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Old 12-28-2011, 09:27 PM   #141
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To further go on the "anger" part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y678lY5E7tY

The AMerican Indian movement carried alot of Anger, however made way for alot of Native people's rights and advancements being made.


Here is a video I think alot of Wanna be hunters and "New generation" CNO people should watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVLgwpHSYv0


Wilma was one of the best Principle Chiefs of the Cherokee, she also made it clear the wanna be's was "Non native people". Meaning the wanna be's was not people who was actually native descent.

She also spoke long winded just like most of the other very important people. So people who think speaking long winded is not a leadership quality, then they need to sit down and actually listen to the great leaders of the Native Communities.

She also spoke on how alot of the traditional ways is passing.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:34 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
Kiowakat was brought up so it turned into that discussion for a bit, thats how notice got turned off that.





So let me get this right Joe's dad, you came out to North Carolina probally looking for a way to make money off the NC culture huh lol.

KiowaKat ends up moving out to Missiouri and started trying to make money off the native culture in Missiouri also.

What else do you three have in common? Came to areas you have no heritage connections to, and try to say who is or is NOT indian in areas you are not from.
Wow
Ok now your way off in the Brambles
KiowaKat has lived in Missouri most of her life because she was BROUGHT there by her Family, But still has family and relations that live in Oklahoma! Real NDNS...
The Area where she lives has seen a Large NDN population due to the Relocation Programs that the Gov did in the 50's and 60's.
Alot of culture was exchanged with non-natives people and after the real Ndn's moved back to Oklahoma, these people went off and FORMED into tribes where none had been before.

It was not until the 1990's when the Native Arts and Crafts act was beefed up and the Fight with these Missouri So-Called "Tribes" really began. Because you have it backwards she was not making money they were!
They are the ones that are angry at her for calling attention to there money making deals selling trash to the tourists.

Odd that there were no Tribes in Missouri before 1980!
And today there are over 200!
Many that form into 501c so that they are not taxed!

Yeah One Woman brought them down
LOL
One Woman sells more than 200 tribes

Dude YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

By the way I count her as a Friend, we have sat and ate and talked many times...
We have mutual friends from many Tribes that is what the Ndn World is like.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:42 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
To further go on the "anger" part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y678lY5E7tY

The AMerican Indian movement carried alot of Anger, however made way for alot of Native people's rights and advancements being made.


Here is a video I think alot of Wanna be hunters and "New generation" CNO people should watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVLgwpHSYv0


Wilma was one of the best Principle Chiefs of the Cherokee, she also made it clear the wanna be's was "Non native people". Meaning the wanna be's was not people who was actually native descent.

She also spoke long winded just like most of the other very important people. So people who think speaking long winded is not a leadership quality, then they need to sit down and actually listen to the great leaders of the Native Communities.

She also spoke on how alot of the traditional ways is passing.
Now your using Wilma Mankiller???
Holy Crap you really dont read your stuff...
Umm by the way she worked to get the Freedman ousted if you really knew your stuff you will notice the Tribal Attorney during Her time as Chief was........ Chad Smith!
Dude stick to your own tribe or are you claiming Cherokee Now!!
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:34 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Wow
Ok now your way off in the Brambles
KiowaKat has lived in Missouri most of her life because she was BROUGHT there by her Family, But still has family and relations that live in Oklahoma! Real NDNS...
The Area where she lives has seen a Large NDN population due to the Relocation Programs that the Gov did in the 50's and 60's.
Alot of culture was exchanged with non-natives people and after the real Ndn's moved back to Oklahoma, these people went off and FORMED into tribes where none had been before.

It was not until the 1990's when the Native Arts and Crafts act was beefed up and the Fight with these Missouri So-Called "Tribes" really began. Because you have it backwards she was not making money they were!
They are the ones that are angry at her for calling attention to there money making deals selling trash to the tourists.

Odd that there were no Tribes in Missouri before 1980!
And today there are over 200!
Many that form into 501c so that they are not taxed!

