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-   -   federal recognition for education, housing etc? (http://forums.powwows.com/f26/federal-recognition-education-housing-etc-39581/)

kiowakat 06-25-2007 10:18 PM

federal recognition for education, housing etc?
 
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1219262.html

Josiah 06-26-2007 06:55 AM

Holy Crap


:mad:

apacheheart 06-26-2007 12:51 PM

Yeah,this is bad,but not as bad as these other"tribes" petitioning for recognition in the hopes that they can open a huge casino one day...it all just makes me sick.I guess these people don't realize that the way the gov't gets funds to appease your little tribe is by cutting back funds from the long recognized nations in the country.There is no "extra"money for these small bands that are popping out of nowhere wanting to be recognized,and wanting financial compensation for it.My kids will go to college,but on MY dollar,they will get medical care,but from MY insurance.Have been doing it for years,WITHOUT the gov't's help,and will continue to do so.Recognition should be about who you are,not what you can get,and about making sure your"people"keep the culture and traditions strong,protect our spiritual ceremonies from those who wish to exploit them,and be the caretakers of this land which is ours by right......I've said enough....keep smilin''1

NorthofAda 06-26-2007 04:36 PM

According to the article...

"Most children only know the stereotypes," she said. "We were not savages, didn't live in tepees and printed copies of the Bible in Cherokee and English. In 1839, we were an affluent group living in three- and four-story mansions."

IF that's the case - then why do they claim to need gov't help with housing, education and health care?

Does anybody know anything about this group and what they base their claim for recognition on?

Singing Otter 06-26-2007 04:59 PM

wow
 
I don't know about anyone else but I've never heard of anyone in my family owning 3 or 4 story mansions.

Redstone 06-26-2007 05:23 PM

ditto, what Josiah said.

kiowakat 06-26-2007 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthofAda (Post 940746)
According to the article...

"Most children only know the stereotypes," she said. "We were not savages, didn't live in tepees and printed copies of the Bible in Cherokee and English. In 1839, we were an affluent group living in three- and four-story mansions."

IF that's the case - then why do they claim to need gov't help with housing, education and health care?

Does anybody know anything about this group and what they base their claim for recognition on?

I know about this group, they are in my backyard lol and their bases for federal recognition, is that they are cherokee and nobody can tell them different, I have "Chief" Beverly's family tree (given to me by her family) they wanted people to know that she isn't cherokee and they want her to quit but she won't. the children are of no american indian heritage. these groups here in missouri are taking grants, Beverly's group got half of a million dollars and grant money from ANA to become federal reconized, good news though, the ANA stopped giving them money finally this year, so we'll see how they'll function as a group without grant monies. all these 501c3 groups about 8-10 here in missouri are claiming they are helping to preserve our heritage, sometimes read some of these 501c3's and these group have no ties to any tribes or nations, or even registered. these kind of groups need to be stopped, and I appreciate you guys stopping by and reading this thread, not that you guys can do anything about this but I wanted you guys to be aware.

KSComanche 06-27-2007 04:33 AM

I know this Mike Ballard..
he is a "member" of the "Standing Bear Gourd Dance Society" here in Topeka( bunch of white VA patients that learned a few songs)I have never seen any of them come down to a dance in OK, they'd be laughed out of the place( not realy, but they would very politely be told to sit down).... He is one of the ones who puts on a "show" Pow-wow every fall here. "Shawnee County Intertribal Pow-Wow".......
you can get your watch blessed by a "medicine man" for a dollar there... right out in the arena.... they also like to "break up" the gourd dance with a few inter-tribals to "keep it from being boring"....I lef tin teh middle of the dance the one time I went and havent been back. In other words they are a bunch of wanna-be's and what they are doing is trying to get legitamitized....
I wont say anymore becaue it would not benifit anything and
would be unkind......
But what they are doing does make me sick...:mad:

kiowakat 06-27-2007 07:43 AM

steps to becoming a federal recognized tribes...always seem to fall short hmmmm
 
these missouri so called tribes are filing letters of intent and thats it, they tell their members its in the process (a usual response) after years of not taking another step, these members don't know what the steps are, so they keep giving over money to these groups, in hopes that they become a tribe someday, notice the dates that they filed letter of intent.
again when the Osage moverd out 1800's, there are no Federal or State recongnized Tribes here in Missouri, besides the shawnee that have land here with casino, but their head quarters are in Oklahoma. so my question is why are they even getting to be a tribe in the first place....western Cherokke of Missouir and Arkansas, stole history from the original Keetowah band of Oklahoma and using it for their own. pffft also notice they popped up just in time for casinos...lol

