have started calling themself today.

Indians of Person county is now Sapony.

The Freedman video I posted was posted 3 months ago.

Sept 2 2011.

This one is from June 2011 in a "debate"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTIdN2v0AcM

The issues I speak about is not some fairy tell made up stuff, the issues I discuss is REAL issues that is going on in Native American communties. Some people can get mad all the want and try to hide these things I speak about, but will not change the fact that what I say IS the truth. If people want to get mad then they should get mad for not being told both sides of the story.
Sure and the Election was just AFTER the Videos

LoL
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:52 AM   #104
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More my Style!
Southern Singing by RedRock Crossing and Many Okies dancing
Especially the Green Hornet LOL




Trot Song BTW

Last edited by Josiah; 12-26-2011 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:40 PM   #105
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@Josiah wonderful i love seeing the dance and the trees
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:47 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
This thread was started for this discussion. So that we kept this issue here.

I've also been on this site longer than you.

I also do not see you telling the wanna be hunters to start their own message boards now do you yet they are the ones starting all the posts that attack native people.

Alot of people have stopped posting on here because of the hate being posted by the wanna be hunters. Many of the original posters refuse to come here anymore.

You also have opened at least 4 other accounts to keep posting here.

Of course, you must have your own justification for doing that.

People will stop posting here when the posts have no useful info.

You complained about previous attacks against you, yet in this very thread you attack others over personal and family matters.
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:58 PM   #107
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You also have opened at least 4 other accounts to keep posting here.

Of course, you must have your own justification for doing that.

People will stop posting here when the posts have no useful info.

You complained about previous attacks against you, yet in this very thread you attack others over personal and family matters.

Yes! He attacked me. He, and his other accounts, should be banned!!!
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:06 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
You also have opened at least 4 other accounts to keep posting here.

Of course, you must have your own justification for doing that.

People will stop posting here when the posts have no useful info.

You complained about previous attacks against you, yet in this very thread you attack others over personal and family matters.

And the proof I have more than one account is where? lol

I have had this account since 2008.

There is quite a few people that has been on this site since this site started which knows me in person.

So let's see, your going to base this idea on that I speak on the same issues that thousands of others state as well. This same issue is being discussed on every single native american message board. Hundreds of people have been all over the news around the USA protesting these same issues I have stated. All the stuff I discuss have been factually proven.

So now the only thing you have to use against me is coming up with a "idea" with no factual backing for it to try and shut me up instead of using facts to use against me. This is a tactic often brought about by people that is refered to as "sore losers".


Joe's dad stated clearly he is from Arizona Native people which has no basis to North Carolina native people or their history. Yet he will go to North Carolina and say who is or is not indian. This would be the same thing as a Cherokee moving onto the Lakota reservation then telling the Lakota people who is or is not Lakota or even trying to "govern" the Lakota people on their own land. That would not be met without a "defense".

Josiah has admited the stuff I speak about is true as far as the Cherokee being known for smear campaigns.


So now I guess you are going to say all these thousands of people who say the same things I do, are all me also right?
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:14 AM   #109
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Yes! He attacked me. He, and his other accounts, should be banned!!!
And that is your defense when you get exposed right? You can't justify why your mingling in North Carolina native affairs when you have no heritage link to North Carolina's native heritage.


That speaks volumes if that is all you can do to defend why your in North Carolina trying to say who is or is not indian in North Carolina.

Now for your information, Attack deals with a first strike. How many times have you initiated calling someone a non indian or made fun of a person for being indian without even asking that person how they claim to be indian.


How many times has a person come on here being peaceful and not harassing anyone, and they get "ganged" up on by the "wanna be" hunters? And the justifacation in that?


I'm sorry but you can not numerous times attack people, go denouncing people's heritage, go onto other people's lands and try to falslely say those are your people and you can govern them. Then go and claim your the one being attacked when they say something back to you in a attempt to defend themself. Sorry in the real world the victim is not the attacker. A bully does not get the option of crying they are the victim.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:50 AM   #110
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Now there is a treaty signed by several Western tribes and several Eastern tribes that does state the western tribes are NOT to come onto the Eastern tribe's areas to get into Eastern tribe's affairs.

I'll go thru my records to get the exact source and wording later.