Yeah One Woman brought them down
LOL
One Woman sells more than 200 tribes

Dude YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

By the way I count her as a Friend, we have sat and ate and talked many times...
We have mutual friends from many Tribes that is what the Ndn World is like.
@Josiah thank you
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:04 AM   #145
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Fun fact #2: Wannabees are not actually made of bees!
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:22 AM   #146
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Fun fact #2: Wannabees are not actually made of bees!

man I'm owing a lot of people reps in this thread.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 12:19 PM   #147
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Haven't been on this thread since the last time I posted. Made for a very good morning read!
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:03 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Wow
Ok now your way off in the Brambles
KiowaKat has lived in Missouri most of her life because she was BROUGHT there by her Family, But still has family and relations that live in Oklahoma! Real NDNS...
The Area where she lives has seen a Large NDN population due to the Relocation Programs that the Gov did in the 50's and 60's.
Alot of culture was exchanged with non-natives people and after the real Ndn's moved back to Oklahoma, these people went off and FORMED into tribes where none had been before.

It was not until the 1990's when the Native Arts and Crafts act was beefed up and the Fight with these Missouri So-Called "Tribes" really began. Because you have it backwards she was not making money they were!
They are the ones that are angry at her for calling attention to there money making deals selling trash to the tourists.

Odd that there were no Tribes in Missouri before 1980!
And today there are over 200!
Many that form into 501c so that they are not taxed!

Yeah One Woman brought them down
LOL
One Woman sells more than 200 tribes

Dude YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

By the way I count her as a Friend, we have sat and ate and talked many times...
We have mutual friends from many Tribes that is what the Ndn World is like.
I seen you use the word "Real indians" lol

Which proves my point, you and your CNO friends actually think anyone not you is fake indians.

As for you eating with Kiowakat, I've stated many times you and Kiowakat was friends and work together to harass REAL native americans.

See we don't think just having some magical federal card makes you a REAL indian. See we go by family records. If you and your card carrying friends are the REAL indians, then why does the card carrying indians make up the smallest population of REAL indians? hmmm?

only maybe 10 percent of the REAL indian population has a federal card. 90 percent of the wanna be hunters are running around telling people to buy stuff from them lol. They also jack up prices and want some outrageous prices.


--River Front times
By Chad Garrison Wednesday, Nov 1 2006

Kathy Dickerson grew up in St. Louis in the 1970s, a time when it wasn't "cool" to be an Indian. "The kids in the schoolyard teased me terribly," Dickerson recalls. "They called me a savage. I wanted no part of my Indian blood."

Three decades later, the 43-year-old Dickerson has embraced her ancestry. The daughter of a full-blooded Kiowa Indian woman from Oklahoma and an Italian man from St. Louis, Missiouri.


Last year Dickerson formed the St. Louis American Indian Consortium, a group of Native Americans seeking to monitor who is — and who isn't — a bona fide Indian. Now, after months of planning, the consortium is on the warpath against rival Indian groups that it claims are full of imposters. --


Btw her mother is not a full blooded Kiowa woman. As for her father, Italians have not been in the Missouri area that long. I have also proved that the 1970's was when being indian was actually one of the most popular times to be a indian. Kiowakat is also the only one in Missouri that even claims they was called a savage lol So her story as to why she denounced her indian heritage all this time makes no sense at all.


Now let's take a look at who Kiowakat and her group has been calling a fake indian. Now keep in mind Kiowakat has called this lady a white woman on message boards, then later she tried to claim this lady is a mexican (which I think Kiowakat was not aware mexicans are native americans also)...Kiowakat also was not aware that Seneca's was Iroquis also. Kiowakat also claimed Delores was not a elder either. Kiowakat also claimed no one in Ohio ever heard of her and was not known in the Native communities in Ohio. Let's just see some facts on who Delores is.


http://www.tmvcna.org/3program.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucky52...7624783871630/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucky52...7624783871630/


Yeah that sure looks like a white lady to me lol Sure looks like she is not called a elder by other native americans in the area lol. Looks like alot of Federal card carriers seem to call her a elder also lol


Just goes to show you the mis information Kiowakat will spread just to get people to buy her "crafts" over other native americans lol Pure smear tactics to make a extra buck.


