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Old 09-23-2007, 02:03 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Okay, I just looked at that and it's insane. They actually have the BIA listing for rules and regs for a "Real Tribe" and about Fraud's. I couldn't find something that I was looking for though. A friend of mine gave me a listing that he got from the DOI a few years ago listing all the Federally Recognized tribes and I have it put away right now. Is there really a Federally Recognized Tribe called the Saponi anywhere? I know that there is supposedly a Saponi Tribe in NC too. And if you think about it, think of how it's pronounced.LOL That's kind of funny. But they are supposed to be part of the Sioux Nation.

Are you sure you're not talking about the Siouan language similarities and not the Sioux Nation?
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:14 AM   #282
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okay here is an example of what a fake group "nation" operating in Missouri and in 2002 recieved money....for what?....remember we still have no state of federal tribes, nations, clans headquarters here in Missouri....

Federal Assistance for Recipient Category : Nonprofits, Federal Fiscal Year : 2002, Recipient : SAPONI NATION OF MISSOURI, MAHENIPS BAND in state MO, Level of Detail : Summary


Fiscal Year: 2002
Federal dollars: $185,304
Total number of recipients: 1
Total number of transactions: 2
Get list of recipients
Get list of transactions

Top 5 Known Congressional Districts where Recipients are Located
Missouri 8 (Jo Ann Emerson) $185,304

Top 10 Recipients
SAPONI NATION OF MISSOURI, MAHENIPS BAND $185,304

Recipient Type
Nonprofits $185,304
Other $0
Individuals $0
Higher Education $0
Government $0
For Profits $0

Top 5 Programs
93.612: Native American Programs $185,304

Top 5 Agencies Providing Assistance
HHS - Secy. of Health and Human Services $185,304

Assistance Type
Grants and Cooperative Agreements
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:34 AM   #283
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Are you sure you're not talking about the Siouan language similarities and not the Sioux Nation?


JD-You know, I really don't know--honestly. I just know that a woman once came up to me and was telling me that she was a member of the Saponi nation and I said that I had never heard of them (which I hadn't at that time) and she was talking so fast that that might have been what she said and I misunderstood. I have only heard of them a few times, but there are so many others too that I don't know much about. So if I was offensive to anyone, that I am sorry about. I'm just wondering and I don't have my list right in front of me to check.

I do know alot of people of the Sioux Nation and they don't talk about that Tribe much. I've heard a few things, but it's always been in passing.
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:39 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
Are you sure you're not talking about the Siouan language similarities and not the Sioux Nation?

from what I understand JD, I agree with you....Souian
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:02 AM   #285
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Just an FYI---I went looking just so that I knew what was what. I don't know how to put the site on here. But this is what I found out. According to the Wikap(what ever that thing is--you know) it says that the Saponi's are an Eastern Siouan Nation and there are three State Recognized tribes. That's where I got confused. Then I went through the BIA records in the NARA, I just skimmed these records, and I couldn't find a listing at all about the Saponi's. I could have missed something. Like I said--I just skimmed them, but I didn't find any records there on them.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:59 AM   #286
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:34 AM   #287
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blog of current indian issues

