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Old 06-27-2007, 03:02 PM   #21
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This document is sponsored by the Office of the Federal Register, National Archives and Records Administration

http://indianz.com/News/2005/008383.asp

its all government BIA is a branch of the Government.


well if you notice on the first page of this thread most of the groups have been trying for along time since the 80's and they still haven't become anything but they have 501c3 which allows them access to grants that are meant for the American Indian and these groups have large memberships, telling people one day we will be a tribe. so live off from the consumer taxes and collect donations, get more from the membership fee's. why would they push forward since the letter of intent is in. This should be a wake up call for the hard working consumer if anything.
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outershell View Post
forgive me for not understanding...
are they petitioning the US govt or BIA? who actually decides who's a recognized tribe and who isn't?
what are the chances that they would be recognized?
The US Govt and the BIA are the one and the same

The Full title of the BIA is:
Department of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs
The BIA is a part of the US Government charged with overseeing Indian Affairs including Granting Recognition to Tribes that petition them such as what this "so-tribe" is trying to do. They also do this:
"The Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) responsibility is the administration and management of 55.7 million acres of land held in trust by the United States for American Indians, Indian tribes, and Alaska Natives. There are 561 federal recognized tribal governments in the United States. Developing forestlands, leasing assets on these lands, directing agricultural programs, protecting water and land rights, developing and maintaining infrastructure and economic development are all part of the agency's responsibility. In addition, the Bureau of Indian Affairs provides education services to approximately 48,000 Indian students."

The BIA has been doing this for the past 150 or so years
So when you hear people say BIA it is actually an official agency of the US Government made of thousands of people spread out across the United States.

Reminds me of an 49 song!!!
BIA I aint your NDN anymore
you belong to white man hey ya hey
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Reminds me of an 49 song!!!
BIA I aint your NDN anymore
you belong to white man hey ya hey
Sing it Josiah LMAO LuLuLu!!....
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:40 PM   #24
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http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/MANDATES/INDEX.HTM
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:06 PM   #25
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Hey K sqaured, Props to you on the Mag Article (well deserved)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiowakat View Post
and that's bad that these fake wannabe groups, almost gives all non natives that are trying to help the American Indian a bad rep lol....my personal opinion.
I just wanted to add this also compounds the problem for legitimated Decendents who are unable to enroll. Most of us have accepted our positions. There are some that try to get recognition regardless of the original tribes stance. The question I have is how can any group obtain recog. if the tribe they are claiming still exists. Should it not be done throught the original tribe. It brings all complexion challenged people into the controversy.
I know why I cannot be enrolled, I accept that. To not do so it an insult to my ancestors. Our fathers,grandfathers, etc. made the desicions they made. The best they could with the climate of the times. If an indian chose to leave the tribe(for whatever reason), that was his/her choice. Who are we as decendents, to try and change that.

Of course this may not be relevent in this case. I assume they have some blood.
You see my point, If i chose to take my family and move to
Hong Kong. Can my grandchildren move back years later and claim to be american?
It is too late.
Why do you have to go after funding meant or allicated for other natives. These groups aren't disenfranchised, they are not secluded on Reserves starving for economic development?
The Feds don't care enough to differentiate between real tribes and those people pretending. If you file out the paperwork right what do they care.
I've rambled enough
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:44 PM   #26
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these missouri so called tribes are filing letters of intent and thats it, they tell their members its in the process (a usual response) after years of not taking another step, these members don't know what the steps are, so they keep giving over money to these groups, in hopes that they become a tribe someday, notice the dates that they filed letter of intent.
again when the Osage moverd out 1800's, there are no Federal or State recongnized Tribes here in Missouri, besides the shawnee that have land here with casino, but their head quarters are in Oklahoma. so my question is why are they even getting to be a tribe in the first place....western Cherokke of Missouir and Arkansas, stole history from the original Keetowah band of Oklahoma and using it for their own. pffft also notice they popped up just in time for casinos...lol

REGISTER OF INCOMPLETE PETITIONS - 77 pursuant to 25 CFR 83.10(d)
(as of February 3, 2006)

191 Western Cherokee NAtion of Arkansas and Missouri, AR (5/1/98 partial doc'n rec'd 5/1/98,6/22/05,9/20/05,12/30/05,1/5/06, awaiting TA ltr)


Research and findings brought to by American Indian Heritage Support Center
http://home.aihsc.info/index.html

Filing a Letter of Intent (FOI) is the first step to petition for federal recognition. This is nothing more than a simple letter stating you'd like to apply. Then the Branch of Acknowledgment and Research (BAR) in the BIA will send your group a "petition packet" containing information and sample forms to guide the research which your group will need to undertake.