Next I'll show you every mound builder's most sacred land. Just as Black hills is sacred to many of the plains tribes, Cahokia is sacred to many of the Eastern tribes, Cahokia is our mother land. At one time all the mound builder tribes lived there together. In alot of cases, the tribes of the south east migrated out of Cahokia into the south eastern states. You can tell where the Cahokia descendants went by the mounds. So if your people built mounds in the USA, then Cahokia is your home land and is one of the most sacred places to your people. If your people did not build mounds then Cahokia is not your homeland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrVZr-DLHQ

Last edited by ECSN; 12-29-2011 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:23 PM   #149
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:25 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Now your using Wilma Mankiller???
Holy Crap you really dont read your stuff...
Umm by the way she worked to get the Freedman ousted if you really knew your stuff you will notice the Tribal Attorney during Her time as Chief was........ Chad Smith!
Dude stick to your own tribe or are you claiming Cherokee Now!!
This coming from the guy who was on this board not that long ago asking what the UKB was and claimed he has been away from the Cherokee tribe a long time. Yeah oookkk. lol

I let Wilma speak for her self, I gave you the link to a hour long discussion meeting with Wilma. Which she states her issue was with NON indians, she did not say she had a issue with indians that did not have federal cards. Which freedman's in a way would fall in this since alot of freedman's carry no indian blood, they was mostly slaves of indians. Wilma made it clear as to who her "speaker for the CNO" calls wanna be's, and it had nothing to do with indians who had federal cards, it had to solely do with non indian blood.


Btw, if you want to see this "REAL INDIAN" that Josiah speaks of "Kiowakat", google Kiowakat myspace. Take a look at her family. Blonde hair and blue eyes is very common in her immediate family, unlike the people she has been trying to steal the heritage from. That is quite interesting since blue eyes and blonde hair is not a dominate gene. Which is quite interesting for a woman who claims to be 1/2 Kiowa and claims her husband is also Native.

Compare Delores to Kathy and see who you think would be considered a REAL indian. I'm sorry but having a "federal" card does not make a person more indian than a non federal indian.

Mexicans do not carry a federal card, so I guess you would call them fake and fraud indians also.


The truth behind the difference between a federal indian and a non federal indian is only one thing, Federal indians wanted to follow Indian law while non federal indians wanted to follow USA government law. That is the ONLY difference between the two. Nothing else.

Last edited by ECSN; 12-29-2011 at 04:28 PM..
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:01 PM   #151
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Here is two videos you really should watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-VBnO1cTY4


Here is a 30 minute documentry Speaking about the Federal tribes and the unrecognized tribes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8J2DCdAf3Y



That last link I hope everyone does take 30 minutes of their time to actually watch. It will show you that I'm not alone in what I'm speaking about. It will also educate you about how a federal card does not make you more indian than someone without a federal card.


Having a federal card only gives you a right to govern your OWN tribe, a federal card does NOT give you a single right to govern ANY other native people, that card is only for you and your tribe no one else at all. If you attempt to use a federal card to go and harass someone outside your tribe then you are way out of bounds. A federal card does not give anyone a right to call another person a fake or fraud indian. That is NOT included in the Federal indian's rights. When you attempt to do this you are doing nothing more than attacking other native people's freedom and civil rights, you are also attacking their constitutional rights. Since the non federal native people are non federal because they agreed to follow USA and State laws, this means they have a freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and have civil rights, just to list a few things. To come off of a federal reservation where it goes by "indian" laws, and to attampt to harass and attempt to "steal" the heritage of indians not from the "indian" law places, is flat out wrong. The non federal tribes and native descendants are NOT out of their bounds, the federal tribes which come off reservations onto the non federal tribes lands ARE the ones out of bounds. To wave a federal card around in front of a non federal indian who is on their own land in a attempt to destroy their heritage is blantent misuse of that federal card.

Last edited by ECSN; 12-29-2011 at 05:31 PM..
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:39 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
I seen you use the word "Real indians" lol

Which proves my point, you and your CNO friends actually think anyone not you is fake indians.

As for you eating with Kiowakat, I've stated many times you and Kiowakat was friends and work together to harass REAL native americans.

See we don't think just having some magical federal card makes you a REAL indian. See we go by family records. If you and your card carrying friends are the REAL indians, then why does the card carrying indians make up the smallest population of REAL indians? hmmm?

only maybe 10 percent of the REAL indian population has a federal card. 90 percent of the wanna be hunters are running around telling people to buy stuff from them lol. They also jack up prices and want some outrageous prices.


--River Front times
By Chad Garrison Wednesday, Nov 1 2006

Kathy Dickerson grew up in St. Louis in the 1970s, a time when it wasn't "cool" to be an Indian. "The kids in the schoolyard teased me terribly," Dickerson recalls. "They called me a savage. I wanted no part of my Indian blood."