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Old 09-23-2007, 10:50 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by weshomenom View Post
28 September Anti-Indian Forum
Filed under: Uncategorized — threeoaks @ 12:00 am
Dating from the early colonial period, one of the methods used by the frothing immigration of Europeans to destroy the American Indian was to divide friendly tribes that had joined together for a common defense, even to the point of causing divisions within a tribe. These divisions were first made through friendly promises, and if that did not work - through threats of military action. Such actions left tribes abandoned by their allies, making for an easier defeat.One more example of history repeating itself, with few paying attention to the stories behind the scenes, is being played out now. And, once more, the same result is most likely to happen. The American Indian is not going to escaped undamaged.
Please recall the Trojan horse amendments attached to H.R. 2786, the Native American housing bill. Thugs in the House of Representatives have threatened the Senate that if the Senate version of the bill does not include the amendments, then no Tribe will receive housing monies for the next five years.
In effect, what the elected representatives in the House are doing is holding all American Indians and Alaskan Natives hostage. This is not only playing a juvenile game, but is no different than a common criminal holding hostages until demands are met. The House of Representatives is also continuing one of the most effective programs used in the past to defeat the American Indian, the destruction of food supplies and burning of houses in villages.
As part of the anti-Indian campaign, the Congressional Black Caucus is holding their annual conference 28-29 September with the theme of “Unleashing Our Power.” A special forum is being presented on 28 September from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM in Room 209-C at the Washington Convention Center. Hosted by Congressman John Conyers and Congresswoman Diane E. Watson (the architect of the Cherokee Nation termination bill, H.R. 2824), the forum is entitled “Pursuit of Justice for the Cherokee Freedmen”. Although apparently concerned about African-Americans without Cherokee ancestry being disenrolled by the Cherokee Nation, please remember that the Black Caucus does not admit members of other ethnic backgrounds on the claim of preserving racial purity. This should not be a racial issue, but one about sovereignty. Unfortunately, the promoters of the Cherokee Nation’s demise have ignored the sovereignty of the Nation and are playing the race gambit.
Designed to indoctrinate Senators, Representatives, and the public into supporting the Cherokee Nation termination, the panelists on the forum consist only of individuals with a biased viewpoint and with personal axes to grind. This would not necessarily be a concern, but any other hearings by Congress on Watson’s termination bill are likely to be sparse or non-existent. This means that those attending the forum will be limited to hearing the pro-termination side of the story. Amazingly, at the same time this forum is going on, another forum is taking place that promotes housing assistance to African Americans. Additional forums during the conference address the very same things that these people want to take away from American Indians: education, health care, economic development, and so forth. Such things should rightfully be addressed for any ethnic group, but to do so while attempting to deny the same programs to the American Indian is hypocrisy at the fullest.
One of the purposes of these conference forums is to identify and establish future legislative actions. As a result, we can perhaps expect to see an increase in the slash and cut Trojan horse amendments in support of the termination bill directed at the Cherokee Nation.
So, what does all of this have to do with turning Tribes and Indians against each other do allow for an easier victory by anti-Indian forces?
Historically, both the Colonial governments and the U.S. government took advantage of intertribal animosities to weaken any resistance to expansion.
The termination program of today takes advantage of the problems between the Cherokee Nation and the UKB. It appears that the UKB is siding with the termination forces, which is amazing in itself because the UKB is much more restrictive in it’s enrollment requirements than the Cherokee Nation is - requiring a ¼ or more blood quantum. With this in mind, how the UKB can insist that the Cherokee Nation allow people with no documented Cherokee ancestry to be members is beyond comprehension. There is also a very small group, centralized around one family with dual UKB and Cherokee Nation citizenship, that has taken advantage of the situation with the ultimate goal of seizing control of whatever is left of the Nation after it has been effectively destroyed. Normally, entering into or commenting on internal Tribal politics is none of my business - and I abhor to do so. But, what the UKB and this group are doing has a great adverse affect on Tribes and Indians everywhere - including my own family and the families of my friends.
By holding the American Indian hostage unless the Senate version of H.R. 2786 contains the same damaging amendments to the Cherokee Nation, pressure and intimidation is placed on other Tribes and individual Indians to turn away from the Nation’s sovereignty rights and end any support that they might have had for the Nation. Unless the Tribes and individuals resist this intimidation and stand with the Cherokee Nation on this sovereignty issue, they participate in their own ultimate destruction just as the Tribes of yesteryear did.
Many of today’s leaders in Washington D.C., and the general public, hold the same basic misleading historical and stereotypical assumptions about Tribes and American Indians that was held hundreds of years ago. The general perception of American Indians as primitive savages unable to govern themselves still prevails, along with the right of the government to intrude into Tribal affairs and extend it’s regulatory powers for the “good of the Indian“.
Just as with the colonists and “pioneers” of the past, today’s opinions of Tribes and American Indians are based on misunderstanding and misconceptions (besides pure greed for land). The current situation is fueled by misleading and biased media reports, which inaccurately portray the American Indian, particularly members of the Cherokee Nation, as racists. Just as the “pioneers” of the past justified the killing of Indians because of the common perception of their lower status as humans, one activist friend of mine has questioned how long will it be before innocent Indians are attacked in the streets because of the prevailing and similar perception presented by the anti-Indian members of the House?
In closing, I would like to pass on my appreciation to the few opinion authors and bloggers who have seen through the layers of ignorance and deceit in H.R. 2824 and have tried to explain reality to the public. The question remains, will the public listen?
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Old 09-23-2007, 01:22 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Are you sure you're not talking about the Siouan language similarities and not the Sioux Nation?


