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Old 08-20-2007, 06:55 PM   #81
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Another group in Missouri ...you decide lol

outside of Springfield Missouri......

http://www.geocities.com/sherian1951/AboutRichard.html

pics here:
Adoption1

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Richard J. Craker
501 Farm Road 2030
Monette, MO. 65708
1-417-235-5082
[email protected]

Richard Craker was born in July, 1940, to a native Ozark family from Arkansas and Missouri. He grew up west of Monette, Mo., near where he built the log cabin home where he lives and paints.

Richard’s Cherokee name is Noksi Galagina, which means “Star Buck” in English, was given to him by a mentor and elder, Mr. Elmer Casteel, in the early seventies. Richard is
( a Non-Federal Status) Arkansea-Quapaw/Chickamauga-Cherokee, who is recognized as an “Elder” by the Chickamauga Tribe of Missouri and Arkansas. He is equally proud of his Welsh-Irish/German-American Heritage. Richard has danced in many Indian Pow Wows, and Ceremonies in the Eastern Oklahoma, Southwestern Missouri, and Northwestern Arkansas region.

Richard is an artist who depicts many subjects in several mediums, though he prefers acrylic on canvas. His subjects are largely American Indian Portraits of the late 1700’s and early 1800’s of the Southeastern United States and contemporary Indian dancers. Richard also likes to do occasional seascapes.

Richard is a graduate of Southwest Missouri State University of Springfield, Mo. where he doubled in fine arts major, with an emphasis in Print Making: intaglios, mezzotint, etchings, and stone-lithograph. He taught Art classes in the Ozark’s for a few years, but realized he could earn a better wage in industrial welding. During these years he often drew portraits of co-workers which sold more often than not at company lunch hours. During this time he continued to paint and took several commissions though work, acquaintances, and even received one for a mural in a corporate office. He feels his experience in teaching and using his art talent in industry forced his works to mature. He gives credit to both his wife and daughter who are also artistically talented and regularly critique his paintings at all stages. He was born with heart, spine, and breathing problems. Several surgeries saved his life. Even so, he worked 34 years until a heart attack and increasing degeneration of his upper spine forced his retirement from the labor force.

Richard has had fifty-seven drawings drawings published in books about Indian religion and history and in Pow Wow program booklets. He has developed illustrated teaching flash cards on Cherokee language and drawn illustrations for a children’s book on Pow Wow camping with a Cherokee vocabulary. He was commissioned to do drawings of village life featuring Native American medicinal herbs for an ongoing traveling exhibit.

He has been involved in twenty-five art exhibits and been shown in twelve different galleries. He is pleased to have had several one man shows and been included in Indian art shows like the Tulsa Indian Art Festival, the Trail of Tears Exhibit in Tahlequah, the Five Civilized Tribes Art Market-Art Under the Oaks, Muskogee, all in Oklahoma, the Lawrence (Kansas) Indian Art Market, and the Red Cloud Indian Art Show (Pine Ridge, So. Dakota).

Though he has received a number of blue ribbons and other awards, none has meant
more to him than an honorable mention ribbon and cash prize from the Trail of Tears show and a purchase by the former curator of the Philbrook Art Institue, Robert Johnson.

Richard Craker has his paintings and art prints in his home just six miles S.W. of Monett, Mo. His experience has shown that he can more easily show and sell to a select audience interested in American Indians of the areas of the Five Civilized Tribes

He now has six Limited Edition art prints of interest to Indian art collectors for sale at reasonable prices, as well as a number of orginal acrylic paintings of various subjects. Prices and photographs of recent works may be obtained by serious patrons, collectors, galleries and art establishments by phone or mail.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:18 PM   #82
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the name of the above groups is:

SAC RIVER & WHITE RIVER BANDS OF CHICKAMAUGA CHEROKEE INDIAN NATION OF ARK. & MO.

http://www.geocities.com/sherian1951/index.html
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:00 PM   #83
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the above group is splinter group off of Chief Beverly Baker Northrup....

Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory

Northern Cherokee Nation Old Louisiana Territory

all have the same fabricated history....
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:25 AM   #84
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There are so many of these so called "Cherokee Tribes" popping up all over the place. We have some here and they, sometimes, approach me until they find out that I am connected to Cherokee, NC--then they go away. I have had some of the strangest conversations with some people and cut them real short. There is one group here that was set up at a pow wow a month ago where I was and they wouldn't come near me. One guy did and he kept asking alot of questions, that was fairly nice, because he seemed to really be interested in what was real, not the hype. But alot of them ask more about things like the color of the four directions, not about the history or any of the people. That confuses me, I don't know anything about the colors. But if you ask me about the people or how they live, I can tell you alot. I don't live in Cherokee, but I go there several times a year and stay with my Uncle right there on the Rez.