Three decades later, the 43-year-old Dickerson has embraced her ancestry. The daughter of a full-blooded Kiowa Indian woman from Oklahoma and an Italian man from St. Louis, Missiouri.


Last year Dickerson formed the St. Louis American Indian Consortium, a group of Native Americans seeking to monitor who is and who isn't a bona fide Indian. Now, after months of planning, the consortium is on the warpath against rival Indian groups that it claims are full of imposters. --


Btw her mother is not a full blooded Kiowa woman. As for her father, Italians have not been in the Missouri area that long. I have also proved that the 1970's was when being indian was actually one of the most popular times to be a indian. Kiowakat is also the only one in Missouri that even claims they was called a savage lol So her story as to why she denounced her indian heritage all this time makes no sense at all.


Now let's take a look at who Kiowakat and her group has been calling a fake indian. Now keep in mind Kiowakat has called this lady a white woman on message boards, then later she tried to claim this lady is a mexican (which I think Kiowakat was not aware mexicans are native americans also)...Kiowakat also was not aware that Seneca's was Iroquis also. Kiowakat also claimed Delores was not a elder either. Kiowakat also claimed no one in Ohio ever heard of her and was not known in the Native communities in Ohio. Let's just see some facts on who Delores is.


http://www.tmvcna.org/3program.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucky52...7624783871630/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucky52...7624783871630/


Yeah that sure looks like a white lady to me lol Sure looks like she is not called a elder by other native americans in the area lol. Looks like alot of Federal card carriers seem to call her a elder also lol


Just goes to show you the mis information Kiowakat will spread just to get people to buy her "crafts" over other native americans lol Pure smear tactics to make a extra buck.


Next I'll show you every mound builder's most sacred land. Just as Black hills is sacred to many of the plains tribes, Cahokia is sacred to many of the Eastern tribes, Cahokia is our mother land. At one time all the mound builder tribes lived there together. In alot of cases, the tribes of the south east migrated out of Cahokia into the south eastern states. You can tell where the Cahokia descendants went by the mounds. So if your people built mounds in the USA, then Cahokia is your home land and is one of the most sacred places to your people. If your people did not build mounds then Cahokia is not your homeland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrVZr-DLHQ
Wow

Mishmash
Does not make a point!

But hey I like answering your mishmash


You know what I am
You know what KiowaKat is

So what are you?

I dont hide behind an Avatar or "Nickname"
You can look at my pictures and read my posts those are all here on this website... Permnament Records

What are You?

Are you one of those 90% guys on the outside looking in??
I mean I was always told we are special in our Language we call our selfs "The People" say it with Capital Letters and you get the idea what we think of ourselves

What are You??

Do you search in the Far past for connections
What about Your Father??

My Father was Fullblood I say was because he is buried amongst my Kinfolk.

My Grandmother and Grandfather Were also Fullbloods
None Hid out or ran
None
Nobody
We know who we are...

What are you??

You brought up our Heritage...

So what are you??

Everything else you post is just noise now

Answer that Question and we can move on and actually discuss this....
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:28 PM   #153
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Your hillarious, I've answered all of that many times before.

If you have so much full bloods, I would think you would have enrolled with the UKB, the CNO is mainly for those people who can not pass the UKB's blood requrement.

Also, non federal people do not have blood amounts, there is no blood list. Even the Federal Catawba did not have a blood amount list.


Actually, The cherokee had been mixing with whites since the 1600's. Alot of the Cherokee falsly put Full blood on their documents in the late 1800's and especially in the early 1900's. They could of had 2 white grand parents and 1 half blood Cherokee and 1 full blood Cherokee grand parent and would list themself as Full blood. Then their kid would marry another half blood or less and then their kid would claim they was half blood when they was really only 1/4th or less.


The truth about those blood documents, there was no genetics tests etc, they just went by what was wrote down and really was not questioned.


As for running and hiding, 95 percent or more of the Native population never ran or hid anywhere. Alot of that myth came from the Eastern Band of Cherokee, which I believe they claimed they ran and hid, Which when people think about it, if they ran and wanted to hide from the white people, they sure picked a bad location since White's lived all around that Eastern Band of Cherokee location.




There is my Mother's father.