You can view a copy of the regulations for USC 25 CFR 83 @
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...5cfr83_05.html


REGISTER OF LETTERS OF INTENT TO PETITION - 138 pursuant to 25 CFR 83.10(d)
(as of February 3, 2006)
100- Northern Cherokee Tribe of Indians, MO (7/26/85)
100a- Sac River and White River Bands of the Chickamauga Cherokee Inidan Nation of AR & MO (9/5/91)
100b- Northern Cherokee Nation of Old Louisiana Territory, MO (2/19/92)
155- Amonsoquath Tribe of Cherokee, MO (2/17/95)
192- Cherokee Nation West of MO & AR (formerly Cherokee Nation West - Southern Band of the Eastern Cherokee Inidans of Missouri and Arkansas) MO 5/11/98
217-Ozark Mountain Cherokee Tribe of Arkansas and Missouri, MO (10/19/99)
220- Saponi Nation of Missouri, MO (12/14/99)
247- Western Cherokee of Arkansas/Louisiana Territories, MO (4/21/01)

Prepared by:
Office of Federal Acknowledgment
Assistant Secretary - Indian Affairs
you gotta feel sorry for people like the cherokee. they have just been so well documented that all a person has to do is read a couple books and become an instant expert. the saponi of missouri was a good chuckle too
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:41 PM   #27
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Hey K sqaured, Props to you on the Mag Article (well deserved)
Aho! Lostsalt (blush)
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FluteMaker View Post
you gotta feel sorry for people like the Cherokee. they have just been so well documented that all a person has to do is read a couple books and become an instant expert. the saponi of Missouri was a good chuckle too
I don't feel sorry for us Cherokee...
I am quite proud that my ancestors decided to enroll and say hell yes I am Cherokee!
So I can trace my ancestor long past the Dawes rolls and the Miller Guinon Rolls and all the others, All my kinfolk have stood up and said Hell Yes I am Cherokee!!!

It just been these past 40 or 50 years that these groups started springing up and especially in the past 10 years when the Casino money has come into play.
They for the most part have no Legitimate claim to anything except as an sideshow.

We as a tribe on the surface seem to be well documented you can certainley Google the word Cherokee and page after page shows up.
I just checked and was astounded that 36,400,000 entries showed up!

Accurately? I say not
Most quote and misquote James Mooney that lived among us for a short time during the late 1800's then headed back east to write his books
For the most part there are plenty of so-called experts that no nothing of us!!!

Sigh some day this too will fade
Actually we have the show Danial Boone to blame for this!!
It was a show back in the 50's they actually used several Cherokee actors that could still speak the language
And blamo a whole generation infuated all those things that are Cherokee
You see them every day of the week
They come to Tahlequah or Cherokee NC
They come into the tribal office and they say
My great great great grandmother was part Cherokee
How can i find out
They are handed a packet
and sent on there way
You can even go on the website and it says the same thing

And maybe someday they will be saying this
My great great grandfather was Kiowa!!!
can you help me find out!!

j/k kk!
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:23 PM   #29
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
I don't feel sorry for us Cherokee...
I am quite proud that my ancestors decided to enroll and say hell yes I am Cherokee!
So I can trace my ancestor long past the Dawes rolls and the Miller Guinon Rolls and all the others, All my kinfolk have stood up and said Hell Yes I am Cherokee!!!

It just been these past 40 or 50 years that these groups started springing up and especially in the past 10 years when the Casino money has come into play.
They for the most part have no Legitimate claim to anything except as an sideshow.

We as a tribe on the surface seem to be well documented you can certainley Google the word Cherokee and page after page shows up.
I just checked and was astounded that 36,400,000 entries showed up!

Accurately? I say not
Most quote and misquote James Mooney that lived among us for a short time during the late 1800's then headed back east to write his books
For the most part there are plenty of so-called experts that no nothing of us!!!