I know who my family is and was and some of the Elders are helping me find some more of them.

I had a woman once come up to me and start saying that she was a member of the Secret Cherokee's of (so and so) (I've heard of about 4-6 of these "secret Cherokee") and she was telling me that her 10 g-grandfather was the "Chief" of the Cherokee's of Oklahoma back in the 1400's. I about fell over and said very nicely "Excuse me? I'm not sure who you are talking about." She proceeded to tell me who it was and I flipped. I knew this name and I know many of his actual decendents in Cherokee, NC personally. I nicely spoke with her and she quietly walked away. I went to Cherokee a month later and ran into the family and I was talking with them and telling them about the conversation, they laughed.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:50 AM   #85
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I talk to my Uncle and other family members several times a week and before I go to a pow wow and when I get back. And sometimes I will call him or he will call me when I'm there to see how things are going. He's a good man.

I am seeing things and I think that I have some things figured out, but not everything. What I'm seeing is fairly simple, but goes totally unnoticed. Indian people stick to gether fairly much, you do have your fights--but that happens in every family and way of life. It is even noticed when someone has a native background, yet, not necessarily enough quantium for enrollement, many people accept them for what they are and who they are. I've seen this many times, it's about honor and the way in which one carries themselves. Now, when an Indian person marries a non-native (someone who totally admits that they have no native blood at all) this spouse is totally accepted as a part of the Tribe or family unquestionably (in the cases that I have seen). What I am seeing in many many cases is that these spouses are so excited and honored to be accepted as a part of the Indian community that when they are out in public they will talk to anyone about anything and they (sometimes) get a little carried away and talk about things that (maybe) they shouldn't such as: Ceramonies that they've been to or other things that they have had shared with them and things along these lines. I have seen this personally many many times and it's blown me away. So then the person that the spouse had talked to takes this little info and adds to it, then you know what---they are out there running ceramonies and giving names of people that they have never spoken to. Then you have the "I read a book" syndrome or the "I got it off the internet". That drives me crazy. I had a man sit right in my living room telling me about women things and said that he knows that it's accuate because he got it off the internet. I went off on him and he's never been back. I go to my family if I have questions and ask them. If they don't know they send me to someone who will know.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:46 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
There are so many of these so called "Cherokee Tribes" popping up all over the place. We have some here and they, sometimes, approach me until they find out that I am connected to Cherokee, NC--then they go away. I have had some of the strangest conversations with some people and cut them real short. There is one group here that was set up at a pow wow a month ago where I was and they wouldn't come near me. One guy did and he kept asking alot of questions, that was fairly nice, because he seemed to really be interested in what was real, not the hype. But alot of them ask more about things like the color of the four directions, not about the history or any of the people. That confuses me, I don't know anything about the colors. But if you ask me about the people or how they live, I can tell you alot. I don't live in Cherokee, but I go there several times a year and stay with my Uncle right there on the Rez.

I know who my family is and was and some of the Elders are helping me find some more of them.

I had a woman once come up to me and start saying that she was a member of the Secret Cherokee's of (so and so) (I've heard of about 4-6 of these "secret Cherokee") and she was telling me that her 10 g-grandfather was the "Chief" of the Cherokee's of Oklahoma back in the 1400's. I about fell over and said very nicely "Excuse me? I'm not sure who you are talking about." She proceeded to tell me who it was and I flipped. I knew this name and I know many of his actual descendent's in Cherokee, NC personally. I nicely spoke with her and she quietly walked away. I went to Cherokee a month later and ran into the family and I was talking with them and telling them about the conversation, they laughed.
I lived for time in Georgia in 2005 and 2006 and attended a few powwows in the region up to North Carolina
I was approached by more chiefs of more Cherokee tribes that I thought possible! I would just tell them I am already enrolled and have been since birth along with my Father and Grandfather and Grandmother and Great Grandfathers and Great Grandmothers all the wayyyyyy back...
And yet these men were very firmly entrenched in what they felt was the truth, That there were such a history as they believed it.

I guess that is why the people that don't know any better fall for these people and give there money to them!
As far as I am concerned they are no better than con-men selling a so-called service that is nothing and will get you nothing.

And yet there they are going from powwow to powwow telling there lies and having the un-informed and ignorant believing them and handing them money for memberships and donations

Knowledge is Power
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:27 AM   #87
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I talk to my Uncle and other family members several times a week and before I go to a pow wow and when I get back. And sometimes I will call him or he will call me when I'm there to see how things are going. He's a good man.