There is my father



And there is my family of Villa Rica, Ga in the 1900's who has lived in Villa rica, Ga and Coweta county, GA since the 1820's as far actual records prove.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:55 PM   #154
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Here is a passage about the History of Villa Rica, GA which can be found in "Mary Talley Anderson (1976), The History of Villa Rica (City of Gold), Privately Published."

Early Villa Rica had a Wild West atmosphere complete with Indians, horse thieves, and vigilante justice. The Creek Indian village was located on Sweetwater Creek east of town. They were hunters, not warriors, and were friendly toward the white settlers eventually taking on work amongst the settlers. Townspeople were invited to Creek celebrations including a three day festival held each autumn with lots of food and activities. At some point later in the 1830s, the Creeks moved to either Arkansas or Oklahoma but local records are unclear whether or not this was by choice or part of the Trail of Tears.




If you compare that to the removal acts, you shall see the Creeks of Villa Rica, Ga did not have to move anywhere. They was not fighting with the whites, and they was following the state laws. Their 3 day festivals was both Creek indians and White settlers.

The only issue in Georgia was land ownership, After the 1830's Indians was not allowed to own land and if it was found out a indian had bought land the state could take it away. So what you had to do was live with white settlers, or marry a white settler and the kid being mixed could take ownership of lands by claiming they had white blood. This is how indians in Georgia and many other states was able to still hold onto land. I've heard this law actually was not being changed till around the 1980's or maybe alil earlier, however I'd have to look thru records to find the exact time this law was changed. My Villa rica, Ga families was marrying into the "mixed" race indian descendants that was moving into Ga from SC, and NC.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:12 PM   #156
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There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

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Old 12-29-2011, 11:41 PM   #158
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Now I seen you mentioned tribes starting up after some of these people of the reservations started showing up.

Here is the real truth behind that.


See all this time alot of the native descendants been just minding their own business, if they needed health care food etc then they applied to assistance the same way the whites and blacks do. See all native people who wanted to stay east of the Mississippi was to be given all the same benefits as the whites and blacks. College scholarships, grants, business loans, food stamps, medicare, etc etc.

So what do we need with federal fundings and programs that was set aside for the indian law native people west of the mississippi river.


Sometimes a few of the kids and women would sell a few crafts here and there in their OWN communties. Was nothing large scale. Alot of the women still did the traditional remedies stuff which was passed down to them from mother to daughter. One of the most known of these was the older women chasing the kids around every summer with tobacco to put on bee and wasp stings lol. The older women preffered powdered forms of tobacco since it made a better paste. Instead of "pow wows" like you see today, theirs was more just family gatherings on weekends. People show up at a elder's house on a friday and stay till sunday. Women all in the kitchen cooking a big feast together. Friends would come and be a part. Family that had not seen each other in a long time would come as well. Families would sleep on the floors, couches, etc during these weekends. These was centered around the elderly family member's houses. We did have some druming, we had the mouth harps, the fiddles, and a few home made things.

That was how alot of the Eastern state's native communties did things. We kept to ourself and did our own things. Around the 1960's and 1970's people west of the mississippi started showing up with "federal" cards. Started pushing their weight around here, started harassing the local native people, disrespecting our elders, in alot of cases these outsiders was showing no respect at all to our elders, coming into our areas wanting to see our birth certificates etc, starting to tell people to ban us in our own communties. And this started the whole East of the mississippi and west of the mississippi issues. We did start seeing these people moving into our areas and then attempting to make money off native culture in OUR communties.

So the local native communties thru the Eastern states started having to make theirself more public and pushing for more of our historical ways, this was a attempt to kept our heritage and identity from being "stolen" by these outsiders. Turkey Tayac was one of the main ones to push for this movement. Alot of this movement is actually traced right back to Turkey Tayac. Turkey Tayac's native blood came from the Collins family, The collins family has cousins in nearly every tribe on the mid to lower east coast, as one cousin talked to another cousin, the movement spread.

When we seen these federal people waving their cards around to push weight around here, alot of us said...ok we might have to push for getting these cards ourself just to keep our heritage.

We started encouraging each other to make visits to national archives buildings etc to collect as many documents as possible on our ancestors etc.

In the 1980's to early 1990's alot of the descendants started up BBS' in order to push this movement further. Alot started putting together their research in booklets and passed to various libraries for other descendants to find free of charge. This was when all the families in all the states started re connecting in large ammounts. This eventually lead to websites like Saponi Town being started.