REGISTER OF INCOMPLETE PETITIONS - 77 pursuant to 25 CFR 83.10(d)
(as of February 3, 2006)

191 Western Cherokee NAtion of Arkansas and Missouri, AR (5/1/98 partial doc'n rec'd 5/1/98,6/22/05,9/20/05,12/30/05,1/5/06, awaiting TA ltr)


Research and findings brought to by American Indian Heritage Support Center
http://home.aihsc.info/index.html

Filing a Letter of Intent (FOI) is the first step to petition for federal recognition. This is nothing more than a simple letter stating you'd like to apply. Then the Branch of Acknowledgment and Research (BAR) in the BIA will send your group a "petition packet" containing information and sample forms to guide the research which your group will need to undertake.

You can view a copy of the regulations for USC 25 CFR 83 @
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...5cfr83_05.html


REGISTER OF LETTERS OF INTENT TO PETITION - 138 pursuant to 25 CFR 83.10(d)
(as of February 3, 2006)
100- Northern Cherokee Tribe of Indians, MO (7/26/85)
100a- Sac River and White River Bands of the Chickamauga Cherokee Inidan Nation of AR & MO (9/5/91)
100b- Northern Cherokee Nation of Old Louisiana Territory, MO (2/19/92)
155- Amonsoquath Tribe of Cherokee, MO (2/17/95)
192- Cherokee Nation West of MO & AR (formerly Cherokee Nation West - Southern Band of the Eastern Cherokee Inidans of Missouri and Arkansas) MO 5/11/98
217-Ozark Mountain Cherokee Tribe of Arkansas and Missouri, MO (10/19/99)
220- Saponi Nation of Missouri, MO (12/14/99)
247- Western Cherokee of Arkansas/Louisiana Territories, MO (4/21/01)

Prepared by:
Office of Federal Acknowledgment
Assistant Secretary - Indian Affairs

Josiah 06-27-2007 07:48 AM

Holy Crap

:mad:

Wojapi4Me 06-27-2007 07:57 AM

Beyond the obvious, several things bug me about this group:

First off, this statement by their "chief" -

"Most children only know the stereotypes," she said. "We were not savages, didn't live in tepees and printed copies of the Bible in Cherokee and English. In 1839, we were an affluent group living in three- and four-story mansions."

Ok, so is she saying that our ancestors who did live in tipis and didn't have copies of the bible were savages???

Secondly, I get sick and tired of hearing these people and these groups say that their ancestors hid their Indian heritage. That's just offensive. If that is the truth, which is doubtful, then why would these people be proud of that?? Why be proud of cowards?

These groups should go away.

kiowakat 06-27-2007 08:12 AM

lets look at one of these mission statements.....
 
Remember these people have no proof or link to a tribe. they may have heritage but they are not registered with any tribe or nation...[ Thunderbird Society · C/O Eagle Lodge · PO Box 465 · St. Charles, MO 63302

Our Mission Statement
Membership in the Thunderbird Society is open to any individual, family, or organization subscribing to its aims, purposes, and discipline. It is the purpose of the Thunderbird Society, for our families and others, to preserve, protect, enhance, and propagate our Native American heritage: to teach and demonstrate the history, culture, arts, and crafts of the Native American Indian; to share our personal pride and ancestral knowledge in social gathering and community events; to perform appropriate dance, music and ceremony; ultimately to own and operate a museum and/or cultural center; to host , attend and promote intertribal events. The corporation is organized exclusively for charitable, educational, religious, or scientific purposes within the meaning of section 501 (c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

About The Thunderbird Society
The Thunderbird Society is a non-profit 501(c)3 organization in the state of Missouri, formed to preserve and share the culture of Native Americans. Since 1989, members of this society, which includes persons with and without tribal affiliation or ancestors, have worked to educate the public about the various contributions, beliefs, and customs of our America's indigenous heritage.

The Society is currently organized into four lodges: Eagle (meets in St. Charles area), Red Fox (meets in Columbia area), Sparrow Hawk (meets in Springfield area), and White Elk (meets in Rolla/Salem area). Our newsletter subscriptions and members extend internationally, including many in Indian country. The Thunderbird Society has many intertribal activities during the year. Among these are:

Powwows - These social gatherings are for dancing, singing, visiting, and renewing old or making new friendships. The public is normally invited, as these are wonderful opportunities for us to educate the general public about our beautiful and sacred customs, dances and crafts.