Another thing Which these Western Federal tribes like to use against Eastern tribes to claim they are fake etc, is the Removal from East to West. There is many things they do not tell you as to what them removal acts actually state. Now they would like you to believe that if you did not get removed you gave up your right to claim Indian, gave up your right to continue your heritage and culture, etc etc. That is far from the truth.


In Andrew Jackson's Second Annual Message this is some of the stuff stated.

"It will separate the Indians from immediate contact with settlements of whites; free them from the power of the States; enable them to pursue happiness in their own way and under their own rude institutions; will retard the progress of decay, which is lessening their numbers, and perhaps cause them gradually, under the protection of the Government and through the influence of good counsels, to cast off their savage habits and become an interesting, civilized, and Christian community." "He is unwilling to submit to the laws of the States and mingle with their population."

Ok to brake this down for you, Andrew Jackson is talking about any indians in the east which has been fighting with the white settlers and continue to refuse to follow the laws of the USA government and states. The ones being removed is being removed so they can continue following their own laws and not have to follow USA and State laws. That is what these removals was pertaining to. The removal actually did not pertain to the indians which was living among the white settlers, worked among the white settlers, and was following the USA and State laws.

A majority of tribes on the east had already became tribulary to the USA Government and states and thus their tribes did not get removed and they continued to use their tribe name. Which proves if the indians wished to continue following laws and not fight with the white settlers, they could keep their tribal name, continue using their race, continue their heritage and culture. So the removal had no basis on this. It's only basis was on if you wanted to follow tribe law or USA government law, that is the only thing this removal effected.


As far as I know Creek indians did not even sign a removal treaty in the 1830's, and as far as I know in the 1830's alot "voluntarly" went to oaklahoma except for a few that got snatched up being thought to be Cherokee. There was around 15,000 creeks that the war department was told to remove to Oaklahoma however those was the ones warring with white settlers and refusing to follow USA and state laws, they was not part of the ones that was being peaceful.


If you look at villa rica, Ga history you'll see that Creek's was living among whites and working beside the white settlers peacefully and they every year in the 1830's would have a 3 day festival in Autumn in which the white settlers was invited to and they celebrated together. These type of indians would not of been forcefully removed as far as the actual removal acts and andrew jackson stated.

In fact the war department protected indians that had decided to follow USA and state laws and to not fight with the white settlers. Many of the white settlers even protested against the Removal completely, these white settlers was known for trying to protect any indians that was being threatened with forced removal.


Never once did the removal of the indians pertain to denouncing race, tribe name, culture, or heritage. It only pertains to following USA and state laws or wishing to go to oaklahoma to NOT follow USA and state laws. so basically the ones that did not end up in Oaklahoma became Tributary to the USA Government and would be more or less called USA indians while the Removed indians would more or less be called "non" USA indians.

So by wanna be hunters going to non federal tribes on the east coast and saying they are fake for not being removed, stating they gave up their indian race, heritage, tribal name, cultural etc by not removing is not telling the truth. In fact, going by what the USA government states about those that was removed, if they themself come off the lands out west and come back into the East, they themself are giving up their Indian laws etc and stating they want to become USA and State indians also and have no say so over the non recognized native people's indian status.

It is always quite funny what the wanna be hunters do not tell you.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:27 AM   #111
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And the proof I have more than one account is where? lol
...
The proof is in the server log.


Quote:
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And that is your defense when you get exposed right? You can't justify why your mingling in North Carolina native affairs when you have no heritage link to North Carolina's native heritage.
...
Go back and read his posts - he was married to a native from North Carolina!
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:13 PM   #112
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The proof is in the server log.




Go back and read his posts - he was married to a native from North Carolina!


That is his wife not him, he himself has only been in NC around 25 years. He has not even stated any tribe names either. Marrying into a North Carolina tribe does not make her heritage your own. If his kids wanted to enroll in that tribe the mother is from, could she use her father? no. Her ancestors is not his ancestors.

Point made, case closed.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:17 PM   #113
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So who are YOUR ancestors?
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:01 PM   #114
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Now that I called out the proof about your multiple accounts you don't seem to dispute it.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:03 PM   #115
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So who are YOUR ancestors?