The New agers is from the "hippies". The Hippies is not part of us and is not part of this movement started by Turkey Tayac. If anything they are part of the San Fransico Hippies.

The Various Cherokee groups that claim to be Cherokee without having any documents, are people who tried to be a part of Turkey Tayac's teachings but they refused to follow the most important of going to national archives buildings etc and collecting documents on their actual family history to keep their history solid. As best as I can tell there is several of them that listened more to the Hippie crowds than Turkey Tayac. Turkey Tayac taught cultural preservation.


As we started talking more to the people that actually grew up on the reservations and never wondered off, they actually started telling us these people from their tribes that is harassing the Eastern native people and disrespecting elders, was people that was not speaking for them, and was generally more associated to the CNO people than the tribes they came from. They told us alot of them was people who had not been on the reservation since they was teenagers.

So Generally speaking these "wanna be" hunters are in most cases not supported nor backed by their own tribal elders. These are supposedly the people who have just wondered off from their tribe, and in most cases wondered off from their tribes at a very early age. Some never have actually lived on a reservation.

Many of the people such as Kiowakat openly admit they harass people going from some "email" sent to them by the CNO. In this case I would wonder why a Kiowa is harassing people because the CNO tells her to, when she should be listening to her Kiowa people. She is not CNO so why take orders from the CNO?


Either way now you know the truth behind why alot of the Eastern tribes have started organizing more and seeking recognigtion more than they had been doing.


Wanna be hunters are mis educating the public about Native people, but the only real people to blame for their actions rests more on the false prophets they follow, which is the people who wondered off the reservations in the 1960's and 1970's in a skeme to make money off the native culture. These people knew there was too much competition in the reservation areas, they knew they could not wave their cards around at their own tribes, so they started picking areas that had no card carriers, moved in then started smear campaignes in a attempt to take out competition. All to make a living off selling native culture in communties they are not connected to. That is the true story behind the Wanna be hunter movement. They will use what ever they can to take native heritage from a fellow native american. they will attempt to drag all their friends in on 1 person, they will use profanities, Racism, insults, and when they are losing in educated discussions they will start claiming they are the victim even though they had been harassing and attacking people for quite some time for no reason at all. One of the biggest excuses they use to justify their attacks is simply "the person said they are native american". Since when does a person embracing their native heritage justify a attack? It does not.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:38 AM   #159
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Your hillarious, I've answered all of that many times before.

If you have so much full bloods, I would think you would have enrolled with the UKB, the CNO is mainly for those people who can not pass the UKB's blood requrement.

Also, non federal people do not have blood amounts, there is no blood list. Even the Federal Catawba did not have a blood amount list.
Oh Really...

Absentee Shawnee 1/4 degree Absentee Shawnee blood
Apache 1/8 degree total Indian blood
Blackfeet 1/4th Minimum Blood Quantum
Caddo 1/8 degree Caddo blood
Cherokee of Oklahoma Any degree-Descendent of tribal member
Cherokee of North Carolina must possess at least 1/16th degree of Eastern Cherokee blood
Cherokee-Shawnee Any degree-Descendent of tribal member
Cheyenne-Arapaho 1/4 degree with at least 1 enrolled parent
Chickasaw Any degree-Descendent of a tribal member
Choctaw of MS 1/2 Mississippi Choctaw
Choctaw of Okla. Any degree-Descendent of a tribal member
Citizen Potawatomi Nation Any degree-Descendent of a tribal member
Comanche 1/4 degree Comanche blood
Creek Any degree-Descendent of tribal member
Delaware Tribe of Eastern Oklahoma Any-degree-Descendent of tribal member
Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma 1/8 degree Absentee Delaware blood
Eastern Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Ft. Sill Apache 1/16 degree Ft. Sill Apache blood
Iowa Tribe of Kansas & Nebraska Any degree-Descendent of tribal member
Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma 1/4 degree Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma blood
Kialegee Tribal Town 1/4 degree Kialegee Tribe of Oklahoma
Kickapoo of Missouri 1/4 degree Kickapoo of Missouri blood
Kickapoo of Oklahoma 1/4 degree Kickapoo of Oklahoma blood
Kiowa 1/4 degree Kiowa blood
Kaw Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Miami Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Modoc Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Navajo 1/4 degree Navajo blood
Osage Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Otoe-Missouria 1/4 degree Otoe-Missouria blood
Ottawa Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Ottawa Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Pawnee 1/4 degree Pawnee blood
Peoria Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Ponca 1/4 degree Indian blood and a parent must be enrolled
Prairie Band Potawtomi 1/4 degree Prairie Band Potawtomi blood
Quapaw 1/4 degree Quapaw Tribe of Oklahoma
Sac & Fox Tribe of Missouri 1/8 degree Indian blood born to member of tribe
Sac & Fox Tribe of Oklahoma 1/4 degree Sac & Fox of Oklahoma
Seminole Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Seneca-Cayuga Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
Sioux 1/4 degree Sioux Blood
Tonkawa Tribe 1/4 degree Tonkawa Tribe of Oklahoma
Wichita 1/8 degree Wichita or Affiliated Tribes
Wyandotte Any degree-Descendant of tribal member
United Keetowah Band of Cherokees 1/4 degree United Keetowah of Oklahoma