I am seeing things and I think that I have some things figured out, but not everything. What I'm seeing is fairly simple, but goes totally unnoticed. Indian people stick to gether fairly much, you do have your fights--but that happens in every family and way of life. It is even noticed when someone has a native background, yet, not necessarily enough quantium for enrollement, many people accept them for what they are and who they are. I've seen this many times, it's about honor and the way in which one carries themselves. Now, when an Indian person marries a non-native (someone who totally admits that they have no native blood at all) this spouse is totally accepted as a part of the Tribe or family unquestionably (in the cases that I have seen). What I am seeing in many many cases is that these spouses are so excited and honored to be accepted as a part of the Indian community that when they are out in public they will talk to anyone about anything and they (sometimes) get a little carried away and talk about things that (maybe) they shouldn't such as: Ceramonies that they've been to or other things that they have had shared with them and things along these lines. I have seen this personally many many times and it's blown me away. So then the person that the spouse had talked to takes this little info and adds to it, then you know what---they are out there running ceramonies and giving names of people that they have never spoken to. Then you have the "I read a book" syndrome or the "I got it off the internet". That drives me crazy. I had a man sit right in my living room telling me about women things and said that he knows that it's accuate because he got it off the internet. I went off on him and he's never been back. I go to my family if I have questions and ask them. If they don't know they send me to someone who will know.
This is an important lesson for all "newbies" out there to learn!

If you're trying to learn about your people and your traditions because you weren't raised that way, and you have folks that are kind enough to teach you the right way, you should honor them and your ancestors by protecting that teaching - not sharing it with every Tom, Dick and Harry.

I'm still in that learning phase and have met people in my tribe's homeland and online who have kindly shared information about my people's traditions (Chickasaw), and I don't share that stuff with other people, other than my daughters whom I am teaching. There are many tribal-specific ceremonies, stories and traditions that aren't meant to be shared with just anyone, not just because those folks might turn around and "sell" that information or use it for other personal gain, but because they are sacred to the people from whom they come. Some stories aren't just even tribe specific, but family specific, like some creation stories.

Josiah is right about knowledge being power. It is important to learn correctly, from the right people, but be very careful who you share that information with....
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:51 AM   #88
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I agree with both of you. Knowledge is power, very much so and have told my children that all their lives. And you don't share certain infomation with just everyone you meet. If they are to know what's what that will come from the right people, not me---I have too much more to learn. I am no teacher by any means.

Josiah, I don't know why they gave you such a hard time. Maybe, it's because they are so close to where all the Cherokee once lived that they think that they know more. Here we are a little farther away and maybe that's it. I really don't know. But, at the pow wow that I was at a month ago there were more then 3 Cherokee "Chief's" and I about fell over. I met one of them last year and said (very nicely) "Oh, you are in one of those groups?" I was nice about it, but very firm as to what and who they were. He didn't come back near me the rest of that pow wow.

My relatives tell me that if I know that something is incorrect, then to speak up about it. Otherwise, just let those idiots do what they want. That's their words to me.

So many people seem to be looking for "Free money"---there's no such thing. I took a woman in Cherokee to the Indian health services one day and what I found was disappointing. She got right into the doctor's office (surprise one), she was only there for 15 min. (surprise two), then it took us over an hour and a half to get all the meds that he had perscribed for her and we had to go to three different places and most of her meds were addicting. I am not judgeing anyone there, but the way that it was done just really blew my mind. But that's what happens when there is very little to help so many and most people don't see it this way. They just hear stories and say "Oh it's free!" Nothing is totally free without some kind of cost.
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:04 PM   #89
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That's the whole problem Johsiah, they do believe what they are saying. I have heard people say the wildest things and swear that it was true. It blew my mind and when I try to tell them, they get all upset. Oh well, the trueth is the trueth.

They are con men, there is no other way to put it. I get calls all the time from friends of mine who are enrolled through other tribes who meet someone who tells them about this so called Cherokee tribe that they are involved with or thinking about getting involved with and asked all kinds of questions. Many times I have to call my Uncle to ask if what I'm being told is possible, most of the time it's not. When I get back to my friends and tell them, the flip. There are many of these groups that claim to be of other tribes as well (we have found out about some of them), but more seem to claim Cherokee then any other one group.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:35 PM   #90
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This is an important lesson for all "newbies" out there to learn!

If you're trying to learn about your people and your traditions because you weren't raised that way, and you have folks that are kind enough to teach you the right way, you should honor them and your ancestors by protecting that teaching - not sharing it with every Tom, Dick and Harry.