My Ancestors,

Senoya Teal (Creek/Coweta)
John Basse (Nansemond)
Susanna Collins (Saponi/Sara)
Cate Collins (Mattamuskeet/Saponi)
Andrew "Drury" Jeffries (Catawba)
David O'neil (Kinnakeet)
Issac Little (Hatteras/Croatoan)
Mary Payne (Saponi)
Col Samuel Jordan and Elizabeth Fleming (in-laws to the Pamunkey)
Mary Reese Harris (Catawba)
Samuel Cherry (Tuscarora)
Thomas Blair (in law to the Pamunkey..possibly Pamunkey himself)
Joseph Allen (Indian trader with the Cherokee)
William Dobbins (His family lived on Monacan lands in early 1700's)
James Gray (In law to the Pamunkey..possible Pamunkey blood himself)
Walter Newman (Long hunter/Indian trader/Surveyor and for whom the Melungeon indian's mouantin ridge is named for, one of the first white's to enter Tennesse for the English, his descendants later had relationships with Chief William Mcintosh of the Creeks, so much that Chief Mcintosh named his son Daniel "Newman" Mcintosh).


Do you wish for me to keep going?
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:19 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN
And that is your defense when you get exposed right? You can't justify why your mingling in North Carolina native affairs when you have no heritage link to North Carolina's native heritage.
Now why does this all sound so familiar? Oh yeah, historystudent used the same rationale with me. Seems our friend here likes to limit the contributions to his very one sided arguments. Like I said, he's using a a 20 pound sledge hammer to hit a gnat. Wait for it JD, this character will create a few new accounts and follow you around the boards.

ESCN/historystudent or who ever you are today, in just a short time period, your rants, attacks and cuts and pastes have done the good people of the east much harm. You have presented yourself in nothing more than the very stereotype of what folks in your position are seen to be - overzealous with an enlarged sense of entitlement.

As I have said many times before, if you feels your community requires acknowledgement from the Feds, then instead of arguing and attacking people of a website, why not take that energy and focus on lobbying? (however, I really hope you don't because your volatile temperament might have all Indians look like spoiled school children throwing a temper tantrums at the first sign of a rejection.)

Here's a few things you might want to consider in your future endeavours to get your point across:

1. Learn how to spell and punctuate your written material. Your message gets lost in the wall of text you insist on posting and spelling mistake make you look like a rank amateur;

2. Breaking your thought processes to attack and counter attack those who question you, serves no purpose except to make you appear to have a weak argument. If you pay attention to cases argued in the Appellate levels of courts, you will never see a party diverge from their arguments once they answer a question from a justice;

3.Be professional if you want people to take you seriously. This sabre rattling or as I call it "hands bags at dawn" duelling is only succeeding in making yourself look like a teenager with hormonal angst;

4. Make sure you cite your reference material and if you make an assertion, be prepared to back it up with data, detail and conviction if questioned on it. Don't fall back on the default of "poor me" when the heat is lit under your contention - remember attack the idea not the man;

5. Know your constituency. Attacking the very people who could be your allies and mentors, is not clever and comes under the guise of you just being either brave or stupid. Likewise, if you are going to "sing to the choir" make sure that the choir really wants to hear your songs. You do have a tendency to bore the teats off folks with your rambling and repeated message of "us versus them" mentality. However that said, if you are going to behave in a manner that invites personal ridicule, then you also have to be big enough to take it;

6. If people are finding holes in your arguments, then listen to them - check the veracity of their statement and if your point is erroneous, correct it. You'll be taken much more seriously if you contend accurate material and interpretation of it and finally;

7. Don't pretend to have more supporters than you really have. Making up accounts or alluding to a larger group to appear to have support is just immature and loses any credibility you may have in the larger scope of Indian politics. One thing that is a constant with our politics is the question asked, "Who do you speak for?" You seem to have forgotten that one can speak for themselves or right up to an entire nation. If you really want to get your message out and not have counter arguments against it, then I suggest as others have, to create your own website and fill your boots with the your own content. Stop leeching off established sites to conduct your business. All you have done since your presence started on here is repeat the same behaviour with every new persona you create.
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.

Last edited by yaahl; 12-27-2011 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:27 PM   #117
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You can post as much as you want, as long as you stay within the forums rules.

Your activity level is amazing, to say the least.

You went back on Christmas Day and edited many of your posts. That helps.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:34 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
Now why does this all sound so familiar? Oh yeah, historystudent used the same rationale with me. Seems our friend here likes to limit the contributions to his very one sided arguments. Like I said, he's using a a 20 pound sledge hammer to hit a gnat. Wait for it JD, this character will create a few new accounts and follow you around the boards.