As for UKB if you read my post a few years ago alllll the way through you would notice I was asking about Dual Enrollement.
I meet the minimum of course However... They do no allow absentee voting.I like to be involve with my Tribal Government through my vote. Perhaps when I retire and move back to our boundries but then that is my decision...

So all the Blood Quantum threads that have been posted on Powwows.com have been for Naught?? We have just been discussing Nothing LOL
For the most popular threads are I am Cherokee and cant prove it and just after that is Blood Quantum Threads LOL
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:51 AM   #160
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Now I seen you mentioned tribes starting up after some of these people of the reservations started showing up.

Here is the real truth behind that.


See all this time alot of the native descendants been just minding their own business, if they needed health care food etc then they applied to assistance the same way the whites and blacks do. See all native people who wanted to stay east of the Mississippi was to be given all the same benefits as the whites and blacks. College scholarships, grants, business loans, food stamps, medicare, etc etc.

So what do we need with federal fundings and programs that was set aside for the indian law native people west of the mississippi river.


Sometimes a few of the kids and women would sell a few crafts here and there in their OWN communties. Was nothing large scale. Alot of the women still did the traditional remedies stuff which was passed down to them from mother to daughter. One of the most known of these was the older women chasing the kids around every summer with tobacco to put on bee and wasp stings lol. The older women preffered powdered forms of tobacco since it made a better paste. Instead of "pow wows" like you see today, theirs was more just family gatherings on weekends. People show up at a elder's house on a friday and stay till sunday. Women all in the kitchen cooking a big feast together. Friends would come and be a part. Family that had not seen each other in a long time would come as well. Families would sleep on the floors, couches, etc during these weekends. These was centered around the elderly family member's houses. We did have some druming, we had the mouth harps, the fiddles, and a few home made things.

That was how alot of the Eastern state's native communties did things. We kept to ourself and did our own things. Around the 1960's and 1970's people west of the mississippi started showing up with "federal" cards. Started pushing their weight around here, started harassing the local native people, disrespecting our elders, in alot of cases these outsiders was showing no respect at all to our elders, coming into our areas wanting to see our birth certificates etc, starting to tell people to ban us in our own communties. And this started the whole East of the mississippi and west of the mississippi issues. We did start seeing these people moving into our areas and then attempting to make money off native culture in OUR communties.

So the local native communties thru the Eastern states started having to make theirself more public and pushing for more of our historical ways, this was a attempt to kept our heritage and identity from being "stolen" by these outsiders. Turkey Tayac was one of the main ones to push for this movement. Alot of this movement is actually traced right back to Turkey Tayac. Turkey Tayac's native blood came from the Collins family, The collins family has cousins in nearly every tribe on the mid to lower east coast, as one cousin talked to another cousin, the movement spread.

When we seen these federal people waving their cards around to push weight around here, alot of us said...ok we might have to push for getting these cards ourself just to keep our heritage.

We started encouraging each other to make visits to national archives buildings etc to collect as many documents as possible on our ancestors etc.

In the 1980's to early 1990's alot of the descendants started up BBS' in order to push this movement further. Alot started putting together their research in booklets and passed to various libraries for other descendants to find free of charge. This was when all the families in all the states started re connecting in large ammounts. This eventually lead to websites like Saponi Town being started.

The New agers is from the "hippies". The Hippies is not part of us and is not part of this movement started by Turkey Tayac. If anything they are part of the San Fransico Hippies.