JD-You know, I really don't know--honestly. I just know that a woman once came up to me and was telling me that she was a member of the Saponi nation and I said that I had never heard of them (which I hadn't at that time) and she was talking so fast that that might have been what she said and I misunderstood. I have only heard of them a few times, but there are so many others too that I don't know much about. So if I was offensive to anyone, that I am sorry about. I'm just wondering and I don't have my list right in front of me to check.

I do know alot of people of the Sioux Nation and they don't talk about that Tribe much. I've heard a few things, but it's always been in passing.
Google 'Haliwa Saponi'. Make sure you check out the 'Haliwa Saponi Pottery' link. Senora and her husband, Dalton, are some of the nicest people in the world. She beaded my son's 2nd pair of mocs when he danced Tiny Tots.lol

Make sure you check out her pottery. It's beautiful.
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:04 PM   #290
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Thanks JD--I will check it out and see what's what.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:04 AM   #291
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I have a personal belief, that some may find offensive, some may not..

If you were to look at "minority groups" in the US, why are Native Americans such an after thought to "mainstream society"?
If you were to take the blacks for example, or the hispanics, why are they so much more recoginized?
One reason and one reason only cohesiveness. They united and put forward a common front. This is something our peoples have never been able to do, and honestly still can not do today.
We are such a diverse and seperated group, that anytime there has been an attempt to unite the Native American Peoples together to work for political or social change, it has been undermined and discredited by our own folks.
There is such an apathey and distrust between the tribes, and even between the clans and familys within our own tribes, that it is easy for the federal goverment and society to discount us and ignore us.
This is at the core of the article KK posted...
the inability of our peoples to band together as a political voice large enough to be heard and recognized by the media, goverment, the courts and John Q public.
The old saying is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" , well the oppisite of that is true as well, the silent child goes hungry......

Until we, as a people, overcome our own prejudices against each other and unite as a unbreakable force, we are never going to be able to truely fight against the goverment and others who are still pursuing assimilation and indoctrination as a way of causing our extermination.........
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:19 AM   #292
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Thanks for your comments KSC they are so very true!
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:38 AM   #293
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Lightbulb Uh oh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSComanche View Post
1. We are such a diverse and seperated group, that anytime there has been an attempt to unite the Native American Peoples together to work for political or social change, it has been undermined and discredited by our own folks.

2. There is such an apathey and distrust between the tribes, and even between the clans and familys within our own tribes, that it is easy for the federal goverment and society to discount us and ignore us.
Well said. (Damn.)

"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:21 AM   #294
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Don't you think that part of the issue with other minorities is automatic acceptance? I mean, if someone tells you their Hispanic, do you question it? Ask how much? I don't. And skin color doesn't even play into it, because there are Hispanic peoples that do have red hair, yellow hair, curly hair, freckles, lighter skin - look at folks in Spain, for example.

But in the Indian world, we know that's not true. Say you're Indian, and you don't "look the part," BAM! instant wannabe or at least some degree of suspicion.

That mindset will always keep us from being unified, especially when large portions of the Indian population lie within the bounds of tribes with no BQ enrollment critera, i.e., Cherokee...
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:00 PM   #295
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That mindset will always keep us from being unified, especially when large portions of the Indian population lie within the bounds of tribes with no BQ enrollment critera, i.e., Cherokee...
Which is yet another reason why quantum should be made obsolete: to KILL that mindset.

Beyond its face value merit of legislating Indians out of existence within generations, it is a divisive factor among us as a vetting practice.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:13 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by NorthofAda View Post
But in the Indian world, we know that's not true. Say you're Indian, and you don't "look the part," BAM! instant wannabe or at least some degree of suspicion.
well I have witness when you say your ndn and what tribe, then the questions are on, we look for that connection, see if we know anybody in their families and vise versa, comparing notes..."do you know this person in your tribe".....when new age stuff is brought into the convo then you have to ask yourself if this person is registered and not connected to the tribe or they are just saying that just to belong....my opinion of course....
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Old 09-26-2007, 09:49 AM   #297
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OK, I just scared myself, if me and Zeke agree about something.........