I'm still in that learning phase and have met people in my tribe's homeland and online who have kindly shared information about my people's traditions (Chickasaw), and I don't share that stuff with other people, other than my daughters whom I am teaching. There are many tribal-specific ceremonies, stories and traditions that aren't meant to be shared with just anyone, not just because those folks might turn around and "sell" that information or use it for other personal gain, but because they are sacred to the people from whom they come. Some stories aren't just even tribe specific, but family specific, like some creation stories.

Josiah is right about knowledge being power. It is important to learn correctly, from the right people, but be very careful who you share that information with....
another thing my parents taught me...remain teachable!!...I'll always be learning..........
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:20 PM   #91
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That's what my family tells me Kat. There are so many people saying "I'm looking for a teacher" or "I'm going for teachings" well my family says that you can learn from anyone that you talk to as long as you listen as well. They say that you can learn from the youngest of the children or the oldest of the Elders and anyone inbetween. Just watch what it is that you learn and from whom.

My reply to some of those people listed above is this: "How can you not learn something when you visit an Elder if you sit and listen to them?" That's the key is to listen as well as anything else and many do not hear what is actually being said or they are not paying attention.

We were at my Uncles one time and someone brought up a person and said "he is not a good teacher." My answer was this: "Actually, yes he is. He is a very good teacher------On what NOT to do." So many people don't look for that or at that and that is just as important to see as anything else.
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:39 PM   #92
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Indianz.Com Message Board - Cherokee Medicine question

enter at your own risk!!...these people are ruthless HAHAHA..
read to the middle of the page when Alchesay calls my name..hehehe
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:51 PM   #93
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I agree with both of you. Knowledge is power, very much so and have told my children that all their lives. And you don't share certain infomation with just everyone you meet. If they are to know what's what that will come from the right people, not me---I have too much more to learn. I am no teacher by any means.

Josiah, I don't know why they gave you such a hard time. Maybe, it's because they are so close to where all the Cherokee once lived that they think that they know more. Here we are a little farther away and maybe that's it. I really don't know. But, at the pow wow that I was at a month ago there were more then 3 Cherokee "Chief's" and I about fell over. I met one of them last year and said (very nicely) "Oh, you are in one of those groups?" I was nice about it, but very firm as to what and who they were. He didn't come back near me the rest of that pow wow.

My relatives tell me that if I know that something is incorrect, then to speak up about it. Otherwise, just let those idiots do what they want. That's their words to me.

So many people seem to be looking for "Free money"---there's no such thing. I took a woman in Cherokee to the Indian health services one day and what I found was disappointing. She got right into the doctor's office (surprise one), she was only there for 15 min. (surprise two), then it took us over an hour and a half to get all the meds that he had perscribed for her and we had to go to three different places and most of her meds were addicting. I am not judgeing anyone there, but the way that it was done just really blew my mind. But that's what happens when there is very little to help so many and most people don't see it this way. They just hear stories and say "Oh it's free!" Nothing is totally free without some kind of cost.
I think it was because if they can get a "Brown Indian" in there group it makes them legit!!! So it made them recruit harder, I thought it was kinda funny actually at the time! I had never heard of any of these groups and was not aware they existed
During this period I had just moved in from Washington state where I had lived for 20 years.
So it took me by surprise, when I left Oklahoma I only knew of 3 groups and all of those were Federally Recognized.

But now that I live back in Oklahoma and have done some researching and talking with folks around here I was astounded to discover over 200 groups that claim they are Cherokees, probably close to 500,000 people!!!
I went Holy Crap!!!

In reality only about 76,000 live in Oklahoma and that is CNO's and UKB's
And about 2500 in North Carolina of the Eastern Band
The rest are well....
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Last edited by Josiah; 08-22-2007 at 04:55 PM..
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:27 PM   #94
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WOW, that was something. You did say "Enter at your own Risk". I almost swallowed what's left of my teeth.

That was crazy. I almost made a phone call to see what's what with that story. My uncle has had discussion's with me about that medicine, but that is certainly not for the internet at all, that is a very private thing and should be respected. This type of thing is a one on one and not for everything or everyone. See that's exactly what I've been talking about. There are people who read things like this and think that it would be "cool" to do and they go out saying that they have all this knowledge and medicine powers and brag about something that is not a braggerts right at all.

I do have a question about something that you had mentioned, but that's (again) not for here. So I will send you an email if that's okay?
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:38 PM   #95
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Josiah, wow---they must have been kissing up to you something fierce. You got your backside polished good.LOL

And I think that you are right about having a brown skin Indian in their group. I am fairly light skinned myself. I am light for Cherokee (depends on who I am visiting at the time) and OK, but for where I live---I am dark skinned. Many say that I look Italian, but there is none there and I have looked.