ESCN/historystudent or who ever you are today, in just a short time period, your rants, attacks and cuts and pastes have done the good people of the east much harm. You have presented yourself in nothing more than the very stereotype of what folks in your position are seen to be - overzealous with an enlarged sense of entitlement.

As I have said many times before, if you feels your community requires acknowledgement from the Feds, then instead of arguing and attacking people of a website, why not take that energy and focus on lobbying? (however, I really hope you don't because your volatile temperament might have all Indians look like spoiled school children throwing a temper tantrums at the first sign of a rejection.)

Here's a few things you might want to consider in your future endeavours to get your point across:

1. Learn how to spell and punctuate your written material. Your message gets lost in the wall of text you insist on posting and spelling mistake make you look like a rank amateur;

2. Breaking your thought processes to attack and counter attack those who question you, serves no purpose except to make you appear to have a weak argument. If you pay attention to cases argued in the Appellate levels of courts, you will never see a party diverge from their arguments once they answer a question from a justice;

3.Be professional if you want people to take you seriously. This sabre rattling or as I call it "hands bags at dawn" duelling is only succeeding in making yourself look like a teenager with hormonal angst;

4. Make sure you cite your reference material and if you make an assertion, be prepared to back it up with data, detail and conviction if questioned on it. Don't fall back on the default of "poor me" when the heat is lit under your contention - remember attack the idea not the man;

5. Know your constituency. Attacking the very people who could be your allies and mentors, is not clever and comes under the guise of you just being either brave or stupid. Likewise, if you are going to "sing to the choir" make sure that the choir really wants to hear your songs. You do have a tendency to bore the teats off folks with your rambling and repeated message of "us versus them" mentality. However that said, if you are going to behave in a manner that invites personal ridicule, then you also have to be big enough to take it;

6. If people are finding holes in your arguments, then listen to them - check the veracity of their statement and if your point is erroneous, correct it. You'll be taken much more seriously if you contend accurate material and interpretation of it and finally;

7. Don't pretend to have more supporters than you really have. Making up accounts or alluding to a larger group to appear to have support is just immature and loses any credibility you may have in the larger scope of Indian politics. One thing that is a constant with our politics is the question asked, "Who do you speak for?" You seem to have forgotten that one can speak for themselves or right up to an entire nation. If you really want to get your message out and not have counter arguments against it, then I suggest as others have, to create your own website and fill your boots with the your own content. Stop leeching off established sites to conduct your business. All you have done since your presence started on here is repeat the same behaviour with every new persona you create.

I'll give you just one site.

http://www.tribalcorruption.com/

go there and learn something. Make sure you get thru all 4 videos.


Maybe you should start actually seeing the links I post before you suggest there is not alot of people who are saying the same thing's being said here. There is protests beng made around the USA in...you know the REAL world over this same type of stuff.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:58 PM   #119
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ECSN (History Student, et al)

"go there and learn something"? There you go again; insulting a well-respected and highly-intelligent First Nations member of this forum.

Why can't YOU learn something from Yaahl?


OK, waiting for the comeback...5,4,3,2....
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:10 PM   #120
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Quote:
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I'll give you just one site.

http://www.tribalcorruption.com/

go there and learn something. Make sure you get thru all 4 videos.


Maybe you should start actually seeing the links I post before you suggest there is not alot of people who are saying the same thing's being said here. There is protests beng made around the USA in...you know the REAL world over this same type of stuff.
My dear savant, I did not say that there wasn't anyone else singing your song. I said perhaps you yourself, might want to create a website of your own to get your message across. You are using up any goodwill you may have still had by your immature posturing and weak and annoying arguments. You never did answer my first question to you, of who are the we and us you refer to in your earlier posts? Are you the spokesperson for any particular group? Do the rest of these folks you claim are protesting, know that you are posting this? You have done them a great disservice if they haven't sanctioned you to speak for them.

But since we're in the subject of weak arguments, why didn't you post any dates beside your "ancestors" and demonstrate your connection to them. What of your parents? Are they not part of your descendancy? What is their tribal connection? I suspect, as many have done in the past, that your connection to a native ancestor is tenuous and based upon being descended through the "in law" factor.

I see along with your inability to use properly spelled words and punctuation that your reading comprehension level is lacking as well.
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I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.

Last edited by yaahl; 12-27-2011 at 08:05 PM..
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