Sigh some day this too will fade
Actually we have the show Danial Boone to blame for this!!
It was a show back in the 50's they actually used several Cherokee actors that could still speak the language
And blamo a whole generation infuated all those things that are Cherokee
You see them every day of the week
They come to Tahlequah or Cherokee NC
They come into the tribal office and they say
My great great great grandmother was part Cherokee
How can i find out
They are handed a packet
and sent on there way
You can even go on the website and it says the same thing

And maybe someday they will be saying this
My great great grandfather was Kiowa!!!
can you help me find out!!

j/k kk!
LMAO hey now settle down there, hoss, you crack me up, they probably will be saying that in the future, I say that now days but still have documentation (family history, not card) to back it up...some were just better at keeping records, I guess. hats off to our Tribe!!

I'm hearing more and more non natives claiming to be Choctaw and women that are "Lakota Medicine woman, sacred Pipe Carriers". Do you know how many "sacred pipes" are out there?.... hahaha...
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:21 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsalt View Post
Hey K sqaured, Props to you on the Mag Article (well deserved)




I just wanted to add this also compounds the problem for legitimated Decendents who are unable to enroll. Most of us have accepted our positions. There are some that try to get recognition regardless of the original tribes stance. The question I have is how can any group obtain recog. if the tribe they are claiming still exists. Should it not be done throught the original tribe. It brings all complexion challenged people into the controversy.
I know why I cannot be enrolled, I accept that. To not do so it an insult to my ancestors. Our fathers,grandfathers, etc. made the desicions they made. The best they could with the climate of the times. If an indian chose to leave the tribe(for whatever reason), that was his/her choice. Who are we as decendents, to try and change that.

Of course this may not be relevent in this case. I assume they have some blood.
You see my point, If i chose to take my family and move to
Hong Kong. Can my grandchildren move back years later and claim to be american?
It is too late.
Why do you have to go after funding meant or allicated for other natives. These groups aren't disenfranchised, they are not secluded on Reserves starving for economic development?
The Feds don't care enough to differentiate between real tribes and those people pretending. If you file out the paperwork right what do they care.
I've rambled enough
Good questions Lostsalt, I'm still wondering this myself, how can these groups become tribes?? even when a Tribe don't allow these groups of people on their roles, they go home (example Missouri) and say, "well I'll just make my own tribe", they go get a 501c3, go file a letter of intent, go get some members to support the cause (most members are blind to the facts), apply for grants, sit back and live happily even after on tax payers money, I as a tax payer, feel that my money could go for better things....again personal opinion.....so as I see it these groups are not only exposing us, they are conning the consumer with fraudulent claims...hmmmmm
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsalt View Post
I just wanted to add this also compounds the problem for legitimated Decendents who are unable to enroll.
LS, this is the thing that bothers me the most about groups like this..
I can not be enrolled due to decisions my father made.. fine, I accept that, and have no problem with it. But when I moved to Oklahoma, i met a certain amount of prejudice from indian folks who had a " your only intersted in being enrolled for __________ reason" attitude, and it took time for folks to realize I was only intersted in being me and nothign else before they would even talk to me, even teh ones whose parents knew my family and my Dad personally and so "knew " who i was..


Its groups lilke these we are discussing that cause those prejudices and attitudes amongst our peoples. It makes many folks feel that ANYONE who says " my grand father was native, or my mother was native" are just trying to get benifits of some sort or the other, and makes it difficult for those of us who are part blood or did not grow up around our peoples and our cultures to learn about our history and our ancestory.
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:05 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by KSComanche View Post
Its groups lilke these we are discussing that cause those prejudices and attitudes amongst our peoples. It makes many folks feel that ANYONE who says " my grand father was native, or my mother was native" are just trying to get benifits of some sort or the other, and makes it difficult for those of us who are part blood or did not grow up around our peoples and our cultures to learn about our history and our ancestory.
this is exactly true, thank you, I wonder why most of the American Indians don't stand up to big groups like this?, I realize there are more important issues, but if this one is over looked, then the outcome is not going to be good..... to many hands in the cookie jar......lol
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:35 AM   #34
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LS, this is the thing that bothers me the most about groups like this..
I can not be enrolled due to decisions my father made.. fine, I accept that, and have no problem with it. But when I moved to Oklahoma, i met a certain amount of prejudice from indian folks who had a " your only intersted in being enrolled for __________ reason" attitude, and it took time for folks to realize I was only intersted in being me and nothign else before they would even talk to me, even teh ones whose parents knew my family and my Dad personally and so "knew " who i was...