Actually I think that the number who live in Cherokee, NC is lower then you state. I believe (according to my uncle) that there are around 14,000 tribally enrolled members with about 11,000 living there on the rez. I think that the rest of that number may be the non-natives who visit for the summer or live there and work. I'm really not sure of all of that, but that is what I was told by my uncle.
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Old 08-23-2007, 10:51 PM   #96
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Thumbs up Group sued in connection with selling fake citizenship documents

Group sued in connection with selling fake citizenship documents

Andres R. Martinez
August 21, 2007 - 6:29PM
EDINBURG — The Texas attorney general sued an Edinburg pastor and two others in connection with a company that promised people U.S. citizenship if they bought a fake tribal citizenship certificate for $400.

“We have not seen a case like this, so brazen,” said Tom Kelley, a spokesman for the attorney general.

The civil lawsuit alleges that Edinburg pastor Victor Ramirez worked as a representative of Kaweah Indian Nation Inc., a company based out of Wichita, Kan. Ramirez charged legal residents and immigrants in the Rio Grande Valley up to $400 as a representative of the Grand Chief Thunderbird IV, also known as Malcolm Webber of Kansas, according to the suit

Webber and Ralph Tipton of San Antonio were also sued. They promised those who bought the certificates automatic U.S. citizen-ship, according to the suit. The scam was based on a law that grants U.S. citizenship to members of federally recognized tribes. The Kaweah group was denied official recognition as a tribe by the federal Bureau of Indian Affairs in 1984.

Ramirez could not be contacted late Tuesday.

The investigation began after the Texas Civil Rights Project forwarded complaints about the company to the attorney general’s office about two months ago, Kelley said. It was unclear how many people were defrauded, Kelley said.

According to a letter on the Project’s Web site, there have been reports that Kaweah sold certificates in Georgia and California and that it charged as much as $1,400.

The attorney general’s office is investigating whether any other pastors or intermediaries sold the certificates knowing they could not grant anyone U.S. citizenship, let alone tribal citizenship.

The suit was filed in the 370th state District Court in Hidalgo County. Kelley said the first step in the case would be asking the judge to issue a temporary restraining order preventing Ramirez, two co-defendants and Kaweah from selling the certificates.

The organization may have sold the fake tribal certificate in other states, Kelley said. A U.S. attorney in Kansas is investigating the group, according to The Associated Press.

It was unclear if any other states or the federal government were investigating the group or its members.

A judge could fine the members of the group up to $20,000 for each certificate sold.

———
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Old 08-23-2007, 11:08 PM   #97
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Good!!!! I'm glad that they got caught. They shouldn't have done it and then they wouldn't be in this mess. I hope that they can get the others that are out there as well. I know of people who tell me that they have gone through some organization and gotten "Tribal Cards" stating that they were member's of this Tribe or that one and I just shake my head. Then these people go out and tell people that they are members of these Tribes and they actually get believed. It blows my mind. It should be the right way or no way. It's just the way that I feel about it.
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:18 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
Good!!!! I'm glad that they got caught. They shouldn't have done it and then they wouldn't be in this mess. I hope that they can get the others that are out there as well. I know of people who tell me that they have gone through some organization and gotten "Tribal Cards" stating that they were member's of this Tribe or that one and I just shake my head. Then these people go out and tell people that they are members of these Tribes and they actually get believed. It blows my mind. It should be the right way or no way. It's just the way that I feel about it.
I heard that!!...These kind of wannabe groups are not excluded from responsibility and accountability!! hehehe
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:35 AM   #99
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Maybe off-topic here, but what is it with "Indian names" and why do wannabes want one so badly?
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:26 PM   #100
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Northofada--I think that they believe that it will make them more authentic. Kind of like being adopted. Some of these people really blow my mind with some of this stuff and at how far that they will take it. I was at a pow wow once and there was this "adoption" ceramony that went off. There was this big give away and all of that and the next thing that you know, these people who were "adopted" were going around tellig people that they are a member of this Tribe. I was sitting with a good friend of mine and we both about fell over. To us all that that did was make them a member of that persons "family", not the whole Tribe. I am accepted by many people of many different Tribes for who I am, I don't need to be "adopted" to make me look like something more then what I am. My family, ancestors and the creator (himself) know who I am and that's what matters. That person wanted to adopt me as well and I told them "no thank you." They were telling all kinds of people that what they were going to do was "adopt" them and then the next year they were going to take them back to their res. and get them all enrolled by the tribe. I knew that that was garbage, and it didn't happen. But for a while that person got everything that they wanted handed to them by others and didn't have to buy a thing for themselves.

This is just my opinion from what I've seen.
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