Giveaways - Giving of ourselves to help the less fortunate is an ancient tradition, and the Thunderbird Society participates in giveaways to Native American organizations and individuals during the year, both on and off the reservations.


Programs - Representatives of our group will perform demonstration programs for civic, educational and other groups. These programs can consist of discussions of culture and traditions, native dancing and singing, storytelling, and native crafts demonstrations.


Craft Days - Individual members may, from time to time, hold craft days at their homes. This is a great opportunity to learn about quill work, beadwork, flint napping, leather work and other native crafts.


Our newsletter - The Thunderbird Society News is published bi-monthly in Wentzville, Missouri. The Official Society Notices section will give you the dates for all lodge and society-wide contact information, activities, events, and meetings, and the other sections provide thought-provoking articles, native literature, history, poems, and other information of interest to the Native American of today. The newsletter will also contain a membership form and information on how you can become a member or help the Thunderbird Society achieve its goals. All donations to the Thunderbird Society (except membership fees) are tax-deductible.

Membership in the Thunderbird Society does not require any tribal affiliations or native ancestry. Dues are $15 per year for an individual member or newsletter only subscription, or $20 per year per family. Send your completed membership form to our Society Treasurer:

Jim Goodin
HC 89 Box 351
Winona, MO 65588

Make a Tax Deductable Donation Today
Your donation to the Thunderbird Society is tax deductible since we are a registered Not For Profit organization in the State of Missouri [ 501(c)3 ]. Consult your tax professional for details on how this may benefit your personal situation. The donation is processed through PayPal for safety and security. When it is complete you will be returned to this website. Thank you for your donation. We will put it to good use. Since we have no paid positions in our organization, you donation will go 100% towards Thunderbird Society needs and projects.

hahaha all PO BOXES.....

Talking about Culture Vultures lol, but all these groups that are "claiming" to become a tribe are all like this. why is this and how can we fix it?? before its to late, if you look at the numbers in these groups all over the US, they out number the American Indians....scarey times coming!![/SIZE]

ps beware of the pow-wow pics they show LOL


http://www.thunderbirdsociety.org/

kiowakat 06-27-2007 08:26 AM

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/st...cient-history/


“Mostly (it was) federally subsidized grave desecration,” said Lynda Means, who teaches American Indian history at Lindenwood University in St. Charles and is an elder in the Thunderbird Society, a nonprofit organization that promotes American Indian culture.

“We understand that people wanted to know, but the idea is — why don’t they dig up white people’s cemeteries?” she said.

Jane Livingston, president of the Columbia-Jefferson City area Red Fox Lodge, one of the Thunderbird Society’s four lodges, said that while some American Indians share Means’ view, others try to see the historical benefits of excavations.

“The views of the full-blood traditionalists is very harsh,” Livingston said. “They see it as an insult — the lack of caring, the lack of understanding, the way people dismissed their (religious) views as unimportant.”

However, she said, “Some people recognize it was done for educational purposes, to try to further the knowledge of the prehistory of the United States.”

But if archaeologists once considered the sites “abandoned property,” Vanpool illustrates the more recent appreciation of Indian burials.

“These resources are valuable,” he said. “It’s a limited resource; there is no way to get back a mound once it’s been destroyed, or any archaeological site once it’s been destroyed. … And the preservation of these and the mitigation of damage that might occur to them needs to be thought about before the development occurs.”

NorthofAda 06-27-2007 10:27 AM

AAACK! STOP!!! :kaioken:

The more I hear - the madder I get!

So...they're educating "the general public about our beautiful and sacred customs." If they're not Indian, where did these so-called customs come frome, and if they are Indian and "hid their ancestry" then, again, where did their knowledge of these so-called customs come from?

We have enough stereotypes, misinformation, etc., to overcome as it is, without any of these rogue "Cherokee" groups adding to it.

And our mounds are "valuable resources?" Makes 'em sound like some sort of commodity to be traded or a scientific specimen to be studied, rather than what was an obviously sacred site to someone's ancestors.