Its groups lilke these we are discussing that cause those prejudices and attitudes amongst our peoples. It makes many folks feel that ANYONE who says " my grand father was native, or my mother was native" are just trying to get benifits of some sort or the other, and makes it difficult for those of us who are part blood or did not grow up around our peoples and our cultures to learn about our history and our ancestory.
Point well made. I hope that folks are astute enough, though, to recognize a mixed blood sincerely seeking out their heritage versus someone whose trying to cash in on being of NDN descent.
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:17 PM   #35
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I have a CDIB and enrolled with my tribe when I was very young but...
I have the other problem I am from the wrong tribe
LOL
I get the look when I first meet somebody
You know the look
Oh really your Cherokee ehhh
Sure you are
Well long ago I decided not to worry about it
And just be who I am

But groups like these harm all of us
I stress US!
All NDN's
Most dont see it that way

They take from our culture what they consider important and discard the rest
And in an area that does not have any tribes they seem to be the norm
And pretty soon everybody thinks they are the normal NDN's
Again this harms US

I was thinking of a group that is a good example of what I am talking about

I will not name them but here we go

This group lived a few states away and went back to Oklahoma to ask permission to form a "dance group" one of the orginal members was of the tribe they ask permission of. They were given permission and for several years everything was ok
But over time the group was filled with people that only knew a little of what they were shown and the original members slowly moved away or passed away untill finally the members that remained had no real knowledge of what they were doing
This was painfully obvious when they came back each year to dance with the MAIN Group
Until finally they stopped coming altogether
BUT... They still dance and People in that area still think they know what they are doing and as new members come in they believe they are seeing the "Real Deal"

So the moral of the story is that distance from the main group you will have diversity
This is true in language and customs
Unless you stay in touch with the main group this will happen

I have ramble enough

But from what I see these so called fringe NDN clubs and Groups are actually harming our culture and eventually they will be who people turn to as experts in our culture and that will be a sad day!!!
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:42 PM   #36
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That will be a sad day, Josiah...

I still continue to wonder why when there is a pseudo-NDN group, or someone stretching to claim NDN heritage they are nearly always Cherokee. In fact, even on this site folks joke about the "great-grandmother who was a Cherokee princess." To me, that seems a slight to those who are genuinely Cherokee by blood, enrolled or otherwise. My great-grandmother was Cherokee, but did not live in Indian Territory during the Dawes era and did not enroll. I am enrolled Chickasaw through her husband, my great-grandfather. I have hesitated to mention my Cherokee ancestry on occasions because as a mixed blood one does tend to get that raised eyebrow look when you say "Cherokee" and that, too, is sad...
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:27 PM   #37
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Opinion Please

I just got an email and was wondering what you guys think? remember no federal or state recongized tribes or tribal offices in Missouri


my question to you is,can native americans do mass adoptions of ilegal immigrants.the reason is because there are people here where i live charging money for filing an adoption form.i want to know if that is legal,or if you know any tribe that is doing these.please write back i would appreciate it.

carthage missouri

this started a while back, they gave the people who applied which are thousands an adoption certificate and an id.last week they started going to the social security building to apply for a ss#. that is why i wonder if its legit or not?

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Old 07-10-2007, 06:10 AM   #38
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While what I think may be interesting... what the law says is what applies:

You can be a tribal member of a recognized tribe AND still not be a lawful permanent resident.

Under the USCIS implementing regulations at 8 CFR 289.2 (Lawful admission for permanent residence) - whether an individual is a member of a recognized Indian tribe is not relevant to whether the individual holds a satisfactory immigration status as a qualified alien.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:56 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by between2worlds View Post
While what I think may be interesting... what the law says is what applies:

You can be a tribal member of a recognized tribe AND still not be a lawful permanent resident.

Under the USCIS implementing regulations at 8 CFR 289.2 (Lawful admission for permanent residence) - whether an individual is a member of a recognized Indian tribe is not relevant to whether the individual holds a satisfactory immigration status as a qualified alien.
even if it isn't a legit tribe or group? thanks BTW!!
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:03 AM   #40
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its a tribe in oklahoma and its called kahola? this is what this person is telling me but I never heard of this tribe lol so if its in missouri in that area, it would have to be the western cherokee of missouri and arkansas that are giving out their fake tribal cards, or the griggs groups. anybody know of Kahola?
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