The "automatic acceptance" isn't really a part of the issue. My step-daughters are 2/4 Hispanic, both blonds with blue eyes, and they run into prejudice and suspicion from the Hispanic community,called "wanna-be's and all the things we hear from NDNs about part bloods and non-enrolled folks, so I believe that aspect of the problem is universal.
Where we have to change is the lack of interest in what happens in the " other peoples backyard", in other words, we need to care about what happens to the Cherokee or Sioux or Utes even if we are Navajo or Comanche...or whatever.
We need to recognize that we can no longer look at ourselves solely by our tribal identity and see ourselves as Native American first, and ( insert tribe here) second.
When that finally happens, we will, as a people, be able to present a united front on the political and social level.
Honestly, this is not a new idea, many of our great leaders historically have tried to do this in one way or another, but none ever succeeded in overcoming the inter-tribal prejudices and suspicions.
We need to put aside our own history in a sense, in terms of political animosity and join together for the common cause, and until we do , we are a doomed race politically and that will eventually mean literally.
Just my humble opinion.....

Now , the bright side is that with the advent of the Internet, global communications and such, the distance between our peoples is shrinking along with the rest of the world.
Education is improving, and we are not as divided by time and distance as we once were.
The people in Oklahoma and Texas now communicate with the peoples in the Dakotas and California, and as this continues, the differences I say are problems shrink.
Sites and discussions such as this one bring us closer together all the time, so it is possible that we will eventually be able to join together as one voice.
The question now is one of timing. Will we be able to do so before it is too late???

Last edited by KSComanche; 09-26-2007 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:20 AM   #298
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Well back to the issue at Hand , that of the Cherokee and HR 2786, I wrote my house rep, Nancy Boyda, and asked that she vote against this bill as amended and this is the response I received back:


September 25, 2007



Dear Mr. Reynolds,

Thank you for expressing your concerns about recent actions by the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma to deny tribal membership to descendents of former black slaves. Hearing from my constituents allows me to know what issues are important to you.

On Thursday, September 6, 2007, the House of Representatives reauthorized several programs that provide housing assistance to Native Americans and authorized $624 million annually for the Indian Housing Block Grants. H.R. 2786, the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Reauthorization Act of 2007, passed the House by a vote of 333 to 75.


As part of H.R. 2786 an amendment offered by Representative Melvin Watt (D-NC) was adopted that would deny the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma funding unless it recognized descendants of black slaves as citizens of the tribe. As you know, the tribe recently voted to revoke the citizenship of descendents of former slaves who cannot also prove Cherokee ancestry. Another amendment offered by Representative Dan Boren (D-OK) was accepted that would give the tribe access to the funds while the current court case on the issue works it way through the courts. If the courts recognize the citizenship of the former slaves the tribe could access the funds. If the courts do not, the tribe would not be able to access the funds. Once the Senate votes on their version of this bill, these conflicting amendments and other issues that are of importance to you will have to be resolved.

.

In addition to these amendments, an amendment to create a grant program for infrastructure needs such as wiring and plumbing was accepted as part of the bill.

Thank you for contacting my office on this important piece of legislation. I hope you will continue to keep in touch on this



Sincerely,

Nancy Boyda
Member of Congress
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:22 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiowakat View Post
http://www.census.gov/pubinfo/www/FRN02.pdf


DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Bureau of Indian Affairs
Indian Entities Recognized and Eligible
To Receive Services From the United
States Bureau of Indian Affairs

Santa Ysabel Band of Diegueno Mission
Indians of the Santa Ysabel
Reservation, California

Santee Sioux Tribe of the Santee
Reservation of Nebraska
Sauk-Suiattle Indian Tribe of
Washington

Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa
Indians of Michigan

Scotts Valley Band of Pomo Indians of
California

no Saponi listed?
There is a Haliwa-Saponi tribe that is listed as State Recognized in North Carolina...

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Old 09-26-2007, 12:57 PM   #300
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Thanks NOA--I looked at it and it's really nice. That's the one that the woman that I had met said that she was from. I have a friend who is from SD and he took his family drum to their pow wow and he talked very highly of it at that time. My uncle had mentioned that there was (in his words) "a Souix tribe" in NC that he knew about. But I am confused by one thing here. It lists Arnold Richardson. I knew Arnold Richardson a few years back and he always announced that he was part of the 6 Nations (specifically Mohawk--that stuck with me for many reasons), or so I thought. I haven't seen him in about 4 years and have often wondered what had happened to him.
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