In Waukesha, where we live, there once were a lot of mounds constructed by the Potawatami people who lived here. When my 9-year-old was studying Waukesha's history this spring, the book she was reading seemed almost nonchalant about how many mounds were excavated, destroyed or just built over. In fact, the book seemed rather proud that the County Museum is actually erected on the site of the largest mound in the area. No mention is made of what happened to the bones, burial items or other contents of the mounds, whether they were appropriately reinterred or handed over to the Potawatami people for reburial.

The park by the library has 3 intact mounds, but they were originally opened in 1850, "inspected" and then recovered, according to the signage. They sit prominently in the center of the park, and children run up and down them like it's a playground. The park is named for a man named Cutler, who with his brother apparently lived with the Potawatami long enough to learn what crops grew well here and how they dealt with the environment, weather, etc., so that when the US Gov't took over the land and sold it for $1 an acre, they really cashed in.

When we walked through that park the other day, I stopped with my children and we talked about the mounds, how they are sacred to the Potawatami and even though they weren't our ancestors, they were someone's ancestors and as burial sites or sites of other sacred significance, they were not to be climbed on, but to be respected.

I guess when you posted that part about the mounds, kiowakat, you got muh' blood boilin' - sorry about the lengthy rant...

kiowakat 06-27-2007 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthofAda (Post 941069)
AAACK! STOP!!! :kaioken:

The more I hear - the madder I get!

So...they're educating "the general public about our beautiful and sacred customs." If they're not Indian, where did these so-called customs come frome, and if they are Indian and "hid their ancestry" then, again, where did their knowledge of these so-called customs come from?

We have enough stereotypes, misinformation, etc., to overcome as it is, without any of these rogue "Cherokee" groups adding to it.

And our mounds are "valuable resources?" Makes 'em sound like some sort of commodity to be traded or a scientific specimen to be studied, rather than what was an obviously sacred site to someone's ancestors.

In Waukesha, where we live, there once were a lot of mounds constructed by the Potawatami people who lived here. When my 9-year-old was studying Waukesha's history this spring, the book she was reading seemed almost nonchalant about how many mounds were excavated, destroyed or just built over. In fact, the book seemed rather proud that the County Museum is actually erected on the site of the largest mound in the area. No mention is made of what happened to the bones, burial items or other contents of the mounds, whether they were appropriately reinterred or handed over to the Potawatami people for reburial.

The park by the library has 3 intact mounds, but they were originally opened in 1850, "inspected" and then recovered, according to the signage. They sit prominently in the center of the park, and children run up and down them like it's a playground. The park is named for a man named Cutler, who with his brother apparently lived with the Potawatami long enough to learn what crops grew well here and how they dealt with the environment, weather, etc., so that when the US Gov't took over the land and sold it for $1 an acre, they really cashed in.

When we walked through that park the other day, I stopped with my children and we talked about the mounds, how they are sacred to the Potawatami and even though they weren't our ancestors, they were someone's ancestors and as burial sites or sites of other sacred significance, they were not to be climbed on, but to be respected.

I guess when you posted that part about the mounds, kiowakat, you got muh' blood boilin' - sorry about the lengthy rant...


tell me about it, it is so frustrating getting somebody to do something about these groups. I didn't mean to make you upset, I was just trying to make people aware of this situation.....

NorthofAda 06-27-2007 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiowakat (Post 941074)
tell me about it, it is so frustrating getting somebody to do something about these groups. I didn't mean to make you upset, I was just trying to make people aware of this situation.....

No offense - it's a healthy anger, LOL..

I'm glad you brought this to our attention - we need to know what's going on out there. I really didn't realize until recent months how many "pseudo-Indian" groups there are out there and I definitely didn't realize they were trying to get recognition.

There was a group that was popular when I was a kid growing up in Arizona. They called themselves the "Smoki". They were white hobbyists, many of them white collar, Rotary Club types, who actually dressed up in regalia and performed statewide. They came to my grade school when I was a kid - I couldn't figure out why a bunch of white dudes were playing dress-up, but whatever.

Anyway, they didn't just do war dances or grass dances, they were trying to replicate sacred ceremonial dances, like the Snake Dance of the Hopi people and some of the Navajo ceremonials. They still claim on their website to this day...

"This rare group of community-minded individuals changed the landscape of Prescott and the Southwest."

They claim that they were "preserving" the ancient traditions of the Southwestern people. Excuse me, but weren't the Navajo, Hopi and other Southwestern tribes already doing that well enough on their own?