The Various Cherokee groups that claim to be Cherokee without having any documents, are people who tried to be a part of Turkey Tayac's teachings but they refused to follow the most important of going to national archives buildings etc and collecting documents on their actual family history to keep their history solid. As best as I can tell there is several of them that listened more to the Hippie crowds than Turkey Tayac. Turkey Tayac taught cultural preservation.


As we started talking more to the people that actually grew up on the reservations and never wondered off, they actually started telling us these people from their tribes that is harassing the Eastern native people and disrespecting elders, was people that was not speaking for them, and was generally more associated to the CNO people than the tribes they came from. They told us alot of them was people who had not been on the reservation since they was teenagers.

So Generally speaking these "wanna be" hunters are in most cases not supported nor backed by their own tribal elders. These are supposedly the people who have just wondered off from their tribe, and in most cases wondered off from their tribes at a very early age. Some never have actually lived on a reservation.

Many of the people such as Kiowakat openly admit they harass people going from some "email" sent to them by the CNO. In this case I would wonder why a Kiowa is harassing people because the CNO tells her to, when she should be listening to her Kiowa people. She is not CNO so why take orders from the CNO?


Either way now you know the truth behind why alot of the Eastern tribes have started organizing more and seeking recognigtion more than they had been doing.


Wanna be hunters are mis educating the public about Native people, but the only real people to blame for their actions rests more on the false prophets they follow, which is the people who wondered off the reservations in the 1960's and 1970's in a skeme to make money off the native culture. These people knew there was too much competition in the reservation areas, they knew they could not wave their cards around at their own tribes, so they started picking areas that had no card carriers, moved in then started smear campaignes in a attempt to take out competition. All to make a living off selling native culture in communties they are not connected to. That is the true story behind the Wanna be hunter movement. They will use what ever they can to take native heritage from a fellow native american. they will attempt to drag all their friends in on 1 person, they will use profanities, Racism, insults, and when they are losing in educated discussions they will start claiming they are the victim even though they had been harassing and attacking people for quite some time for no reason at all. One of the biggest excuses they use to justify their attacks is simply "the person said they are native american". Since when does a person embracing their native heritage justify a attack? It does not.
So when you say West of the Mississippi Are you actually talking about the Southeast?
For there are many Federally Recognized Tribes East of the Miss. Like up in New York State Florida On the Coast up and Down hell for that matter Eastern Band Cherokees are in North Carloina

Narrow this down for me...
Are we Talking States that the Indian Population was Removed in the 1830's Rounded up and Moved?

History Lesson 1,
The Dawes Act, adopted by Congress in 1887, authorized the President of the United States to survey Indian tribal land and divide the land into allotments for individual Indians. The Act was named for its sponsor, Senator Henry L. Dawes of Massachusetts. The Dawes Act was amended in 1891 and again in 1906 by the Burke Act. The stated objective of the Dawes Act was to stimulate assimilation of Indians into American society. Individual ownership of land was seen as an essential step. The act also provided that the government would purchase Indian land "excess" to that needed for allotment and open it up for settlement by non-Indians.
http://public.csusm.edu/nadp/a1887.htm

History Lesson 2,
The Indian Reorganization Act (W'heeler-Howard Act)June 18, 1934Which is also called the Blood Law this was the first offical act requiring Blood Quantum. If you read it you will notice that deep in the act it excludes Tribes that reside in the State of Oklahoma.
http://www.cskt.org/gov/docs/reorganizationact.pdf

History Lesson 3
OKLAHOMA INDIAN WELFARE ACT (1936)The Oklahoma Indian Welfare Act of 1936 (also known as the Thomas-Rogers Act) was an alternative to the 1934 Wheeler-Howard or Indian Reorganization Act. John Collier, commissioner of Indian affairs from 1933 to 1945, wanted to change federal Indian policy from the "twin evils" of allotment and assimilation. His plan sought to rebuild Indian tribal societies, return land to the tribes, rejuvenate Indian governments, and emphasize Native culture. In an attempt to accomplish what Collier called "the New Deal for Indians," Rep. Edgar Howard of Nebraska and Sen. Burton K. Wheeler of Montana introduced the Wheeler-Howard Act into the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate in winter 1934.
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/e...s/O/OK059.html

Conclusion.
Its the Federal Government that has Determined Blood Quantum and Where Indians Live
But through the above acts its Tribal Governments that determine Enrollment...

Read throughly...
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