Anway... if you want to see their outrageousness first hand, check out their site...

http://www.smokimuseum.org/

They actually have a museum in Prescott, AZ, where goodness only knows how many artifacts that were in the hands of non-Indian collectors, including Barry Goldwater, a former Smoki who once ran for present, are now sitting behind their glass, instead of in the hands of the tribal peoples that created them...

AACKK!

kiowakat 06-27-2007 01:15 PM

Don't get me wrong, I am happy we have non natives that are enthusiast, used to be called and still are called hobbyist when I was younger, heck I loved to go to Tipton Indiana for their dances in the 70's, they never claimed or thought they were better than you were, they knew and still know how to respect the culture. we have a new breed these groups, I understand they are called wannabes, nothing like these other people (Hobbyist, Enthusiast) that respect our ways. and that's bad that these fake wannabe groups, almost gives all non natives that are trying to help the American Indian a bad rep lol....my personal opinion.

kiowakat 06-27-2007 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthofAda (Post 941096)
No offense - it's a healthy anger, LOL..

I'm glad you brought this to our attention - we need to know what's going on out there. I really didn't realize until recent months how many "pseudo-Indian" groups there are out there and I definitely didn't realize they were trying to get recognition.

There was a group that was popular when I was a kid growing up in Arizona. They called themselves the "Smoki". They were white hobbyists, many of them white collar, Rotary Club types, who actually dressed up in regalia and performed statewide. They came to my grade school when I was a kid - I couldn't figure out why a bunch of white dudes were playing dress-up, but whatever.

Anyway, they didn't just do war dances or grass dances, they were trying to replicate sacred ceremonial dances, like the Snake Dance of the Hopi people and some of the Navajo ceremonials. They still claim on their website to this day...

"This rare group of community-minded individuals changed the landscape of Prescott and the Southwest."

They claim that they were "preserving" the ancient traditions of the Southwestern people. Excuse me, but weren't the Navajo, Hopi and other Southwestern tribes already doing that well enough on their own?

Anway... if you want to see their outrageousness first hand, check out their site...

http://www.smokimuseum.org/

They actually have a museum in Prescott, AZ, where goodness only knows how many artifacts that were in the hands of non-Indian collectors, including Barry Goldwater, a former Smoki who once ran for present, are now sitting behind their glass, instead of in the hands of the tribal peoples that created them...

AACKK!

donation of:

Anasazi
$5000
includes all the above, coffee mug, poster ayeee, a pencil with name on it lol. oh dang now you got me started
HAHAHAHAHA, they even threw in a tribe's name that has disappeared "POOF"

NorthofAda 06-27-2007 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiowakat (Post 941178)
Don't get me wrong, I am happy we have non natives that are enthusiast, used to be called and still are called hobbyist when I was younger, heck I loved to go to Tipton Indiana for their dances in the 70's, they never claimed or thought they were better than you were, they knew and still know how to respect the culture. we have a new breed these groups, I understand they are called wannabes, nothing like these other people (Hobbyist, Enthusiast) that respect our ways. and that's bad that these fake wannabe groups, almost gives all non natives that are trying to help the American Indian a bad rep lol....my personal opinion.


No, there's a distinct difference between the hobbyist and the wannabe. I think the problem with the Smoki was that they were performing dances that were and in some cases still are part of certain tribes' religious activities - dances which are performed privately, and even if spectators are present, they are not allowed to photograph or record any of the proceedings. That'd be kind of like a group of non-Catholics dressing up like priests and having their own mass (then inviting spectators, charging $$, etc.).

Anway, getting back to the original issue...just how much money do these groups think the Federal Gov't has available for Indian people in the first place? There's not exactly an overabundance of services available - look at what's going on with some folks on the reservations. They don't need leftover FEMA trailers - they need a solid infrastructure with heat, fresh water, etc. If a group like these folks in Missouri were to get recognized (and they probably won't), whose children's mouths will they be taking food from? Whose immunizations will they be taking? Who will miss a college education on their account?

If these folks are legitimate (big IF), they admittedly ran and hid when being NDN could cost you your life. They didn't walk with their people through the Trail of Tears - they were holed up in the McMansions somewhere...

To even publicize that they are trying to get something out of the system by claiming legitimacy they are insulting the very culture they claim to promote.

outershell 06-27-2007 02:13 PM

forgive me for not understanding...
are they petitioning the US govt or BIA? who actually decides who's a recognized tribe and who isn't?
what are the chances that they would be recognized?


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